UP may ban basketball goals

[brb1081]

UP council presses for ban on hoops

Residents slam proposal aimed at basketball goals

08:43 PM CDT on Wednesday, August 2, 2006

By KRISTEN HOLLAND / The Dallas Morning News

UNIVERSITY PARK – Hoops could be shot down in this wealthy community thanks to a proposed ordinance banning basketball goals in front yards.

The reason? To some city officials, they don't look too good.

That's the basis of a proposed University Park ordinance prohibiting portable and permanent basketball hoops. On Tuesday, council members postponed a decision on the ordinance until their Aug. 22 meeting so revisions could be made, said City Manager Bob Livingston.

Under the proposal, violators could be fined up to $2,000 a day.

Ridiculous. Silly. Stupid. Those are just a few comments hurled at the proposed law by homeowners with basketball goals.

Kimberley Sone said she doesn't have anywhere else to put her family's basketball goal.

"This is my driveway, and that's where it would be," Mrs. Sone said, looking out her front door toward the hoop. "I don't have a garage. Our back yards are too small to play in."

"Not everyone likes soccer," she added. "Some like basketball."

The ordinance the Planning and Zoning Commission and city staff originally recommended would have allowed residents to keep portable basketball goals in their front yards for up to 30 days a year. Council members wanted none of that, though.

They went back and forth for about 15 minutes at their Tuesday meeting on whether to allow swings, soccer goals and basketball goals in front yards at all. Some wanted to allow them certain months of the year, others only during daylight hours.

Portable soccer goals and badminton nets were deemed allowable because they could be moved inside every night. So were one-seat swings, provided they don't swing into the street.

Trampolines and basketball goals weren't as lucky.

"It's just not as pleasing to the eye," Mayor Blackie Holmes said about the goals.

The ordinance would probably not keep kids from playing basketball outside.

Residents with alley access or driveways that extend behind their homes can move the basketball goals there.

And kids can play in nearby Highland Park whenever they want. Susan Millet, who lives a block south of Mrs. Sone, but in Highland Park, said children from all over play basketball in her front yard because it's safer than playing in the alleys. Highland Park doesn't regulate basketball goals.

Mrs. Millet said so many kids show up that she and her husband put up a chain net because they were going through too many mesh ones.

Jack Campbell, 12, was stunned to hear that he may not be able to use his basketball goal anymore.

The Highland Park Middle School student spends an hour or two a day shooting hoops in front of his family's University Park home. He said he likes playing there because it's easier to start pickup games than if he was shooting hoops in the back yard.

Big sister Kate, 14, said, "Are you serious?" when told about the proposed ordinance.

She said there isn't anywhere else to put the hefty black-bottomed stand. "We have a really big back yard, but it's all grass," she said.

Anne Campbell, Jack and Kate's mom, said she has no clue what the family would do with the goal, which was a Christmas present for Jack several years ago. She said kids up and down the block use it.

"We're not going to put a full-regulation basketball court in our back yard," Mrs. Campbell said. "Our neighbor did that. This is more, kind of, for play."

Mr. Holmes had little sympathy.

"They're going to have to find somewhere else to play basketball," he said.

E-mail kholland@dallasnews.com

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This city council obviously has too much time on their hands. Maybe they should spend some of it helping the surrounding city fix its problems.

[ksig121]

I thought HOA's regulated such things. I'm sure a basketball goal in a neighbor's front yard doesn't reduce property values that much. Do any of the Parkies on the forum have any insight on this?

[tamtagon]

UP council presses for ban on hoops

"It's just not as pleasing to the eye," Mayor Blackie Holmes said about the goals.


That's messed up.

[Agnus Dei]

I see a distinct difference between basketball nets (which bring children and/or families outdoors for physical activity) and junked up cars sitting dormant in a driveway.

[VectorWega]

"I don't have a garage. Our back yards are too small to play in."

Here's the real issue. Perhaps you should have purchased a home with a back yard and a garage or just stop living beyond your means.

[Columbus Civil]

I was amused that UP's mayor's name is Blackie.

[Milkman Dan]

When Basketball goals are outlawed, only outlaws will have basketball goals.

[trolleygirl]

I wonder what kinds of people are pushing for their elected representatives at City Hall (or, more appropriately, the Town Council) to ban bastekball goals? Probably some old curmudgeuons who are sick to death of having to drive around all those dern kids playing in the street? In my neighborhood, kids pull their goals literally onto the street and when cars come by, the street is too cluttered with kids that one can hardley maneuver around them. So instead of actually talking to their neighbors, they want a complete ban.

Maybe the real problem here is that UP people have too many kids. They just can't stop making all those babies and they all need a place to recreate eventually.

But seriously, when did we become such a back-yard nation? Used to be, people hung out in their front yards, cooked-out in their front yards, played with their kids in their front yards, swung on tree swings in their front yards, waved at neighbors from their front yards. Now it seems- and I blame the alley for this- that we think these activities belong in the backyard, relegating the front yards to nothing more than dectorative lawns. Front yard activity has always been a signal of a good, strong, healthy and unified community.

But maybe it's a sort of ethnic bias......... I've noticed that a lot of my Latino neighors use their front yards for cooking out and even watching football games, playing dominoes or passing the football. And yes, basketball. My Greek neighbors and Black neighbors do too. There's just more activity going on and more people to see and say hi to in the front than in the back. And they always seem like happy, approachable people when you see your neighbors in the front yard. Like they're more secure, more friendly and having a better time than anyone else. I've never thought of dragging my cooker out to the front driveway and cooking there. But I'm white.

[brb1081]

Probably some old curmudgeuons who are sick to death of having to drive around all those dern kids playing in the street?
Actually, the "old curmudgeuons" are much more likely to have to drive around kids playing soccer or roller hockey in the street. Those goals aren't restricted, however, under the proposed ordinance.

[VectorWega]

Unfortunately the street is not part of the front yard. More than likely a talk with the neighbors would have no result in regards to the stupid basketball goals in the street.

There are many communities in the US where neighbors hang out in the backyard and still know each other because they have open backyards. Here, everyone has a privacy fence up.

BTW, if I had to choose, I'd rather have a privacy fence than talk to my neighbors.

[mjblazin]

Why is this a Dallas City Issue? Unlike our city council, the UP Town Council is well-informed, experienced, and reacts to citizen feedback. If the UP citizens want/don't want to ban hoops on mobile poles, they'll let their reps know. That's how democracy works: people get to be different and odd.

No, our City Council debates how to avoid triskaidekaphobia when organizing our bond packages. Please!! We have no business casting aspersions on any other jurisdiction's deliberations.

[Bryant]

Oh. My.

This proposal is totally stupid. I might see a restriction on the number of goals you have, but a ban on them altogether? Ridiculous, immature, and self-defeating.

[hamiltonpl]

Yeah, it is strange. I'd certainly hope they change their mind on this one.

I think a 5,000 square foot house on a 7,000 square foot lot is a lot uglier than a basketball goal in somebody's front yard.

University Park / Highland Park don't have homeowner's associations. But the city councils' have so little to do, they spend their time on stuff like this.

However, Mjblazin has a good point. If you don't live there, don't be too concerned about it. It's up to them to decide how they want their city to look.

That was a sensible, reasonable comment. It obviously has no place in a discussion regarding the Park Cities!

They're racist.

Woodrow Class of '69 Rocks!

[kenc]

Sounds like the Park Cities to me.

[VectorWega]

They need to restrict the number of cars in the streets. Many of those neighborhood streets are more cluttered with cars than a cookie cutter suburban KB Home development. Personally, if I lived in a million dollar home it wouldn't be one whose lot is only 70ft wide, and I certainly wouldn't stand for being on a street where only one car can pass at a time.

[Random Traffic Guy]

Street parking is great for reducing speeds and traffic volumes. Means that just the local residents will tend to use it. I was out in Southlake and they were shocked, shocked to think they should park on the street. A 30' residential street with people parked at intervals means slow traffic and a neighborhood feel. A 30' street with no obstacles means very wide lanes that lets people feel comfortable at 45MPH...

[Columbus Civil]

That's why it's called the Park Cities.

[VectorWega]

Street parking is great for reducing speeds and traffic volumes. Means that just the local residents will tend to use it. I was out in Southlake and they were shocked, shocked to think they should park on the street. A 30' residential street with people parked at intervals means slow traffic and a neighborhood feel. A 30' street with no obstacles means very wide lanes that lets people feel comfortable at 45MPH...

Things such as speed bumps and cul-de-sacs will do wonders too. (not to mention police, which Park Cities has plenty of).

The reason for all the parked cars in the front of the houses isn't because they want to slow down traffic. I also don't believe their intent is to make themselves feel like they live in the ghetto, or even that they just enjoy parallel parking that much. The real reason is that they don't have enough room to park elsewhere.

BTW, even if I'm only going 20 mph in my little Lotus, and a stupid kid pops out from behind one of those cars and I hit him, it's still going to hurt...bad.

[Insidetheloop]

They need to restrict the number of cars in the streets. Many of those neighborhood streets are more cluttered with cars than a cookie cutter suburban KB Home development. Personally, if I lived in a million dollar home it wouldn't be one whose lot is only 70ft wide, and I certainly wouldn't stand for being on a street where only one car can pass at a time.

University Park does restrict parking in many areas. For instance, within a 4 block radius of SMU you must have a special parking permit to park on the street.

Streets are no more crowded in UP than they are in Lakewood or the M-Streets. Except during football games.

[trolleygirl]

Why is this a Dallas City Issue? Unlike our city council, the UP Town Council is well-informed, experienced, and reacts to citizen feedback. If the UP citizens want/don't want to ban hoops on mobile poles, they'll let their reps know. That's how democracy works: people get to be different and odd.

No, our City Council debates how to avoid triskaidekaphobia when organizing our bond packages. Please!! We have no business casting aspersions on any other jurisdiction's deliberations.

Please tell me that you're a blonde woman, over 5' 6"........with blue eyes. ;)

Beacuase f you are then will you please marry me??????

I LOVE YOU!! triskaidekaphobia??? You've been reading the local news!

[Insidetheloop]

Rumor is now that the push to ban basketball goals in front yards has very little to do with play equipment and more to do with an anti-McMansion lobby. In the Park Cities the setback variances are such that new McMansion homes built on teardown lots must have the same setback as the original home in most cases. This then requires new homes to be built deep into the lot, back to the alley almost. Leaving little or no room for a backyard play area.

One may note that the outdoor, temporary basketball goal is a near exclusive item of a University Park McMansion and is rarely found at an older home. Driving and running around this weekend, I noticed this to hold true. The only homes I saw with portable goals in the front yards were McMansions.

It's believed that this ordinance change was brought to the table of the UP City Council so that debate could be opened about changing the way new home construction is handled in the city.

It will be interesting to see if this holds true.

[Bryant]

Clever!

[warlock55]

Things such as speed bumps and cul-de-sacs will do wonders too. (not to mention police, which Park Cities has plenty of).

The reason for all the parked cars in the front of the houses isn't because they want to slow down traffic. I also don't believe their intent is to make themselves feel like they live in the ghetto, or even that they just enjoy parallel parking that much. The real reason is that they don't have enough room to park elsewhere.

BTW, even if I'm only going 20 mph in my little Lotus, and a stupid kid pops out from behind one of those cars and I hit him, it's still going to hurt...bad.

Speed bumps and cul-de-sacs cause other problems though. Speed bumps really have a negative effect on emergency response times, and cul-de-sacs can cause traffic congestion by reducing the number of ways people can travel to reach a destination. Cul-de-sacs harm pedestrian traffic too by making it a lot harder to walk places without running into dead ends.

There's also a big difference between hitting a person at 20mph and hitting a person at 35mph.

"The relationship between vehicle travel speeds and resulting pedestrian injury was reviewed... Results indicated that higher vehicle speeds are strongly associated with both a greater likelihood of pedestrian crash occurrence and more serious resulting pedestrian injury. It was estimated that only 5 percent of pedestrians would die when struck by a vehicle traveling at 20 miles per hour or less. This compares with fatality rates of 40, 80, and nearly 100 percent for striking speeds of 30, 40, and 50 miles per hour or more respectively."

from http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/pub/HS809012.html

[VectorWega]

"The relationship between vehicle travel speeds and resulting pedestrian injury was reviewed... Results indicated that higher vehicle speeds are strongly associated with both a greater likelihood of pedestrian crash occurrence and more serious resulting pedestrian injury.

Thanks for the lesson in common sense that I didn't need. Common sense also dictates that there is a correlation between driver visibility and pedestrian's being hit but there's no need for a study to be done on that either.

BTW, many times when there are cars coming both ways, and only enough room for one car at a time, one car will stop and the other will speed up (out of courtesy) in order to get past the obstacles faster. This is safe?

Regardless, the reason there are so many cars on the streets in the park cities has nothing to do with pedestrians safety and everything to do with the residents not having enough space to store their cars on their property.

During my entire time in the US, I've lived on cul-de-sacs and I personally wouldn't have it any other way due to the many advantages of a cul-de-sac.

Most pedestrians in the park cities are those that are exercising or "going for a walk" (not to anywhere in particular). Cul-de-sacs don't hurt that.

[warlock55]

Thanks for the lesson in common sense that I didn't need. Common sense also dictates that there is a correlation between driver visibility and pedestrian's being hit but there's no need for a study to be done on that either.

BTW, many times when there are cars coming both ways, and only enough room for one car at a time, one car will stop and the other will speed up (out of courtesy) in order to get past the obstacles faster. This is safe?

Regardless, the reason there are so many cars on the streets in the park cities has nothing to do with pedestrians safety and everything to do with the residents not having enough space to store their cars on their property.

During my entire time in the US, I've lived on cul-de-sacs and I personally wouldn't have it any other way due to the many advantages of a cul-de-sac.

Most pedestrians in the park cities are those that are exercising or "going for a walk" (not to anywhere in particular). Cul-de-sacs don't hurt that.

You're welcome. Always happy to be of service. I'm not sure what the correlation would actually be between visibility and vehicle pedestrian accidents. Good visiblity might encourage reckless behavior like people running across interstates. The real benefit in terms of the parked cars are that they encourage caution and slower speeds. You're correct that it isn't the reason people are parked in the streets in the park cities, but at least it has some positive advantages too.

In your annecdote about passing cars, that's probably true in as least as many cases as it isn't.

Cul-de-sacs do have a lot of advantages, and including pedestrian easements at the closed end can usually address the pedestrian issue, although it stil hurts street connectivity. In the park cities, maybe the people aren't walking anywhere in particular because all the cul-de-sacs make it hard to actually get anywhere? ;)

[CityLove]

warlock, I thought your information was interesting and helpful. I appreciate your contribution to the discussion. Add to that the fact that you included a link to the source you cited, and I found it to be an informative post. I never knew the fatality rate increased that much in relation to speed.

[mikedsjr]

Culdesacs are great for the kids. When I was young, I would go to my cousin's house and play in the street all day long. You didn't have to worry about cars and it was the biggest play area around.

[Lakewooder]

How "Knot's Landing"!