Proposed ban of saggy pants

[Bryant]

Do you support Dwayne Caraway's move to ban saggy pants in Dallas?

[tamtagon]

I propose we ban power business suits; after all, the guys who wear them are the ones who steal your retirement. Oh, ya, and ban those loafers, the kind with tassles on 'em. But not penny loafers.

[LH_Newbie]

Is this in the schools? I'm all for uniforms in school. But if this is a general ban on baggy pants in the city - Dwayne must have wandered into one of those pot fields and lit up... that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

[downtownguy25]

If people are trying so hard to look like prisoners why dont we go ahead and make them the real thing?

History of sagging.
http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp

[incrediculous]

If people are trying so hard to look like prisoners why dont we go ahead and make them the real thing?

History of sagging.
http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp

I don't think that link says what you think it does.

[downtownguy25]

I don't think that link says what you think it does.

It says it started in prisons, that is what I was looking for.

[TheCDAllenGroup]

As ridiculous as this proposal is, I hope it gets passed. The majority of the saggy-pants-wearing individuals are young black males - it makes me ashamed to be African American because they play largely to the stereotypical view of black males.

Thank goodness these idiots don't live in my neighborhood.

[LH_Newbie]

Make it legal to give people wedgies if we see underwear. That'll change people's dressing habits! :)

[mikedsjr]

Do they get their pants at Walmart to do this fashion statement or J. Crew?

Is there a specific brand that kids choose for this?

[Mballar]

While agree that youngsters should pull their pants up, I TOTALLY DISAGREE with government trying to mandate it. Besides it being unconstitutional, it just screams "help us,cause we can't control the kids in our community through parenting." AND if that's the case, then I suggest that this energy should be directed elsewhere.

[Highway 6]

As ridiculous as this proposal is, I hope it gets passed. The majority of the saggy-pants-wearing individuals are young black males - it makes me ashamed to be African American because they play largely to the stereotypical view of black males.

Thank goodness these idiots don't live in my neighborhood.

I know people tend to shy away from topics that have even a remote possibility of being interpreted as racial, but here is my two-cents worth.

I think there is an element among African Americans -- maybe those who actively participated in the Civil Rights Movement, and those who most strongly feel its heritage -- that feels a bit betrayed. I sense this element feels that they went through all that blood, sweat and tears so that they could stand with equal dignity and respect on the public platform. But kids walking around in public with their underwear hanging out are neither dignified or respectful. It's more like a slap in the face to their elders. Perhaps, like Bill Cosby, Dwayne Carraway is of that ilk. Comments?

[RobertB]

I know people tend to shy away from topics that have even a remote possibility of being interpreted as racial, but here is my two-cents worth.

I think there is an element among African Americans -- maybe those who actively participated in the Civil Rights Movement, and those who most strongly feel its heritage -- that feels a bit betrayed. I sense this element feels that they went through all that blood, sweat and tears so that they could stand with equal dignity and respect on the public platform. But kids walking around in public with their underwear hanging out are neither dignified or respectful. It's more like a slap in the face to their elders. Perhaps, like Bill Cosby, Dwayne Carraway is of that ilk. Comments?
I think it's a combination of two human traits that trancend race: laziness and greed.

Laziness is embodied in the tendency to take the easiest path to stand out and get respect. What lazier way to get props could there be than to buy stupid-looking clothes?

Greed is embodied by those who actively pursue the creation of such fashion "statements". For example, the rap stars and others who push the thug image as an acceptable societal norm. But it goes beyond them -- and in fact, I would suggest that the rappers promoting stupid behavior are themselves victims of the aforementioned "Laziness". They are being manipulated by the record companies and clothing manufacturers who make the real money.

There's an important point in that last bit. In the end, who benefits from poor black kids doing things that make it difficult or impossible to become part of the larger society? Rich white corporate executives.

Next time you're talking to a kid, and he starts talking about how he's fighting the system by wearing thug clothes and playing thug music, lay this on him: he's not fighting the system. He's a slave to it, bought and paid for. Except that he wasn't kidnapped from another continent -- he walked to the plantation himself.

If you don't think there are still those who think their lack of pigmentation allows them to put themselves above others, just take a look at Jena, Louisiana (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/092007dnmetjenasetup.3645e08.html). Though there's probably not as much racism in the baggy pants issue as simple greed -- after all, I've seen white and Latino boys wear stupid pants, too.

[LH_Newbie]

I know people tend to shy away from topics that have even a remote possibility of being interpreted as racial, but here is my two-cents worth.

I think there is an element among African Americans -- maybe those who actively participated in the Civil Rights Movement, and those who most strongly feel its heritage -- that feels a bit betrayed. I sense this element feels that they went through all that blood, sweat and tears so that they could stand with equal dignity and respect on the public platform. But kids walking around in public with their underwear hanging out are neither dignified or respectful. It's more like a slap in the face to their elders. Perhaps, like Bill Cosby, Dwayne Carraway is of that ilk. Comments?

Blah, blah, blah. Who cares about race. Who cares about what article of clothing. It is NOT the government right - either local or federal - to tell their citizens what to wear. What's next? Are we going to make it illegal to wear head gear? Veils? Yarmulke? Seriously, we cannot go down the control what to wear route. This is an infringement on people's personal rights.

That being said, I think it's silly to wear them. It makes you look like a little punk. There's a stereotype of people that wear them that way, and it isn't good. But we cannot tell people what to wear just because we think it's silly. If people want to look stupid, that's their right to do so in this country.

Brian

[lpepping]

Do they get their pants at Walmart to do this fashion statement or J. Crew?

Is there a specific brand that kids choose for this?

I know some people in the clothing business that sell these oversized clothes. These are "mom and pop" shops. Most of it is imported cheap clothing tailor made for people who like the "thug" look. The smallest size they carry in most shirts is XXL....its crazy but they buy it.

[RobertB]

For what it's worth, the handy-dandy "Similar Threads" box dishes up this jewel: Saggy Pants (http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=6074), 128 posts of banned-member goodness from exactly a year ago.

One of the final posts is from a self-described lurker who should definitely give us more postings like this:

I find it humorous that black members of local government are the most vocal in favor of this ban. They are embarassed by this fashion trend which started in their community. Another poster noted that it was not a racially based fashion, and indeed it has seeped down to all lovers of hip hop and RAP, regardless of race. You cannot conclude that young man is a thug, simply by his "hip hop" attire. Such a ban could never work, unless it addresses actual instances of lewdness as defined by existing statutes.

What Mr. Price and Dr. Thornton-Reese fail to get, though, is that the baggy pants and the disrepect towards others that it symbolizes is only a very small symptom of a much much bigger problem in this country, one which stems from the fact that criminals are now idolized and looked up to as STARS to be emulated. The fashion trend follows from that.

If the kids were only sagging, it would not be a problem. It's much deeper than that. They are failing to adjust to what will be the realities of their lives, because they look up only to violent criminal jackasses like 50 cent and [insert long list of violent criminal "artists" here]. Teachers, any authority figure, and any teen in their class who makes good grades, or, god forbid, likes math or science, are all DISSED , called names by the teen peer group culture of ignorance and violent bravado that now prevails. It is poisoning a generation of kids.

The affected kids' parents are mostly LAMERS. Their dads, with a few notable exceptions, are super lame; most of them are not there in their kids' lives to give them anything to look up to, so they go to the radio and pick a RAP aRtIsT, wit da guns, da blunts...

Right, Dr. Thornton-Reese. Let's blame the pants..

This gets tacit approval all the way up to the highest levels of society. It's making corporate millionaires way too much money to stop it now. Jay Leno verbally kisses Snoop's a##, as he and his crip buddies throw crip gang signs all over the tonight show. Lee Iacoca makes TV commercials with him, for Christ's sake. Media icon/ millionaire Tyra Banks has a big interview with Lil' Kim when she gets out of prison, as if going to prison is a status symbol. That's sick. The sickness is a lot deeper than the clothing, although, as noted, the clothing trend started in prison too.

How are we parents at the grass roots level to tell kids that crime is not the way to go? They laugh at us and go watch millionaires on CBS and ABC wit they pants hangin off, talkin bout they gang affiliations.. And Thornton Reese and Price act as if the PANTS are the problem. Wake up and smell the coffee, guys..

However is is politically incorrect to say anything negative at all about "hip hop culture", so disregard all this..back to lurk mode...apologies if I have inadvertently offended anyone.

blitherington :bounce:

On the other hand, a more frequent poster makes a good point as well:

You know what's even more pathetic than this issue being discussed in city hall? The fact that we're actually discussing it as though it were possible to actually get passed, and spanning 3 whole pages.
:)

[Lakewooder]

Yeah we also need to ban tattoos and body piercings!

[downtownguy25]

What's next? Are we going to make it illegal to wear head gear? Veils? Yarmulke? Seriously, we cannot go down the control what to wear route. This is an infringement on people's personal rights.

By that argument, then we should be able to walk around naked when ever and where ever one wants. Who does the gov think they are to tell me I cant go to school, work or a bar naked.

[RobertB]

By that argument, then we should be able to walk around naked when ever and where ever one wants. Who does the gov think they are to tell me I cant go to school, work or a bar naked.
Many of our friends in Austin (http://www.co.travis.tx.us/tnr/parks/hippie_hollow.asp) would agree with you! (Too bad they're all guys, from what I've heard.)

[LH_Newbie]

By that argument, then we should be able to walk around naked when ever and where ever one wants. Who does the gov think they are to tell me I cant go to school, work or a bar naked.

Requiring people to cover their "privates" isn't quite in the same league as telling them WHAT they CAN'T cover it with. Besides, it's always the ugly people at nude beaches. There's a reason they aren't heavily visited.

:2lol:

It's not illegal to wear your hat during the National Anthem - but people usually do out of respect. Are we going to make it illegal now? I personally think this tromps on personal rights.

[TheCDAllenGroup]

.

I think there is an element among African Americans -- maybe those who actively participated in the Civil Rights Movement, and those who most strongly feel its heritage -- that feels a bit betrayed. I sense this element feels that they went through all that blood, sweat and tears so that they could stand with equal dignity and respect on the public platform. But kids walking around in public with their underwear hanging out are neither dignified or respectful. It's more like a slap in the face to their elders. Perhaps, like Bill Cosby, Dwayne Carraway is of that ilk. Comments?

Yes, I couldn't have said it better myself!

It's the same individuals that play to the sterotypical views of blacks that scream with their sagging pants, unintelligent speech, and 22-inch rimmed cars, that scream "racism" when things don't go their way.

I say "No, you idiot. If you act like a thug, then you'll be treated like one."

As an African American, the masses of these folks make me ashamed to be black or even identified as one.

[sterling]

Many of our friends in Austin (http://www.co.travis.tx.us/tnr/parks/hippie_hollow.asp) would agree with you! (Too bad they're all guys, from what I've heard.)

As a former habitue of Hippie Hollow, I want to assure you that female nudity has always been integral to the nakedness out at the lake. As for banning saggy pants... Once again we focus on hiding the symptoms of the disease rather than doing anything to cure the underlying cause of it. Cosmetics don't FIX anything, they just smooth the visible surface a little.

[freewaytincan]

Thought it said ban of soggy pants. But yeah saggy pants seem pretty bad too, I guess?

[Halz3000]

Lets all trade lowrider pants for a pair of ULTRA FANTASTICAL nothing-to-see-here-specs like Dwayne kicks. I mean, I'm sure he really means this and it's not at all about publicity.
He should totally get his own line of glasses as a guest designer for Billy Jean King.
Freakin' hawt.
Gonna drop my jeans now.

[mike all together]

I don't think people should be able to say things that conflict with my worldview and comfort zones, either. Let's ban that!

[incrediculous]

While we're at it, can we ban wearing flipflops, abercrombie and polo shirts with popped collars?

[LH_Newbie]

Remember in the late eighties - when everyone wore jeans with holes torn in them? Should Dallas have banned that? Oh wait - that would be an infringement on our personal rights. Oh wait - that phase, like ALL fashion statements, worked it's way out of being popular.

For our city officials to waste any time on this is a gross misappropriation of public resources. We should be calling for Mr. Caraway to step back from this stance. It is the parent's responsibility. If the parent isn't controlling their kids - oh well - the government CAN'T. This is just absolutely disgusting that our officials waste their time on such trivial things that will NEVER hold up in court. Lame.

In fact, I am not going to waste another second of my time on this thread. My opinion is clear as day. I'm done.

Brian

[downtownguy25]

Remember in the late eighties - when everyone wore jeans with holes torn in them? Should Dallas have banned that? Oh wait - that would be an infringement on our personal rights. Oh wait - that phase, like ALL fashion statements, worked it's way out of being popular.


Last I checked people still wear jeans with holes in them.

[Spjz]

Lets all trade lowrider pants for a pair of ULTRA FANTASTICAL nothing-to-see-here-specs like Dwayne kicks. I mean, I'm sure he really means this and it's not at all about publicity.
He should totally get his own line of glasses as a guest designer for Billy Jean King.
Freakin' hawt.
Gonna drop my jeans now.

I've seen Tennell Atkins sport some pretty pimpin shades a time or two.

[freewaytincan]

While we're at it, can we ban wearing ... polo shirts with popped collars?

Please make this happen. Un-pop those collars.

[trolleygirl]

Haven't we visited this topic before? Looks like Ron Price has found someone to carry this???

Urbanhope, WTF is up with your man?????

[RobertB]

Please make this happen. Un-pop those collars.
What do you have against vampires, you... you... anti-vampire-ist!

[RobertB]

I wonder if he'll blame Angela Hunt if this gets defeated, too?

Dallas official pulls for law on saggy pants
Proposal stirs debate on freedom and potential strains on police
12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, October 4, 2007
By DAVE LEVINTHAL / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/local/stories/DN-saggypants_04met.ART.North.Edition1.42ba9b6.html

Combating sagging pants exposing skivvies is as important to Dallas as crime reduction and the Trinity River Corridor Project, says Deputy Mayor Pro Tem Dwaine Caraway.

That's why he is vowing to pass an ordinance by year's end against wearing pants in that fashion.
Click the link for the rest of the article, which is long enough to use as suspenders. Choice quote:

Precious Johnson – who tends to pull her toddler's shorts down low because it's "boyish" – said she'd oppose such a ban.

"I don't want to tell people what to do with their lives," she said.
Good night. Anyone got the number for CPS?

[Spjz]

I really liked Dwaine..........until recently. When League of Women Voters published their voters guide questionnaire, Dwaine seemed to indicate that mass transit should be pursued in dealing with the cities mobility. Didn't take him long to change his tune. He used to talk about the Blue line in Oak Cliff being a great place to bring more development, now its the Trinity River Corridor. He used to talk about cleaning up all of the stray animals, hope he still gets around to it. So far his big accomplishments are getting buildings torn down. Oh well.

[trolleygirl]

I really liked Dwaine..........until recently. When League of Women Voters published their voters guide questionnaire, Dwaine seemed to indicate that mass transit should be pursued in dealing with the cities mobility. Didn't take him long to change his tune. He used to talk about the Blue line in Oak Cliff being a great place to bring more development, now its the Trinity River Corridor. He used to talk about cleaning up all of the stray animals, hope he still gets around to it. So far his big accomplishments are getting buildings torn down. Oh well.

And getting hot sheet motels shut down. That is VERY important in our neck 'o the woods, where there's one on practically every corner....

[LH_Newbie]

I still see no reason for Dwaine to waste his and our city council's time on this. If he gets the law passed, someone will get a ticket and challenge it. The courts won't uphold this law. It's a complete waste of time.

[RobertB]

I should ban myself for this, but I just can't resist.

http://icanhascheezburger.wordpress.com/files/2007/10/128344262616875000.jpg (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/10/08/but-mo-om/)

[downtownguy25]

Perhaps we should follow this example.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071008/ap_on_fe_st/odd_israel_dress_code;_ylt=AlF3E30_CCqEcpM8UkPJ6Mz tiBIF

[Highway 6]

I still see no reason for Dwaine to waste his and our city council's time on this. If he gets the law passed, someone will get a ticket and challenge it. The courts won't uphold this law. It's a complete waste of time.

LH, Per your post of Sep 21st, I thought you were going to, um, 'move to the suburbs' on this topic. What changed your mind? By the way, per NPR this morning, Dwaine's efforts have gotten some traction.