Victory: The new downtown?

[xen0blue]

I got lost today in Victory, and I was AMAZED at the amount of constructiong going on down there...literally every empty lot has a crane over it or a building under construction. Its almost like in 10 years, the Victory developers are building the downtown that downtown never was, single-handedly. Amazing. Maybe we should vote the head of Victory as city manager or mayor.

I hope the city applies some of these lessons to building the real downtown!

[KesslerDweller]

I am not impressed with Victory. I have been down there several times including multiple events at the W. It is so Hollywood wannabe it is funny.

[citizen]

I got lost today in Victory, and I was AMAZED at the amount of constructiong going on down there...literally every empty lot has a crane over it or a building under construction. Its almost like in 10 years, the Victory developers are building the downtown that downtown never was, single-handedly. Amazing. Maybe we should vote the head of Victory as city manager or mayor.

I hope the city applies some of these lessons to building the real downtown!

Yes, you are absolutely correct, and downtown is improving as well - and most of it is really great. One big hurdle that we have is to get a world class park along the trinity instead of a tollroad and we may truly one day have a wonderful city center. Everyone will be moving in.

[xen0blue]

Yes, you are absolutely correct, and downtown is improving as well - and most of it is really great. One big hurdle that we have is to get a world class park along the trinity instead of a tollroad and we may truly one day have a wonderful city center. Everyone will be moving in.

I'd have to disagree about the trinity park. The trinity will, and always will be, a glorified drainage ditch. If they build a park on it, not only will it be nasty, but everytime there is a flood, the park will flood because the trinity, as it is now, is a floodplain. I think the best thing they can do to the trinity is make the ground and banks of the trinity cement, like the LA river.

[cowboyeagle05]

This conversation needs to be moved to the all Victory Thread.

[frankchitown]

Since the Victory development has nothing to do with the Mavericks, Stars, or sports in general. Why was all of this development centered around the AAC? Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with Victory, but I can't help but wonder what a catalyst this would have been if it took place inside the CBD, filling the void between the Arts District and either West End or Deep Ellum. Those areas are eventually going to be developed, but most likely without the glitz, glamour, and energy that the CBD is desperately lacking.

[downtownguy25]

I got lost today in Victory, and I was AMAZED at the amount of constructiong going on down there...literally every empty lot has a crane over it or a building under construction. Its almost like in 10 years, the Victory developers are building the downtown that downtown never was, single-handedly. Amazing. Maybe we should vote the head of Victory as city manager or mayor.

I hope the city applies some of these lessons to building the real downtown!

wow are you from Dellview, NC
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/61387
, there are like 5 buildings going up now. tallest being around 40 stories. How do you really get lost with 2 major streets.

[xen0blue]

wow are you from Dellview, NC
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/61387
, there are like 5 buildings going up now. tallest being around 40 stories. How do you really get lost with 2 major streets.

lets not split hairs, for an area that size and the size of the buildings that are going up (and the ones that are already up), i'd say that's pretty impressive. Not to bash downtown at all, I am def pulling for it more than anything.

[tamtagon]

I dont think Victory is the new downtown; I think it's the newest part of downtown.


It is so Hollywood wannabe it is funny.

Hollywood wannabe (aka, a place where celebrities would visit specifically to increase and improve their marketability) is exactly what Dallas needs. It's a missing link, the see-and-be-seen setting with a media reach beyond the Southwest. The infamous Dallas pretentiousness will become so much less distasteful as soon as there's an appropriate backdrop for professional posers.

[slfunk]

I dont think Victory is the new downtown; I think it's the newest part of downtown.

Completely agree. Victory alone does not have the shear land mass that 'downtown' has. It will become the entertainment center of downtown, but not the new downtown. Once downtown 'inside the loop' gets up and going, there will be a residential mass that Victory will not be able to replicate (unless of course the developer starts encouraging 60 plus story residential buildings). It also will not kill downtown; again due to the size of downtown proper and its potential growth that is sure to come.

[logan]

when i was in Jr. High (Texas History Class) the smallest town in Texas was Telegraph and it had 7 people. It may not be there still though.

[lesterleelee]

Whether you lump Victory in with Uptown, see it as a connector to the West End, or view it as an emerging urban center in its own right, one thing is absolutely certain...it makes an impressive "front door" when approaching downtown from the North on I-35.

[br.reese]

All the new buildings look great, and the AAC is awesome. But they really don't even come close to complimenting each other. The arena doesn't fit.

[vandalay]

Yes, you are absolutely correct, and downtown is improving as well - and most of it is really great. One big hurdle that we have is to get a world class park along the trinity instead of a tollroad and we may truly one day have a wonderful city center. Everyone will be moving in.

Quit highjacking the thread

[amshepar]

Now all that is needed is a great way for people living downtown to get to victory and parts of uptown in a safe/clean/easy form of public transit.

[vman]

. The arena doesn't fit.
Agreed!! The arena looks silly in contrast to everything else in Victory. Keep David Schwarz's horrible architecture in Fort Worth!!

[Lionel Hutz]

Shouldn't it be "the buildings don't fit" since the AAC was there first?

Seriously, the more different architecture styles, the better IMO. We're not putting together an outfit where the cufflinks need to match the belt, which needs to fit with the socks, etc. It's a city. I don't want it to look pre-fabricated. I want old, new, modern, Gothic, glass, steel, etc.

I'm guessing some of y'all would reject a funky Frank Gehry design because it doesn't "fit in."

[vman]

Shouldn't it be "the buildings don't fit" since the AAC was there first?

Seriously, the more different architecture styles, the better IMO. We're not putting together an outfit where the cufflinks need to match the belt, which needs to fit with the socks, etc. It's a city. I don't want it to look pre-fabricated. I want old, new, modern, Gothic, glass, steel, etc.

I'm guessing some of y'all would reject a funky Frank Gehry design because it doesn't "fit in."
You're right about that. But I didn't like the AAC from the get go. It's not so much it doesn't fit as it is just butt ugly and extremely unimaginative and simply the worse of the "new stadiums".

[Fort Worthology]

I would take a dozen AACs over one Cirque - that is turning out to be one ugly tower. I never cared for the W, but the Cirque makes me appreciate it.

[Tnekster]

Who cares? By the time Victory is built out you won't even be able to see the arena. It's almost as if they know they picked the wrong design and now they are just trying to cover it up.

[St-T]

I would take a dozen AACs over one Cirque - that is turning out to be one ugly tower. I never cared for the W, but the Cirque makes me appreciate it.

Really... I love both. They are very modern, clean, and sleek. But, not very FW... maybe that is why you don't care for it.

[vman]

Who cares? By the time Victory is built out you won't even be able to see the arena. It's almost as if they know they picked the wrong design and now they are just trying to cover it up.
It does seem as more is built around Victory the arena is much less noticable. Luckily it is bland as oatmeal.

[carousel]

I would take a dozen AACs over one Cirque - that is turning out to be one ugly tower. I never cared for the W, but the Cirque makes me appreciate it.

I agree. The tower looks cheap.

[carousel]

Who cares? By the time Victory is built out you won't even be able to see the arena. It's almost as if they know they picked the wrong design and now they are just trying to cover it up.

AA is the right design.

[Spjz]

I would comment here but I can not manage to match my socks to my tie let alone my sports arenas to my condominium towers.

[gshelton91]

I like the AAC and i bet it holds its value better then most of the new Modern ones being built...

[clipper]

Original Victory plan was for everything to match AAC. Not so good an idea that was.

[vman]

Original Victory plan was for everything to match AAC. Not so good an idea that was.Thank god!! I would hate to imagine something that looks as phony as Southlake Towne Square right next to downtown Dallas.

[Lakewooder]

St-T:

Maybe it needs some caryatids on the front - instead of kitchsy horns they could hold a golden hockey stick and a basketball goal being tilted by a slam-dunk.

[vman]

St-T:

Maybe it needs some caryatids on the front - instead of kitchsy horns they could hold a golden hockey stick and a basketball goal being tilted by a slam-dunk.
Just so you know, Lakewooder, I had to look up carytid. You're so smart. So I take this is a reference to Bass Hall, another one of Schwarz's architectural bowel movements. :2lol:

[rogramjet]

So I take this is a reference to Bass Hall, another one of Schwarz's architectural bowel movements. :2lol:

What erudite architectural criticism! Reading through many of the threads on this forum, I honestly wonder how many of you folks are completely hammered when you sit down to type...

[vman]

What erudite architectural criticism! Reading through many of the threads on this forum, I honestly wonder how many of you folks are completely hammered when you sit down to type...
Chill fella, it was only a joke..well, not really, as I find most of Schwarz's work horrible. Sorry if my architectural criticism is too brassy for you, but..really?? Have you ever read an abrasive movie review, a record review, a literary review??? I guess not..or are you just from Fort Worth and insecure about anyone expressing dislike about anything from your wonderful little city.

Since this is an urban/architectural forum, I wouldn't be too shocked when someone ocassionally makes an architectural criticism. And if certain critiques on this forum are too vulgar for you, then I suggest you drive over to the Bass Hall, kneel before those two garish, cartoonish, angels and pray for our souls.

[rogramjet]

And if certain critiques on this forum are too vulgar for you, then I suggest you drive over to the Bass Hall, kneel before those two garish, cartoonish, angels and pray for our souls.

Uhh...I live in Austin so it would be a bit of a drive. But if you think it would help...

By the way, Victory Park is quite impressive. It reminds me of the Jersey City waterfront.

[INTX dave]

Check back in 10-20 years - The definition of Downtown Dallas will be very different.

[AeroD]

Not to be the thread Nazi, but I think this thread belongs in City Issues or Pegasus Place as it does not talk about a specific development project that has not been discussed in other threads.

[jsoto3]

agreed, done.

[tdt5940]

Do you pictures of Victory tower under construction?

[mikedsjr]

I don't care for the bottom half of the W. I like the top half. Its an interesting concept though. You can certain figure out where hotel stops and condos begin.

I think the AAC is a great looking building. Is it out of place? Not really. Having different styles of buildings helps the look of an area, i think.

[mikedsjr]

AeroD, i think there are other nazis instead of you in this thread. You were correct in your assessments.

[St-T]

^So, would you like to purchase one of the condos that you "like"...

[mikedsjr]

at $500,000+, That is WWWAAAY out of my price range. I must be considered upper lower class or lower middle class if $500,000 is for a middle class family of today.

[Nagih12]

Just out of concern, how much sf of retail will Victory Park have at FULL build-out? Also, will victory have other building with it besides the W, cirque, house, etc?

[St-T]

at $500,000+, That is WWWAAAY out of my price range. I must be considered upper lower class or lower middle class if $500,000 is for a middle class family of today.


I can't imagine that 500k is avg for a middle class family... unless that is a zero down, interest only 5 yr arm on a 40 yr note! ...and, we know how that is going, now!

[dallasbrink]

Every one who hates on whoever the guy who designed the American airlines Center is jealous because u dont have a massive arena that is constantly shown all over the country to say "That there, that is mine!" The Arena is spectacular, the buildings are great, the development is coming along and more is still to be built. What the area really needs is a street car to go threw it the Old McKenny line in Up Town....but a more modern version like the 2030 Dart plan has in mind.

Be proud that the American Airlines Center fought the Evil Laura Miller and was constructed so we can now have the Victory Development. I think it looks awesome and the contrast in styles makes it unique.