DTD: The Kirby Building

[Mballar]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-kirby_07bus.ART.State.Edition2.211161f.html

New owner planning to redo Kirby Building

93-year-old downtown skyscraper will house condos after conversion

12:00 AM CST on Tuesday, February 7, 2006

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

One of downtown Dallas' oldest skyscrapers has changed hands, and the new owner plans a redo.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/02-07-2006.nb_07kirbynew.G221QCBLS.1.jpg
The Kirby Building has been purchased by Ken Hughes, who developed the Mockingbird Station complex.

The 93-year-old Kirby Building at Main and Akard streets has been purchased by developer Ken Hughes.

Mr. Hughes – who developed the Mockingbird Station complex – bought the 16-story landmark with plans for a major renovation.

"We are going to redo the whole building," Mr. Hughes said. "We are getting the architects in to work on plans for the interior renovation."

In 1998, the Kirby Building was converted into 150 loft-style apartments. Mr. Hughes said he intends to start work later this year to switch the building to about 130 condominiums.

"We are going to target the $200,000-and-under market," he said.

As part of the redevelopment, the new owner plans to upgrade the residential units and make improvements to the ground-floor retail space.

"We will ultimately have to replace all the windows because they are not in good condition," Mr. Hughes said.

He purchased the building from Hall Financial Group, which had owned the property since the 1980s. Terms of the sale were not disclosed.

The Kirby Building was constructed in 1913 by St. Louis beer magnate Adolphus Busch and was originally called the Busch Building.

It was connected by a tunnel to the nearby Adolphus Hotel, which Mr. Busch started in 1912. The granite and terra cotta tile building cost $1 million and was designed by Missouri architect T.P. Barnett in "Continental Gothic style." Mr. Barnett also did the Adolphus Hotel.

In 1919, Houston businessman John Kirby paid $2.2 million for the Dallas office tower and changed the name.

The building originally housed the A. Harris & Co. department store on the lower floors.

Along with the Kirby Building, Mr. Hughes is working on a mixed-use development in Honolulu and has a condo project in downtown Fort Worth.

E-mail stevebrown@dallasnews.com

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[Tnekster]

This will sell out fast at those prices.

[jsoto3]

Great! There goes 150 high-priced rental units off the market, thus inflating rents at other DT properties (probably even before conversion begins) and further delaying the prospects of affordable housing downtown.

[jsoto3]

This will sell out fast at those prices.
I think prices will promptly rise dramatically if initial selling goes well.

[Lionel Hutz]

"We are going to target the $200,000-and-under market," he said.
Sweet news.

I hope the retail matches some of what he did at Mockingbird Station.

I wonder if Jeroboam is going to be gone. The Entertainment Collaborative, which owns Jeroboam (along with Green Room, Gypsy Tea Room, and formerly Trees) , is hurting.

[Justin Terveen]

ruh rho............

This I did not know... I knew Hall had sold the building to Hughes for 80 mil, but had NOT heard about this....

I do believe I'll head downstairs and ask some questions...

[tamtagon]

Great! There goes 150 high-priced rental units off the market, thus inflating rents at other DT properties (probably even before conversion begins) and further delaying the prospects of affordable housing downtown.

In the long run, this may have just the opposite effect. The more owner occupied residential units in the CBD the better to attract the widest price range of rental units.

It seems like the rennovation & conversion of salvageable structures in the CBD will be greatly accelerated. It's possible that almost all of the underused space in the CBD will disappear within 5-7 years. By then, the realtive cost of new construction may not be as inhibitive as it seems to have become recently.

Every proposed highrise in Uptown which is delayed because of high construction costs probably will translate into residential conversion of an empty building in the CBD. Rapidly rising construction costs may be the best thing for CBD vibrancy.

[Justin Terveen]

Sweet news.

I wonder if Jeroboam is going to be gone..


yes.. as of a few months ago they were gone, but with the building being sold that may change.. I can't go into details yet, but when everything is said and done I will..

[Justin Terveen]

All this is still sinking in so you'll have to forgive me... I'm realizing that.....

* This building has so much to lose aesthetically.. when Hall converted it in 98 much of the buildings historic charm was left in tact.. that's why I chose the building to begin with.. if they come in here and gut this place for soft condos I'll be crushed.. regardless of whether I stay or not..

* We were misled...

* This effin sucks...

[carousel]

Great! There goes 150 high-priced rental units off the market, thus inflating rents at other DT properties (probably even before conversion begins) and further delaying the prospects of affordable housing downtown.

is this not affordable housing for purchase? that is something, isn't it?

[BigD5349]

All this is still sinking in so you'll have to forgive me... I'm realizing that.....

* This building has so much to lose aesthetically.. when Hall converted it in 98 much of the buildings historic charm was left in tact.. that's why I chose the building to begin with.. if they come in here and gut this place for soft condos I'll be crushed.. regardless of whether I stay or not..

* We were misled...

* This effin sucks...

I agree, "soft loft" ain't the way to go with the Kirby. BTW, did they give you any idea on timeframes?

[Justin Terveen]

Yeah.. I just got back from a very awkward conversation in the office... 'Spill it' I said as she looked at me with a 'deer staring into headlights' expression..

Its business as usual for the time being.. We're under HUD for another 13 months and still leasing.. They'll be starting in the common areas.. then moving to the the very few vacant units we have.. Supposedly, they don't plan on disturbing much of the buildings historic value.. I got ‘I don’t know’ as an answer quite a few times… so.. I don't know..

I was only able to talk to the AM... The manager has conveniently stepped out for the day.. I'll find out more later..

[jsoto3]

is this not affordable housing for purchase? that is something, isn't it?
As I said above, in terms of pricing I think this will go the way of the Azure. This is one of the top 3 most elegant buildings DT and is worthy of higher purchase prices. I'm sure it could easily fetch them if done right (which is likely with Ken Hughes). Perhaps I'm off base, I hope so.

[Justin Terveen]

Perhaps I'm off base, I hope so.

nope.. I'm afraid you're right on point..

[CityLove]

I, for one, think this stinks. I too am afraid of Kirby going the way of "soft lofts." That building oozes history, and it's one of the few places you can get ITH rates. I'm all for a variety of options in DT, but not at the expense of renters. This means 150 less options for renters in DT...and anything new to rent will, inherently, be higher priced.

[Lakewooder]

There's always the Statler/Hilton/Grand!

[jsoto3]

There's always the Statler/Hilton/Grand!
That thing will be so expensive to redevelop that it will have to be condos or hotel/condo. God willing . . . .

[BigD5349]

There's always the Statler/Hilton/Grand!

I've heard the big problems there, other than asbestos, is that all the ceilings are low and therefore not attractive to developers. Is that true?

[BigD5349]

What other properties are coming on-line? Mosaic and Republic Bank will be rentals, right?

[Cliff Dweller]

Sorry, what is meant by "soft lofts" ? And what is the alternative, hard lofts? Which do you think is preferable?

[Justin Terveen]

soft loft is a descriptive term used when a unit has a very soft, unurban feel... a vanilla cube.. looks like any other apt or condo on the block..

the alternative is an unrefined industrial urban look... exposed piping, brick and so on.. there are different levels of soft.. the davis is a good example of a semi-soft loft.. as is, the Kirby looks almost like it did 90+ years ago.. and it should stay that way..

[effulgent]

Wilson isn't quite a raw loft, it has some "soft" features, but it also doesn't have the dropped ceilings and the steel appliances that many newer apartments (like DPL & IB) have. It has lots of exposed everything, so that's good. It's not quite as raw as the Davis building, though. The interior of the Wilson Building has some great architectural elements that were preserved. Floors 3-8 have the same floors, doors, and marble wainscotting as was there when the place was an office building.

I've heard that the Wilson will probably not go condo anytime soon, and I hope they decide to wait to go Condo until after I finish my MBA at the Universities Center and can afford to buy my unit. Of course if 203 Ervay (Is that the number? The blue monstrosity?) goes condo, I'll be super irked because I don't want someone to be able to look directly into my 2nd floor loft.

I would not buy a "soft loft" downtown. I like my drafty windows and high ceilings and rough original hardwood floors and would leave almost everything as is. It makes me sad what they did to the DPL building with the soft loft feel. I'd redo our bathroom though - out with the slate, in with some decent tile or marble.

[Justin Terveen]

The interior of the Wilson Building has some great architectural elements that were preserved.


Yes it does.. I've always thought Post did an outstanding job of preserving much of that buildings character.. Like any other conversion there are hints of modern day design, but only enough to compliment the existing structure.. Good balance..

[jgrant]

"We will ultimately have to replace all the windows because they are not in good condition," Mr. Hughes said.


The old windows are actually one of the things I like best about the building. Yes, they're single-pane and rather weathered on the outside, but they're completely functional and just great asthetically.
I've done a fair amount of thinking on this subject, and I feel modern windows can go a surprisingly long way towards removing the charm of a historic building. Just compare the Kirby to the Dallas National Bank building (future Joule Hotel) across the street. Both have wonderful terra cotta facades, but the DNB building's modern windows just suck the life out of it. Same with the Thomas building on Wood St.
So hopefully they'll put some real thought into selecting appropriate new windows, as long as they're bent on replacing the old ones.

[clipper]

In order to adhere to the Kirby's landmark designation they will have to use new windows that look EXACTLY like the old ones.

[Lionel Hutz]

Has any decision been made on the buildings donated by Atmos? Was the plan to wait until after the Merc is done to start work on the Atmos buildings?

[Justin Terveen]

That's true.. What else will they have to 'adhere' to?

I forget the building has its landmark status going for it..

[effulgent]

The old windows are actually one of the things I like best about the building. Yes, they're single-pane and rather weathered on the outside, but they're completely functional and just great asthetically.
I've done a fair amount of thinking on this subject, and I feel modern windows can go a surprisingly long way towards removing the charm of a historic building. Just compare the Kirby to the Dallas National Bank building (future Joule Hotel) across the street. Both have wonderful terra cotta facades, but the DNB building's modern windows just suck the life out of it. Same with the Thomas building on Wood St.
So hopefully they'll put some real thought into selecting appropriate new windows, as long as they're bent on replacing the old ones.

I'm guessing you've seen Third Rail Lofts windows? Talk about life sucking. If they're going to do that to a building, why leave it standing? Why not knock the whole damn thing down and put up a shiny new building with shiny new everything?

[clipper]

That was a Dahl designed building. It made me sick to see them chop it up like that.

[BigD5349]

^Tho often overlooked, I always liked the clean lines of that building. I guess that it was a development challenge -- it needed windows for a residential conversion, but it could have been a retail development as well.

I wonder if it lacked adequate parking for a multi-level retail development? Does anyone know how many public spaces will be available in the adjacent parking garage that is under development?

[clipper]

One old plan called for saving the skin of that building and extending the parking garage into it. That would have probably made more sense from a preservation standpoint. Too late now. The sawed up that great fossilized limestone curtain wall.

[Insidetheloop]

This is the real reason it changed hands:

OFFICIAL ACTION OF THE DALLAS CITY COUNCIL

December 13, 1995

95-4188

Item 129: Approve a real property tax abatement agreement with Walt Hall Kirby Associates Ltd.
for a 100% abatement of the taxes on the added value of real property for a period of ten
years located within an area of the City of Dallas designated Enterprise Zone Three at
1509 and 1414 Elm Street


The Tax Abatement is up.


Insidetheloop,

Like a Mediterranean Adonis, only better looking

[effulgent]

Hmmmm...

The Wilson Building has been pouring money into some really nice renovations. We now have a KILLER media room, and we're about to get a revamped patio and workout room.

And from what I understand, they got a 10 year tax abatement in 1997. Hmm ...

I figure EITHER:

a) The Wilson Building realizes without a pool, it can't charge as high of rent as some of the other players in the neighborhood, so it's fixing the place up to compete (their party line)

OR

b) They're souping up the building getting it ready for a condo conversion. Does anyone know if they did this when they converted Post 588 lofts in Uptown?

[Agnus Dei]

I'm thinking (hoping) it's option A. Our fitness room is okay but nothing compared to some other properties. I figure if they want to compete they need prettier amenities. (A back elevator that doesn't sound like it's falling apart would be nice.)

[swellison]

Just wait until this real estate bubble bursts...

[Wineguy2000]

if the kirby is redoing their retail space what happens to Jeroboum?

[telarium]

Hey! I live in Post Wilson as well. Which floor?


Hmmmm...

The Wilson Building has been pouring money into some really nice renovations. We now have a KILLER media room, and we're about to get a revamped patio and workout room.

And from what I understand, they got a 10 year tax abatement in 1997. Hmm ...

I figure EITHER:

a) The Wilson Building realizes without a pool, it can't charge as high of rent as some of the other players in the neighborhood, so it's fixing the place up to compete (their party line)

OR

b) They're souping up the building getting it ready for a condo conversion. Does anyone know if they did this when they converted Post 588 lofts in Uptown?

[effulgent]

Hey! I live in Post Wilson as well. Which floor?

Monogodo and I live directly above the Press Box Grill.

[monogodo]

Monogodo and I live directly above the Press Box Grill.
Which would make it the 2nd floor.

[telarium]

Ah, small world! I live right above Ann's Cafe.

[FoUTASportscaster]

I ate there the other day with girlfriend. That was good stuff.

[Justin Terveen]

It begins-

A definite buzz around the building... Hughes/contractors walking the building with prints..

I’ve heard some of the preliminary plans for the roof and the other common areas.. sounds pretty cool...

[gc]

It begins-

A definite buzz around the building... Hughes/contractors walking the building with prints..

I’ve heard some of the preliminary plans for the roof and the other common areas.. sounds pretty cool...

Well, that is great news for DTD, but bad news for you. Where might you go?

[Justin Terveen]

Actually, I've really warmed up to the idea.. Even more so now that I work here.. If all goes well, I'll consider buying here. But it's still waaay too early to tell... so we'll see..

[Justin Terveen]

- If I do have to move... I'm thinking southside..

[BigD5349]

I’ve heard some of the preliminary plans for the roof and the other common areas.. sounds pretty cool...

Spill your guts! What have you heard? :D

[Justin Terveen]

well... i won't go into detail until i clear it with the building manager, but I will say this- wood deck / glass / ruby red tile (pool)..

i’ll spill what I know when I get the okay.. but remember, all this is very much preliminary.. they're just testing the waters right now..seeing what they can and can't afford to do.. so any of this could change.. -as I'm sure you all know //disclaimer

[Justin Terveen]

And I forgot to mention- We're singing 13 month leases until October... so...

[vman]

Ah, small world! I live right above Ann's Cafe.

I was taking a walk Monday during my lunch break and ran across Ann's and gave it a try. The food was terrific and inexpensive!!!! I loved the place. I don't know why I never noticed it. I grabbed a menu and have been recommending it to friends.

[CityLove]

I was taking a walk Monday during my lunch break and ran across Ann's and gave it a try. The food was terrific and inexpensive!!!! I loved the place. I don't know why I never noticed it. I grabbed a menu and have been recommending it to friends.

Did you get a punchcard? They have punchcards for frequent Ann's visitors.