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BigD5349
23 September 2006, 12:54 PM
Hahahaha...shows you what I know! :)

Here's hoping this project never gets off the ground.

Fair enough. :)

I don't think the building is, like stunningly compelling, but I like it because it strays a bit from the prevailing formula for architecture. Dallas seems to be a city of restrained architectural tastes, but I wouldn't mind a few more departures from the norm.

St-T
25 September 2006, 11:11 AM
I vote for the new one, too!

frankchitown
25 September 2006, 04:50 PM
I love the newer design, but I'll instantly hate it if people start calling it Dallas's "arc de triumph"...that would just be another reason for the cities we try to copy to laugh at us.

boozo
25 September 2006, 05:16 PM
Blech! It looks like a Porto-potty for Big Tex.

What an unsophisticated concept. You can build that building with a child's play blocks, -- the wooden ones.

elmstreetdallas
25 September 2006, 05:29 PM
What cities do we try to copy? What are the new NorthPark expansion, the Nasher, Winspear Opera House, Wyly Theatre, Azure copies of?

grantboston
25 September 2006, 05:33 PM
Did we ever establish that this is the new design the project is using to move ahead?

Also, to the children's block thing. That's what Frank Lloyd Wright used when he was a kid. Apparently little building blocks were what spurred him on the path to architecture. So, not all bad comes from little blocks.

Rob
25 September 2006, 05:42 PM
Sounds like we have a winner by about a 5 or 6 to 2 or 3 margin.

Hooray for the new design.

Speech! Speech!

frankchitown
25 September 2006, 06:15 PM
What cities do we try to copy?

New York, Chicago, LA, London, Paris...basically established world class cities, Dallas isn't alone in this aspect though. You'll know when Dallas is a world class city when you start hearing of projects dubbed as "Atlanta's own Deep Ellum", or "San Francisco's Reunion Tower"


What are the new NorthPark expansion, the Nasher, Winspear Opera House, Wyly Theatre, Azure copies of?

Nothing..all great projects in themselves, but I always wince when I hear of projects referred to as "the Times Square of Dallas" or "Dallas's Millenium Park" etc. These are great enough on their own and can carry their own weight, there's no reason to attach other city's names to them.

Tnekster
25 September 2006, 06:51 PM
Nothing..all great projects in themselves, but I always wince when I hear of projects referred to as "the Times Square of Dallas" or "Dallas's Millenium Park" etc. These are great enough on their own and can carry their own weight, there's no reason to attach other city's names to them.

Don't you know it, that kind of talk really bothers me.

barrycb
25 September 2006, 06:55 PM
I love the newer design, but I'll instantly hate it if people start calling it Dallas's "arc de triumph"...that would just be another reason for the cities we try to copy to laugh at us.

New York copied it...Barcelona did too. But I get your drift.

Agnus Dei
25 September 2006, 07:26 PM
Nothing..all great projects in themselves, but I always wince when I hear of projects referred to as "the Times Square of Dallas" or "Dallas's Millenium Park" etc. These are great enough on their own and can carry their own weight, there's no reason to attach other city's names to them.

My thoughts exactly. I think that's a big insecurity that Dallas needs to overcome. Doing so will do wonders for the city, methinks.

If I hear this referred to as the arc de triumph, I might just vomit a little in my mouth. Or rather, a lot.

Lakewooder
25 September 2006, 08:36 PM
So, Paris has even copied itself, and there are triumphal arches in many places, including Rome and Berlin. Besides, this one kind of reminds me of something Irwin Allen (Lost in Space) would conjure up...

Rob
25 September 2006, 09:13 PM
La Défense was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw it too.

dendalmatt07
26 September 2006, 05:40 PM
ha no one in their right mind should call this dallas' "arc de triomphe". this looks nothing like paris' famous arc and its hardly even an arc.

i like it though.

cowboyeagle05
26 September 2006, 05:44 PM
As long as we get to use ours more than the french version!

Mephis Gooseberry
26 September 2006, 08:34 PM
Ok, how bout arc de porto toilette?

berryhill
27 September 2006, 09:26 AM
For all of you complaining about us "copying" the Arcs of Rome, Barcelona, New York, and Paris: please keep in mind there are only so many geometric shapes to work with when designing a structure. The Arc is a symbol of strength and stability, and just because the French and the Romans have one doesn't mean that they have a monopoly on it. By the same logic, do we own the ideas of a big lit-up sphere or a green rectangle?

And about the comparisons to the Arc de Triomphe, I just don't see it. It looks like two independent structures except for the top floor. Hardly an arc in the traditional sense (although it looks similar to Paris' awful Arc in La Defensé). I live right next to the Arc de Triomf in Barcelona (literally a 2 minute walk from my apartment) and I challenge anyone to draw up an decent comparison to the popular monuments. They are uninhabited, elaborately-adorned symbols of history for these cities, NOT 30-story apartment buildings with hundreds of windows and dozens of balconies. Geez.

CTroyMathis
27 September 2006, 10:55 AM
I always thought the Umeda Sky Building in Osaka was a pretty interesting structure and this Corgan visual is somewhat similar to it minus the 37 pieces of flair.

Anyone stop by their offices to make an inquiry or see if they're working a model?

Boredkid
27 September 2006, 11:10 AM
....

eburress
27 September 2006, 04:44 PM
And about the comparisons to the Arc de Triomphe, I just don't see it. It looks like two independent structures except for the top floor. Hardly an arc in the traditional sense (although it looks similar to Paris' awful Arc in La Defensé). I live right next to the Arc de Triomf in Barcelona (literally a 2 minute walk from my apartment) and I challenge anyone to draw up an decent comparison to the popular monuments. They are uninhabited, elaborately-adorned symbols of history for these cities, NOT 30-story apartment buildings with hundreds of windows and dozens of balconies. Geez.
Like I said before, it looks like two rectangles with a giant piece of swiss cheese on top. What beautifully innovative design!

exp8tri8
24 January 2007, 09:29 PM
Does anyone have any news about this project?

Rob
24 January 2007, 09:44 PM
I thought it was on hold.

SCARLETandBLACK
25 January 2007, 01:00 AM
It would be nice to see a quality design in this location.

As far as the "arc" goes, however, I think it is a little skimpy on the lintel. What would go through the center of the bottom? An arc is like a ceremonial gateway to the city for the victorious (lets not get into everybody who has marched through Paris).

While I don't think that design would be a good choice in that location (and I am not particularly fond of the design, itself), I am intrigued with the concept. I think it would be enormously beneficial if Dallas could have a "correctly designed" arc or similar monumental passageway (by this, I do not mean necessarily historic, but I do mean something that serves the purpose, is site specific, is well designed for the clients, etc).

I'm not sure how flimsy Dallas' and Texas' brief French roots would be considered.

As mentioned, the Spanish have similar monuments- and we all know that the Spaniards hated to enter Texas and used it as a "buffer- zone" between itself and the French. As a matter of fact, Texas progressed very little under the control of Spain because Texas was considered a place where governing parties did not want to go (there wasn't a future).

With just those two things considered, I'm sure somebody could come up with some ideas (especially since it could be built as a gateway from/to "VICTORY" or Fair Park).

Lakewooder
25 January 2007, 02:42 PM
I think an arc would be perfect at the top of Ross where it intersects Lower Greenville. If you look to Downtown, it's very similar to the change in grade from the Arch de Triomphe down to the Tuleries in Paris.

With some nice wide sidewalks and trees, the empty car lots (ready for developers) along Ross could be transformed into our own Champs Elysees leading to the Arts District and Downtown

dfwcre8tive
25 January 2007, 02:53 PM
http://www.turnhere.com/sampleplayer2.aspx?filmname=bf_museumtower

Kelley USA
25 January 2007, 03:01 PM
Nice little video- but they show not a single rendering of the building. I just visited the website and it looks like nothing has been added since January of last year. Also, no renderings at all on the website.

St-T
25 January 2007, 03:03 PM
This is a great location...just a tough sell right now with everything under construction. When the Woodall Rogers Park is complete it will act as a large front yard for this property.

dfwcre8tive
25 January 2007, 03:07 PM
I like this quote from their website (http://www.museumtowerdallas.com/index-2.html) :

"Located 12 meters from Museum Tower, the 11-story Wyly will be an extremely functional piece of modern artwork."

jsoto3
25 January 2007, 03:20 PM
Awesome, it's going to have its own little park designed by renowned landscape design firm West 8 (http://www.west8.nl/)!

Mephis Gooseberry
25 January 2007, 03:27 PM
I like this quote from their website (http://www.museumtowerdallas.com/index-2.html) :

"Located 12 meters from Museum Tower, the 11-story Wyly will be an extremely functional piece of modern artwork."

Its more like 300 meters.

dfwcre8tive
25 January 2007, 04:09 PM
I signed up on the contact list on their website a few hours ago and just received a phone call from them. I was told that they are definitely going forward with the project. They are currently going through another round of design changes which should be presented in 30-60 days. Construction starts at the end of the summer with a tentative move-in date of early 2009. It helps to talk to someone on the phone rather than speculate.

Tnekster
25 January 2007, 04:16 PM
I signed up on the contact list on their website a few hours ago and just received a phone call from them. I was told that they are definitely going forward with the project. They are currently going through another round of design changes which should be presented in 30-60 days. Construction starts at the end of the summer with a tentative move-in date of early 2009. It helps to talk to someone on the phone rather than speculate.

Way to go...thanks!

DallasMan
25 January 2007, 04:29 PM
wow - that is great! I love this site for a residential project. The Woodall-Rogers park will make this a prime address.

Mark Lea
25 January 2007, 08:37 PM
I get the feeling that in 10 years, people are going to wonder why this tower is only 21 stories. With such a great location, i would think they would have many more interested parties. Time will tell

Mephis Gooseberry
25 January 2007, 10:04 PM
I get the feeling that in 10 years, people are going to wonder why this tower is only 21 stories. With such a great location, i would think they would have many more interested parties. Time will tell


The original 21 story proposal's reception was luke warm, the developer is redesigning the whole thing.

The second teaser release, the Arc de Porto Toilette, appeared to be two towers 30 floors tall with a stylized Big Tex sized Crapper hole joining them at the top.

have they announced a final design at only 21?

Tnekster
25 January 2007, 10:19 PM
The original 21 story proposal's reception was luke warm, the developer is redesigning the whole thing.

The second teaser release, the Arc de Porto Toilette, appeared to be two towers 30 floors tall with a stylized Big Tex sized Crapper hole joining them at the top.

have they announced a final design at only 21?

Nice analysis, but I agree the final could be significantly larger than what was originally proposed. Can't wait to see what they come up with.

BigD5349
25 January 2007, 11:09 PM
...the Arc de Porto Toilette...

That's a classic, Mephis. :thumbsup:

Rob
26 January 2007, 09:45 AM
I'm pretty sure the Arc de Porto Toilette design is an older, unselected one.

Mark Lea
26 January 2007, 04:41 PM
The video on the website still says 21 stories. Is that an old video?

Stevo50
10 February 2007, 10:32 AM
Any new news on this?

kenc
10 February 2007, 01:34 PM
My gut tells me this deal is dead. But the property is too prime for a parkng lot, so I don't think it will be long....it just may be something other than condos.

We don't really have an Arts District Hotel other than the Fairmount. That Hotel needs to build a new tower at this location - very plush Hotel, and revert the existing Hotel to apartments. The building needs a major update, and it was built as apartments originally anyway. If the condo market remains strong, then add 10 floors of condos at the top.

dfwcre8tive
10 February 2007, 03:13 PM
^

I called them a few weeks ago and they assured me the project is taking place, only delayed. See post 231.

RedStripe
15 February 2007, 05:11 PM
The word on the street is that the designs seen so far are just preliminary. The design has yet to be finalized, though the big news is that it currently is looking to be a 42 story building (just a few floors short of the height of the Trammell Crow). All residential, 100+ units.

The developers are probably in talks to acquire that other small parking lot immediately to the south. Furthermore, the Woodall Rogers exit would stay, but the part that curves back around the MT block would most likely be eliminated (so, in other words, if you exit from eastbound Woodall Rogers, you could only go straight onto Pearl and not be able to loop around to Olive).

All this is up in the air though.

Side question - where do people go to talk about prices paid and market demand on real estate here in Dallas? Just about everything else is talked about on this site, so is there a forum for peope's buying/selling experience of real estate in the area?

DallasMan
15 February 2007, 05:52 PM
Maybe a taller, grander plan is what this project needs in order to get on its feet and start moving...this is still one of my favorite locations - can't wait to see what develops here. Thanks for the update!

Stevo50
15 February 2007, 07:42 PM
Good info RedStripe. Sorry I can't help you out on your question though. I have been interested in seeing this project get some traction as that is a great location that deserves a one of a kind building.

Mephis Gooseberry
15 February 2007, 07:51 PM
The word on the street is that the designs seen so far are just preliminary. The design has yet to be finalized, though the big news is that it currently is looking to be a 42 story building (just a few floors short of the height of the Trammell Crow). All residential, 100+ units.

The developers are probably in talks to acquire that other small parking lot immediately to the south. Furthermore, the Woodall Rogers exit would stay, but the part that curves back around the MT block would most likely be eliminated (so, in other words, if you exit from eastbound Woodall Rogers, you could only go straight onto Pearl and not be able to loop around to Olive).

All this is up in the air though.

Side question - where do people go to talk about prices paid and market demand on real estate here in Dallas? Just about everything else is talked about on this site, so is there a forum for peope's buying/selling experience of real estate in the area?

Excellent news/rumor. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Very exciting. This is what Downtown needs.

Tnekster
15 February 2007, 09:52 PM
Will be interesting to see how this develops. Especially since Hall tabled his project which would have been about the same height.

BigD5349
15 February 2007, 10:41 PM
Will be interesting to see how this develops. Especially since Hall tabled his project which would have been about the same height.

ha, I was thinking exactly the same thing!

DallasMan
19 April 2007, 11:32 PM
Any news here? Website is still unchanged. Awesome site - hard to beat. I haven't been able to find any new renderings of the new design - i guess they are still on the drawing board w/ this.

psukhu
20 April 2007, 10:16 AM
I spoke to a realtor close to them and they are still moving forward. I think they said they are breaking ground in the summer and will take less than two years to complete.

It sounds like prices will start in the $500's for a one bedroom.