West End: Gables @ Field/Woodall Rogers

[dfwcre8tive]

Rental complex planned at edge of West End
Gables to build apartment community on prime sit
12:00 AM CDT on Friday, May 4, 2007
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
stevebrown@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-gables_04bus.ART.State.Edition1.368029c.html

One of Dallas' busiest apartment builders has purchased land for its second major project downtown.

Gables Residential has acquired almost five acres in the central business district at Field Street and Woodall Rodgers Freeway with plans to do a large apartment community.

The property – now occupied by parking lots – is adjacent to the West End entertainment district and across the freeway from the booming Victory project.

"I think it's a great development site," said Gables' senior vice president Doug Chesnut. "It has views in one direction of downtown and the other toward Victory."

Mr. Chesnut said it's too early to provide details on what his firm will build.

Gables bought the land – almost two city blocks – from Chavez Properties, which has owned the tract since the early 1990s.

It has long been considered one of the largest prime development sites downtown.

During the 1980s, developers even proposed building a 100-story skyscraper on the site. A real estate bust put an end to those ambitious plans.

Since then, the property has been used for surface parking by visitors and workers in nearby office buildings.

Chavez Properties had recently marketed the property for sale with a price tag of more than $100 per square foot.

Michael Anderson, a Dallas attorney who represents the sellers, confirmed the transaction but declined to provide any details.

"It's a unique site, and I hope they can build a project that fits it," Mr. Anderson said.

Gables acquired the property through a Texas limited partnership called LG Magnolia LP, according to county deed records.

Gables is the biggest apartment builder in central Dallas.

The Atlanta-based developer is completing a project to turn downtown's historic Republic National Bank Building into 229 apartments.

Gables also has projects under construction in Uptown.

Dallas real estate broker Newt Walker negotiated the sale of the property. He's worked on the property since the 1980s.

"This is the fourth time I've sold it," he said.

[dfwcre8tive]

That's one less surface lot for Trump to build his tower on...

[Rob]

At $100 per square foot I imagine they'd have to build pretty tall.

[dfwcre8tive]

At $100 per square foot I imagine they'd have to build pretty tall.

Maybe a 100-story apartment building? :)

[vman]

Is this project taking all of the parking lots from the World-Aquarium to Woodall Rogers?

[slfunk]

It will be interested to see how this will. I wonder if the city will require Gables to provide parking for their development plus some for the parking that will be taken away from the surface. If not we could see a possible commercial parking garage in that area to meet the demand. That area does stay pretty full around the West End. I just hope we do not see stick frame in this area, but a tower. And like some already said at a possible 100/sq ft for the land I would think their proforma would dictate a tower or two on the 5 acres to make the numbers work.

[gshelton91]

Now we need to do something about the woodall Rogers overpass... I really think that could make a great covered plaza... all they would need to do is add insulation and aluminum panels to the ceiling, better lighting and replace the asphalt with something nice like stamped concrete. in the summer it would be a great place in the shade... could even add some giant fans(like the one at 24 hour on north central). Could have flexible space below for concerts, art shows, antique shows, car shows etc.

[AZDallasite]

It will be interested to see how this will. I wonder if the city will require Gables to provide parking for their development plus some for the parking that will be taken away from the surface. If not we could see a possible commercial parking garage in that area to meet the demand. That area does stay pretty full around the West End. I just hope we do not see stick frame in this area, but a tower. And like some already said at a possible 100/sq ft for the land I would think their proforma would dictate a tower or two on the 5 acres to make the numbers work.

It would be a great under-utilization of the property to build something using stick frame. As for parking, I could see them building a rather large garage and using part of it commercially. What a great way to earn extra revenue for them. Also, maybe this would lead to the development of the other surface parking lots if successful.

[hamiltonpl]

That's a great site. I've had a lot of hope for this land. The area has the infrastructure for something really big. I can't wait to see the plans.

[clipper]

During the 1980s that same land sold for more than $200 per square foot. Highest price downtown got to about $300.

[AZDallasite]

^some pretty expensive parking spaces

[psukhu]

Now we need to do something about the woodall Rogers overpass... I really think that could make a great covered plaza... all they would need to do is add insulation and aluminum panels to the ceiling, better lighting and replace the asphalt with something nice like stamped concrete. in the summer it would be a great place in the shade... could even add some giant fans(like the one at 24 hour on north central). Could have flexible space below for concerts, art shows, antique shows, car shows etc.

In downtown Manhattan (east side) the FDR is raised just like this. Even though that area of Manhattan is many times more expensive than this part of Dallas (maybe 10 times?), the area under the FDR still looks blighted. Maybe Dallas can do better.

[jsoto3]

In downtown Manhattan (east side) the FDR is raised just like this. Even though that area of Manhattan is many times more expensive than this part of Dallas (maybe 10 times?), the area under the FDR still looks blighted. Maybe Dallas can do better.
They're fixing that problem:
http://www.lowermanhattan.info/extras/presentations/erw_low_res_present_72.pdf
http://www.lowermanhattan.info/future/looking_ahead/24_7/east_river.aspx

. . . and I doubt Dallas could/would do better.

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7745/eastriveresplanadebelowdz3.jpg

[cowboyeagle05]

SO thats what they want for the Trinity Project a highway and pedestrian esplanade. Joking aside I think this kind of stuff is needed. I have walked under there to Victory several times now and even though things hae been improved with the arches leading to the plaza on the Victory side there needs to be more as the rendering above suggests. Cause the residents of Gables West End project currently will have to drive to the Woodall Rogers Park when built be cause the pedestrian access is so bad going east along the highway. It would be nice to not just put parking garage against the highway on this property. If there are good plans for a better underside to Woodall then this project won't use Woodall as its total backside. lets hope it doesn't turn into something thats enclosed so much so that people will want to walk into the West End. Did that make since?

[gshelton91]

/\ Cool that is what i was thinking... it could be a really great space and you would not have to worry about the birds pooping on you.

[OneDallas]

It would be a great under-utilization of the property to build something using stick frame. As for parking, I could see them building a rather large garage and using part of it commercially. What a great way to earn extra revenue for them. Also, maybe this would lead to the development of the other surface parking lots if successful.

I think this site is in the West End District which limits height to like 100 feet.

[AZDallasite]

I wonder how hard it would be to get a height variance.

[clipper]

No, this is not in the West End. It is the only site in downtown Dallas that has the height allowance up to 100 stories.

[tamtagon]

12:00 AM CDT on Friday, May 4, 2007
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

Gables Residential has acquired almost five acres in the central business district at Field Street and Woodall Rodgers Freeway with plans to do a large apartment community.

Five acres is big, and would hold hundreds of apartments in a low/mid rise garden style complex. I have low to no expectations for a nice, tall highrise....

You never know, though, because this is a perfect location for a collection of several 20-30 story highrises, with low rise community amenities connector buildings targeting the middle income demographic. There's so much retail-ready store front space available in/around the West End that during the time it takes to prep and deliver 1,500 new construction dwellings all the basic household need retailers will have moved in.

[Kelley USA]

Gables has built some really nice properties in Uptown- including the 2 new ones in the West Village. I think this will be really nice and do the lot justice!

[rantanamo]

I'm not the biggest height person, but I hope they don't waste that site with something 4-10 stories. There are plenty of sites around the West End and inner-city Dallas for that matter that could use shorter developments.

[Stevo50]

I'm not the biggest height person, but I hope they don't waste that site with something 4-10 stories. There are plenty of sites around the West End and inner-city Dallas for that matter that could use shorter developments.


Agree 100%

[SCARLETandBLACK]

Not that any of this would be implemented because we want it to be so, but I agree with several of you for once on this one.

If this is the ONLY site in Dallas that is zoned for 100 stories, and it has remained INTACT for the past few decades, it would be a waste to build anything less than 1003* feet tall, even if it doesn't make it to the 100 story benchmark.

*1003 feet, of course, would make the building the tallest building in Texas, in front of Houston's very own 75 story J.P. MorganChase Tower, which stands 1002 feet tall.
1003 feet would also (as of today) put the building as the 10th tallest building in the country. Add another 44 feet to that and it would be the fifth tallest building in the country (as of today), ahead of the Crysler Building and the equally tall New York Times Building.

We all know that any building that tall in any other site, (because all other sites would require a variance), would stir a fight and probably wouldn't be built - at least not at that height.

[psukhu]

I think they will build something that gives them the maximum profit when they sell the completed development. In order to achieve that, they will look at what they need to do to bring in the maximum rental revenue with the lowest construction costs.

They will consider various construction techniques on the size of the land (along with the current rental market) to determine what to build in order to achieve maximum economic efficiency while balancing risk.

[clipper]

After the thrashing Angela Hunt gave them over their proposed Katy Trail high-rise, I wouldn't expect Gables to be interested it building anything very tall on that site. They do as much as economics demand and that's about it. Fortunately, they don' t need any zoning from the city.

[rantanamo]

Of course they will. That's what makes the US great. Everything is usually built right on that line without risk and maximum profit. As I said, there are lots everywhere, but only one of THOSE lots in the entire city.

[hamiltonpl]

Okay, so what do the economics demand on that site?

[vman]

I think I would rather see several 10-15 story buildings with ample retail and parking (garage) spaces. The height is not nearly as important to me as getting rid of that "hole" in our cityscape.

I do wonder how those parking lots will be missed. They're not only used during work hours, but lots of people park there during events at the AAC. I'll even park there ocassionally if I drive to work. Still, I'm happy to see them go.

[clipper]

I predict closer to 7 to 8 stories with some retail.

[DallasMan]

Yeah, i just don't see Gables going that tall w/ this when they already have the Republic coming online in DTD

[msutton]

If they put in a 2 or 3 level parking garage with the development, there could end up being a net gain of parking spaces. Might be worth their while to make it 4 or 5 levels of parking to add revenue and make parking for whatever retail they put in more appealing, at least until Dallas can rid herself of the "must-drive-everywhere" mentality.

[Kelley USA]

I'm not sure they would charge for parking... If they do retail space- you would think some parking would be available for tenants and customers. Not to mention- if I lived in this complex I would not want my visitors to have to pay for parking. 1001 Ross offers free parking.

[slfunk]

I'm not sure they would charge for parking... If they do retail space- you would think some parking would be available for tenants and customers. Not to mention- if I lived in this complex I would not want my visitors to have to pay for parking. 1001 Ross offers free parking.

True. They can disgnate parking for the patrons of that retail (say 1 hr parking) and then charge for parking of the people staying longer ie office worker etc. It all depends on how the garage is set up.

[Rob]

I wish developers would put the parking underground. I know it's tougher to do and everything but the presence of 3 or 4 (or more) stories of parking garages at the base of every building is disturbing. At very least conceal the parking and put some retail at the base of the garages.

[clipper]

For residential projects the parking in the base is a plus. It moves the homes higher up and gives everyone better views. Plus, residenital tenants and buyers are turned off by dark underground garages.

[Rob]

Like I said, if they could at least do something to make the ground level exterior of the garages interesting and useful to pedestrians it'd be a whole different story.

[SCARLETandBLACK]

Plus, with over the ground parking, you don't have to worry as much about water main breaks.

I remember a few years ago, when there was a major break, several buildings' basements and underground parking garages were damaged.

I wonder, do you think that just having an underground parking garage makes your building's flood insurance go up? (Of course, the more underground space during a tornado, the better.)

[1999McKinneyAve]

Hopefully, Gables will make these units very affordable compared to what's being built at Victory and along lower McKinney Avenue. There's only so many people who can either afford to pay, or clueless enough to pay, $3-10,000/month in rent.

[rosewood]

Something like this would be nice. It would be a crime to waste the only property with an allowed height of 1600 feet to be used on low-rise development. I don't think Gables has the vision or the pockets to develop something that is capable of taking advantage of the extreme height. Dallas is about to loose it's only opportunity to build super high I think. There still is that property the Sweeny's have. I think they can build to 1320 feet over there. Didn't that fabulous architect Jonathan Bailey design some super tall residential tower for their property?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/pullinbuddy/GABLES-SPIRE.jpg

[dfwcre8tive]

This would be nice too.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/2404trumpstack.jpg

or something like this :
http://www.som.com/content.cfm/infinity_tower

or this:
http://www.som.com/content.cfm/shanghai_center

:)

[rosewood]

Well! That looks like a far better rendering of my little drawing. Lets see what you can do with this -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/pullinbuddy/GABLES-TWIN-SPIRES.jpg

[dfwcre8tive]

^ The one I posted was the rendering for the 1300' Trump Tower Chicago which would look nice in Dallas. I guess you and Trump think alike :)

http://www.skyscrapers.com/files/transfer/6/2003/01/179332.jpg

[rantanamo]

I'd like to see something like the Time Warner complex in Manhattan. Don't know if Dallas is ready for that yet.

[logan]

the general consensus from what i hear from my architect friends is that the time warner complex is crap. its like a bunch of different projects stacked on top of each other. Id go with something more like that building next to it that has the diamond shapes that criss cross and its built on top of the old building that was there before.

[rosewood]

Hardly crap darling! May be stacked on top of each other but really, crap? The MO is fabulous! I just brunched at Masa last weekend - not crap. Whole Foods - not crap. One Central Park - not crap. My dear Omaha friend Joe Ricketts' fabulous 28 million dollars penthouse - not crap!

Really, darling, upgrade your architect friends!


the general consensus from what i hear from my architect friends is that the time warner complex is crap. its like a bunch of different projects stacked on top of each other. Id go with something more like that building next to it that has the diamond shapes that criss cross and its built on top of the old building that was there before.

[rantanamo]

the general consensus from what i hear from my architect friends is that the time warner complex is crap. its like a bunch of different projects stacked on top of each other. Id go with something more like that building next to it that has the diamond shapes that criss cross and its built on top of the old building that was there before.

I don't understand what that means? Architecturally its on piece and flows together well in the interior and exterior. Besides, don't we want a bunch of different uses in one tower(ala the Mandarin Oriental tower in Victory). I think that type of building would be much better supported in Dallas at this time. I only want tall there because of the height allowance. There aren't many if any others with such a nice height allowance. Otherwise, I'd want something that matches the West End height wise.

[psukhu]

As far as Woodall Rodgers goes, here are two freeways running through downtown Seattle.

This is the Alaskan Way Viaduct. This seperates downtown from the waterfront. Their version of MATA runs along it.

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13217&stc=1

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13216&stc=1



This is I-5. It seperates downtown from the rest of the city the same way that Woodall Rodgers seperates Downtown from Uptown Dallas. Note the deck.

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13215&stc=1

[Rob]

Driving by and looking at this area from the freeway, it looked like there was something being torn down... anyone know what's going on over there?

[vman]

Driving by and looking at this area from the freeway, it looked like there was something being torn down... anyone know what's going on over there?
You're probably seeing the old Wells Fargo drive-thru bank. There's a smaller WF drive thru bank that recently opened right next to it. The old one is currently being demolished. A realty sign is still on the site, so I don't know if anything is planned for the location.

[vman]

I'm really curious to see what is going to go into this location. A friend and I think if there's any part of DTD where a new mixed-use West Village type development could go this is it. It's right across the freeway from Uptown, near Victory and the West End, plus high freeway visability from Woodall Rogers. It's worthy of much more than just strictly residential.