Near East Dallas: New Henderson Ave. Developments

[Lakewooder]

I'm going to a meeting tonight to study an overlay for Cochran Heights. I suspect we are going to have to concentrate on saving the Dilbecks on the north ends of Pershing, Milam, Alcott and Homer and probably exclude everything else. A lot of blocks have already been lost and I don't think there's much chance anyone to the south and east will organize, although I have heard some single-family residents on Moser are concerned. I'm not sure what the zoning is there...

BTW, Andres has put up a huge sign at the old Safeway/Minyard/Carnival site, I think it said 3 acres for sale, lease or development plus it mentions the square footage of the building --- will have to take another drive-by...

If the Henderson redevelopment goes forward, I would think that the McMansion boom will continue, because it opens up whole areas of cheaper 'lots' where the homes have no protection and it is doubtful that any will materialize.

[clipper]

It's not a question of 350 people a day moving here. What you want to know is how many of them can afford $600,000 plus houses and how many choices do they have in that price range. That's what impacts the overbuilding.

[Lakewooder]

Well if they are still willing to pay $400K or more for townhomes or those mega-duplexes, I would think a single family will command more -- I keep hearing this rule that the spec home is going to be priced three times whatever was paid for the lot. I imagine the 30-40 builders in the area can get some 'lots' for under $200K down Henderson way.

I know three 'lots' have sold on Alcott recently for new single family homes...and there are signs in front of a couple more listing the lot sizes. One is now being razed.

[Tnekster]

It's not a question of 350 people a day moving here. What you want to know is how many of them can afford $600,000 plus houses and how many choices do they have in that price range. That's what impacts the overbuilding.

Actually, it is since most of them are from California or the east coast. The talent drain from the coasts into the metro area continues and not all of them desire a place in Frisco. Based on the way I have seen this stuff develop in the past it seems to pick up and the lull at times but the overall trend has been to march forward even during down times. There is just way too much available land here and availavle redevelopment land here for things to get really overpriced the way they are in LA or SF. Even a $600,000 house can be a bargain for someone moving in from California.

[Lakewooder]

Went to CH overlay meeting last night, not much decided...the overlay is really only good for getting garages off the front and keeping the setbacks the same as the older houses in the block. To get a height restriction under the city maximum 30' (measured to mid roof) you have to get 10% (60%) more signatures. Otherwise you also have to pay a $2500 fee to the city to apply.

Looks like almost everything immediately to the south and east of Cochran Heights is zoned for townhomes or apartments, so it seems Perry and others will be going ahead soon. There will be very few restrictions on these areas -- overlays may only be implemented in single-family neighborhoods.

Also, there are several vacant homes about to go down on the north side of Henderson near Belmont...and it's four single-family homes about to go down in the 5000 block of Alcott.

[EastDallasLonghorn]

Thanks for the report Lakewooder - I'm glad to hear the vacant duplexes on the north side of Henderson at Belmont are going to be demo'd soon. I've heard rumors that someone is considering these corners for retail but I don't know if they have the zoning to support something other than MF residential. When I first moved to the east side 3 years ago Belmont was the definitive dividing line between English speaking West Henderson and Spanish speaking East Henderson. It’s amazing how blurred this line has become so quickly!

You mentioned the home owners on Moser (between Fuqua and Monarch) in a previous post as being interested in preserving the neighborhoods character. I live a block away from them and have attended several crime watch meetings at their homes. They are great people who are very passionate about seeing the neighborhood improve. Unfortunately, the houses on the north side of this block are the only houses (with very few exceptions) within a 3-4 block radius that have any architectural character worth preserving. I think they will be glad to see many of the residents of adjacent apartments pushed out of the area, but I don’t know how happy they will be to see three-story townhome developments take there place.

There are many blighted multi-family housing complexes in this area that I hope will be taken down in big chunks and redeveloped. I worry that the lack of a dominant architectural style will result in lots of new construction that doesn’t blend together effectively. I’d love to see someone come in and take the City Homes (pre-Centex) Uptown approach and establish a more modern architectural style for this area rather than doing the poorly executed craftsman inspired townhomes/duplexes with brick accents. The amount of land for sale between Henderson and Fitzhugh right now is absolutely staggering…

[KBilly]

........I live a block away from them and have attended several crime watch meetings at their homes. They are great people who are very passionate about seeing the neighborhood improve. Unfortunately, the houses on the north side of this block are the only houses (with very few exceptions) within a 3-4 block radius that have any architectural character worth preserving. I think they will be glad to see many of the residents of adjacent apartments pushed out of the area, but I don’t know how happy they will be to see three-story townhome developments take there place.
......…
I think they may eventually end up just like that tiny, block long oasis of stately Victorian and Craftsmen homes along Thomas, just north of Fairmont, in Uptown.... behind the old strip that Sfuzis used to rule in the early-mid 90s

They are surrounded to the south by Jefferson apts & Zsa-Zsa, and to the north by the densely packed mish-mash of State-Thomas condo-apt-ville.

Where no code goes, no style follows...

[Urban Legend]

I think that there are more exciting things about to happen on Henderson in the next 6-12 months than have happened in the last 30-40 years. And...contrary to many of your comments...I believe that the real estate players there have a neighborhood plan in mind...not a bunch of big box, national, see-it-on-every-corner, might-as-well-be-in-the-suburbs, retailers and restaurants. I think that the people making big moves in East Dallas see it for what it is, and for what we love it to be...a cool, eclectic place to live and have fun.

[tamtagon]

I think that the people making big moves in East Dallas see it for what it is, and for what we love it to be...a cool, eclectic place to live and have fun.

It'll turn into Uptown if all the poor people are pushed out.

[LakeRidge]

It'll turn into Uptown if all the poor people are pushed out.


I agree. We've already seen this happen in cities bigger than ours. For example, the Mission district in San Francisco has been gentrified nearly beyond recognition.

I think it is important for the city to require developers to include affordable housing in their development plans. Especially development plans that will replace affordable housing with not so affordable housing.

Finally, the thing I will hate to see change the most will be the loss of the 'come as you are' attitude the neighborhood has fostered.

[igotgirth]

It'll turn into Uptown if all the poor people are pushed out.


Good. I predict then my stuff will stop getting broken into and stolen.

[Thurloc]

I agree. We've already seen this happen in cities bigger than ours. For example, the Mission district in San Francisco has been gentrified nearly beyond recognition.

I think it is important for the city to require developers to include affordable housing in their development plans. Especially development plans that will replace affordable housing with not so affordable housing.

Finally, the thing I will hate to see change the most will be the loss of the 'come as you are' attitude the neighborhood has fostered.

I'm sorry, I thought we lived in America, this isn't a Socialist country. I'm not interested in low income housing, especially in my neighborhood. The "non English speakers" as you call them are a blight on the area, graffiti, trash, loud music, fiberglass truck accessories. Good riddance. I hope we get to keep Cuquitas though, I like that place. I cannot wait to see the bulldozers razing the crappy apartment complexes/drug dens/crime dens that are on/around Moser.

There is a house for sale East of Fuqua on Moser, we almost bought it and razed it to build a new one like the one next door. We bought near Vickery though.

I hope someone firebombs the house on the corner of Moser and Fuqua, the biggest eyesore in the area. When are they going to tear down Pollo Fiesta? I'm ready for the Henderson Revolution to begin.

[igotgirth]

[QUOTE=You mentioned the home owners on Moser (between Fuqua and Monarch) in a previous post as being interested in preserving the neighborhoods character. I live a block away from them and have attended several crime watch meetings at their homes. They are great people who are very passionate about seeing the neighborhood improve. Unfortunately, the houses on the north side of this block are the only houses (with very few exceptions) within a 3-4 block radius that have any architectural character worth preserving. I think they will be glad to see many of the residents of adjacent apartments pushed out of the area, but I don’t know how happy they will be to see three-story townhome developments take there place.

There are many blighted multi-family housing complexes in this area that I hope will be taken down in big chunks and redeveloped. I worry that the lack of a dominant architectural style will result in lots of new construction that doesn’t blend together effectively. I’d love to see someone come in and take the City Homes (pre-Centex) Uptown approach and establish a more modern architectural style for this area rather than doing the poorly executed craftsman inspired townhomes/duplexes with brick accents. The amount of land for sale between Henderson and Fitzhugh right now is absolutely staggering…[/QUOTE]


I live a rocks throw away as well. Some of the houses on Moser are worth preserving. The apartment complex across the street is one of the highest drug and crime spots in the city and need to be demolished. As for what they replace those with I don't personally care as long as it improves the area.

Further down Fuqua the 3 story town homes have already started. (good)

[2Legit2Quit]

I think the run of McMansions in East Dallas will soon be ending. Last night I drove through the neighborhoods between Matilda and Abrams Road and was shocked to see so many MacMansions with for sale signs - both new and used. A couple of years ago builders were selling these before finishing. Now I found three or four new ones per block that were unsold. Talk about a bubble.
This couldn't, of course, be due to a ripe market where more sellers have seen the price it would take for them to sell approached, and their correspondingly new willingness to enter the market, could it?

Nah, that couldn't be it.

[2Legit2Quit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I have just registered after reading for a couple weeks, but does the following basically sum up the sentiment on this thread?

One side wants to tear down and/or gut and rennovate much of the Henderson Avenue area, making it more appealing to people looking to move into the area, as opposed to those already there.

The other side wants to preserve the area of the city, complete with all of its illegals, unkept yards, houses in disrepair, crime, drug activity, and poor, unwashed masses. And, they wish to do this in the name of not bowing to the "elitist" folk that wish to build their "McMansions," preferring instead the almost shanty-like quality of the World War II-era houses that are falling down on most streets, instead. This environment apparently has some sort of "charm" to it.

Did I get that right? I want to make sure that I'm up to speed, here. Let me know. Thanks.

[tamtagon]

Did I get that right? I want to make sure that I'm up to speed, here. Let me know. Thanks.

I do not think you got it right.

[2Legit2Quit]

I do not think you got it right.
Then, by all means, please correct me. I want to make sure that I have the story straight before we go on.

Thanks for your help.

[igotgirth]

Did I get that right? I want to make sure that I'm up to speed, here. Let me know. Thanks.

Yeah thats about the sum of it. Welcome to the forum.

[tamtagon]

The "non English speakers" as you call them are a blight on the area, graffiti, trash, loud music, fiberglass truck accessories. Good riddance. I hope we get to keep Cuquitas though, I like that place. I cannot wait to see the bulldozers razing the crappy apartment complexes/drug dens/crime dens that are on/around Moser.

There is a house for sale East of Fuqua on Moser, we almost bought it and razed it to build a new one like the one next door. We bought near Vickery though.

I hope someone firebombs the house on the corner of Moser and Fuqua, the biggest eyesore in the area. When are they going to tear down Pollo Fiesta? I'm ready for the Henderson Revolution to begin.

If you feel that way about some people, then some of them probably feel the same way about you. Why wouldnt you expect any neighborhood to resist encroachment from another?

[tamtagon]

Then, by all means, please correct me. I want to make sure that I have the story straight before we go on.

Thanks for your help.

Seems like something you will have to work out for yourself.

[2Legit2Quit]

Seems like something you will have to work out for yourself.
Well, then, from what I can tell, you simply don't agree with me, and therefore you have stated that I'm wrong.

Which, also from what I can tell, is the general sentiment in here for the side that favors maintaining the neighborhood as-is, rather than allow it to be improved, rebuilt, and made to attract new residents.

Should you have more support for your disagreement, then by all means post it. Otherwise, I'll have to assume that you disagree, but that you do so irrationally because you just don't like what is happening, despite the fact that you objectively know it to be improvement on the whole.

[2Legit2Quit]

If you feel that way about some people, then some of them probably feel the same way about you. Why wouldnt you expect any neighborhood to resist encroachment from another?
I'm sorry, but this smacks of the "I know you are, but what am I?" school of retort.

Perhaps you will next use the famed "I'm rubber, and you're glue..." approach?

I see that you have a great number of posts on this forum, but in that I would also expect that you would include something more substantial in them. Or, have you simply built up that number with gems such as this?

I don't mean to intentionally single you out, as you hardly seem alone in this, but I suppose this post is what it is in that regard. I honestly am not trying to just start fires, but I would hope that this discussion could be more substantial, especially from the opposition to the opinon that the area is sorely in need of rennovation.

[tamtagon]

The other side wants to preserve the area of the city, complete with all of its illegals, unkept yards, houses in disrepair, crime, drug activity, and poor, unwashed masses. And, they wish to do this in the name of not bowing to the "elitist" folk that wish to build their "McMansions," preferring instead the almost shanty-like quality of the World War II-era houses that are falling down on most streets, instead. This environment apparently has some sort of "charm" to it.

Personally, I am very comfortable in this sort of "charm," and that's why I dont want it eliminated.

[2Legit2Quit]

Personally, I am very comfortable in this sort of "charm," and that's why I dont want it eliminated.
Are you honestly saying that you would prefer a crime- and drug-ridden neighborhood, made up in large part by illegal immigrants and other incredibly poor people, often sharing the small, unkept houses among multiple families to one that is made up of nice, new construction or rennovated houses, free of crime and drugs?

Excuse me for asking this, but is it because you could not afford to live in such a neighborhood? Because, I can honestly not see another reason for this attitude.

I can understand not wanting to see a neighborhood change hands, I guess, should you offer some sort of support for it, but the fact that you state your comfort in this environment baffles me. Should that be the case, I can send you a list of many other parts of the Dallas metroplex where you can find crime, drugs, illegals, the poor, and down-and-out housing, leaving this one for those who are trying to upgrade it from that desitution.

[LakeRidge]

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I have just registered after reading for a couple weeks, but does the following basically sum up the sentiment on this thread?

One side wants to tear down and/or gut and rennovate much of the Henderson Avenue area, making it more appealing to people looking to move into the area, as opposed to those already there.

The other side wants to preserve the area of the city, complete with all of its illegals, unkept yards, houses in disrepair, crime, drug activity, and poor, unwashed masses. And, they wish to do this in the name of not bowing to the "elitist" folk that wish to build their "McMansions," preferring instead the almost shanty-like quality of the World War II-era houses that are falling down on most streets, instead. This environment apparently has some sort of "charm" to it.

Did I get that right? I want to make sure that I'm up to speed, here. Let me know. Thanks.

Listen, we all want to relocate all the poor people and "illegals" far away from us. They are unwashed, they drive domestic vehicles, and they don't maintain their homes like I think they should. Let's do everything we can to move this element of society out of our eyesight. I mean, that's what South Dallas is for, right?
I'm sick of my kids asking me why everyone is walking around when it's so hot out.

Outta sight, outta mind. Instead of addressing societies problems let's relocate them. It's easier. All you have to do is avoid 'bad' parts of town and you can live in comfort and go to church on Sundays, all without having uncomfortable thoughts about the impact of your lifestyle on the world.

Neighborhood Associations and Shiny New houses for everyone!!



It is ironic when people that support the construction of McMansions also complain about the upkeep of another's home or yard. It's their property. Shouldn't they be allowed to let it slide if they want? If there is freedom to build large zero lot line homes shouldn't there also be freedom to have a trans-am in the front yard? Your neighbors don't like the way your house looks. They think it will harm the 'charm' of the area. You don't like the way unkept yards and houses in disrepair look. Why do you feel you have the right to impose your values upon your neighbors while your neighbors do not have the right to impose their values upon you?

[igotgirth]

The other side wants to preserve the area of the city, complete with all of its illegals, unkept yards, houses in disrepair, crime, drug activity, and poor, unwashed masses. And, they wish to do this in the name of not bowing to the "elitist" folk that wish to build their "McMansions," preferring instead the almost shanty-like quality of the World War II-era houses that are falling down on most streets, instead. This environment apparently has some sort of "charm" to it.

Personally, I am very comfortable in this sort of "charm," and that's why I dont want it eliminated.

You are comfortable with "illegals, disrepair, crime," and "drug activity"?

[tamtagon]

despite the fact that you objectively know it to be improvement on the whole.

Objectively, and professionally, I do not think eliminating this:

the area of the city, complete with all of its illegals, unkept yards, houses in disrepair, crime, drug activity, and poor, unwashed masses. And, they wish to do this in the name of not bowing to the "elitist" folk that wish to build their "McMansions," preferring instead the almost shanty-like quality of the World War II-era houses that are falling down on most streets, instead. This environment apparently has some sort of "charm" to it.

is an improvement on the whole. The homogenization of East Dallas into the general characteristics of Uptown, Knox, ParkCities would be a disaster.

[2Legit2Quit]

Listen, we all want to relocate all the poor people and "illegals" far away from us. They are unwashed, they drive domestic vehicles, and they don't maintain their homes like I think they should. Let's do everything we can to move this element of society out of our eyesight. I mean, that's what South Dallas is for, right?
I think that you're waving your magic wand toward me in a rather care-free, yet threatening manner. I never said that moving them out of sight solves their problem. Instead, it does solve the problems associated with one, particular part of the city. As it stands, nothing is being done there.

I only mention the magic wand because I must assume that this is how you seek to solve the problems of poverty, despair, and illegal immigration, as you've offered nothing else in the exchange.

I have not once spoken of zero lot lines, nor of any "McMansion" or "shiny new house" designs. In fact, I even listed rennovating existing structures in the few mentions that I have made. That would more or less be in direct contrast to your assumptions toward me.

As for their walking or their vehicles, I would have no problem with them, did they not also coincide with parked vehicles being broken into by pedestrians and adding uninsured drivers to already dangerous roadways.

[igotgirth]

Objectively, and professionally, I do not think eliminating this:



is an improvement on the whole. The homogenization of East Dallas into the general characteristics of Uptown, Knox, ParkCities would be a disaster.


I disagree. Increasing the value of the area increases tax revenues for the city. In turn they can provide more social services which will go to help not the people in the McMansions but those that are poor. Furthermore I wouldn't think a rational person would consider it a disaster to create a safe, clean and drug free environment to raise their families and live. I consider all the areas you mentioned to be that or headed in that direction.

[tamtagon]

Are you honestly saying that you would prefer a crime- and drug-ridden neighborhood, made up in large part by illegal immigrants and other incredibly poor people, often sharing the small, unkept houses among multiple families to one that is made up of nice, new construction or rennovated houses, free of crime and drugs?

Pay attention - I said I am comfortable in that environment, I did not say I prefer it.

Excuse me for asking this, but is it because you could not afford to live in such a neighborhood? Because, I can honestly not see another reason for this attitude.

I can understand not wanting to see a neighborhood change hands, I guess, should you offer some sort of support for it, but the fact that you state your comfort in this environment baffles me. Should that be the case, I can send you a list of many other parts of the Dallas metroplex where you can find crime, drugs, illegals, the poor, and down-and-out housing, leaving this one for those who are trying to upgrade it from that desitution.

No, it is not because I could not afford to live in such a neighborhood.

If you honestly cannot see another reason for my attitude, then my resolve would only be stronger to protect the neighborhood.

[tamtagon]

I disagree. Increasing the value of the area increases tax revenues for the city. In turn they can provide more social services which will go to help not the people in the McMansions but those that are poor. Furthermore I wouldn't think a rational person would consider it a disaster to create a safe, clean and drug free environment to raise their families and live. I consider all the areas you mentioned to be that or headed in that direction.

Some people already living in East Dallas do not want higher taxes.

Drug free environment?!?! Where's that?

[2Legit2Quit]

No, it is not because I could not afford to live in such a neighborhood.

If you honestly cannot see another reason for my attitude, then my resolve would only be stronger to protect the neighborhood.
No, I get it. You, ostensibly, "care for the people."

However, in that, you are blinding yourself to the bigger picture. Their staying in that neighborhood does nothing but hurt the city, and it is already in rough shape in terms of crime statistics. I don't believe that I have heard advocacy to take away houses from well-kept, if still poor, neighborhoods anywhere. Those, while rare, do exist, and they do not share many characteristics other than income level with the one in question.

In this case, it is development for the sake of overall improvement, and that often results in groups having to disperse and/or relocate. Is that unfortunate for them? Sure. Is it a boon for the city, on the whole? I would argue that it is, for any number of reasons, which you seem to be ignoring for your own reasons.

[Boredkid]

I think we all need to realize that part of life is change. Neighborhoods change, its part of life. Sometimes its is for the better and some times not. It is up to the individual to decide that. This point has come up time over time, not everyone can be happy with the changes going on.

This debate is going no where. Its between people who already have their minds made up. No matter what one says its not going to change the beliefs of the other party.

[tamtagon]

No, I get it. You, ostensibly, "care for the people."

Well, I would not say that, but I do try to be nice to everyone, in general.

[2Legit2Quit]

Well, I would say that, but I do try to be nice to everyone, in general.
Then be nice to your city, and help support changes that will make one of its neighborhoods safer and filled with people who will contribute more, particularly in tax dollars.

As a side benefit to you, your property value should increase sufficiently to offset this minor inconvenience, and you can cash that check once the quiet engines of your neighbors' import cars finally get to you, as they come and go at awful hours of the day and night, like 7 AM and 6:30 PM. On their way to and from work.

[tamtagon]

I think we all need to realize that part of life is change. Neighborhoods change, its part of life.

word

This debate is going no where. Its between people who already have their minds made up. No matter what one says its not going to change the beliefs of the other party.

To be productive, the debate doesnt have to go anywhere; the discussion itself stands alone - until someone puts an eye out. What seems to be unproductive so far is an assumption of essence. I think building McMansions in East Dallas neighborhoods not protected by some sort of historic designation is just fine, but aggressive, purposeful, calculated plots to eliminate poor neighborhoods will only lead to more polarized socio-economic living conditions. If you want to force out the middle class from a city or area, eliminate the poorest neighborhoods.

[Thurloc]

Listen, we all want to relocate all the poor people and "illegals" far away from us. They are unwashed, they drive domestic vehicles, and they don't maintain their homes like I think they should. Let's do everything we can to move this element of society out of our eyesight. I mean, that's what South Dallas is for, right?
I'm sick of my kids asking me why everyone is walking around when it's so hot out.

Exactly. I suppose you'd like to move them in next door and have their children spray paint your fence, walk through your yard, drink 40's on the porch in lawnchairs and rev their engines or play loud music going down the street. You are right, I think you might be onto something here! We shouldn't want to get rid of this element, we should want to immerse ourselves in it!

Outta sight, outta mind. Instead of addressing societies problems let's relocate them. It's easier. All you have to do is avoid 'bad' parts of town and you can live in comfort and go to church on Sundays, all without having uncomfortable thoughts about the impact of your lifestyle on the world.

Let me guess, Robin Hood, let's rob the rich and feed the poor, right? I don't go to church, and I have no interest in the poor. They can get a job and make something of themselves like I did and my father did before me during the depression no less. Then they can come and live in my newly renovated neighborhood where they don't have to worry about getting shot by 16 year old gang members.

Neighborhood Associations and Shiny New houses for everyone!!

It is ironic when people that support the construction of McMansions also complain about the upkeep of another's home or yard. It's their property. Shouldn't they be allowed to let it slide if they want?

Devil's advocate or idiot? You decide.

[Lakewooder]

There can be compromise on these issues - I personally would like to see the single family homes by Dilbeck and others such as those on Moser protected (I don't know the zoning on Moser, but if it's already MF-2 or TH-3, they are sunk unless they can get a zoning change and/or some sort of CD/HD). I believe the Moser family was involved with the homes on that street and they were at one time owners of many properties in East Dallas.

There are also some homes along Capitol which I believe is called the Monarch Addition which should be preserved.

Beyond preserving the architecturally significant single family homes, I would like to see some of the duplexes and 4-6-8 plexes from the 1920s and 30s preserved.

No one is against construction of new single-family homes -- they just want them to fit into the neighborhood and not cause problems for their neighbors. I don't think that is asking too much.

I don't think there is any significant support for keeping the dumpy garden apartments foisted on us in the 1950s, 60s and 70s. IMO, those cannot go soon enough.

I would like to see the new developments be of high quality, with an urban aesthetic and unique qualities suitable to the history of East Dallas' aforementioned come-as-you-are attitude. It would be nice to have wider sidewalks with trees mandated for these... I don't really think there is any danger of the neighborhood being totally gentrified, although I could be wrong if these things really take off, as they have further up Henderson.

What I really don't want to see is another G.D. drive through bank and a lot of chain stores, big parking lots and franchise restaurants.

I hope it will be an area where the traditional mom-and-pop and trendier shops and restaurants of entrepreneurial sorts will be able to flourish.

Variety and funkiness would be nice, as well...there are bound to be some hold-outs which will keep things funky, if they can afford to pay the taxes!

[igotgirth]

Some people already living in East Dallas do not want higher taxes.

Drug free environment?!?! Where's that?

I will concede to the drug free statement I guess it could also extend to crime as well. So let’s just say lower amounts of drugs and crime.

As for higher taxes we all want more of the items that taxes go to pay for. Therefore we all want higher taxes. We just don't want them on us. Don't tax me tax someone else (usually that sentence is concluded with "the rich")

The bottom line is that this change is coming and small pockets of protesters will do their best and perhaps win a few battles but not many. Most of what they will succeed in doing is making it cost even more money to develop in the area due to newly imposed restrictions and other bureaucratic bs. However your war has already been lost you just don't know it or refuse to believe it. Higher property values are coming along with higher taxes, McMansions, gentrification and everything else this forum seems to despise.

[tamtagon]

Then be nice to your city, and help support changes that will make one of its neighborhoods safer and filled with people who will contribute more, particularly in tax dollars.

Well, as is true in most parts of town, the neighborhood is only unsafe to those who stand out like a sore thumb.

Contributing to the variety of lifestyle opportunity is more important, in my opinion, than the amount of tax dollars paid.

[2Legit2Quit]

Well, as is true in most parts of town, the neighborhood is only unsafe to those who stand out like a sore thumb.

Contributing to the variety of lifestyle opportunity is more important, in my opinion, than the amount of tax dollars paid.
I agree with this only to the point that it does not become a breeding ground for crime that spreads throughout and beyond a given neighborhood, which is a point that has been long passed with the Henderson area.

[carousel]

. . . is made up of nice, new construction or rennovated houses, free of crime and drugs?


Oh yeah, I forgot affluent people abstain from drug use. Please pass the grey poupon and a wee bump of cocaine, my good sir.

[Boredkid]

If you want to be surrounded by like minded people there is a cult down south texas that I am sure would not mind a new memeber or 2. Or you could just start your own and create your own community.

[clipper]

That's right. New construction = no crime. They don't even have police up in Frisco.

[igotgirth]

That's right. New construction = no crime. They don't even have police up in Frisco.

I will concede to the drug free statement I guess it could also extend to crime as well. So let’s just say lower amounts of drugs and crime.

Or do you not agree crime rates are lower in areas such as Frisco, HP, Park Cities etc.?

[2Legit2Quit]

Oh yeah, I forgot affluent people abstain from drug use. Please pass the grey poupon and a wee bump of cocaine, my good sir.
Perhaps I should have clarified to note that I was speaking, specifically, of the drug trade, involving, but not limited to dealing on the street, trafficking weight of heroin and cocaine, in particular, cooking crack-cocaine for distribution, operating drug houses, and all of the violence associated with the above.

You can turn your nose up all you'd like, but the reality is that the drug trade is anchored in destitute neighborhoods, not Highland Park, Uptown, or wherever else it is you're implying is of equal measure in the issue.

[2Legit2Quit]

If you want to be surrounded by like minded people there is a cult down south texas that I am sure would not mind a new memeber or 2. Or you could just start your own and create your own community.
I know that it must be difficult to differentiate when you're throwing stones from the high horse you have parked on the steps of your glass house, but I think that you have your issues confused.

[KBilly]

............

As a side benefit to you, your property value should increase sufficiently to offset this minor inconvenience, and you can cash that check once the quiet engines of your neighbors' import cars finally get to you, as they come and go at awful hours of the day and night, like 7 AM and 6:30 PM. On their way to and from work.
I see, people that work late shifts and early shifts, or any shift work for that matter, must be eliminated in your world. And new people to Henderson will only drive imports. Hmmmmmmmmm.... such facetious snark is exactly why it's easy to play such comments like a fine violin.

Also, it's nice to know that all those homeowners -- it's not all apts, you know -- are unwashed, illegals. Please, let us all in on your survey methods as to their bathing habits, for your data are truly stupefying in their completeness and objectivity.

[2Legit2Quit]

I see, people that work late shifts and early shifts, or any shift work for that matter, must be eliminated in your world. And new people to Henderson will only drive imports. Hmmmmmmmmm.... such facetious snark is exactly why it's easy to play such comments like a fine violin.

Also, it's nice to know that all those homeowners -- it's not all apts, you know -- are unwashed, illegals. Please, let us all in on your survey methods as to their bathing habits, for your data are truly stupefying in their completeness and objectivity.
That was a facetious comment. Humor. Which, by definition, is what a facetious comment is. Nothing more. If you'd read the posts beforehand, you might have realized that.

I'd explain further, but I know that it's all going to fall on deaf ears. I'm sorry that my attempt at lightening the mood, with a play on a previous comment, has rocked your world and upset you so badly. Please accept my humble apologies in this matter, dear sir.

Wow.

[clipper]

Crime rate is real low on the moon, too. But crime isn't the chief reason why I pick my neighborhoods. If crime were the main factor no one would live in NYC or LA.