Dallas needs a new destination

[heygene]

When visitors come to Dallas where do they go: Six Flags, Fair Park, West End maybe deep ellum, I can't think of too many other places. Dallas only has 4 shopping malls, (maybe that's why so many people go to the suburbs and shop). I think Dallas needs a new destination. Sure I love the Victory development, and the plans for the development downtown. But I feel that Dallas needs other places to go and do things, fun things, classy things. Don't get me wrong I am excited about the things that are happening in Dallas: the Arts District, West Village, Mockingbird Station. But sometimes when I visit other cities it just seems that they have more going on. And I hear all the time from outsiders saying how boring Dallas is.
My question is, if Dallas ever considers investing into a new destination, where would you think would be the best location. I feel the area along I-35 near the Grand Movie Complex is just ripe for development.

[JaeTex]

I'm all for development in Dallas, but it has to be smart development, not just for its own sake. I've always thought that one of our problems was not that Dallas didn't have enough but that it was too spread out. Deep Ellum, West End, Greenville Ave.,etc. all have something to offer but each essentially has to draw on its own. The parts are great but the whole would get us noticed if it was together or at least closer.

Depends on what you had in mind for I35 near the Grand. More car based big-box, separate building for restaurant and retail? I'm not going to boycott it, but... The AMC Grand has essentially killed restaurant row along I35 and Walnut Hill, what used to be a relatively lively area, now has some kind of auto mall or something and last time I looked some very empty restaurants. If this is a zero-sum game I'll let the Grand fight on its own.

Now I think (as mentioned in another thread somewhere here) that the Park Lane Dart station is ripe for development. But how to turn big boxes oriented towards 75 to more friendly development that allows pedestrian access from DART?

(Sorry to go on, but I'm new to the board, and happy to find a place to talk about such things w/o stares of indifference or bewilderment.)

[jsoto3]

the fate of dallas' desired reputation as a world-class city rests on the development of the trinity river corridor into a world-class park and related development that fronts directly onto it (being able to walk from the development into the park, i.e. nyc's central park + boston's charles river basin).

[GarrettCarey]

Okay, I agree with both of you....but what about this angle.
I think we would all agree that Dallas has a great number of assets, right? What about improving/popularizing the destinations we already have?

- Deep Ellum/Greenville Ave - these places are hoppin at night on the weekends. Why can't they become more attractive destinations during daylight hours or during the week? Improve the streets, the lighting and make it safe for everyone.

- West End - again West End is great, but let's get some more restaurants, shops, bars, down there. A Jazz or a Blues bar would fit in very nice in West End as well as a coffee shop.....that stayed open late.

- Arts District - the Arts District is great.....but everyone is trying to do the arts thing. I think the Nasher Sculpture Center will help us a lot....and the new Performing Arts Center....whenever it comes along. Dallas needs more public art, sculptures, etc

- West Village/Mockingbird Station - there is no argument that these are both phenomenal developments. I hope they both continue to thrive, grow, and become more dense in population.
-----------------------------------

Downtown Dallas IS the NEW DESTINATION!

Here are a few of my thoughts to make DT the next destination. Some of them are probably far fetched....but I can hope.

- Victory Development will do wonders......move forward with development already!
- Continued DT improvement (i.e. more trees, streets, lighting, public art, FOUNTAINS, safety, PLAZAS, restaurants/bars, retail, etc)
- Reunion Tower should be leveraged more!
- Improve the Dallas Aquarium and Zoo
- The Trinity Reflecting Pool.....if it ever happens....will be unbelievable....as well as the rest of the Trinity River Project
- The Farmers Market should be continually improved...it is awesome!
- If Main Street could become half as successful as Chicago's Magnificent Mile.....it would be an incredible milestone.
- An CENTRAL URBAN PARK.....need I say more?

the crazy ones....
- a TV series in Dallas
- a TV talk show hosted in Dallas
- Some movies that take place in Dallas.....TV TV TV.....it's all about the big screen

What kinds of INTOWN developments would make Dallas stand out more? What kind of development would get more attention?

I have rambled for too long......and I apologize for the unorganized thoughts. later

[heygene]

I agree with both Jsoto3 and Garrett Carey. I feel that Dallas has relied on it's old reputation too long. It's time that Dallas truly become a worldclass city. Our neighbors to the south(Houston) is killing us right now. But to be honest, with the potential already here we are not far behind.

[smontgomery]

One thing that I have noticed in the 3 months that I have lived here is the fact that the destinations here (outside of the few that you have mentioned) are basically determined by income level and/or age. What I mean is this: Besides a few of the shopping malls (Northpark and Galleria), people here don't interact outside of their socioeconomic groups. What makes cities like New York, DC, San Fran so interesting is the fact that you can walk down the street and meet anyone from any race/class/creed , whatever. That's not the norm here. The rules for Dallas are pretty simple: Find your niche and stay there. If you are somewhat 'hip' (or think you are), you head to Deep Ellum, yuppies stay uptown, or maybe Addison, and tourists head to the West End. Everyone else, head to Lower Greenville. People hang out with people like them, then hop in their cars and drive home. Not a good formula for a city looking to attract attention to itself.
There are also no large-scale parks which everyone in the city can go to...They're all located in individual neighborhoods (and they're puny!). That's what makes the Trinity River project so important. It gives something to a city with at natrual-beauty challenged landscape.

Where Houston and Fort Worth keep kicking Dallas in the teeth is the fact that they have everything more centralized, which makes it easier to know what's available. The Victory project / American Airlines center is definitely a step in the right direction. I hope that they don't put the next Cowboy's stadium (or any other sporting venue)in the middle of nowhere, like Texas Stadium, or even The Ballpark for that matter.
It's a shame how many Dallas residents don't know what this city has to offer. I know people who've never even HEARD of Bachman Lake! And they live in uptown Dallas! And people who pass by Mockingbird Station, but didn't realize that there was an entire development there.

This town has so much potential and I love it here (now that I've found my niche), but we have to make sure that we learn from our mistakes in the past, and think smart before the concrete gets poured. Otherwise Dallas will never get the clout that it deserves. Sorry about the rambling. Oh yeah, and Dallas needs to shake the ultra-conservative attitude.

"Common sense is not so common." -- Voltaire

[beakins]

Dallas needs to focus on creating or expanding its artificial cultural and aesthetic environment given this city's geographic position. For starters, the Trinity river development should be the primary focus for this community. If so, then ancillary projects such as bridge works and commercial development will follow. Architecture is key for the city. Outside of downtown, Dallas is generally known by many architects as the city with bland modernistic buildings. The city should be more aggressive in architectural standards-from high rises to roads and bridges. Two good examples are the Infomart and North Central Expressway. The river could become a national attraction and perhaps receive world recognition.

Another area that could undergo much improvement is the city zoo. Dallas and Houston both play second fiddle to Ft. Worth's nationally acclaimed zoo. This should be unacceptable. Another area that Dallas should focus on is a world class (large) Aquarium and have it built in downtown. Forget the utopian hopes of revitalizing Fair Park. Things won't change until the communities in the area change themselves. Not very PC but very true. As long as Dallas tries to work in Fair Park for inter city development the further the downtown core will be away from a world class look. By the way, Fair Park may be relatively close to downtown but how convenient is it to get to one place from another?

Lastly, Dallas should continue developing a world class museum Arts District. I think a Frank Gehry project, while tempting as it may be, would be a huge mistake for downtown. The reason? Modernity tends to look like yesterday's modernity real fast. Plus Frank's work is cold stark modernism. Dallas needs more structures that will be timeless. Say what you will in regards to Schwartz's arena, but it will certainly age better than what Reunion has. Some of the new development can be accomplished from Post Modernistic designs (a blend of styles or traditions) but most of it can be acheived with Baroque, Deco, Classicism, French Empire Revival, Greco Romanesque, Romantic Modernism, and Gothic styles, to name a few. It is safe to say that Dallas has plenty of modern buildings. And besides, we already have a modernistic symphony center, even though the actual performance hall looks back to other historical styles.

[jsoto3]

i am seeing some new names here. i have discussed some of these issues in another post. i have heard disappointingly little from the regulars and would like to hear what you new guys think. please take a look at this (http://pub50.ezboard.com/fthedallasmetropolisfrm4.showMessage?topicID=37.to pic) and tell me what's up!

[smontgomery]

Being a Boston 'nahtive' ( or at least spending half of my life there), I am deeply enthralled by the 'Big Dig' and its progress (www.bigdig.com). They are scrapping the Central Artery and placing the entire thing underground. While driving in and out of downtown Dallas, I have noticed one thing: The most successful part of town has no obstacles between it and downtown. I had actually been following the progress of Project Pegasus when I still lived in DC. However, up until recently, there were no updates on it. When I first moved here, I couldn't find Deep Ellum at first, because I kept getting lost under the overpasses ( and poor signing). I think that it's awesome that Dallas is going in that direction - it's crucial to bury and cover the freeway if there is going to be any kind of urban core cohesiveness. One thing that is interesting about Dallas (although I first noticed it in LA), and is not as common on the East Coast: the freeways have become the proverbial 'railroad tracks' that divide the ethnic neighborhoods. With such imposing structures being the demarcation line between neighborhoods, it makes that much harder to create diversity in a city.

I would love for Dallas to put the freeways underground once and for all, or at least entrench them like the Woodall Rodgers. Look at what Houston is doing to the elevated freeway under the Montrose neighborhood: (www.texasfreeway.com/hous...ch.shtml). (http://www.texasfreeway.com/houston/schematics/59_trench/59_trench.shtml).) Atlanta's talking about doing the same thing. It would go well with the Victory project, and other commercial activity planned in the future for the CBD. I also hope that the roadway planned along the Trinity corridor doesn't get lost in the shuffle, though. A 'riverside drive' is crucial to beautifying this city, and would definitely help to take Dallas out of third-tier town status.

[GarrettCarey]

There is something else that Dallas needs in order for any/all of these ideas to become a reality......

Dallas needs more people who care about the city and it's future!

Don't get me wrong....but there are only about ten regulars on this message board with great ideas, thoughts, etc.

Dallas needs more people to be aware of the issues at hand, more people who care, and more forward thinking city leadership.

i care!

[Axes]

Dallas has as much to do as any city its size (less of course than N.Y., Chicago, S.F., L.A. and Miami), but as Garrett said, the issue is people caring about and promoting Dallas. So few people here are from Dallas, no one really cares about it.

I hate to dig up a tired refrain, but compare Dallas and Fort Worth. Noboby moves to Fort Worth. Everybody in Fort Worth is from Fort Worth. Hence, there seems to be a tremendous civic pride based soley on hating Dallas. People in Dallas don't even care about Fort Worth. If more people in Dallas were from Dallas, there would be the boosterism and support there was 20 years ago.

[JaeTex]

Interesting theory, I think I agree. Relatively few native Dallasites therefore they have less invested and care less. Dallas as a victim of its own success? Built by natives with a "can-do" attitude, the city attracted newcomers, but the newcomers have a "don't care to" attitude? Maybe as the newcomers spend time here, put down roots, there will be a second wave of civic spirit? After all didn't Madame Mayor come to Dallas in the 80s?

As for FW, as a Dallas native I actually do begrudge their success a bit. Partially because people compare Sundance to Dopwntown Dallas unfavorably, forgetting that alot was initiated by the efforts of a few, and about the multiple Dallas destinations we've discussed in this thread. (Of course that does show what D could be if we also got a few folks into civic development. ) Also, I know people who have probably not been to Dallas Zoo in 15-20 yrs. who make annual trips to FW Zoo because it is better than Dallas'. It might not be as good as FW Zoo, but then it never will be if we ignore it. Buy Dallas! Pack a lunch when you go to FW. :-)

[GarrettCarey]

It seems that the Nasher Sculpture Center and the Arts District are taking shape nicely. This is one potential candidate for a new Dallas destination in my book. Anyone else?

[legotheeggo]

Everyone..You've got a Houstonian!

I personally like Dallas, i've been there many times and have seen all it has to offer. The problem right now people in Dallas(as mentioned) aren't centralized, and almost everyone lives somewhere else in the metroplex, not Dallas. I also have to say this is a first, on other forums I hear all the dallasites screaming how great their city is and how it competes with NY and LA.. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

[2112]

Lego-my-Eggo,

Common man. Didnt you get enough Dallas bashing back in the old "dallas vs houston" forum? They shut down that forum probably because of you. Lets be more constructive here. Got it? Good.

2112
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat">

[TamTagon]

Some initial thoughts, I like to regard DFW, Houston and Atlanta as the same city. They are all moving up the countries population charts, but just cant seem to find a foothold on the cultural charts. I honestly think that the first of the new big cities to find a way to control air pollution will not find itself trying to develop a new destination, the city will be its own destination.

What is up with Opryland Texas? Will that be a destination?

[paulsukhudallasmetropolis]

I think Dallas has many good destinations. They are just not easily accessible from each other without using a car.

Cities like Boston, San Francisco or Paris seem cool because you can get to all of the destinations by foot or subway (or taxi when you get tired). You can be a complete stranger to the city and easily find all of the hot spots.

When I’m in Atlanta it’s a little more frustrating because I know they have cool destinations, but I keep driving in circles trying to find them. (get in the wrong lane, forced to enter a freeway, forced to turn, etc). Once I do find a cool part of town, I hesitate to explore more because I don’t want to waste more time driving. I’m sure visitors to Dallas and Houston also experience this.

TamTagon is correct about the population growth. These cities now have the tax dollars to really build some good mass transit infrastructure over the next 30 years. Mockingbird station is just one development. Imagine this type of development at almost every station. The future light rail stations in Deep Ellum and Victory should create even more ambitious developments.

-----

I think they picked up the pace:
www.gaylordhotels.com/gay...landtexas/ (http://www.gaylordhotels.com/gaylordoprylandtexas/)

[GarrettCarey]

Opryland certainly looks impresive, but we need that destination to be in the city (Dallas of course)!

..and paul you are right about Dallas, Houston, Atlanta. They all have great destinations, districts, whatever. But the fact that everything is so spread out makes it a nightmare at best. Unfortunately, those things cannot be undone. However, what can be done is continuous improvement of those destinations and increasing the awareness of those areas. One sad thing that I have noticed is that many metroplex residents don't even realize what great amenities D/FW has to offer. Whether it exists in Dallas, Fort Worth, or somewhere in between. It is a shame.

[crescentboi]

I am very excited about the new Opryland being built in Grapevine, but there is also a new resort being built in Grand Prairie. I work at the Hotel Crescent Court, and the executives of the Wildflower Resort are staying with us during the planning process for their new hotel. There website is pretty nice at www.wildflowerresort.com I suggest you visit it, I think that it will be more luxurious than the Opryland and its also closer to downtown Dallas than the Opryland. That should pull more people into the metroplex area just with those two new resorts.