Sunken Garden

[TexasStar]

This sunken area at One Main Place must have seemed like a good idea at the time, but now, perhaps not so much.
I suppose it was more lively years ago, when there was a Brennan's restaurant there.
Is there possibly a better use for this space?


http://urbandallas.us/images/sunken_garden.jpg

[DalLove444]

^Was that pic taken recently? If so was it weekday/weekend/midday?

[tamtagon]

It might make a good daycare center playground.... less chance a child could wonder off or get into the street.

[mjblazin]

That area is busy at lunch time and is a good place for smokers. It has 4 restaurants/food retailers on various sides. It's also on the path between Plaza Building and parking in One Main Place. Since you have to understand tunnel structure, it gets little traffic from street, but it's not inaccessible.

A real waste is the garden in the Plaza Building tunnel level. Surrounded by glass, it was great place, with plants, stone steps, and running water until 9/11. Then access became a security issue and no one has since been allowed access except the landscapers.

[eddieg1]

a few ideas

http://www.forwarddallas.org/files/up/20061011/dt-parks-master.pdf

pgs 64-68

[TexasStar]

I don't remember exactly when I took this shot. It could have been a weekend.
I'd just never really noticed it before. I'll go over and take a look during weekday lunch.

[trolleygirl]

You think a little green respite in the middle of the city is a waste? Are you on crack? The city's trying to "green" DTD by buidling more parks. What do you think should be "done" with this area?

[vman]

You think a little green respite in the middle of the city is a waste? Are you on crack? The city's trying to "green" DTD by buidling more parks. What do you think should be "done" with this area?
It's sort of a waste becase besides weekday lunch times, the place is pretty dead. (I have lunch occassionally at that Patio salad joint). Plus there's way too much concrete and too little trees, and it's hidden from street view and unaccessible during the weekends.

I would love to see lots more trees added, plus a restuarant or store that had a huge draw that would cause people to seek the place out. And of course, easy access and noticeability from Elm and Commerce steets.

[rantanamo]

I'm guessing they don't want just anyone there. Not in this "new era" of terrorism. Plus, this is Dallas. No one wants the general public in any place unless its in the right area because they think the homeless and thug dizzle will loiter there.

[Bferris]

It is very busy at lunch time. It is on private property and was built to serve the needs of building patrons, not the public. It is a very popular spot and the shops down there thrive.

Trees: The trees you see are really all that plaza can hold. It's a false bottom. Under that plaza is a massive post office sorting center that serves much of downtown. It is located on the service floor, B-1 of One Main Place. If you visit B-1 you can look up and see where the pillar supports for the plaza level are located.

Form follows function.

The footprint for the One Main Place garage actually extends beyond the property itself.

[gshelton91]

This seems to me very much like the underground plaza in front of the Hancock building in Chicago --- except no public access --- looks like that building would be a bigger target then this one.

It would be such a nice addition to downtown if it was open all the time. especially with that park going in across the street.

[clipper]

The original round fountain filled the entire center of the sunken plaza. During the early 1990s there was plan to put a glass dome over the whole thing and have restaurants and retail down there that was sheltered. They decided not to spend the money. I think that would have been the best plan for the area unless you want to go back with a fountain or such.

[clipper]

Gives you an idea how big was.

[grantboston]

This seems to me very much like the underground plaza in front of the Hancock building in Chicago --- except no public access --- looks like that building would be a bigger target then this one.

It would be such a nice addition to downtown if it was open all the time. especially with that park going in across the street.

The Hancock Center has a Cheesecake Factory and other amenities that this space does not. I'm not sure if the comparison really holds beyond the similarity that they're both sunken.

I do agree that if the Hancock Center can be safeguarded, this space can be. Fortunately, this building doesn't have ice falling from it in the winter. :)

Also, wasn't this building the first of a proposed number of buildings that were to comprise "Main Place"?

[TexasStar]

The fountain was nice. Wish they had kept it.

[kenc]

First to answer the "Main Place question...yes, I believe there was at least one more (taller) tower planned using the same horrible design.

How's this for an idea...cover the plaza - it's still connected to the underground and it has additional fast food joints for the lunch crowd. Above ground, replace the fountain - maybe smaller - and put somewhat nicer restaurants, shops, and night-time attractions. Valet parking.

[clipper]

There was a 60-story Two Main Place building that was supposed to span Main Street. There was also a round department store and retail center planned for the vacant half block across Main St. The project ground to a halt when the developer's wife came to his office and caught him in the act with his secretary. She pulled out a pistol and drilled him dead. That ended the deal. No joke. The truth.

[Bferris]

I think that Ren Tower has more than enough Food Court eateries that adding an additional enclosed food court at OMP would not be needed. As others mentioned, it is a popular smoking area.

[kenc]

I think that Ren Tower has more than enough Food Court eateries that adding an additional enclosed food court at OMP would not be needed. As others mentioned, it is a popular smoking area.

Maybe it's because I am not a smoker, but I don't think that is a good reason to keep a what is essentially a "dead zone" in the center of Downtown.

[cowboyeagle05]

So I started watching DALLAS Season 2 last Month and just watched disc 3 last night and took some screen shots of what Main Place looked like when it was a happening place. I was so sad that they apparently decided to take out the fountain probably because of maintenance costs. Which I guess we can see probably helped kill the vitality of the underground retail and restaurants in the sunken garden or 80's design. ONe major thing about the design of the water feature is the fact that it sprayed tall enough for people to see it at street level to encourage people to come down and meander near the water. They knew what they were doing just screwed it up when they changed out a water feature for just a couple of trees.

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/439/pdvd006dd1.jpg

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9066/pdvd007ap6.jpg

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4309/pdvd008ak4.jpg

This one you can see the reflection of what it might have looked like depending on how many extras where used in this scene.
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7878/pdvd000bc0.jpg

[cowboyeagle05]

This idea I submit as a modern addition and a restoration of this sunken garden since it is already there and could remain as a valuable part of Downtowns restored prosperous future. It will also remain as a part of our history as any building does when it transcends time by remaining useful. I suggest a restoration of some sort of a water feature one that takes green initiatives into its design and its use of water. The former fountain probably wasted gallons of water due to the large standing pool so I suggest something more interactive like whats at Chicago Millennium Park.

Think of something like this in the center with local art on it standing three stories high for people to see it from the neighboring Belo Gardens with water dripping down the sides just like at Millennium Park encouraging a return of sidewalk cafes in the sunken plaza that at night would be gorgeously lit up and still remain perfectly respectful to urban street level renewal if done correctly.

As far as the content on the sculpture it doesn't have to be faces if that creeps you out but simply a exterior art piece made more approachable by its use of water to cool the concrete pit it is now and become a part of usable fun art that everyone can enjoy. Inspiration for the subject matter would play off the fact that two stories of it would only be seen from street level but when you get closer and look into the garden the art piece changes based on the additional content hidden on the sunken lower level.

For those of you who hate to be copy cats of Chicago this is simply a inspiration for the kind of reuse and reworking of what we have and does not need to be exactly like the Chicago pictures below.

http://static.flickr.com/35/105180378_6e8436bc16_o.jpg http://www.coolhunting.com/images/millenium_led_cube2.jpg

[DTDdreamer]

Since we know the tunnels aren't going anywhere anytime soon, I think the space is a nice break when walking between BoA and OMP. I never knew the fountains existed... although I think big gaudy fountains are a big waste of water, I do think something that would recirculate a lesser amount would be nice in that space. The trees need to be replaced. Cypress seems to do well Downtown.

I'm also sad that The Patio restaurant is gone... as far as I know that was the best salad bar on that side of town!!! If you look in the back ground of the Dallas screen shots, you can see "The Patio" in the same spot. Same owners all that time? Anybody know what happened?

[vman]

I'm also sad that The Patio restaurant is gone... as far as I know that was the best salad bar on that side of town!!! If you look in the back ground of the Dallas screen shots, you can see "The Patio" in the same spot. Same owners all that time? Anybody know what happened?
I never knew Patio was gone. I was just thinking about eating there yesterday. Since I no longer work in Renaissance Tower, I rarely cross the plaza. That place helped me drop ten pounds a few years ago. I would eat there every day for lunch and take a salad (and sometimes a slice of delicious home made cake) home for dinner. I'm really gonna miss that place.

I like the fountain and would love to see it bought back. Those pics are cool!!

[mdg109]

Besides day time during business hours, I really don't think a sunken garden will work as being a lively place to interact for downtown. It's just too disconnected from street level activity IMO. Let's face it, it's still part of the tunnel system.

[cowboyeagle05]

Besides day time during business hours, I really don't think a sunken garden will work as being a lively place to interact for downtown. It's just too disconnected from street level activity IMO. Let's face it, it's still part of the tunnel system.

I disagree this part of the Tunnel system is very open to the rest of downtown and should not be wasted by just denying what usefulness it has left. With a central feature that reaches above the street level like the past fountain did but wasted water the sunken garden can be very beneficial and add to to the potential activity generated by the new park to be built next door. We all know the owners of these buildings are not gonna fill in the tunnels on their property and I think this property can very well add to the uniqueness of Dallas if balanced with encouraging street level activity.

This sunken plaza has a street level public stairwell and with other modern additions could be encouraging more fluid activity of people between the sidewalks and the patio atmosphere below.

Eventually one of these property owners is gonna invest in what they have and people are gonna need to figure out how to make whats already there fit in with our vision of a healthy downtown.

There is plenty of room in downtown for the underground and above to live in harmony if they are incorporated together.

The Tunnels are terribly separate and no where near as well laid out as a suburban mall would be so the street has nothing to fear if the street continues to fill in as it does.

[texcolo2]

Hmmm... I can think of a couple of dozen ideas of what to do with this site. Its at the most prominent intersection in downtown, it's two blocks from DART.

I think a small mixed-use tower that played off the fact that part of the site is at street level and part of it's lowered would be good. Maybe some Millenium Park style interactive art would work as well... but with on site retail, residential or office space. And a bunch of trees. They could add a block wide stairway on the Main Street side of the plaza and thus blending the street level into the Dallas tunnel system.

The reason the John Hancock Center sunken plaza works, is that the JHC is on Michigan Avenue (AKA Miracle Mile) THE most vibrant street in North America period. ANYTHING would work on that street. The Miracle Mile has at least 3 Plaza of the Americas style indoor urban malls that are brimming with people.

[aygriffith]

There is plenty of room in downtown for the underground and above to live in harmony if they are incorporated together.

The Tunnels are terribly separate and no where near as well laid out as a suburban mall would be so the street has nothing to fear if the street continues to fill in as it does.

Thank you...