Google Sketchup Imaginings

[jsoto3]

I have some very serious ideas for potential redevelopment of the blocks surrounding Deep Ellum Station (special interest given that I live in Live Oak Lofts), but here is a ridiculous tower I came up with just messing around for fun:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5969/dd3fp6.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2391/dd2se8.jpg
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/1208/dd1sx2.jpg
http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/5749/dd4cf3.jpg


I'll probably be posting other "imaginings" and some serious proposals here in the future. Anyone else feel free to do the same . . . .

[br.reese]

looks good

[NThomas]

Nice. I know this isn't real but without the out cry of the surrounding neighborhood, is there a height restriction because of Love Field?

But that building would be really cool. Imagine if that was a golden Trump hotel...that would completely change the skyline

[jsoto3]

I don't know about any Love Field related restrictions, but the zoning for this site (and several of the other surrounding blocks) allows "any legal height", only limited by a 20:1 Floor Area Ratio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floor_area_ratio). That's partially why I think this area has so much long-term potential.

[CTroyMathis]

Looks cool Jorge. Thanks for posting it up.

I often mess around in Sketchup with ideas in that same general location, McK Ave., Preston Ctr., and The Cedars. Sometimes fairly serious, but, more often just for fun and not much effort put into fitting things into it's proper scale within the urban environment. I more often find myself doing cartography (rail) these days, though, whenever I actually have time.

Perhaps anyone else who has the means and time could post up some serious or just plain fun sketchups/renders of how they would like to see things. (e.g. Our own idea vault like the ULI Cedars urban design idea competition. . .) Pick anywhere in the region if you so choose. Perhaps just do a simple building or two. Or a whole swath of redevelopment. Drawing perfection is not a prerequisite either. I usually just yank something off the Sketchup Warehouse since it's easier, less time-consuming which is essential for me, and I'm often just working on putting things in place for massing/scale. Not nec. always about the design itself. Other times I just insert blobs of white boxes somewhat to scale and figure I'd just explain the basic vision in text later. . .

[gc]

very nice....keep'em coming

[tamtagon]

I have some very serious ideas for potential redevelopment of the blocks surrounding Deep Ellum Station (special interest given that I live in Live Oak Lofts), but here is a ridiculous tower I came up with just messing around for fun:

Didnt you do something like this for the Peak-Haskell Corridor, too?

[NThomas]

Just acouple things I played around with adding mostly "real" buildings into Victory Park and a few we'd all like to see. and some others including the Sears Tower at the corner of N. Field St. & Woodall Rodgers. Also at the corner of Commerce and Industrial Burj Dubai's would be "twin tower" (some 8k miles away)
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4299/28628431fj9.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=28628431fj9.jpg)
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6056/42603645yf6.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=42603645yf6.jpg)

[cowboyeagle05]

If only height was the answer but its ok to dream of the time when height was the rule.

[sir-montag]

Impressive and interesting - love to see more :D

[jsoto3]

As much as I like the modern design of the William B. Travis Elementary School on McKinney in Uptown (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=travis+elementary+school+dallas&ie=UTF8&ll=32.801578,-96.801562&spn=0.00257,0.007703&t=h&z=18), I can't help but imagine the site being redeveloped, given it's huge potential due to its unique shape and location, particularly for a "flat iron" type tower.

Here, I visualize what the Kollhoff Tower (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kollhoff-Tower) from Berlin's Potsdamer Platz mixed-use development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdamer_Platz) would look like on this great site in Uptown Dallas:

(Sketchup model found on Google's 3D Warehouse)
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8650/uptownkollhoffsouthdz4.jpg

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6335/uptownkollhoffnorthti3.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7254/uptownkollhoffstreetqs8.jpg

[cowboyeagle05]

I think the same thing every time I see a Y type intersection. At the entrance to Downtown Garland there is a intersection that could also get similar treatment although most likely not as tall. I like the project you've shown there though. Whats the most disheartening about that school is at the smallest part of the triangle facing the Y intersection it is a fenced grass lawn that is not maintained really at all nor used by the school for anything. I wish the School District and the city would work together to open up that small piece of land for some kind of small pedestrian plaza which would help promote better pedestrian traffic flow in that busy intersection.

[Lakewooder]

I hope the neighborhood associations are not looking here! :eek:

Fitzhugh just east of Central - divides into Bennett is another one of those intersections. I've heard Post is looking at it...

[NThomas]

Nice eye. I think that would be a great addition to McKinney Ave.

[NThomas]

Just playing around in SketchUp and ended up making an updated version of Pacific Plaza. After taking it into Google Earth, I kept looking for good vantage points for the screenshots below & discovered most of them had Fountain Plaza blocking it or vise versia. Probably best that it wasn't built. Only because it's next to Foundation Plaza and would have to "fight" for attention. but I still love the design of the tower but if it were to be built today it could be in a different location...

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9434/pacificplaza1qx0.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9468/pacificplaza2vm4.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7194/pacificplaza3vn0.jpg

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8814/pacificplaza4jo9.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2628/pacificplaza5nv3.jpg

Prime alt location: NWC S Lamar St & Young St. This would fill a huge void in the skyline. Enough space for an attached parking garage on the same block. The views are unhindered by other towers and you'll have clear line of sights to Uptown, Victory Park, West End, The Ceders & The Trinity Park. :cool:
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4324/thomastowerlm4.jpg

[NThomas]

After reading that the Atmos Complex is going to only have 233 units if redeveloped, I went ahead and day dreamed about the real potential for that block while still preserving the Lone Star Gas Company Building and the Dallas Gas Company Building in the Harwood Street Historic District. I modified a new condo building in Toronto and adapted it to fit DTD. Unfortunately, I don't know where to find the FAR for properties in DTD, so this is just a fantasy...

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/820/atmosmainharwoodgaragev.png

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/1360/atmoscityhallview.png

Any comments? Ideas?

[jsoto3]

Unfortunately, I don't know where to find the FAR for properties in DTD, so this is just a fantasy...
Downtown is zoned CA-1 which has an FAR of 20.

To find the zoning for any parcel in the city, go to the map on City Hall's website and use the "query a point" tool to select a parcel (parcel layer must be turned on) and the parcel's info will show up in a sidebar on the right. Click the "view zoning descriptions" link for the following linked zoning summary chart that lists allowable FAR, heights, setbacks, etc.):
http://maps.dallascityhall.com/legend/zonechart.pdf


See attached:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/860/cityhallmapwithparcelin.th.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cityhallmapwithparcelin.jpg)

[NThomas]

Downtown is zoned CA-1 which has an FAR of 20.

To find the zoning for any parcel in the city, go to the map on City Hall's website and use the "query a point" tool to select a parcel (parcel layer must be turned on) and the parcel's info will show up in a sidebar on the right. Click the "view zoning descriptions" link for the following linked zoning summary chart that lists allowable FAR, heights, setbacks, etc.):
http://maps.dallascityhall.com/legend/zonechart.pdf


See attached:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/860/cityhallmapwithparcelin.th.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cityhallmapwithparcelin.jpg)

My new online bible. Thanks!!!

[NThomas]

I've really gotten interested in Vancouver's architecture and thought about what it would look like transplanted in Dallas along a finished Trinity River Park. DFWUF, I present the: Trinity River Urban Center (TRUCk). Just like Vancouver, the majority of the buildings floor count would fall in the mid-upper thirties. While Dallas has freeways leading every wich way out of DTD, DT Vancouver doesn't have a controlled access highway until you travel almost 4 miles west! In addition to strict zoning laws DT, there is also "urban boundary" that has, IMO, done a good job of controlling sprawl. I think Dallas can incorporated the best of both worlds and we're already seeing that with the growth of Frisco and Uptown Dallas. Until we see the end of cheap land or an urban boundary (both will never happen here in North Texas), this is just a dream but it's always fun to do just that. I estimated there are ~5,500 units in the entire "project" and if every unit averages 1.75 people, this would be more then double the population of the DTLoop today. That'd also be the ballpark number of units in which Victory Park's master plan to the City of Dallas presented. After spending HOURS just messing around finding add fitting buildings in here like puzzle pieces, VP would have to nix Two Victory Park as office and build out the remained of land only as residential (over overpriced retail) to reach that goal. But enjoy!

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7933/trinityriverurbancenterq.jpg

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/946/trinityriverurbancenterb.jpg
^From Industrial (Trinity Lakes) Blvd. In front of the county courts and jail complex.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4616/trinityriverurbancenterx.jpg
^Looking down from the 72nd floor of BoA.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9730/trinityriverurbancenter.jpg
^View from Reunion Tower.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4274/trinityriverurbancenterp.jpg
^From Trinity Overlook beside Commerce St Bridge

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9730/trinityriverurbancenter.jpg
^From the Hyatt Regency's ~15th floor.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9730/trinityriverurbancenter.jpg
^Driver's view on I-35E northbound in the mixmaster.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9730/trinityriverurbancenter.jpg
^View from Dealey Plaza.

2,360

[jsoto3]

Good job dreaming. I envisioned high-density mixed-use development for this exact area in my master's architecture/urban design thesis, but not at quite as high density. Any development in this area will need to have its own critical mass of housing/retail density and an amazing streetscape in order to be successful, niether of which are easy to achieve in this location in any economy. The TRC Lakes/Park alone are not going to be a sufficient raison d'etre for this type of project.

Can you post a site plan view from above?

[gchrisbailey]

^
I wonder if something similar to that would work where the soon-to-be-demolished Reunion Arena currently sits?

Something needs to be envisioned for that site... :(

[NThomas]

Good job dreaming. I envisioned high-density mixed-use development for this exact area in my master's architecture/urban design thesis, but not at quite as high density. Any development in this area will need to have its own critical mass of housing/retail density and an amazing streetscape in order to be successful, niether of which are easy to achieve in this location in any economy. The TRC Lakes/Park alone are not going to be a sufficient raison d'etre for this type of project.

Can you post a site plan view from above?
I'll do ya one better. Here's the Google SketchUp file but I have to warn you, out of the almost 30 buildings, I only planned about 1/2 of the site and the others were just placed when I thought they looked good and fit in well with the others.

Trinity River Urban Center.skp (http://www9.zippyshare.com/d/25626378gk/1248225137/25626378.skp)


I wonder if something similar to that would work where the soon-to-be-demolished Reunion Arena currently sits?

Something needs to be envisioned for that site... :(
If people think Victory Park is disconnected from Uptown, the Reunion site (including the Hyatt & Reunion Tower) is ten times worse. There's only 2 ways in and 2 ways out. IMO, the reunion site will be on of the last redeveloped in DTD because it's cut off by the interstates and rail lines.

[jsoto3]

I'll do ya one better. Here's the Google SketchUp file:
Trinity River Urban Center.skp (http://www9.zippyshare.com/d/25626378gk/1248225137/25626378.skp)
Thanks, but the link doesn't seem to work. It redirects to the zippyshare homepage.

[NThomas]

Thanks, but the link doesn't seem to work. It redirects to the zippyshare homepage.
Second times a charm: http://www.mediafire.com/file/4mnjmtmtzlj/Trinity River Urban Center.skp

[RuggerAl]

don't know if i'd want to live near the jail? the urban boundary could work, but it can also stifle growth and activity, because you would begin artificially increasing the land value in the city area. Also you would need to institute this plan across the state, becuase as you land values and rent goes up in Dallas, people and companies would look at their other options Austin, San Antonio, Houston, Fort Worth, Denton and others. I say denton because if it is important to the area then they can still be in the area and have cheap rent.
It all comes down to what is affordable, you want to live within your means where you have some money left over so do companies.

[jsoto3]

I liked gchrisbailey's suggestion that the Reunion Arena site (currently being demolished) should be redeveloped with the proposed ballpark currently planned to be built in the Cedar's West (see post #446 in this thread (http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=6330)), so I did some Sketchup "imaginings" of a ballpark with mixed-use redevelopment of the adjacent surface parking lots:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6586/reunionballparkviewfrom.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfrom.jpg) http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4253/reunionballparkviewfromr.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfromr.jpg) http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2394/reunionballparkviewfromy.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfromy.jpg) http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6586/reunionballparkviewfrom.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfrom.jpg) http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6499/reunionballparkviewfromo.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfromo.jpg)

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6586/reunionballparkviewfrom.th.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfrom.jpg) http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6586/reunionballparkviewfrom.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfrom.jpg) http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6586/reunionballparkviewfrom.th.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfrom.jpg) http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2817/reunionballparkviewfromz.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfromz.jpg) http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6586/reunionballparkviewfrom.th.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfrom.jpg)

View from Bank of America Tower:
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6499/reunionballparkviewfromo.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfromo.jpg)

View from Reunion Tower:
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6586/reunionballparkviewfrom.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reunionballparkviewfrom.jpg)

[gchrisbailey]

^Damn...we should be city planners...I like that even more than I thought I would!

[jsoto3]

The focus of my graduate architectural education was urban design, so I have some penchant for these things. Sometimes I wish I became a professional urban designer rather than an architect, but I'm probably where I belong.

I think this is a much better location for a minor league ballpark than the currently proposed Cedar's West location:

1. Better connection to downtown.
2. Great mass transit access.
3. Massive unused parking garage already there (between the viaducts).

Great idea you had there!

[NThomas]

The focus of my graduate architectural education was urban design, so I have some penchant for these things. Sometimes I wish I became a professional urban designer rather than an architect, but I'm probably where I belong.

I think this is a much better location for a minor league ballpark than the currently proposed Cedar's West location:

1. Better connection to downtown.
2. Great mass transit access.
3. Massive unused parking garage already there (between the viaducts).

Great idea you had there!
First off: :drool: Great job!

I think that's a great site for a sports facility... I'll kinda be disappointed if the cedars ballpark follows through cause then this couldn't happen.

[dmorg12345]

Nice! I would love to see what the view of the skyline would look like from homeplate. I love the Pitsburgh Pirates ballpark where they have a view of a nice bridge out the back of the outfield.

Also, if I were building a minor league ballpark I would design it to where it could be easily expanded to meet the needs of a major league team. They build on to college football stadiums all the time.

[tamtagon]

Also, if I were building a minor league ballpark I would design it to where it could be easily expanded to meet the needs of a major league team.

Totally! At some point, there's gotta be a National League team in Dallas and the stadium needs to be close to the convention center. I don't have a hard time imagining or believing the feasibility of a minor league stadium built on the Reunion Arena site with expansion plans drawn up and ready to go which incorporates ~50,000 seats, retractile roof and an elevated promenade connecting the Convention Center, the CC Hotel, Reunion Tower & Hotel, Union Station and the Trinity River Park Overlook.

[NThomas]

There's been alot of talk about wanting the parking lot across from the new Arts by Jefferson apartments developed. So I figured I'd give it a shot in SketchUp.

The biggest thing for this version to happen would be closing San Jacinto east of Routh St and west of Routh two ways. That'd also involve reworking the Central/Ross intersection but there could be a nice opportunity for a neighborhood gateway coming into DTD from Bryan Place.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6266/dart1.png
Existing

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3763/dart2z.png
Future. The red line is DART's ROW and the shaded purple area is where my sketchup 4 story residential over retail building would be using the existing land and acquired land from the former San Jacinto ROW.

Here it is with a "placeholder" building similar in size to The Arts across the street.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2266/dart3.png
In the shadow of the Dallas Skyline


http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9248/dart4.png
The DART ROW


http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4348/dart5.png
Beneath One Arts

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3695/dart6.png
Looking down Ross towards Bryan Place.

[darkblood]

If people think Victory Park is disconnected from Uptown, the Reunion site (including the Hyatt & Reunion Tower) is ten times worse. There's only 2 ways in and 2 ways out. IMO, the reunion site will be on of the last redeveloped in DTD because it's cut off by the interstates and rail lines.

They could build a large multi-use building on the Reunion Arena site. There could be a large pedestrian bridge stretching across the railroad tracks & I-35, as well as a tunnel to go to Union Station and Reunion Tower. Since we're dreaming big let's put some large buildings on the other side of I-35 & the tracks for the pedestrian bridges to connect to.

[NThomas]

They could build a large multi-use building on the Reunion Arena site. There could be a large pedestrian bridge stretching across the railroad tracks & I-35, as well as a tunnel to go to Union Station and Reunion Tower. Since we're dreaming big let's put some large buildings on the other side of I-35 & the tracks for the pedestrian bridges to connect to.
Like an arena?

[tamtagon]

If the Trinity River Park Overlook and Gateway is ever built, that will finally prompt the Hunts to construct a seamless cityscape incorporating Union Station, the Hyatt Hotel, Reunion Tower, the Reunion Arena property into the park. After the CC Hotel has been open for a couple years, the next expansion of the Convention Center will need to be direct and pleasant access to the Trinity River Park Overlook and Gateway....

[tamtagon]

Like an arena?

Maybe one of the Hunts will make a billion dollar down payment toward a league changing legacy and bring a major league baseball team to that spot, complimenting the legacy Lamar Hunt gave to football.

[NThomas]

Maybe one of the Hunts will make a billion dollar down payment toward a league changing legacy and bring a major league baseball team to that spot, complimenting the legacy Lamar Hunt gave to football.
There's a Six Flags in DT Denver (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Six+Flags+Elitch+Gardens,+Denver,+Colorado+80204&sll=39.748312,-105.005908&sspn=0.017059,0.038581&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FcWGXgIdX6K9-Q&split=0&hq=&hnear=Six+Flags+Elitch+Gardens,+Denver,+Colorado+8 0204&ll=39.745903,-105.001316&spn=0.017059,0.038581&t=h&z=15) on a site similar to the Reunion site. It's bordered by RR on one side, it narrows to a point on the south end, a Blvd on another, and the river.

If the original Six Flags wasn't just down the road (I doubt we'd see two parks, but), it would be interesting to see a similar sized amusement park (connected to the DCC) on the reunion site.

[NThomas]

I forgot about an old SketchUpI made of a to scale DT Fort Worth's Omni Hotel and what if would have looked like in DT Dallas. I put it in on the Lamar, Young, Griffin, Ceremonial block thinking that was the best site being next to Pioneer Park. That location would help encompass the three (DCC, DCCH, and Pioneer Park) into one interconnected area instead of a stand alone park, 9-5 M-F office building and CC. Then when the city bought the tract next to it, I kinda forgot about this site.

It may not be the prettiest thing to look at, but it is to scale.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8095/dcchn4.jpg

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1639/dcchn3.jpg

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7504/dcchn2.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8095/dcchn4.jpg

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/762/dcchn1.jpg

[jovangonzales]

^ Too bad it's going to be a fatter, shorter version of that. Or will it be that height!? Either way, I like what your sketchup's height does for that side of DT.

[NThomas]

The empty block between The Ritz Complex and 1999 McKinney has been one of my favorite site to play with in SketchUp and until late last night, I've never found a building or group of buildings that would "fit in" with the rest of LoMac. The buildings are from NYC and, their leasing websites claim they have over 800 units between the three buildings. At 100% occupancy, with an average of 1.5 people per unit (from 1 bedroom ranging to 3 bedroom) "this project" would increase LoMac's population by 1200 people.

The three buildings are on the borders of the block while in the middle, a "park" keeps the complex connected from the inside (similar to the one these buildings surround in real life, in NYC). With 800 units, the project has a 1000 car garage underground with entries on Harood and Olive. Ceder Springs would become a two way street from Olive to Field with signaled lights at the Olive and Harwood intersections. Cedar Springs and McKinney Ave would both be "free" from loading docks and garage entries to keep emphasis on MATA and a modern line running on Cedar Spings.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9084/rtiziii7.png

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/316/rtiziii1.png

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6326/rtiziii5.png

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4600/rtiziii11.png

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2388/rtiziii10.png

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7741/rtiziii9.png

[NThomas]

With The Joule Hotel expanding, I thought I'd take a crack at filling in the parking lot near the hotel on Commerce. After looking for a building in 3D Warehouse that would fit, Barclay Tower (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=fd6ec47476f0fdf4acbc083043c4991&prevstart=0) seemed to fall in like a puzzle piece. Imagine at the base a porte-cochere like driveway on the western side of the base, with the entrance to the lobby tied into Main Street Alley for direct access from Main Street and Commerce.

Height comparison:
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9742/dtd.png (http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?cityID=92)

Site plan:
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8148/61992890.png

View from City Hall Plaza:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2687/72417090.png

View from Main Street Garden:
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4863/28716849.png

View from American Airlines Center south balcony:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/682/94922595.png

View from Westin City Center (Plaza of the Americas):
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5069/96616854.png

View from Reunion Tower:
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2481/34185763.png

[dfwcre8tive]

I like it; it fits in pretty well.

[skys the limit]

http://a.imageshack.us/img196/6317/griffinsquarehotelimage.png (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/griffinsquarehotelimage.png/)

http://a.imageshack.us/img228/6317/griffinsquarehotelimage.png (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/griffinsquarehotelimage.png/)

http://a.imageshack.us/img842/6317/griffinsquarehotelimage.png (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/griffinsquarehotelimage.png/)

http://a.imageshack.us/img191/6317/griffinsquarehotelimage.png (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/griffinsquarehotelimage.png/)

http://a.imageshack.us/img265/6317/griffinsquarehotelimage.png (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/griffinsquarehotelimage.png/)

http://a.imageshack.us/img200/6317/griffinsquarehotelimage.png (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/griffinsquarehotelimage.png/)

http://a.imageshack.us/img708/3681/griffinsquarehotelimagez.png (http://img708.imageshack.us/i/griffinsquarehotelimagez.png/)

http://a.imageshack.us/img839/6317/griffinsquarehotelimage.png (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/griffinsquarehotelimage.png/)

http://a.imageshack.us/img836/6317/griffinsquarehotelimage.png (http://img836.imageshack.us/i/griffinsquarehotelimage.png/)

[NThomas]

Out of all the buildings that never made it off the boards, Griffin Square is the ONLY one I'm glad was never built. Of course, if it was, maybe there would have been more growth to the south of Commerce St and not only north of Pacific...

[skys the limit]

Out of all the buildings that never made it off the boards, Griffin Square is the ONLY one I'm glad was never built. Of course, if it was, maybe there would have been more growth to the south of Commerce St and not only north of Pacific...

The exercise at overlaying the Griffin Square Hotel design was not for me to promote that particular design per se.

Instead it was to show what dramatic impact a 913 foot tall hotel built at the same convention center site would have had on the skyline versus the short, squat and wide 23 story Omni Hotel.

I'm elated that the Omni Hotel is being built, but I just think for half a billion dollars Dallas missed out on a HUGE opportunity to build something on that site that would have garnered national and international attention and would have elevated Dallas' cityscape to a whole new level. It would have been an instant landmark and success.

Dallas desperately needs another 900+ tall skyscraper Downtown to provide balance to the BofA tower and to give a more true "big city" feel for its core.

In fact, it would be incredible if a supertall of 1250 feet would be built on the eastern side of Downtown, in the general Comerica Bank or Arts District area, to not only balance the BofA tower but for Dallas to gain the title of tallest skyscraper outside NYC and Chicago!

[quietthings]

Does the city really need another tower that size right now? Too much empty space as it is; let's fill what we have first and not add to the surplus.

[skys the limit]

Does the city really need another tower that size right now? Too much empty space as it is; let's fill what we have first and not add to the surplus.

The misperception about empty space Downtown is that ALL buildings Downtown are empty. That is not true. The Class "B" and Class "C" buildings (generally translated means buildings older than from the 1980's) are the ones that have a vacancy issue.

Class "A" buildings, which are all of the newer towers, are generally 100% or near 100% leased. A new tower Downtown would be a Class "A" building and would draw higher end tenants who will not office anywhere else but in a building of that caliber.

The building that I was referring to specifically in my overlays was the convention center hotel. Dallas was going to build that hotel anyway, and it is under construction and coming along. Since Dallas was going to build a half billion dollar hotel on that site, something more dramatic for the cityscape (like the 913 foot tall Griffin Square Hotel design from 1969) if built would have added that dramatic addition.

My last comment about building a 1250 foot supertall was more wishful thinking at this point obviously.

But a half billion dollar convention center hotel in the form of the 23 story Omni has been built on a site where a very tall skyscraper hotel would have been truly eyecatching.

[NThomas]

The exercise at overlaying the Griffin Square Hotel design was not for me to promote that particular design per se.

Instead it was to show what dramatic impact a 913 foot tall hotel built at the same convention center site would have had on the skyline versus the short, squat and wide 23 story Omni Hotel.

I'm elated that the Omni Hotel is being built, but I just think for half a billion dollars Dallas missed out on a HUGE opportunity to build something on that site that would have garnered national and international attention and would have elevated Dallas' cityscape to a whole new level. It would have been an instant landmark and success.

Dallas desperately needs another 900+ tall skyscraper Downtown to provide balance to the BofA tower and to give a more true "big city" feel for its core.

In fact, it would be incredible if a supertall of 1250 feet would be built on the eastern side of Downtown, in the general Comerica Bank or Arts District area, to not only balance the BofA tower but for Dallas to gain the title of tallest skyscraper outside NYC and Chicago!
Take a look at Vancouver's skyline, does it not have a "big city feel" to it? Density, not height, is the key to DTD's future. The old WTC in NYC was built on the Super Block concept and since similar zoning requirements apply in DTD, the entire block where the DCCH is being built now would have had to been a plaza for a 1.2k ft tower. Don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to say the DCCH's site plan looks like it was transplanted from Las Colinas or something built along NCX in Richardson, but I'll take it any day over a 1k ft tower that demands so much open space, a football field could fit inside it.

[skys the limit]

Take a look at Vancouver's skyline, does it not have a "big city feel" to it? Density, not height, is the key to DTD's future. The old WTC in NYC was built on the Super Block concept and since similar zoning requirements apply in DTD, the entire block where the DCCH is being built now would have had to been a plaza for a 1.2k ft tower. Don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to say the DCCH's site plan looks like it was transplanted from Las Colinas or something built along NCX in Richardson, but I'll take it any day over a 1k ft tower that demands so much open space, a football field could fit inside it.

You are certainly correct in stating density as being a prerequisite of a big city being considered "urban" and having a "big city feel" to it.

That is the kind of development Dallas has been doing now for the last five or six years with most of the projects in Uptown, Victory Park, Oak Lawn, Stemmons/Medical Center Corridor, Art District, etc. Those lower height (20-35 story), more dense developments have provided the "footing" necessary for a healthy core going forward.

But without certain signature "skyscraper" elements in the cityscape, it makes it more of a stretch to consider the city being truly of a league that Dallas is in - that being the center of the 4th largest metro in the nation behind NYC, LA, and Chicago. Look at those three cities' skylines and they all have that signature skyscraper look along with density of lower heights as well.

I'm not saying that every development in Downtown or near Downtown should be 900 or 1,000+ foot tall buildings, but another building equal to or greater than BofA would go a long way towards giving Dallas a Downtown that is a bit more exciting in its visual impact.

The other wonderful dense development going on Downtown and near Downtown has been the multi-family developments where they are four, five and six stories tall. That is the kind of population density that is necessary to support other urban elements such as mass transit, urban retail, etc.

And Dallas' foresight to build DART, and now to expand it in a major way Downtown with the second major line being planned, along with adding transportation elements to tie all of the core and near core areas together will work because of the population density that has developed.

Downtown's major skyline buildings have not changed since the mid to late 1980's and personally I think is in desperate need of a major skyscraper addition to balance the cityscape with the BofA tower and to give it a major, new "lift". Just one very tall to supertall building would do it (925 to 1250 feet tall).

The block that the Omni Hotel is being constructed on was more than ample to support a 900+ foot tall building and to provide a major urban greenspace around it. That block is enormous.

But that is now wishful thinking since the "Vegas" style Omni Hotel has spread itself all over that HUGE block of land.

Do not get me wrong as I am truly thankful it has been developed with the density that it has. And the hope that it will attract more major development to that side of Downtown once its energy and economic impact starts being felt there.

[NThomas]

...But without certain signature "skyscraper" elements in the cityscape, it makes it more of a stretch to consider the city being truly of a league that Dallas is in - that being the center of the 4th largest metro in the nation behind NYC, LA, and Chicago. Look at those three cities' skylines and they all have that signature skyscraper look along with density of lower heights as well...

...Do not get me wrong as I am truly thankful it has been developed with the density that it has. And the hope that it will attract more major development to that side of Downtown once its energy and economic impact starts being felt there.
Los Angeles? http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/eek1.gif

Take a look at Dallas' skyline again buddy, there are 100s of cities that would kill for one of Dallas' buildings. Put Fountain Place in any city in the Mid-West, that would instantly be the signature building of the city. Same goes for almost a dozen other skyscrapers in DTD. If I didn't look up at the forum's url, I'd think I was on "CincinnatiMetropolis.com"

No company is going to relocate to Dallas because the new tallest skyscraper opens in Dallas. Over the last decade alone, look at how many companies have relocated to North Texas because of taxes, weather, business friendly politicians, availability of land, cost of living, etc. Those economic factors are what lead to 1k ft buildings, not the other way around. A better catalyst for development in DTD would be improving transportation infrastructure with streetcars, light-rail, and commuter rail or investing in park improvements like the Trinity Corridor, Main Street Garden Park or Woodall Rodgers deck park. It may not be as flashy as the Chicago Spire, or Comcast Center, but it's projects like those that will come because of those infrastructure investments.