Statues of Mexican Heros in Winnetka Park?

[Random Traffic Guy]

Good commentary from the DMN blog. No Texas or US connection = no way. :guns:


Mexican statues in Dallas
OK, wait a minute. We're going to allow the placing of statues of Mexican historical figures in a public park in Dallas, Texas, United States of America? (http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-statues_25met.ART.State.Edition2.136566c4.html) "It will be a rotunda dedicated to the heroes of Mexican history," said Carlos Garcia De Alba, the Mexican consul-general.


Of the historical figures listed in the story, they all seem uncontroversial to me, but I've got a problem with building statues on public land to significant cultural figures from another country, who have little or nothing to do with American history. I'm part Irish, and many Irish-Americans revere the memory of Eamonn De Valera. But I would consider it wrong for the government to permit or encourage the erecting of a statue to De Valera in a public park in this country. I'm also of German heritage, but I wouldn't find anything wrong with putting up a statue to von Steuben, a German who played a key role in the American Revolution. Von Steuben is important to American history. This is America. We don't need to be encouraging a separation mentality. Those statues should be built to honor great Mexican-Americans, not Mexicans.


The involvement of the Mexican consulate in this plan calls to mind the point Heather Mac Donald made in her "Mexico's Undiplomatic Diplomats" (http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_4_mexico.html) piece:


Since 1990, Mexico has embarked on a series of initiatives to import Mexican culture into the U.S. Mexico’s five-year development plan in 1995 announced that the “Mexican nation extends beyond . . . its border”—into the United States. Accordingly, the government would “strengthen solidarity programs with the Mexican communities abroad by emphasizing their Mexican roots, and supporting literacy programs in Spanish and the teaching of the history, values, and traditions of our country.”

Goodness knows no one begrudges Mexican-Americans and Mexicans living here the right to revere whomever they choose. But putting up statues in a public park sends a message, and it's not one that reinforces the identity of those who use that park as Americans, or aspiring Americans. If the US Embassy in Mexico City got behind a project to erect statues to American historical figures in a public park there, you can imagine how well that would go over in Mexico City. I wouldn't blame the Mexicans at all. They would be quite right to wonder what was going on here. So should we.

8:55 AM | Rod Dreher (More) | Respond | Permalink

[Columbus Civil]

What about a couple of bronze statues of figures swimming in the Trinity?

[Cliff Dweller]

OK, I'll display my ignorance: where is Winnetka Park? Apparently it's somewhere in District 6 - anybody know?

[Insidetheloop]

^ I think it's really in West Dallas, not Oak Cliff. I believe it's north of Singleton near the river bottoms. Not quite sure though, could be wrong.

[JSteffen]

^ I think it's really in West Dallas, not Oak Cliff. I believe it's north of Singleton near the river bottoms. Not quite sure though, could be wrong.

Yes you are.

[jammin]

yeah go dmn. culture sucks.

[KBilly]

Do ya think that maybe Rod Dreher of the DMN should know that it's now called Benito Juarez Parque de Heroes? That'll really get his shorts in a bigger knot. :eek:

[Flaming Moderate]

Many will think this alarmist or extreme, but it is pretty clearly documented - anecdotally and specifically - that Mexico is attempting to retake parts of the U.S. It is succeeding.

[antoinekhuu]

Perosnally,I don't like the idea of building a foreign heroe statue in our public land.
However,I noted that the most "public" land we have is the street.And in Houston,There are streets along Bellair corridor in the new Chinatown that have Chinese names along with English names. THere are also streets in Mid-town Houston that have Veitnamese names and English names.

[Lakewooder]

The next step will be to rename schools such as Bowie, Crockett, Travis, etc...

[sogod]

Perosnally,I don't like the idea of building a foreign heroe statue in our public land.
However,I noted that the most "public" land we have is the street.And in Houston,There are streets along Bellair corridor in the new Chinatown that have Chinese names along with English names. THere are also streets in Mid-town Houston that have Veitnamese names and English names.
Chinese and Vietnamese street names are in no way the same as statues honoring Mexican national figures. For example, the streets could be named after Americans of Chinese or Vietnamese descent.

Im glad to see that not everyone on this board is against the articles message. With the generally liberal bent here I thought at least one person would have thrown the race card ;)

[oak cliff p-wood]

this might be irrelevant but cultural and other issues aside, dontcha think that there are better things to do with taxpayers $$$ than put up some daamn statues

[antoinekhuu]

If they create an International Park and put statues of historic heroes from all over the world, that would be much better

[Lakewooder]

deleted -- sorry.

[oak cliff p-wood]

^^^ whats up with that comment.....does being muslim preclude one from being american
there are many many americans who have not lived anywhere but the US and never left who are muslim(i was raised in islam but to me any religon that frowns on drinking gambling and skirt chasing is stupid)

[Lakewooder]

This issue is about placing statues of heros from foreign countries here, not american heros -- I'll withdraw the comment if you are offended.

[oak cliff p-wood]

naw dude i wasnt offended but i was just pointing out that religon doesnt always equate nationality......i think what you meant was "middle eastern heroes".....I myself was suprised about islam's long history in the US.........it has been rumored(i havent been able to verify) that one of the delegates to the constitutional convention was a former british muslim

[Cliff Dweller]

JSteffen, if he's wrong, then where is it? All the DMN said was that it is in Salazar's district, but that covers a lot of territory. Anybody?

[Insidetheloop]

JSteffen, if he's wrong, then where is it? All the DMN said was that it is in Salazar's district, but that covers a lot of territory. Anybody?

I thought it was on the northern part of Winnetka north of Singleton. Winnetka splits and is divided by a railroad track and some junk yard type places then starts up again on the north side of Singleton. I know for sure that it's not south of Colorado. Positive on that.

[UrbanHope]

The park is in West Dallas. Just west of Sylvan, between Canada (the river) and Singleton

[js]

http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=3212+N.+Winnetka&csz=Dallas%2C+TX+&Get%A0Map=Get+Map

[JSteffen]

Which is Oak Cliff. He was right about the location. But this site IS Oak Cliff.

[js]

No bro that is not Oak Cliff.
That is West Dallas.
Member Oak Cliff starts on the other side of I30.

[msutton]

this should not be allowed. how can it be prevented?

Unless Mexico wants to put a huge statue of Sam Houston in Mexico City.

[trolleygirl]

I agree about statues of American heros. When I first read the article, I didn't really have any thoughts about it. But now, after reading some of this discussion, I guess I am opposed to any type of statue- or holiday- that celebrates "heros" from other countries. We should honor Americans here.

Here's the question for those of you who have been abroad- especially to countries we liberated during WWII- are there any statues of Eisenhower in Paris or London? You get my point.

[JSteffen]

No bro that is not Oak Cliff.
That is West Dallas.
Member Oak Cliff starts on the other side of I30.

check again bud.

[tamtagon]

A curious thing about infusing awareness of Mexican history into the culture of the American Southwest is the very real probability that the plan would back-fire on Mexican leaders hoping to export Mexican society. Texan society has it's own Hispanic culture - always has - and it's not so different between Northeastern Mexico and Texas, often interdependent. Should the majority of people in Texas begin to understand and regard Mexican history (heros and such, beyond Pancho Villa) as they understand and regard American histroy, the culture of Texas could actually be exported to Mexico.

Personally, I'm all in favor of something like that. It goes hand in hand with a thoroughly bilingual population of Texans. Putting statues of Mexican heros in Dallas parks is inappropriate, IMO; The Latino Cultural Center is where it should happen.

[jdwillis]

A curious thing about infusing awareness of Mexican history into the culture of the American Southwest is the very real probability that the plan would back-fire on Mexican leaders hoping to export Mexican society. Texan society has it's own Hispanic culture - always has - and it's not so different between Northeastern Mexico and Texas, often interdependent. Should the majority of people in Texas begin to understand and regard Mexican history (heros and such, beyond Pancho Villa) as they understand and regard American histroy, the culture of Texas could actually be exported to Mexico.

Personally, I'm all in favor of something like that. It goes hand in hand with a thoroughly bilingual population of Texans. Putting statues of Mexican heros in Dallas parks is inappropriate, IMO; The Latino Cultural Center is where it should happen.

I can see it now. Try suggesting putting a statue of Jack Hays anywhere in Mexico. See what would happen if a statue of a Rinche were to be displayed in Mexico City.

What would be the difference? It would be the same as trying to place a statue of Robert E. Lee in someplace like Vermont.

This whole question smacks of political correctness. Multi-culturalism is a fine thing, but statues of foreign heroes? If you want that sort of thing, go to the source and get it in context. It does not matter if you want statues of Mexican heroes, Russian heroes, or dead Easter Island kings. If you are viewing them out of their historical and cultural context then you might as well be seeing them in some coffee table book. It would mean just about as much. Except you get less pigeon poop out of a coffee table book!:~)

[js]

check again bud.


It aint Oak Cliff. thats my hood and it aint Oak Cliff. Its west dallas. Westside playa.

[oak cliff p-wood]

its west dallas, crosshampton to be exact

[JSteffen]

It aint Oak Cliff. thats my hood and it aint Oak Cliff. Its west dallas. Westside playa.


Where the heck do you think I live. Not everyone is as unarticulate as you south of I-30. I live at Sunset and Vernon. I hope that clears up any territory dispute you might have.

[oak cliff p-wood]

^^^ anywhere around singleton might technically be oak cliff but its really west dallas, fishtrap, rupert bernel, canada, puget, vilbig, north hampton park, all that is west dallas
there are 4 basic areas...westmoreland, rupert, fishtrap and crosshampton(all of west dallas east of hampton road)
thomas edison and pinkston are west dallas even though they are south of the trinity....nobody i know would call that the cliff...now off fort worth and commerce thats kinda ambicguous

[js]

Where the heck do you think I live. Not everyone is as unarticulate as you south of I-30. I live at Sunset and Vernon. I hope that clears up any territory dispute you might have.

I know where you live son, corner house see all the time when I am around Jefferson blvd. and I is unarticulate on purpose.

The terriotory dispute is over the location of Winnetka Park, which is in West Dallas. You sir, do live in Oak Cliff, but prolly dont know its boundries.

If you go to the City Website and go to parks (http://www.dallascityhall.com/dallas/eng/html/recreation_centers.html) Look under the heading West Dallas. Its the Anita Martinez - 3212 N. Winnetka. Which is also Salzar's district. Oak Cliff is in two districts 1 and 3 and neither is Salazars district.

If your going to speak, make sure to know what your talking about. And yes I know that more and more gay peeps is moving into oak cliff. and the only reason it pisses me off is because they keep calling code enforcement on my behind.

[oak cliff p-wood]

^^^^ well in that case move over here off s lancaster by the VA....i havent seen anybody over here except in apts get red tagged or cited for code violations


and btw Mr JS...does anita martinez still got that boxing club over there

[Columbus Civil]

Glad to see js posting again :)

[oak cliff p-wood]

I know where you live son, corner house see all the time when I am around Jefferson blvd. and I is unarticulate on purpose.

The terriotory dispute is over the location of Winnetka Park, which is in West Dallas. You sir, do live in Oak Cliff, but prolly dont know its boundries.

If you go to the City Website and go to parks (http://www.dallascityhall.com/dallas/eng/html/recreation_centers.html) Look under the heading West Dallas. Its the Anita Martinez - 3212 N. Winnetka. Which is also Salzar's district. Oak Cliff is in two districts 1 and 3 and neither is Salazars district.

If your going to speak, make sure to know what your talking about. And yes I know that more and more gay peeps is moving into oak cliff. and the only reason it pisses me off is because they keep calling code enforcement on my behind.
what????? oak cliff is also in district 4 and 8

[js]

what????? oak cliff is also in district 4 and 8

4 & 8 is South Dallas. I am almost tempted to say it is only in District 1.

[js]

Glad to see js posting again :)

its been a while, but I still read even if it is done anon.

and your still funny bro. cracks me up all the time

[oak cliff p-wood]

4 & 8 is South Dallas. I am almost tempted to say it is only in District 1.
naw cuz as soon as you cross over the river and MLK becomes ceder crest...your in oak cliff
are you saying that singing hills, highland hills, etc is south dallas and not oak cliff?

[js]

naw cuz as soon as you cross over the river and MLK becomes ceder crest...your in oak cliff
are you saying that singing hills, highland hills, etc is south dallas and not oak cliff?


look at this map bro
http://laurissa.com/Stevens/AnnulledOC.htm

[oak cliff p-wood]

look at this map bro
http://laurissa.com/Stevens/AnnulledOC.htm

so you define oak cliff as like the original city of oak cliff like just around clarendon and all.....ok i understand
but i will say that not many people would agree with that...if a out of towner was at the corner of ledbetter and lancaster or at the kiest station on th eblue line or at cedar crest golf course and asked what part of town they were in , 99% chance they would hear "your in the cliff"

[js]

so you define oak cliff as like the original city of oak cliff like just around clarendon and all.....ok i understand
but i will say that not many people would agree with that...if a out of towner was at the corner of ledbetter and lancaster or at the kiest station on th eblue line or at cedar crest golf course and asked what part of town they were in , 99% chance they would hear "your in the cliff"

that is true, its also true that there is a whole bunch of uneducated people on the subject and they call eveyrthing south of the trinity OC. they should get it right they should hold news people accountable for putting out wrong information like that, that would make people think that

[oak cliff p-wood]

^^^ LOL....so your saying none of the places mentioned in th eoak cliff song are in oak cliff LOL...that is a trip.....South oak cliff high school isnt oak cliff?????
but your not the only one who thinks like that...i have a cousin who lives off 12th street and he tells me all the damn time"your not from oak cliff, your from south dallas"......and the only appropriate response is, if i was in south dallas i could walk to the beer store!!!

[js]

^^^ LOL....so your saying none of the places mentioned in th eoak cliff song are in oak cliff LOL...that is a trip.....South oak cliff high school isnt oak cliff?????
but your not the only one who thinks like that...i have a cousin who lives off 12th street and he tells me all the damn time"your not from oak cliff, your from south dallas"......and the only appropriate response is, if i was in south dallas i could walk to the beer store!!!

you could walk to the beer store in oak cliff. it would be a long walk but none the less it can be done. talking about that song what is highland hills never really understoond and never really wanted to ask

[msutton]

thread highjack... back on topic please. glad we're at least back on somewhat proper grammar...

[tamtagon]

thread highjack... back on topic please. glad we're at least back on somewhat proper grammer...

grammer?

Other than pictures in books about Mexican history, is anywhere in America appropriate to house statues of Mexican Heros?

[msutton]

haha How ironic... thanks, I fixed the spelling error.

In answer to your question, I would agree that the Latino Cultural Center would be a great place for some statues of Mexican Heros. Particularly if they were to build some kind of grand adjoining park or plaza in which they could install them.

[js]

grammer?

Other than pictures in books about Mexican history, is anywhere in America appropriate to house statues of Mexican Heros?

probably not but dont be surprised to see them.
its inevitable unless the immigration is stopped. and its going to take more than a freaking wall and bunch of angry peope hunting the illegal aliens to stop the silent invasion playa.

[Insidetheloop]

Oak Cliff only includes the area originally deeded as Oak Cliff before it was annexed by the City of Dallas. No way to get around that one. Oak Cliff is rich in history and it's often diluted by crummy areas that surround it.

South Oak Cliff High School is not in Oak Cliff.

It's as silly as contemporary Frisco or Celina residents referring to their homes as being in North Dallas.

One could argue as a counterpoint that La Reunion was in Oak Cliff, but I would secede that to West Dallas too.

[gc]

probably not but dont be surprised to see them.
its inevitable unless the immigration is stopped. and its going to take more than a freaking wall and bunch of angry peope hunting the illegal aliens to stop the silent invasion playa.

What would stop it?