Near East Dallas: New Henderson Ave. Developments

[FoUTASportscaster]

some of us kind of like McMansions


Enforce building standards and building of "like" properties. Don't force a specific style or era.


You realize you guys are in the minority and those in the neighborhood that existed before you raped it despise you. Cities are starting to pass ordinances to prevent this from happening. At some point, and apparently what you fail to understand, some people actually enjoy living with history, and not a glut of decandance that destroys a neighborhoods continuity.

[kenc]

You realize you guys are in the minority and those in the neighborhood that existed before you raped it despise you. Cities are starting to pass ordinances to prevent this from happening. At some point, and apparently what you fail to understand, some people actually enjoy living with history, and not a glut of decandance that destroys a neighborhoods continuity.
You are mean ....but I agree. The apartment building I live in was built in 1924 and I hope it survives the coming "East Dallas demolition bowl". Things are about to change. If I could control the city; it would be close to impossible to tear down anything built prior to 1950. I like it all.

[ParkCitiesTexas]

Sorry, but those of us who are building in the area with money, and aren't buying a run down prarie style eyesore and fixing small projects on the weekends while planting "scenic bamboo" in the backyard, some of us kind of like McMansions, with the carriage lights out front, the nice brick with stone accents and the wooden exposed beams.

I am very happy that Jerry's and Alfredo's are getting the boot. Jerry's was terrible and Alfredo's was overpriced. Hopefully we can get rid of the massage parlor, the eyesore house on the corner of Moser and Fuqua, the terrible apartments on Moser, you get the idea. The more money that moves in, the happier 99% of us who live here will be.

Oh, and I DON'T support a conservation district.



DITTO

[gean]

I just wish people would restore, renovate, remodel, and add on to some of the existing homes in these neighborhoods. If people have so much money, these options should be very appealing. Maintaining neighborhood history and character are innate responsibilities of each citizen, IMO. Doing so doesn't require moving into a shack, but it doesn't require scrapping everything either.
Well yea thats true , but in the other side of the coin is why doing a remodelation when you have bad neighborhood or renovate if you have a apt complex like avalon apt own by Mr David...(.on moser ) if you fix and you put spotless your property you may going to have people trying to break in your house.-- or is investment on a property that you dont know in the future you will get it back your money thanks for this apt complex and the people that lives there...

that is the true reality thats what we need something big like a post propertys or something similar to come a fixx this problem .-

:confused:

[UrbanHope]

I have toured a couple dozen houses in that area. Most have construction flaws and a built like crap. Only a couple of builders are building quality product.

I'm glad there's a Vickery CD. If you want new product, then new product will be available, apparently all through lower greenville and behind Henderson. If not, then you have the Vickery area or other conservation districts.

[igotgirth]

Yes, I'm content with my property value. When it goes up that just means I have to shell out more taxes. I would love for my property value to fall. The lower the better.


Clipper, "what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Homestead your property and shelter yourself somewhat from the tax increases, sit back enjoy the ride. When you're ready cash out a happy person. Stop being a clown.

[igotgirth]

You realize you guys are in the minority and those in the neighborhood that existed before you raped it despise you. Cities are starting to pass ordinances to prevent this from happening. At some point, and apparently what you fail to understand, some people actually enjoy living with history, and not a glut of decandance that destroys a neighborhoods continuity.

Rape? whoa easy there sport.

I think a fire should be started and most everything south of Henderson all the way to Haskell should be burned and rebuilt. If people want "renovate, remodel, and add on to some of the existing homes in these neighborhoods" then great, good for them. I am glad they have the time, patience, and money for this. It’s hard enough building a home from scratch let alone rehab one.

As for north of Henderson, specifically Vickery District there are plenty of original rehabed homes that will not be torn down so who cares if someone builds something else. Get out of the way of progress.

Despite what you may think I like some prairie style homes very much. However, I would never force my neighbor to build one.

[clipper]

I own my house. I plan on living in it for a long time. I don't plan to borrow against it. i don't need it as a financial asset. It is shelter. Explain then why having it's value increase helps anyone but the tax man?

[Lakewooder]

GotGirth - your kibbitz coming in and insulting a longtime, respected member of this forum, Clipper (who adds invaluable knowledge about the history of Dallas -- something about which you know little nor care to learn), is not appreciated and is indeed considered an affront to East Dallas by this native.

I think most on this forum are eager to see a quality redevelopment of this stretch of Henderson, while keeping a bit of its quirkiness. Also, we would mostly agree that some of the bad apartment complexes foisted on the area in the 1950s and 1960s should also be redeveloped. And like the commercial aspects, we are for high-quality home renovations and new homes which fit the rather liberal guidelines of CDs and restoration of the more restrictive areas with HDs.

If you have issues with East Dallas, then you would really love to fight HOAs rampant around the country. We appreciate a bit of variety here, treasure eccentrics and mavericks, but we would like to see classic designs in new homes which will stand the test of time as have our Georgians, Colonials, Tudors, Italianate/Med/Spanish, Craftsmen Bungalows and Prairie Four-Squares for nearly 100 years. Architects and builders of these homes are still revered here decades after their deaths. Ever heard of the expression, "tried and true"?

It's in Woodrow's fight song and we believe in such anachronisms, ideals and credos unlike the disposable suburban world of the "Metroplex".

[clipper]

Everyone needs to remember that real estate means many things to people. Until the 1970s when we had hyperinflation, no one thought of housing as an investment. It was a place to live and raise your family and if you didn't LOSE value you were doing great. Then the real estate and housing industry sold America on the notion that a home is your best investment. In many cases it can be. But I also read about fixed income people being forced out of their houses because they can't afford rising taxes. The investment isn't paying off so well for them.
I agree that much of East Dallas will be redeveloped over the next few years. But while the suburbs are busy building faux traditional neighborhoods with fake "historic" districts, will Dallas profit by tearing down its older homes and buildings? The architects who plan all these neo urban towns in the burbs come to the old neighborhoods for their ideas.
I think that conservation districts and historic tax benefits will save some of the old housing stock and buildings in Dallas that are worth keeping.
If new construction preserves the feel of the old neighborhoods then it adds to the traditional fabric.
But I see no benefit from throwing up faux English and French McMansions that look more at home in Frisco or Flower Mound. And I'll admit I don't understand why a middle-aged couple with no children needs a 5,000 square foot house. Of course, if they want all that space they are welcome to it - as long as it doesn't destroy the historic character for the surrounding neighborhood. Good architects know how to make that fit. Most of the McMansions being slammed up in East Dallas are designed by homebuilders working out of the back of their Suburbans.

[Milkman Dan]

I've read all these comments and see valid points of both sides. I really don't want to get into it too much so I'll just offer this little tidbit and I think EVERYONE can agree on this point: the architect / designer and builder of the "Epic Homes" development on Henderson should be dragged out into the street, have bricks thrown at their heads, and should then be set on fire. Then we should put out the fire after 20 seconds and a NEW, larger fire be built on their already-smoldering soon-to-be corpses. That ..... home/townhome/whatever is the absolute definition of "visual abortion" and I can only pray nightly that a gigantic sinkhole swallows it up and washes it away via an underground creek.

THAT type of utter crap is the reason people are afraid of much of the new construction coming into E Dallas.

Now, carry on with the regularly scheduled messageboard flame war.

[kenc]

Wow!!, you must really hate Epic Homes. I live @ Ross & Henderson, ( Rowena Street), and am not sure which building you are talking about, but I better drive down there right now and check it out.

[Lakewooder]

As I have stated many times, I don't know anyone who is against all teardowns/new construction.

As you say, the Epic stuff is crappy looking. I have also spotted an Epic sign over on Hudson between Swiss Ave. Historic District and Lower Greenville where a lot of new townhomes are going up. I think this is going to be a single-family.

One would have hoped that the first new construction along Henderson would have been nice and would set a precedent for better things to come. Epic may instead have a deleterious effect.

We've been through that before with the apartments built in the 1950s and 60s!

[kenc]

Rape? whoa easy there sport.

I think a fire should be started and most everything south of Henderson all the way to Haskell should be burned and rebuilt. If people want "renovate, remodel, and add on to some of the existing homes in these neighborhoods" then great, good for them. I am glad they have the time, patience, and money for this. It’s hard enough building a home from scratch let alone rehab one.

Despite what you may think I like some prairie style homes very much. However, I would never force my neighbor to build one.

Burn down Henderson Ave.? whoa easy there sport.

[Lakewooder]

To speak to Clipper's post about not wanting his home to increase in value: If you love your home and your neighborhood and you don't plan to move out until you are in a casket (and believe it or not there are many who feel that way around here), you would naturally want to not be driven from your sanctum sanctorum by high taxes.

[clipper]

And even if you are not driven out, who likes paying more taxes?

[kenc]

Right, unless you know your tax $$ is going to be spent on your neigborhood. How do you go about starting a TIF anyway?

[WhiteRockFan]

I live further east in the Casa Linda area of East Dallas. Our McMansions are going up in the Little Forest Hills Neighborhood but, luckily, most that I have seen appear to fit in - if for no other reason than the lot size accomodates the larger home. What I can not stand to see are these homes that take up 80% or more of the lot size and are 3 stories tall. They are obscene and totally out of place/character. A good friend on mine who lives in the Park Cities expanded on their ranch style home but did so horizontally (they did not go up) and put a pool in at the same time. They have just discovered the home immediately next door to them will be torn down to make room for a 3 story home that will bump up right next door to them. The plans call for the new home's game room - located on the 3rd floor - to look out over my friend's pool area. There goes the privacy they enjoy now!
One of the main reasons I love the area I live in is that I do not look out my bedroom window directly into my neighbors window/wall. In addition, I don't have a house that looks just like the one 4 houses down from me - nor would I want to!

[Lakewooder]

But think of it from the neighbor's perspective: the third story makes it much easier to look down their noses at others!

[Lakewooder]

The erstwhile Jerry's Supermarket area has been ringed with construction fencing and an Andres Real Estate lease sign has gone up touting "The Shops on Henderson" with a completion date of January 2008, I believe..

[EastDallasLonghorn]

Grocery sites get new life

Henderson Avenue to be address for eateries and retailers

12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, July 27, 2006

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

A bedraggled stretch of Henderson Avenue in East Dallas is getting a makeover.

Andres Real Estate has purchased two aging supermarkets on Henderson between North Central Expressway and Ross Avenue with plans to redevelop the property.

Work is about to begin on the first project, the former Jerry's Supermarket at Henderson and Capitol Avenue.

The 20,000-square-foot building – constructed in 1964 – will be a shopping center for restaurants and boutique retailers.

The developers have also purchased the nearby vacant Carnival supermarket and three acres of land for redevelopment, according to Marc Andres.

"I've had 120 restaurants and retailers that have already called me in the last 30 days, and we just put the sign up," Mr. Andres said.

"There is a lot of demand for the product we are going to have."

Called the Shops on Henderson, the project in the old Jerry's Supermarket will include a new exterior for the building.

Bernbaum Magadini Architects of Dallas designed the redo.

The Andres deals are the latest in redevelopments that have been spreading east along Henderson from North Central.

Along with the new retail, several apartment, townhouse and single-family home developments are underway.

"There are a number of properties in the midst of redevelopment on Henderson," said Mr. Andres, who has other real estate under contract.

"Henderson is only one mile long and a direct shot to the Park Cities."

Andres Real Estate has been investing in the neighborhood since the 1970s.

[EastDallasLonghorn]

The erstwhile Jerry's Supermarket area has been ringed with construction fencing and an Andres Real Estate lease sign has gone up touting "The Shops on Henderson" with a completion date of January 2008, I believe..

The sign actually says January 2007. Guess they are going to remodel the Jerry's rather than build from scratch, but I'm skeptical that the exisiting shell could functional well as shared retail/restaurant space...

[Tnekster]

Where is the Carnival site?

[EastDallasLonghorn]

Where is the Carnival site?

Between Lewis and Rowena on Henderson Ave. This is 2 blocks northwest of the intersection of Henderson and Ross. The existing Carnival building sits really far back in the block, with a huge field of parking in front of it...

[clipper]

http://www.theshopsonhenderson.com/

[gc]

^ Thanks clipper

[Lakewooder]

I have heard McQuaid of Premier Properties is also involved -- there's also something in the works on the north side of the street going down to the former Carnival, owned by Andres -- two properties have been bulldozed in the last couple of weeks. Not sure if McQuaid is involved in that or the apartments on Belmont...

Anyone know what is up ?

[Tnekster]

When they get to Ross I hope they turn right and start a makeover in that direction.

[Lakewooder]

Well, when this redevelopment is complete Henderson will basically merge with Lower Greenville, creating a new synergy for that area.

I've always thought Ross needed a grand plan -- if you look at it from Greenville down to downtown, it sort of has the same elevation drop as the Champs Elysee...

So, I can dream can't I?

But it would be nice to see Ross return to the prominence it had in the early 20th Century. There are a lot of school buildings but also a lot of dead retail and car lots which could easily be redeveloped with pedestrian-minded sidewalks and trees linking to downtown. And Mill Creek crosses Ross at Haskell, which is supposed to get some improvements even though the Boulevard has been shelved. Imagine a 'daylighted' Mill Creek with a few mid-rise and high-rise condos there...

[Lionel Hutz]

I don't intend to hijack the thread, but since we are talking about development on Henderson - what is happening with the old Barley House location? It has been bulldozed for a while but I haven't seen much going on there. Looks like some foundation work has been done (I think there are pipes and such exposed), but nothing has happened there for the longest time.

With respect to the Jerry's location, just curious to see the retailers going in there. The demographic in that area is crazy: 20-something $30k millionaires, upper-middle class 30-something professionals, and a big Hispanic population.

[Lakewooder]

With single-family teardown lots going for $275 (see my thread on "House next door torn down") and old apartments being demolished, I think the demographics are going to go 'up' really soon as far as what is desired by more upscale retailers and restauranteurs.

Also there is a big demographic of late 40s and 50s pioneers who have redone homes in Vickery Place and Cochran Heights. A lot of them came as early as the mid-1970s, but there was a big influx before the real estate bust of 1986.

[Tnekster]

The heart of little Mexico appears to me to be the corner of Capitol and Fitzhugh. I know they are already starting to tear things down in that general vacinity but figure this Henerdson redevelopment will really start to accelerate that move.

[gean]

McQuaid needs to stop holding hes propertys in order to a full redevelopment in henderson,fuqua and north garrett . if he still holding this apt complex and some of empty lots he has the development will not take the same effect.-

[Lakewooder]

Apparently he owns the whole block of Live Oak between Fitzhugh and Collett. The townhomes are just being built on the site of one former complex while the others still stand. He'd probably have better luck if he just went ahead and razed the others, so that everyone will see that change is coming to the area.

But, you gotta have those rents coming in to pay the taxes and to build the new stuff...so it's a bit of a dilemma.

I know I have had offers on my properties in that area and I have turned them down. Now that the Henderson thing appears to be taking off, perhaps I should wait until it materializes, but then that 's a gamble too...so perhaps McQuaid is in the same position, only with a lot more riding on the outcome.

[gean]

Apparently he owns the whole block of Live Oak between Fitzhugh and Collett. The townhomes are just being built on the site of one former complex while the others still stand. He'd probably have better luck if he just went ahead and razed the others, so that everyone will see that change is coming to the area.

But, you gotta have those rents coming in to pay the taxes and to build the new stuff...so it's a bit of a dilemma.

I know I have had offers on my properties in that area and I have turned them down. Now that the Henderson thing appears to be taking off, perhaps I should wait until it materializes, but then that 's a gamble too...so perhaps McQuaid is in the same position, only with a lot more riding on the outcome.

Well Thats True But it sucks

[EastDallasLonghorn]

From Steve Brown's column today...
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/columnists/all/stories/072806dnbusBrown.f5179e.html

"Fitzhugh apartments

One of the country's biggest apartment builders is working on an in-town Dallas deal.

Trammell Crow Residential has contracted to purchase a development site on Fitzhugh Avenue just east of North Central Expressway.

The location is a block from FirstWorthing's new Cityville rental community.

Crow Residential has already put in a zoning request for the apartment community it plans to build there."

This must be right across the street from the run down strip center with the Dollar Mart and Thai Noodle (really good cheap Thai food, worth checking out if you've never been).

It's been a big week for Near East Dallas development announcements!

[Lakewooder]

I wonder if these are older apartments going down...if so, does anybody know which ones? There are also some 'bedraggled' commercial properties there to borrow a word from Steve Brown.

The Trammell Crow name certainly ought to attract some other developers -- and if you drive up Fitzhugh and Bennett now from Ross to Central there seems to be some action, a few things have been torn down recently.

If this area gets some momentum going and nothing busts, then it will be a complete change and become a sort of more creative "Knox Park"/Uptown.

Now is the time to plan and make infrastructure improvements such as wider sidewalks, trees, parking and and streetscapes to avoid mistakes made in Uptown.

[kenc]

Now is the time to plan and make infrastructure improvements such as wider sidewalks, trees, parking and and streetscapes to avoid mistakes made in Uptown.

Yes, and lets continue a long standing East Dallas tradition of the neighborhood park; especially as density increases. The dog park at White Rock is always crowded.

[UrbanHope]

Almost every building in that corridor is for sale. Seriously. Everything. That whole area is going to be different. However, I dobt that the developers will handle it with class. Most just send 30 day notices and put poor people out on their a$$es.

I applaud development, but the way a lot of so-called developers conduct their business makes my stomach turn.

[Lakewooder]

Almost every building in that corridor is for sale. Seriously. Everything. That whole area is going to be different. However, I dobt that the developers will handle it with class. Most just send 30 day notices and put poor people out on their a$$es.

I applaud development, but the way a lot of so-called developers conduct their business makes my stomach turn.

In order to give a 30 day notice the tenants must be on a month-to-month and not on a long-term lease. So if they are all in that position and cannot get the landlord to sign a longer lease it would be logical for them to assume change is in the air. If they are on month-to-month, then rent increases can come with a 30-day notice from the landlord...so it behooves them to have a long term lease if rents are rising.

The downside for a landlord with all month-to-month leases is your cash flow cannot be assured because technically, everyone can move out at the end of the month (after they give a 30 day notice). This wouldn't seem to be a good position for a landlord if he is out trying to get construction loans, etc.

Of course, people can be bought out of their leases, too -- but that is their decision to make.

[Tnekster]

^There are currently very large tracts of formerly low income housing in several areas of the city that are disappearing almost overnight, anybody have any clue where everyone is moving to?

[gean]

^There are currently very large tracts of formerly low income housing in several areas of the city that are disappearing almost overnight, anybody have any clue where everyone is moving to?
They probably moving to the Avalon apt owns by Premier Property

[sasquatch69]

The area around Marsh and George Bush in Far North Dallas/Carrollton has seen a big influx in low-income residents in the past decade. There's definitely been a change in the types of residents in apartment complexes in that area, and crime is up, so that would be my guess as far as where some of the displaced low-income residents are headed.

[GuacaMohle]

New to this thread, but I've been enjoying it thoroughly. About where the low-income residents are transferring to.....hallelujah, that the suburbs (or at least the outskirts of Dallas) are seeing the influx if that's the case. I find it satisfying that they established these communities to escape the "unsavory" elements and now the trend is reversing. I work in Richardson where everyone lives in the nether-regions of the Metroplex in unsullied newly constructed communities and all-white schools, yet they bemoan a lack of cultural outlets. If people had never given up on community investment then the urban public school systems might never have become souless and they could enjoy their chic shopping, lattes and galleries at the same time! Now I hope these lily-white bastions begin to reflect a more diverse ethnic face with the cultural benefits that they can bestow -- as well as force the suburbanites to not sequester themselves behind gardenwalls and face up to civic responsibilities to care for a wider population than just Buffy and her cheerleader squad girlfriends.

[Tnekster]

The area around Marsh and George Bush in Far North Dallas/Carrollton has seen a big influx in low-income residents in the past decade. There's definitely been a change in the types of residents in apartment complexes in that area, and crime is up, so that would be my guess as far as where some of the displaced low-income residents are headed.

Fascinating.

[clipper]

I think the run of McMansions in East Dallas will soon be ending. Last night I drove through the neighborhoods between Matilda and Abrams Road and was shocked to see so many MacMansions with for sale signs - both new and used. A couple of years ago builders were selling these before finishing. Now I found three or four new ones per block that were unsold. Talk about a bubble.

[carousel]

I think the run of McMansions in East Dallas will soon be ending. Last night I drove through the neighborhoods between Matilda and Abrams Road and was shocked to see so many MacMansions with for sale signs - both new and used. A couple of years ago builders were selling these before finishing. Now I found three or four new ones per block that were unsold. Talk about a bubble.

There are a variety of factors causing all homes, not just McMansions, to remain on the market for prolonged periods of time.

[UrbanHope]

It's crazy, because builders are still running to the plan commission trying to rezone duplexes to build "4 on a lot attached houses (ugh!)" like Epic homes and others.

It seems like the Cochran Heights neighborhood and the Alcott/Fitzhugh neighborhod is going to be a total loss. I'm not against teardowns, but why the overbuilding?

[clipper]

I saw one builder that had three houses all mostly finished and unsold in the 6100 Block of Lakeshore. He wasn't the only one trying to sell either. He had signs in front of each house bragging about who his lender was. At some point the lenders will wise up or get these houses back and the jig is up.

[Tnekster]

I saw one builder that had three houses all mostly finished and unsold in the 6100 Block of Lakeshore. He wasn't the only one trying to sell either. He had signs in front of each house bragging about who his lender was. At some point the lenders will wise up or get these houses back and the jig is up.

Have heard this before, the jig was supposed to be up in 2000 too but it wasn't. 350+ people move the metro area every day and they need a place to live. Things may slow down but it is not going away.