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Lakewooder
17 September 2004, 07:41 PM
Thanks, Arlington, for building a new stadium for our team.

Thanks, Arlington, for filling up our hotels, the West End, Uptown, Lower Greenville and Deep Ellum with after-game revelers.

Thanks, Arlington, for picking up the big bucks we were to pay Texas, OU, Prairie View A&M and Grambling.

Thanks, Arlington, for making Jerry Jones another billion!

City of Dallas

rantanamo
17 September 2004, 10:33 PM
yeah, since Jerry lives in Dallas, maybe he spends much more in Dallas with his new billion

pariah
18 September 2004, 07:58 PM
but he doesn't live in dallas

rantanamo
18 September 2004, 11:57 PM
ok, he lives one block from Dallas. I'd imagine he spends lots in Dallas unless Highland Park has every type of retail there is.

freewaytincan
19 September 2004, 03:00 AM
ok, he lives one block from Dallas. I'd imagine he spends lots in Dallas unless Highland Park has every type of retail there is.

Lavishes himself in it, you mean.

JBB
19 September 2004, 11:18 AM
Not trying to nitpick on details, but the above article was from Fort Worth Weekly, not the Star Telegram.

Lakewooder
20 September 2004, 08:18 PM
Thanks, Arlington, for freeing up our money for the Calatrava bridges to bring home the after-game crowd to world-class entertainment.

psukhu
20 September 2004, 09:58 PM
ok, he lives one block from Dallas.

Which route will Jerry take on game day?

My guess:

-North on Preston
-East on Mockingbird
-South on 75
-West on 30
-Exit at Ballpark Way
-Drive into "bat cave" like tunnel under stadium


Wow, there's a good chance he'll get caught in traffic with the rest of us.

tamtagon
21 September 2004, 07:26 AM
Which route will Jerry take on game day?



I'm guessing he'll arrive at the stadium by helicopter.

drumguy8800
21 September 2004, 05:26 PM
Thanks, Arlington, for freeing up our money for the Calatrava bridges to bring home the after-game crowd to world-class entertainment.

we're like a buncha bitter old men.

freewaytincan
21 September 2004, 08:58 PM
we're like a buncha bitter old men.

Only like?

psukhu
28 September 2004, 01:18 PM
http://www.nojonestax.com/


Supreme Court could have last word on stadium

by O K Carter, Star-Telegram Staff Writer, 27th September 2004

The U S Supreme Court, whose justices are most likely oblivious to whether Arlington becomes the home of the Cowboys, could make a decision today that would affect use of eminent domain for such projects. A decision prohibiting use of eminent domain for such endeavors might well make land acquisition too costly, regardless of the outcome of the November 2 election.

Today, the high court is expected to conduct a private conference in which members will decide what cases they will hear in upcoming months. A decision not to hear a case means that whatever the last ruling was will stand. The case before the court most interesting to people such as Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and the Arlington City Council will be Kelo vs New London.

Basically, the issue is whether government can use eminent domain to take private property for the enhancement of other private individuals as opposed to a traditional government use like street-widening or a public library. In this case, the city of New London CT took a home as part of a redevelopment project anchored by a Pfizer research facility.

Though New London initially claimed that the area was blighted, it has since conceded that the sole purpose was for economic development. New London, incidentally, won its case before the Connecticut Supreme Court. How could this affect Arlington and the Cowboys? While some of the area that would be taken via eminent domain for the new stadium is clearly blighted, some is rather mundane but reasonably well-maintained single-family housing.

Basically, bringing the Cowboys to Arlington is about economic development, not getting rid of blight. The hope is that the U S Supreme Court will resolve this particular eminent domain issue, as the volume of cases on the subject has been building in various lesser courts in recent years. A sampling?

Last year, the Arizona Court of Appeals ruled that Mesa didn't play the game properly when it used eminent domain to take a brake shop only to turn the land over to a hardware store operator. A federal judge the year before delivered a no-no to Cyprus CA for condemning church property for a new Costco.

And the findings of a 1981 case in which Wayne County MI basically wiped out a neighborhood to collect enough property to build a new automotive plant is up for review and potential overturn this month. Those lower-court cases aside, it's really now up to the U S Supreme Court to define the parameters of eminent domain and the definition of what constitutes "public use" and how elastic that use can be.

The ripple effect of the court's decision - either way - would be wide and most certainly could have a bearing on validity of taking private property for facilities such as ballparks and football stadiums.

This column contains material from the National Law Journal. O K Carter's column appears Sunday, Monday and Thursday. (817) 548-5428, okc@star-telegram.com © 2004 Star-Telegram and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.

slfunk
28 September 2004, 01:59 PM
I hope the court votes for this. I think it would be great step forward. I think it time for Jerry Jones to invest in his own business and not make tax payers do so. I just don't understand how greedy one person can be ( well actually I can cuz we're seeing it ). The loop hole though that I worry about is if the project is supplemented by public funds, then how does it make the building a private building?

CTroyMathis
28 September 2004, 02:24 PM
Ha! As an aside, I like the part of that article stating there's some blight in New London, CT. No, really?

Lakewooder
28 September 2004, 07:51 PM
I think this was done for what is it -- North Hills Mall or something (sorry don't get to Ft Worth area much). The homeowners there lost, but I guess they didn't take it much further (the government has taxpayer-funded lawyers to drive you out of the game with various motions and appeals, etc. costing many thousands to answer).


I think a stadium might/maybe/possibly qualify for eminent domain...but not a mall - a completely private enterprise.

Not that I want to give Jerry anything...

tamtagon
28 September 2004, 11:12 PM
The city of Carrollton has been positioning to take private property for mixed use development(s) near future DART rail stations.

If Arlington is going to take land for a Cowboys stadium, it should be the vacant land which never got developed with the Ballpark. Hicks v Jones?

tamtagon
28 September 2004, 11:16 PM
I think a stadium might/maybe/possibly qualify for eminent domain...but not a mall - a completely private enterprise.

However, the city of Arlington would not collect any tax from the stadium's revenue, only from the all the other development spured by the stadium.

Lakewooder
29 September 2004, 06:37 PM
Economist: Cowboys Stadium Study A 'Joke'


KXAS-TV

ARLINGTONTexas - Voters in Arlington will decide whether to build the Dallas Cowboys a new stadium, but an economic impact study designed to help residents make their decisions is a "joke," according to some economists.

The 50-page, a $25,000 study touts the stadium deal as the key to Arlington's future economic boom, but critics counter that it's biased and baseless.

No one doubts that the proposed stadium would be nothing short of awesome -- a Cowboy fan's heaven right here on earth, but are the consultants who are predicting it will create an economic boom in Arlington using numbers from outer space?

They are, according to Craig Depken, an economist at the University of Texas, Arlington.

"Making a judgment, which is a 30-year commitment to a stadium, based on numbers that are just made up, I mean, ultimately that's what they are, I think is dangerous," Depken said.

Depken goes as far as calling the study "silly," pointing out that the study predicts that the stadium will help sell 42, 000 hotel rooms each year in Arlington, while a similar study in Irving found that just 4,200 rooms was a realistic number.

However, Arlington Mayor Robert Cluck insists that the numbers in the study are accurate.

"All the other studies don't apply to this city. They may apply to Irving, they do not apply to Arlington," he said.

Cluck does concede that one portion of the study is a mistake -- that cheerleaders would help bring in $25 million a year.

Still, he firmly believes the $650 million stadium, half of which will be paid for by Arlington, will pump nearly $200 million into the city's struggling economy.

"We're not in the stadium business. When it's built, we won't be in the stadium business. We're in the economic development business," Cluck said.

"I don't know if one stadium, one team playing 10 games a year, is equivalent to 5 percent of the Arlington economy," Depken said.

NBC 5 contacted the author of the study, but was told by his assistant that he had no comment.

gc
29 September 2004, 06:40 PM
whoa!

Flaming Moderate
29 September 2004, 09:42 PM
Judging by what I see driving by, there are enough stupid people in Arlington to vote "yes." I know Arlington is kind of back woods, but I'm shocked at the simpletons in the government there. Clearly Ameriquest Field is an fine example of this is all BS.

Flaming Moderate
29 September 2004, 09:44 PM
I suspect that this might bankrupt an already financially strapped city. Already an old suburb, without cash for infrastructure and projects that help local people, Arlington will continue its slide toward dumpsville while Jerry gets richer.

mikedsjr
30 September 2004, 09:02 AM
Judging by what I see driving by, there are enough stupid people in Arlington to vote "yes." I know Arlington is kind of back woods, but I'm shocked at the simpletons in the government there. Clearly Ameriquest Field is an fine example of this is all BS.


I drive through Dallas everyday. I hear the news about Dallas. I see the articles about Dallas. I find stupid people there all the time. But that doesn't give a conclusion that Dallas is a stupid place.

Neither does it do that for Arlington.

rantanamo
30 September 2004, 09:33 AM
LOL! People here think ALL Texans are backwoods, LOL.

gc
30 September 2004, 10:18 AM
I drive through Dallas everyday. I hear the news about Dallas. I see the articles about Dallas. I find stupid people there all the time. But that doesn't give a conclusion that Dallas is a stupid place.

Neither does it do that for Arlington.

Well said Mike. I agree.

warlock55
30 September 2004, 02:00 PM
From Otis White at Governing.com



The Force Has Left Us
The Big City’s Fatal Attraction


At one time or another, the thought has occurred to leaders in every big, fast-growing suburb that, really, our community is every bit as rich and important as the city down the road. So why stand in its shadow anymore? That’s a common sentiment among leaders in Atlanta’s muscular suburb of Gwinnett County. And it’s more than just a sentiment. In recent years, Gwinnett has acquired the trappings of a separate city by building civic facilities: a convention center, a performing arts center and an arena, where a minor-league hockey and an arena football team play. The message was clear: You don’t have to drive to Atlanta anymore to have a good time. The football team, the Georgia Force, was a particular point of pride. (If you’re not a sports fan, arena football is a fast and furious version of the game. Imagine professional football played indoors on surfaces half the size of NFL fields with a couple of weird rules thrown in, like 4-point drop kicks, and you have the idea.) Alas, the Force is no longer with Gwinnett County. The new owner, Arthur Blank, is moving the team to, of all places, downtown Atlanta. Worse, Blank said the reason he’s doing this is because the team did a survey of fans and they said they’d rather drive to Atlanta to see games. “... When they had a vote on where they wanted to spend their Friday nights, their Saturday nights, their Sunday afternoons, they said let’s go back downtown,” Blank explained. Gwinnett officials reacted as if they’d been shot. “It’s going to be a great loss to the county,” said the previous owner, a Gwinnett business leader. “We have no other equivalent attraction out here in Gwinnett.” Fan sentiment aside, there was a problem with the arena in Gwinnett: It wasn’t big enough. The 11,000-seat facility was the second-smallest in the 20-team league, and attendance averaged only 9,000 a game. Blank predicted that once the team is relocated, the Force would average 17,000 or more. Maybe, but you can count out Alan Freedman for the move. A Force fan, he said he liked the suburban location. “The restaurants are just as good [as downtown Atlanta], and you’ve got free parking right there,” he said. “Downtown, it’s going to cost somebody an extra $10 or $12, and the atmosphere just isn’t the same.” Footnote: There was another blow recently to the Gwinnett independence movement: the loss of county commission Chair Wayne Hill, a prime mover behind the county’s new civic facilities. Hill was defeated for re-election this summer by a candidate who promised to slow the pace of growth in Gwinnett.

tamtagon
30 September 2004, 02:23 PM
Arthur Blank, is moving the team to, of all places, downtown Atlanta.

This man has done a whole lot for Atlanta, he's one rich guy who cares.

psukhu
05 October 2004, 04:48 PM
Cowboys may buck stadium trend
12:39 PM CDT on Tuesday, October 5, 2004

By JEFF MOSIER / The Dallas Morning News

LANDOVER, Md. – Dallas Cowboys fans who want a glimpse of their possible future need only look north into enemy territory.

Most sports franchises are following urban pioneers back to formerly blighted inner cities to build new stadiums. But the Cowboys – like their archrival Washington Redskins did seven years ago – are shunning that path and hope to build a new home in the suburbs.

Arlington voters will decide Nov. 2 whether to pay for several tax increases to build the Cowboys' $650 million stadium. But officials here say they have no doubt about what FedEx Field has done for them.

"We're in the best economic boom we've been in," said Jack Johnson, the Prince George's County executive.

Much of the credit goes to dedicated Redskins fans who visit the stadium from across the county and from throughout the region. He estimates that the amusement taxes on each ticket sold, combined with the property taxes on the stadium, rake in more than $10 million annually. Add the restaurant meals, gasoline, hotel rooms and tailgating grub sold by local merchants, and the Redskins have been a success story for the county, Mr. Johnson said.

Although they are separated by more than 1,300 miles, the Redskins' stadium and the Cowboys' potential home are closer than many might think. Overlook the rolling hills and the ever-present Redskins jerseys, and Prince George's County looks a lot like Arlington.

It's a middle-class suburban area sandwiched between two bigger cities: Baltimore and Washington, D.C. The Maryland county made its name in the early 1970s, when it lured the NBA's Baltimore Bullets to suburban Washington.

About the same time, Arlington staked its claim to fame when it landed a Washington team – the Senators – and renamed them the Texas Rangers. Both places even have their own state universities and Six Flags theme parks.


Economic hopes

Officials in the two suburbs also have the same hope that a flood of devoted football fans would help bring prosperity.

In the Landover area, officials said that dream is starting to come true. There was little development around the stadium in the years after it opened in 1997, but that has started to turn around.

A shopping center with more than 50 stores and restaurants opened late last year just across the Capital Beltway from the stadium. It was built on the site of the old MCI Center, where the Bullets and the Capitals hockey team played before moving into nearby Washington about the same time as the Redskins arrived.

However, there isn't agreement on whether FedEx Field, which held 93,000 for last month's Monday night game with the Cowboys, is always good for business. On game days, thousands of fans park within walking distance of the shopping center, but the gridlocked traffic and maze of detours scare away shoppers with no plans to attend the game.

Despite those inconveniences, Heather Sandell, assistant general manager of Red Star Tavern, said, "We never would have moved here without the stadium."

Although sales early this season have been slower than expected on game days, Ms. Sandell expects business to pick up. She can imagine the upscale sports bar filled with hungry and thirsty Redskins fans.

At the nearby Linens 'n Things, merchandise manager Joe Balazek said his store's selection of kitchenware and other household goods isn't likely to attract Redskins fans. He expects business to take a beating during every home game because of the "debilitating traffic."

Many merchants in the area, however, said that the addition of a movie theater and a rail station, which are both under construction, will probably do much more for their business than the eight regular season and two preseason games played on their doorsteps.

The large number of Redskins fans who show up early at FedEx Field often bypass nearby businesses and tailgate in the parking lot, sometimes for hours before the game. The fare ranges from hamburgers and hot dogs to steak and lobster, from light beer to cognac. And when the game is over, many fans said they either continue their tailgate or simply head home.

Ricky Congleton, a Cowboys fan from North Carolina who attended the Monday night game, said that seeing FedEx Field illustrates why his team needs a new home. He said the Cowboys deserve a first-class stadium, just like the Redskins, and he would be willing to make the long trip to Arlington.

"Wherever they go, I'd support them," he said.

The stadium has altered the lifestyles of some nearby residents.

Jackie Beamon-Kiene, who lives in adjacent Kentland and opposes FedEx Field, said that when the Redskins are in town, the stadium paralyzes neighborhoods within a couple of miles. Those who are at home don't dare leave, and those returning from church on Sunday are in for a long wait.

"People have difficulty doing anything," she said.

Much of the stadium opposition in Landover came from nearby residents who were worried about the traffic and environmental effects of FedEx Field. The organized opposition was less widespread than in Arlington, which would have a significantly larger investment in a Cowboys stadium.

Despite traffic complaints, which fill radio talk shows the day after games, county officials said the Redskins have been good for the area. The $10 million plus in taxes the stadium brings in every year, they said, greatly outweighs the modest public money investment.


Different funding

The city of Arlington will have to measure its stadium finances with a different yardstick, though.

The $250 million FedEx Field was funded entirely by former Redskins owner Jack Kent Cooke. About $70 million in public funding, most from the state, paid for road improvements and parking lots at the stadium, and the team received about $10 million in property tax breaks.

In contrast, the Arlington proposal includes as much as $325 million in tax dollars for the city's share of a Cowboys stadium. That's more than the combined tax money used for FedEx Field and to fund most of the construction of M&T Bank Stadium, home of the Baltimore Ravens.

Prince George's County officials said they have not commissioned any cost-benefit analysis for the stadium, but they said there appears to be a ripple effect in the economy. They said the main benefits are the tax dollars coming directly from the arena.

Because FedEx Field is privately owned, the Redskins have to pay property tax of about $8 million annually. In contrast, the city of Arlington would own the Cowboys' stadium, so the team would pay $2 million annually in rent instead.

Prince George's County also charges an 8 percent tax on each ticket, which puts an additional $2 million in its coffers each year. The city of Arlington could charge a ticket and parking tax, but those proceeds would go to paying off Jerry Jones' share of the stadium debt instead of the city's.

Prince George's County also receives more than $1 million a year from the Redskins to pay for the added public safety cost – most of it traffic control – when the team is in the town.

Dr. Dennis Zimmerman, an economist who has studied the public funding of stadiums, said he couldn't comment on the Redskins' venue since he had not read the contract. However, he said that voters should base their decisions on how much money from the stadium goes to the government and how much the government is spending.

In that analysis, Arlington would be spending much more money for a smaller direct benefit than Prince George's County, said Dr. Zimmerman, who was asked by Arlington stadium opponents to look at the city's deal with the Cowboys.

J. Matthew Neitzey, executive director of the Prince George's County Conference & Visitors Bureau, said that one of the greatest benefits has been the construction of a large sports complex by the Redskins. That has attracted major regional and national amateur athletic events to the county, which benefits hotels and restaurants.

"People think it's one of the best facilities on the East Coast," Mr. Neitzey said.

The fact the complex is just minutes from Washington, D.C., one of the nation's biggest tourist spots, makes it even more attractive, he said.

The Cowboys have pledged to donate $16.5 million to pay for youth athletic programs, but no decisions have been made on how that would be spent.

Economists who have studied the cost and benefits of sports stadiums have generally concluded that they aren't good investments. However, they warn that each situation should be analyzed separately. Arlington voters will have that chance to balance the costs and benefits, a task that experts can't always agree on. In Maryland, the state took a $70 million chance.

Arlington Cowboys fans' fourth-down gamble will be much higher.

E-mail jmosier@dallasnews.com

Online at: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/100504dnmetnewstadium.9865a.html

Mballar
05 October 2004, 05:16 PM
Of course Jerry wants to place his stadium in a location that can accomodate plenty of parking spaces. That means more money for him. He can charge anywhere from $15 to $45 per space. . .and that adds up to a lot of money.

drumguy8800
05 October 2004, 05:30 PM
ugh! stupid article!! We don't want examples of suburban success. If they want to write an article about suburban success, they need to write about the success of stadiums being built in innercity neighborhoods. The reason the Redskins built so far out was probably because building in the innercity is a lot harder in a place like Washington D.C. where much of the 'inner city' was layed out centuries ago and there isn't necessarily room for a stadium. In Dallas, we don't have such a layout. There's room to put a stadium in an innercity neighborhood. Jerry's just too much of a @#%@$# to wake up and do it!

rantanamo
05 October 2004, 05:37 PM
That's not an article of urban success. Reads more like a cheap big stadium is not creating super economic success. Remember, Arlington's mayor is on commercials proclaiming over $300 million in economic impact to Arlington alone EACH YEAR. Insane.

Mballar
05 October 2004, 06:02 PM
It's ironic that we wanted the new stadium located in Fair park because we envisioned what it could do for South Dallas. However, I'm afraid that if Arlington sinks its public funds into this deal, the area around the stadium will become more like South Dallas is now, over time.

rantanamo
05 October 2004, 06:24 PM
I simply think an urban area could actually do something with a stadium. The land prices and proximity to daily people densities really would call for something besides just parking lots. There's simply no real incentive to in Arlington. And for them to claim all that economic impact to Arlington only. What a joke. That impact may be felt for the entire metroplex. Maybe.

psukhu
05 October 2004, 07:05 PM
Arlington aims for Baltimore's success
12:38 PM CDT on Tuesday, October 5, 2004

By JEFF MOSIER / The Dallas Morning News

BALTIMORE – Much of the credit or blame for the millions of tax dollars spent annually on new sports stadiums can be traced back to this port city famed for its horse-racing and gritty crime dramas.

The Baltimore Orioles' home at Camden Yards started a stadium building boom a dozen years ago that spread across the country, including Arlington, first with the Texas Rangers and now with the Dallas Cowboys. Sports business analysts cite Baltimore's experience as the reason why so many cities pin their economic hopes on professional sports.

"People come for the day," said Alison Asti, executive director of the Maryland Stadium Authority, about local sports fans. "They don't just come for the game."

That adds up to millions of dollars in business for restaurants, shops and hotels in an area that was once filled with decaying wharfs and shuttered warehouses.

Arlington officials hope the addition of a 75,000-seat, retractable roof stadium for the Cowboys – which is on the Nov. 2 ballot – can do the same for an economically depressed area adjacent to its entertainment district. A study commissioned by the city projects that the stadium could pump $238 million into the city's economy annually, a similar figure to the estimated economic impact of the Baltimore Ravens' downtown stadium.

But some contend that the success of Camden Yards and the adjacent football stadium isn't as easily replicated in the suburban sprawl outside the central city.

When Maryland legislators approved funding in the 1980s for a new baseball and a new football stadium in Baltimore, the waterfront was not a hospitable place for tourists. However, change was already on the way.

Ms. Asti, whose agency built Camden Yards and M&T Bank Stadium for the Ravens, politely described the area as "underutilized."

Fans who spent a recent Sunday afternoon watching the Orioles shut out the Detroit Tigers weren't as generous.

"It was pretty horrendous," said Ron Oliver, an Orioles fan from south central Pennsylvania. He said it was a crime-ridden area that tourists avoided.

But the construction of the country's first retro-modern ballpark, its red brick warehouse motif the inspiration for Ameriquest Field in Arlington, was only part of Baltimore's downtown resurgence. Millions were already being spent to renovate the Inner Harbor, a section of southern downtown along the Patapsco River.

The waterfront was turned into a shopping district with an aquarium, science museum and convention center, all within several blocks of Camden Yards. High-end hotels, restaurants and urban homes sprung up in southern downtown.

After what is widely considered Baltimore's success, nearly half the 30 major league baseball teams – including the Rangers – have constructed new stadiums since the Orioles moved into their new home in 1992. That percentage is even higher in the NFL.

And unlike many of the stadiums built in the 1960s and '70s, the venues moved back to the city.

Ms. Asti said that one attraction, such as Camden Yards, wasn't enough. Tourists need a variety of activities to bring them to an area and keep them there.

Arlington officials cite that as a reason why a Cowboys stadium would be an economic success. The proposed site is south of the Rangers' stadium and near Six Flags and Hurricane Harbor water park.

However, promises of economic development surrounding Ameriquest Field haven't materialized in the decade since it opened. Although Ms. Asti isn't familiar with Arlington's stadium plans, she said that building massive sports venues in the suburbs is usually inefficient.

She said the key to Baltimore's success at Camden Yards was a compact development that encouraged people to park their cars and walk from location to location. If the stadium had been built outside the city, the state would have needed to pave over dozens of acres for parking lots that would insulate fans from nearby business.

Instead of building giant parking lots, they use street parking, downtown garages and mass transit to bring people in and out of the area. That leads to much smaller traffic jams than at Ameriquest Field in Arlington.

Because of the nearby attractions at the Inner Harbor, Orioles fans often show up for the game early to eat at nearby restaurants and leave late after a little shopping. That also spreads out the traffic.

Arlington officials hope a new Cowboys stadium will help bring them the same benefits.

E-mail jmosier@dallasnews.com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Online at: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/100504dnmetbaltimore.95e46.html

mikedsjr
05 October 2004, 07:43 PM
Ok. Arlington, your being stupid. I realize that FOOTBALL well outways any importance that a stupid idiotic game of baseball has. We all know that. Every baseball fan watches football but not every football fan watches baseball. We know that. But if you want this, then you have to have restaurants in the vicinity of the stadium. Not off I30. I'm talking literally across the street. Arlington, Just pay for the stadium and build the stadium in Dallas or Fort Worth. Your starting to get ridiculous with your mouth.

rantanamo
05 October 2004, 11:07 PM
LOL, is Arlington trying to compare itself to the Camden Yards area? This is such a backward comparison it's not even funny.

drumguy8800
05 October 2004, 11:15 PM
LOL, is Arlington trying to compare itself to the Camden Yards area? This is such a backward comparison it's not even funny.


But some contend that the success of Camden Yards and the adjacent football stadium isn't as easily replicated in the suburban sprawl outside the central city.

By george, I think he's got it!

and... ah, okay. http://www.dallascowboyspark.com/ no longer exists for some reason. :confused: maybe they named it? I'd love to see something like "Preparation H Park" or the "Depends MegaDome."

freewaytincan
06 October 2004, 01:06 AM
By george, I think he's got it!

and... ah, okay. http://www.dallascowboyspark.com/ no longer exists for some reason. :confused: maybe they named it? I'd love to see something like "Preparation H Park" or the "Depends MegaDome."

Ha ha ha ha ha! That made my night.

warlock55
06 October 2004, 03:21 PM
Ok. Arlington, your being stupid. I realize that FOOTBALL well outways any importance that a stupid idiotic game of baseball has. We all know that. Every baseball fan watches football but not every football fan watches baseball.
Talk about an overgeneralization.

mikedsjr
06 October 2004, 05:23 PM
I was just poking at baseball fans. I don't mean a word of it....except "Arlington, your being stupid".

drumguy8800
06 October 2004, 05:23 PM
I wish I wasn't OCD about grammar and SPELLING.

::refraining::

Then again, I can't spell the word "retarded," which is rather ironic.

psukhu
06 October 2004, 07:13 PM
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/local/states/texas/arlington/9848594.htm



Posted on Wed, Oct. 06, 2004


Stadium drawing NFL's support

By David Wethe
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

You can now add Paul Tagliabue, commissioner of the National Football League, to the growing list of supporters for a new $650 million retractable-roof stadium for the Dallas Cowboys in Arlington.

The commissioner plans to tour the city Oct. 16-18 with Mayor Robert Cluck and Tarrant County Judge Tom Vandergriff and listen to their plans for hosting a Super Bowl.

He also plans to catch a youth football game and a Cowboys game, and talk to the Arlington Chamber of Commerce and the Convention & Visitors Bureau.

"The purpose of the trip is to support the stadium initiative," said league spokesman Greg Aiello. "The Super Bowl is part of the discussion in terms of what this new stadium has the potential to host. The hosting of a Super Bowl now has serious potential."

The NFL requires that stadiums hold at least 70,000 people and not be affected by inclement weather. The 2011 Super Bowl is the earliest one the new Cowboys stadium could be eligible to host if it is open by the 2009 season.

"I want [Tagliabue] to see what the road improvements will be like, where the ballpark is, the location where we're proposing this thing be built and the possible synergy between the two," Cluck said.

IN THE KNOW

Town hall meetings

Arlington has scheduled five town hall meetings to discuss its effort to help pay for a $650 million stadium for the Dallas Cowboys. Tonight's meeting is scheduled for 6:30 at Nichols Junior High School, 2201 Ascension Blvd. District 1 Councilman Joe Bruner will be the host.
David Wethe, (817)548-5522 dwethe@star-telegram.com

Foucault
06 October 2004, 07:41 PM
I wish I wasn't OCD about grammar and SPELLING.

::refraining::

Then again, I can't spell the word "retarded," which is rather ironic.
OCD? What?

freewaytincan
06 October 2004, 09:08 PM
Then again, I can't spell the word "retarded," which is rather ironic.

Hah! I knew it was a musician thing!




OCD? What?

Obsessive - Compulsive (Disorder). I'm borderline; it goes along with the Asperger Syndrome.

Foucault
06 October 2004, 09:33 PM
I know what OCD is. I just didn't get the context.

drumguy8800
07 October 2004, 12:06 AM
I know what OCD is. I just didn't get the context.

Someone said "outways" instead of "outweighs" and then said "your" instead of "you're" twice.

I'm not really OCD.. at least, I've never been 'diagnosed' with it. I've also never been 'diagnosed' with aspergers, but i'm pretty dang sure I have that too.


Hah! I knew it was a musician thing!

What?

freewaytincan
07 October 2004, 12:58 AM
Ritard. Retard. Musicians! Surely you know what I'm talking about.

mikedsjr
07 October 2004, 07:54 AM
Someone said "outways" instead of "outweighs" and then said "your" instead of "you're" twice.


Your right. I just ain't getnit right.

Columbus Civil
07 October 2004, 08:32 AM
I'm borderline; it goes along with the Asperger Syndrome.

Assburger

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/image/images/small-bnb.gif

freewaytincan
07 October 2004, 11:34 AM
Assburger

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/image/images/small-bnb.gif

I get that a lot.

Geaux Tigers
10 October 2004, 08:23 AM
Two sports stadiums can be better than one

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By David Wethe
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Star-Telegram Staff Writer
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BALTIMORE -- Loud rock music blared as hundreds of rabid football fans chanted "Let's go, Ravens" and marched down Ravens Walk one recent Sunday.

The quarter-mile path connects M&T Bank Stadium and Oriole Park at Camden Yards, which are in the shadow of downtown Baltimore.

About two hours before the Baltimore Ravens' kickoff, the 5,000 parking spaces surrounding the two stadiums were nearly full of rowdy tailgaters. The aroma of grilled hot dogs filled the air while cars darted in and out of nearby neighborhoods, hunting for parking near the stadium.

Fans poured into the stadium from a light-rail station, parking garages, restaurants and sports bars.

A similar scene could play out in Arlington if voters approve funding Nov. 2 for a new Cowboys stadium next to Ameriquest Field.

City officials hope the synergy from such a deal would spur economic development around the venues and throughout the city. A Star-Telegram analysis of the 10 U.S. cities where professional teams play in neighboring stadiums found that it isn't improbable but that it might take several years.

During the last wave of stadium construction, several cities embraced the idea of side-by-side stadiums. The pairing saves money on land costs through shared parking and infrastructure, the analysis showed. If restaurants and clubs fill in around them, they create a buzz as the place to stop on the way to the car or the game.

Urban planners and sports economists said the dual site in Arlington won't have the momentum that would come from being near a large, vibrant downtown. So the key is to create a pedestrian-friendly, mixed-use development that's a mini-destination, said Don Carter, president of Pittsburgh-based Urban Design Associates. Carter's firm designed the urban landscape for stadium pairings in Cincinnati and Pittsburgh.

Trend-setters

Three decades ago, Kansas City, Mo., became the first city in America to build a two-stadium complex, for football's Kansas City Chiefs and baseball's Kansas City Royals. The stadiums are surrounded by a sea of parking spaces, a few hotels and some fast-food restaurants.

The biggest benefit was shared parking, thereby saving on land costs, said John Bondon, chairman of the Jackson County Sports Authority, which owns the stadiums.

But the downside is occasional scheduling conflicts.

"It gets challenging moving out 24,000 vehicles for football and bringing in 10,000 to 18,000 for baseball," said Chris Richardson, director of event operations for the Royals. "That presents a number of logistical issues that are not fun to deal with."

The nine cities that followed have chosen designs in stark contrast to Kansas City's plan.

In 1992, the Maryland Stadium authority and the Baltimore Orioles baseball team built Oriole Park at Camden Yards on the site of an old industrial plant and warehouse.

The long-term vision was that the stadium would help further expansion of the city's downtown tourist area, known as the Inner Harbor. There was even talk about someday attracting a football team and building a stadium just south of Oriole Park.

Six years later, the venue now called M&T Bank Stadium opened as the home of the National Football League's Ravens.

Today, bar owners say they couldn't survive without both stadiums. However, some also concede that the football stadium, which hosts about 15 events annually, is not exactly a huge factor when compared with the baseball stadium and its 81 games each year.

"Even though it's just eight or 10 home games a year, that's money we wouldn't have had otherwise," Christin Groller, manager of Max's Taphouse at Camden Yards, said of the football stadium. Max's was jammed with celebrating Ravens fans after a home game one recent Sunday afternoon. The restaurant faces the two stadiums, across the street from Oriole Park.

"We wouldn't be here without football and baseball," she added.

Economists are leery of concluding that the two facilities are a boon.

"They do great business on football game Sundays and relatively good business on baseball game days," said Dennis Coates, a sports economics professor at the University of Maryland-Baltimore County. "But to say a lot of new businesses have developed in the area is a bit misleading."

That's partly because it's hard to know how many restaurants and other venues would have opened without the stadiums. Indeed, the overall economic effect of a stadium is a topic of considerable debate among sports economists, urban planners, politicians and team officials.

"I can't tell you the name of a business that has opened downtown strictly because of the stadiums," said Lou Beer, a critic of Detroit's new football and baseball stadiums, which opened across the street from each other in the city's downtown. "But it's certainly true having those stadiums there has added to a feeling of cityhood in downtown Detroit."

Oliver Luck, chief executive of the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority, said a stadium can only do so much to revive the area around it.

"I'm of the belief that a stadium in and of itself brings relatively little real estate development around it, but it can be a catalyst," Luck said. His government organization recently built three new professional sports venues in Houston: two in the redeveloping downtown and one outside of the central city.

Rick Horrow, a consultant who has helped several NFL teams negotiate stadium deals with cities, said neighboring venues allow cities to benefit not just from shared parking, but also from creation of a destination attraction for retailers.

"There should be some significant synergy and development compatibility if two facilities are done near each other, independent of just sharing infrastructure," Horrow said. "I think that the most important issue is whether the facilities themselves recognize the desire to work in harmony for parking and traffic, and how involved retail promoters will be in defining the synergies between the two stadiums."

Planning matters

Some of the cities with dual stadiums, including Baltimore, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, had a master plan for the area before either facility was built.

That's not the case in Arlington.

"One of the things Arlington should be doing is an urban design master plan around that precinct," said Carter, of Urban Design Associates. "That master plan has to be coupled with a real hard-nosed market study."

For more than a decade, the Rangers have talked about bringing mixed-use development in a pedestrian-friendly format to the area around the ballpark. Although more than 30 businesses have popped up near the ballpark since it opened 10 years ago, few are within walking distance.

If the Cowboys move to Arlington, the city expects the teams to develop a master plan for the area around the two stadiums.

Stephen Jones, the team's chief operating officer, has said the Cowboys would be willing to help the Rangers develop land around Ameriquest Field in Arlington. But the team is not looking to take the lead in any development project, he said.

The Rangers and the Cowboys have held talks about being neighbors but have not announced a plan for working together.

"It's very complicated to have two stadiums as neighbors," Rangers owner Tom Hicks said. "It could be complementary, or it could be disastrous. That's why we want to have a general understanding."

Although Arlington doesn't have the kind of downtown Baltimore has, it does resemble the Maryland city in other ways.

The Great Southwest Industrial Park has a similar feel to the area where Oriole Park at Camden Yards opened. The two cities' baseball parks both have a retro feel.

If the Cowboys stadium is approved, both cities would have football venues that opened more than five years after the baseball stadiums debuted in areas that city officials wanted to redevelop.

Baltimore's football stadium helps bring traffic to bars and other businesses downtown throughout the year, rather than just during the baseball season of April to September. It also spawned some interesting side jobs.

On football game days, Farshad Rad, 39, shuts off the gas pumps at his Mobil station across the street from Oriole Park. Rad makes more money parking cars on his lot for $20 apiece, he said. He added that he's glad the two stadiums were built next to each other.

"It's really brought life to the city," he said. "We really enjoy being between both stadiums."

Cincinnati recently built football and baseball stadiums about five blocks apart along its riverfront at the edge of downtown. Plans call for a mixed-use development of retail, housing and hotels to develop atop a vast, two-story parking garage between the two stadiums.

Having two nearby stadiums makes it easier to draw traffic to the area, said Shawn McCoy, director of sports venue entertainment for Cincinnati-based Jack Rouse Associates, which helped the Reds baseball team plan its stadium amenities.

"The goal is to create more revenue, to be more of a destination attraction," he said. "It's all about critical mass."