Joggers breaking the law.

[Boredkid]

Joggers, HP police feud over road usage
08:15 PM CST on Thursday, December 15, 2005
By KIMBERLY DURNAN / DallasNews.com
Highland Park residents are battling a unique brand of street crime: small herds of runners who they say block traffic and slow their morning commutes.
The quiet, scenic community, with its smooth roads and low crime, has long drawn area runners. And for years, Highland Park police have advised the athletes to move to the sidewalks, sometimes using sirens, lights or bullhorns to get their attention.
But police recently escalated the long-simmering feud with a stern warning: If they are going to run in the streets in groups of 30 or more, they must obtain a special events permit. Running in the street and running in a large group without a permit are both Class C misdemeanors punishable by fines of up to $500 each.
"Citizens have complained of joggers in the roadway, joggers who will not move over to allow vehicles to pass, loud talking and dogs not on a leash," wrote Darrell Fant, director of public safety, in a notice to the loosely formed Park Cities Runners.
The joggers say they are doing nothing wrong and prefer the streets to avoid such obstacles as buckled sidewalks, newspapers or low-hanging branches.
Sam Chaundhry said he broke his ankle in February 2004 after tripping on a buckled sidewalk and fell a second time later in the year and broke two fingers.
"We try to run on the street, but if there is any sign of a police officer, we get on the sidewalk," he said. "It's usually dark, the lighting is poor and the sidewalk is uneven. Many people have been injured out there, not just me."
Diane Golden, who has run with the group for 10 years, said the runners refuse to be run off, but they may consider altering the route to include the Katy Trail and to limit time in Highland Park.
"There are some residents over there who want to keep other people out of 'The Bubble,' " said Ms. Golden. "Just leave us alone. We are going for a run. What's the big deal?"
She acknowledged that the runners knew the rules but generally chose not to obey them.
The police "drive by slow and yell, 'Get on the sidewalk,' and then we do, but we get back off," Ms. Golden said. "It's just something to entertain us while we are running. Some officers are a little gung-ho and lecture us. We just laugh it off."
Highland Park police Detective Randy Millican said complaints had been increasing, particularly about the Thursday-morning run that begins at the Knox-Henderson Starbucks. Although he couldn't say exactly how many complaints had been received, he noted that 30 to 50 athletes may run six abreast during the busiest times of the day.
Highland Park Mayor Bill White said residents are mostly concerned with accidentally striking the runners because it's dark.
"The complaints I have heard is that runners did not have anything reflective on and the people came close to hitting them," he said. "I like the runners, and I used to be one myself, but they should not be in the street."
Dallas Police Chief David Kunkle, who sometimes runs with the group, said he has never heard of a city that would ticket runners on residential streets.
"I don't know of any cities in the area or country that have taken that approach," he said. "The people I see running try to be sensitive to the concerns of the neighborhood."
Highland Park isn't the only community that has battled with runners. Conflicts have also arisen in Dallas, particularly with organized training programs such as those offered by Run On, Team in Training and Luke's Locker that bring hundreds of athletes to White Rock Lake.
Luke's Locker hired Dallas police Officer Perry Skidmore to keep the peace between runners and residents in neighborhoods around the lake on Saturday mornings.
In Dallas, the policy regarding pedestrian sidewalk use is to enforce state law, but it's not a priority, Officer Skidmore said.
In neighborhoods around White Rock Lake, for example, some people run through the streets at 5 a.m. and cause no problems, he said.
"Most officers aren't going to write that ticket unless there are extenuating circumstances," Officer Skidmore said. "At the lake, they can be in the street facing traffic because there is not a sidewalk."
Officer Skidmore, who is also a runner, said he gives orientations to running groups to explain state laws, traffic safety and common courtesies when sharing the road with cyclists and vehicles.
"Any time you get motor vehicles, runners and cyclists in on one spot, you are going to have people upset about how things are going," he said. "That's why we are trying to do everything we are supposed to do by law and courtesy."
Sometimes joggers get distracted and end up in the middle of the road, so the coaches yell at them to keep them out of traffic.
"Runners are runners, and if you are doing a 20-mile run and you are coming down Lakewood [Boulevard], your head may not be where it's supposed to be, but they try," Officer Skidmore said. "And when they don't, we hammer them."
Detective Millican said some runners hurt their own cause. One recent morning on the way to work, he honked at a woman who was running down a Highland Park street. She responded with an obscene gesture.
"I've had runners shoot me the finger, bang on the hood of my car," he said. "I'm not trying to be overly disrespectful, but it's a problem, and we get telephone complaints regularly. They are holding up traffic. If you stop and talk to them they are nice, but they don't understand."
Ms. Golden said motorists aren't always in the right, either.
"There may be one car coming, and they will hug the curve to force us to move over," she said. "They are mad. They will honk their horn and flash their lights. It would be no big deal for them to drive around."
Rebecca Wallace, who co-owns Run On, said she tries to avoid guiding runners through Highland Park, but its central location makes it difficult. She recalled an evening when she drove a van behind a group of about 30 athletes who were taking in the Christmas lights and decorations. A police officer pulled her over and told her she could not stay without a special events permit, Ms. Wallace said.
"Highland Park is the most runner-unfriendly," she said. "I guess it's kind of the Highland Park attitude."
E-mail kdurnan@dallasnews.com

[Boredkid]

Thought it was odd that pollice officers came forward and said they were part of these groups. They are doing something illegal and could lose their jobs for this.

[Dallasite]

These type of runners are a menace to society. They really need to get out of the way when there are cars on the roads. The streets are for cars. I have had seen two people take up the whole road. Then if you honk they act like you are in the wrong! Someone needs to teach them road etiquette. I am all for the tickets and I don't live in HP!!!!

The other thing that bugs me is when I am riding my bike around the lake and they take up the whole road. Do they not realize that they could get run over or hurt if a bike gets out of control? They are harder to maneuver than feet.

I also run, but I use the sidewalks and get out of the way if someone else is around.

[Boredkid]

Isnt this is why we built katy trail. To get people off the streets and onto safe paths.

[Dallasite]

YES!!!! Maybe they need to design HOV lanes for runners and another one for bikers! :)

[Boredkid]

Dont know if there is enough room left to build those on the trail.

[carousel]

YES!!!! Maybe they need to design HOV lanes for runners and another one for bikers! :)

That would be nice. My fiancee is from the bay area and her almost every street in her town has bicycle/joggers lanes.

[Insidetheloop]

Thought it was odd that pollice officers came forward and said they were part of these groups. They are doing something illegal and could lose their jobs for this.

Officer Perry is a cool guy. His "beat" is the west side of White Rock Lake and he usually hangs out in his cruiser in the TP Hill parking lot when he's not patrolling. He's a great police officer and knows every inch of the lake, the park and Lakewood. Very nice guy and one of the best cops in Dallas. He's a big advocate for running, cycling, little kids, doggies, ducks etc. On the other hand, he has a near zero tolerance for people driving fast in cars, loud music or people drinking. He will bust your balls.

As an avid runner and cyclist in the Park Cities, I have noticed that people are first rate asshats in the Park Cities to people on foot or on a bike. Like the article mentioned they will swerve to intimidate you, honk, yell and cuss. These are folks in $80,000 cars. Grown-up adults. It's odd but I have never been run off the road by a HP high school kid or SMU student. It's always been adults over 40. These are the people that DO NOT stop at any of the Katy Trail crossings and plow through there over 30mph even with kids in the crosswalk.

Who do these people think they are kidding? They yell some vile stuff at me and on occasion I will turn around and chase them down at the next stop sign. One good solid tug on their drivers side door to invite them out for a "discussion" quickly turns their attitude.

Riding from HP to the lake, I will usually take McCommas. As a contrast, I have never had any problems, not one, riding or running in the street in Lakewood or the M-Streets. Not one. People are alot nicer over there.

I'm sure there are problem joggers and cyclists that give others a bad rap. People who wear all black outfits to run in at night or people who disregard stop signs. But otherwise it's harmless.

[Boredkid]

Back when I was in highschool and living in HP I would honk at the runners in the street. Streets are built for cars. Sidewalks are built for people.

[Insidetheloop]

Back when I was in highschool and living in HP I would honk at the runners in the street. Streets are built for cars. Sidewalks are built for people.

You and I both know that streets are built for cars and folks on foot. Especially in HP. People are just pricks.

Have you walked on a sidewalk lately in HP? Most are uneven and broken up due to the tree roots that are pushing up. It's too hard to run on the sidewalks. Since many streets in HP are not "crowned" it's easy just to run in the 36 inches or so next to the curb. Also the sidewalks in HP are concrete which is hard on the legs and the streets are mostly asphalt which is a little softer material. That's why many favor the street.

It's not like people are driving from the suburbs to run down there and dick up some house frau's 3 block commute to take Dakota and Madison to soccer practice. It's neighbors vs. neighbors. One on foot and the other in a 3000 pound cruise missile.

[Boredkid]

Alot of the people running though HP do not live there. Once you live there, you will understand. Traffic already sucks and joggers just make it worse. The worst thing is during christmas and all the cars puttering around looking at the lights.

[Insidetheloop]

Alot of the people running though HP do not live there. Once you live there, you will understand. Traffic already sucks and joggers just make it worse. The worst thing is during christmas and all the cars puttering around looking at the lights.

I live in The Bubble. The "regulars" I see out jogging are people who live in the Park Cities.

The Christmas Light gawkers=people in cars. My grandmother could walk faster than they drive.

[CEHughes]

ISL:

If you tug on my driver's side door -- I will shoot you. Repeatedly.

Sincerely,
CEHughes

[drumguy8800]

It's not like people are driving from the suburbs to run down there and dick up some house frau's 3 block commute to take Dakota and Madison to soccer practice. It's neighbors vs. neighbors. One on foot and the other in a 3000 pound cruise missile.I love Park Cities threads.

[monogodo]

Park Cities residents get no sympathy from me.

And Boredkid, would you be so kind as to provide links to the law that states that roads/streets are built solely for the use of automobiles, and nothing else?

[hamiltonpl]

would you be so kind as to provide links to the law that states that roads/streets are built solely for the use of automobiles, and nothing else?

USE OF SIDEWALK
Texas Transportation Code § 552.006
A pedestrian may not walk along and on a roadway if an adjacent sidewalk is provided and is accessible to the pedestrian.

acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995

[TexasStar]

Maybe, if they got their humongous asses out of their cars and jogged a bit ...
perhaps, they might not be such humungous asses.

[monogodo]

USE OF SIDEWALK
Texas Transportation Code § 552.006
A pedestrian may not walk along and on a roadway if an adjacent sidewalk is provided and is accessible to the pedestrian.

acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995
Thanks for doing his work for him.

This is the part I have a problem with:

Streets are built for cars.
Bicycles are allowed on the road, are allowed to ride two-abreast, and are allowed to take up the entire lane.

I also noticed that the code you posted states that they may not walk along it. The joggers/runners are not walking, they are jogging or running.

I do think the runners are taking it a bit far, and should be willing to move out of the way of traffic, but I have no problem, and see no problem, with them running on the road.

[Bru]

I am an active runner in the Park Cities area and I've seen a few incidents that leave me shaking my head. The groups I've been a part of in that area are respectful, stay to the left (facing traffic), and rarely run more than two abreast. Yes, occasionally folks wander away from the curbs, but anytime vehicles approach they're quick to move back towards the curb and yield ROW. On one such occasion, an a-hole in a suburban intentionally (and completely unnecessarily) hugged the curb nearly hitting a guy several yards in front of me. The runner slapped his suburban, so he promptly whipped the car around to jaw at him for a while. I thought I was going to see a good ol' fashioned street brawl!

I don't understand what the big deal is. Most runners are out there between 6-7am while most are still asleep, and I've never noticed much vehicular "traffic". I believe some of these "bubble" people have extreme paranoia. If proposed, I'm sure a 20-foot high wall around the Park Cities with armed guards at the gates would pass.

[Lakewooder]

I believe some of these "bubble" people have extreme paranoia. If proposed, I'm sure a 20-foot high wall around the Park Cities with armed guards at the gates would pass.

Then we could charge them to get out...

[Bryant]

I run regularly and use the sidewalk at all times possible. If you don't like broken sidewalks, find another neighborhood, use a treadmill, or find a park and learn cross-country. Stay OFF the road for the sake of others, and especially your own!

[WestTexan]

What a silly waste of time for the HPPD to get in to a power struggle with a bunch of runners. Runners are a very minor nuisance on the roadways. A lot more pedestrians could be saved by promoting and enforcing slow alert driving in residential neighborhoods versus kicking runners off the road.

Besides, the last thing we need to do in this country is take action against a group participating in a healthy lifestyle. Fatassness is an pandemic killing millions each year and the HPPD is directly contributing to the problem!

[Aporkalypse]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ban groups of 30 running in the street without a permit to organize and blocking both lanes. That is completely assinine, anywhere in the city.

I run as well, by myself and I use the sidewalk. Nobody gets pissed about that. There's nothing wrong with running, there's just something wrong with being an idiot about it.

That said, if Highland Park wasn't so insistent on keeping major roads like Mockingbird and Lover's Lanes narrowed down to 2 lanes this would be far less of a problem. I thought it was humorously ironic that what irritated the rest of the city would come back to irritate them.

[WestTexan]

I run as well, by myself and I use the sidewalk. Nobody gets pissed about that. There's nothing wrong with running, there's just something wrong with being an idiot about it.


I've run with groups all over town, including the one mentioned in the article. Over many years, I'm yet to experience any "idiots" blocking traffic. This entire thing is completely over-blown. We are talking about a group of adults exercising and socializing in residential neighborhoods. I don't think anyone has really been damaged by this activity. It just gives bored cops and a very few malcontent neighbors something to bitch about. Get a life.

[Dallasite]

I don't understand what the big deal is. Most runners are out there between 6-7am while most are still asleep, and I've never noticed much vehicular "traffic".

My husband and I both begin our commute between 6 - 7 am, so there is traffic out on the roads. (I don't live over there, but still...)

Runners should not be blocking traffic ever. If the runners are concerned that sidewalks are buckled and are obstacles, what makes them think that the runners are not obstacles for cars. I would much rather trip over a buckled sidewalk than get hit by a car!!

I think the Highland Park people have a valid concern this time. The runners in that article come off as asses!

[jdwillis]

Alot of the people running though HP do not live there. Once you live there, you will understand. Traffic already sucks and joggers just make it worse. The worst thing is during christmas and all the cars puttering around looking at the lights.

Let me just state upfront that we DO NOT live in Highland Park, although we have family members who do!:~)

In the lesser streets in HP there are plenty of joggers. From their uniform (or is it uniformed?) appearance, these particular joggers do indeed live in HP. What's interesting about these joggers we regularaly see is they mostly jog on the sidewalks!

And you are incorrect in one thing. Entirely incorrect. The worst thing in HP this time of year isn't joggers or too many SUVs or the slow drivers looking at lights, it is those dang blasted horse drawn carriages with people looking at Christmas lights!:~)

[Aporkalypse]

I've run with groups all over town, including the one mentioned in the article. Over many years, I'm yet to experience any "idiots" blocking traffic. This entire thing is completely over-blown. We are talking about a group of adults exercising and socializing in residential neighborhoods. I don't think anyone has really been damaged by this activity. It just gives bored cops and a very few malcontent neighbors something to bitch about. Get a life.

A little defensive, eh? Is it possible, just maybe, that other groups aren't as considerate?

[trolleygirl]

Thought it was odd that pollice officers came forward and said they were part of these groups. They are doing something illegal and could lose their jobs for this.

The Chief of Police for the City Dallas is qouted in the article as a frequent runner with these groups!!!

Hahahahahahaha!!!

Anyway, on a slightly more serious note, the real problem that we have in this city is that there are runners and cyclists and walking groups out here, organizing if even only loosely. What does that tell us? Both White Rock Lake and the Katy Trail are packed on the weekends and it's very difficult to actually get any excercise out there on the weekends. People are finding altrenatives. To me, people are showing a demand for more areas in which to walk, run or cycle. And the supply isn't coming fast enough.

The last thing we need- because it isn't sustainable- is more concrete. We don't need to add extra 12' lanes to all the streets. What we need is a serious trail network. Yesterday, the Trail Doctors came to Dallas to do a presentation for Groundwork Dallas. We started building our first trail in the Great Trinity Forest. And it's going to link to a network of hundreds of miles of trails. Well at some point in the future. The biggest challenge is funding.

Anyway, soft-surface trails instead of concrete are beter for runners and they are more sustainable for the environment and also more adventurous for cyclers.

I am not a runner and I'm not a member of DORBA, but I do ride my bicycle for excersice and my neighborhood has a walking group. The walking group generally meets between 6a and 7a and we do walk four abreast in the street. We never get complaints, in fact our biggest problem is neighbors stopping to say hi and chat. Imagine that, friendly neighbors impeding our daily walking routines with hospitality!! HP could learn from this little (gasp!) SOUTH DALLAS neighborhood.

One last comment: the reason sidewalks are not good choices for runners is because simply, they are not big enough. When you run you do not look at your feet. And you need more than three feet of space. Why do you think hard surface trails are always 12 feet wide? I don't know why, but I do know that they are. I think it might phycological. I'll tell you, when I walk and cycle, I do not want to be on the sidewalk. I feel like my line of sight is better when I'm in the street and it makes me feel safer.

And yes, the Parkies in the article are stuck-up tightwads. They just don't like outsiders coming into the bubble and it's painfully clear. I would love to see runners in my hood- extra eyes and ears on the streets = less crime.

[LakeHighlands]

I can relate to those people who are driving in Highland Park. I have to put up with this stuff on regular basics except I think it is far worst on Lawther. Trolleygirl, I do not think adding trails will help.

Right now, there are tons of bicyclists and runners using Lawther! For the love of God, I can not figure out why these people do not use the trail. I can understand if there wasn’t a trail there, but there is a BIKE TRAIL right next to the road. There will be groups of 10 or more cyclist riding on Lawther, hogging the road. To make matters worst, the road has lots of bends, no shoulder, some people jog on the road, and then there are people sight seeing or what ever the hell they are doing driving 5mph. Is it too much to ask, for people to drive 20mph! (The speed limit). It is sheer madness, sometimes! I try to avoid using Lawther whenever possible. This pisses me off almost as much as slower drivers in the left lane on the freeway.

THERE IS A BIKE TRAIL. USE IT!!! I would like them to pass an ordinance banning bicyclists and joggers from using Lawther. They need to use the trail. That is why we have a trail. Hell, they should blow up the trail if people aren’t going to use it.

Earlier this year, a cyclist collided into my son’s car on Lawther. It wasn’t my son fault either. The cops, fire trucks, and ambulance came. The cyclist was riding on one side of Lawther and all of a sudden decided to cross the road and he and my son collided. The cyclist wasn’t hurt too badly, had some cuts and burses. His bike was total. My son was shaken up and on his car the hood was damage and the front bumper. My son was very upset, and he told me everything that happened. I was pissed; these bicyclists need to use the trail! If don’t care about cars on the road at least for their own safely they need to use the bike trail. I have had a few close calls myself and I have seen some bad accidents over here with cars and bicyclists. THAT IS WHY THERE IS A BIKE TRAIL, USE IT!!! I feel better now, had to vent some of my anger :firegrin: ; I’ll get to my other stuff later.

[monogodo]

As a formerly avid cyclist, I can answer why cyclists don't use the trail around WRL.

It's not safe. When cyclists train, they are riding at speeds well over 15mph, and the elite riders in the area are riding at speeds closer to 30mph. Those speeds are very dangerous when mixed with walkers and joggers and people with dogs. Legally they can ride on the road, up to two-abreast. Granted, when riding in a pack they're usually more than two-abreast, but it's safer for them to be on the street than to be on the trail. Even when riding alone, I'll ride on the street rather than than the trail, for safety reasons.

This past spring, my wife and I started cycling. We'd ride through downtown to the south end of the Katy trail, and ride its length. We ended up giving up on it after a couple of weeks because we couldn't get any kind of workout. We had to keep slowing down to less than walking speeds to avoid the dogs and small children and packs of walkers and joggers. We ended up finding a nice quiet area that we were able to use until the State Fair started up. If there were cycling-specific trails, where only cyclists were allowed, I'd use them. They would have to be at least 9-12 feet wide. The reason is each direction needs at least 3', plus additional space for passing.

While you may not think adding trails will help, LH, not adding them will be sure to not help.

As a cyclist who used to commute by bike, I'm also against bike lanes. I'd much rather ride on a standard street than in a bike lane. Most cyclists feel the same way. Check out BikeForums (http://www.bikeforums.net/index.php) if you don't believe me.

Yes, there will always be idiot cyclists/runners out there that make the rest of us look bad. I cringe every time I see a cyclist blow through a red light. Not every cyclits or runner behaves badly.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Anyway, on a slightly more serious note, the real problem that we have in this city is that there are runners and cyclists and walking groups out here, organizing if even only loosely. What does that tell us? Both White Rock Lake and the Katy Trail are packed on the weekends and it's very difficult to actually get any excercise out there on the weekends. People are finding altrenatives. To me, people are showing a demand for more areas in which to walk, run or cycle. And the supply isn't coming fast enough.

The last thing we need- because it isn't sustainable- is more concrete. We don't need to add extra 12' lanes to all the streets. What we need is a serious trail network. Yesterday, the Trail Doctors came to Dallas to do a presentation for Groundwork Dallas. We started building our first trail in the Great Trinity Forest. And it's going to link to a network of hundreds of miles of trails. Well at some point in the future. The biggest challenge is funding.

Anyway, soft-surface trails instead of concrete are beter for runners and they are more sustainable for the environment and also more adventurous for cyclers.

I am not a runner and I'm not a member of DORBA, but I do ride my bicycle for excersice and my neighborhood has a walking group. The walking group generally meets between 6a and 7a and we do walk four abreast in the street. We never get complaints, in fact our biggest problem is neighbors stopping to say hi and chat. Imagine that, friendly neighbors impeding our daily walking routines with hospitality!! HP could learn from this little (gasp!) SOUTH DALLAS neighborhood.

One last comment: the reason sidewalks are not good choices for runners is because simply, they are not big enough. When you run you do not look at your feet. And you need more than three feet of space. Why do you think hard surface trails are always 12 feet wide? I don't know why, but I do know that they are. I think it might phycological. I'll tell you, when I walk and cycle, I do not want to be on the sidewalk. I feel like my line of sight is better when I'm in the street and it makes me feel safer.

And yes, the Parkies in the article are stuck-up tightwads. They just don't like outsiders coming into the bubble and it's painfully clear. I would love to see runners in my hood- extra eyes and ears on the streets = less crime.



I agree 100%. I'll take my bike from Irving to work in Uptown on occasion and sometimes will go a little out of the way to the Katy Trail for a little safety. I also prefer the sidewalk, when it is in good shape. Bad sidewalks are dangerous and forces me to the street. I try to stay as far to the edge as possible, but even on three-lane Irving Blvd., there will be the jerk who won't move over when they could or try to crowd me over.

[Insidetheloop]

I can relate to those people who are driving in Highland Park. I have to put up with this stuff on regular basics except I think it is far worst on Lawther. Trolleygirl, I do not think adding trails will help.

Right now, there are tons of bicyclists and runners using Lawther! For the love of God, I can not figure out why these people do not use the trail. I can understand if there wasn’t a trail there, but there is a BIKE TRAIL right next to the road. There will be groups of 10 or more cyclist riding on Lawther, hogging the road. To make matters worst, the road has lots of bends, no shoulder, some people jog on the road, and then there are people sight seeing or what ever the hell they are doing driving 5mph. Is it too much to ask, for people to drive 20mph! (The speed limit). It is sheer madness, sometimes! I try to avoid using Lawther whenever possible. This pisses me off almost as much as slower drivers in the left lane on the freeway.

THERE IS A BIKE TRAIL. USE IT!!! I would like them to pass an ordinance banning bicyclists and joggers from using Lawther. They need to use the trail. That is why we have a trail. Hell, they should blow up the trail if people aren’t going to use it.

Earlier this year, a cyclist collided into my son’s car on Lawther. It wasn’t my son fault either. The cops, fire trucks, and ambulance came. The cyclist was riding on one side of Lawther and all of a sudden decided to cross the road and he and my son collided. The cyclist wasn’t hurt too badly, had some cuts and burses. His bike was total. My son was shaken up and on his car the hood was damage and the front bumper. My son was very upset, and he told me everything that happened. I was pissed; these bicyclists need to use the trail! If don’t care about cars on the road at least for their own safely they need to use the bike trail. I have had a few close calls myself and I have seen some bad accidents over here with cars and bicyclists. THAT IS WHY THERE IS A BIKE TRAIL, USE IT!!! I feel better now, had to vent some of my anger :firegrin: ; I’ll get to my other stuff later.

Have you gotten your Jane Dolkart fan club packet in the mail yet?

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8863/jdolkart15nn.jpg

She was officially cannonized by Bill Hill's office as the "Patron Saint of Asshole Drivers on Lawther" and unofficially the "Patron Saint of Asshole Drivers on Hillcrest". She is your hero. Your Joan of Arc. Your Anne Frank. Your Rosa Parks. Your Oprah. I hear she is working off her time at KERA, one mind numbing pledge drive at a time. Maybe you could go down there and answer phones for $35 tote bags or peddle some Rick Steve's DVDs to help her out.

I will yield to vehicle traffic almost anywhere in town except for one area. White Rock Lake. The lake is not for cars, vehicles, motorcycles. It's for people on foot, bicycle and rollerblades. Not cars. It's a park. Dorks who speed down Lawther, do not pay attention to traffic on Lawther or yell things at cyclists and runners will be offered no quarter by me. I've had numerous confrontations there with drivers who simply do not get it. I relish catching people who force cyclists off the road around the lake. Tall, strong, gorgeous and sweaty, no man dare step to me out of their car. They realize the moment they see me at their car door, that if they step, that they will be waking up in a strange bed, hospital bed. Jesus will not slow the beatdown. While I'm sucking down martinis later that night, they will be sucking on their thumb in a coma at the Parkland ER.

Many cyclists have been killed on the 4km Time Trial route on the west side of the lake. On average one per year is killed. Probably the most well known is Miji Reoch who was killed by a driver about 400 yards north of Mount Vernon. She was an Olympic athlete. She was hit with such force that her bike was propelled 125 ft into the lake. I can list dozens of people that I know that have been hit by car drivers around the lake. Dozens.

The last death I know of involving a cyclist occured this fall at the spillway, on the bike path itself. The bike path is much more dangerous due to other folks at the lake who are not paying attention to oncoming traffic. The road is much safer.

As others mentioned, the KATY Trail is just too popular and crowded to really get a quality workout in. The girls are just too damn hot and their little doggies too small to navigate through there even on foot.

Insidetheloop,

"Baditude"

[Columbus Civil]

Maybe they should close Lawther to motorized vehicular traffic..?? I've driven through there a few times to get to the parking lots, and it's not a safe place for bicycles and cars to coexist. From my experience, blame can be spread around to automobile drivers and cyclists just about equally.

[Insidetheloop]

Maybe they should close Lawther to motorized vehicular traffic..?? I've driven through there a few times to get to the parking lots, and it's not a safe place for bicycles and cars to coexist. From my experience, blame can be spread around to automobile drivers and cyclists just about equally.

That has been discussed before during the late 1970's when the barricades were put up to prevent people from cruising the east side of the lake. It won't work on the west side because some of the homes only have access via Lawther. It would actually only affect about 18 homes...but those homes are owned by some powerful folks including a park board member who lives at Lawther and Dalgreen.

[VectorWega]

If you don't have enough room to do the ol' faithful hit the gas, swerve, and brake hard then I recommend just giving them a little nudge. Nothing serious enough to dent your car, but just something to let them know that you're a reasonable individual that is letting them off easy and they should recognize your compassion and stay off your streets because a person can only be so forgiving before he is forced to rectify the situation himself.

[UrbanHope]

Living in Knox-Henderson, I try to be courteous when people are crossing on the Katy Trail in the two spots where it cuts across the street. Sometimes, I almost get rear-ended by people who have no intentions of stopping. I always try to be courteous to walkers/runners and bikers.

BUT, it does get ridiculous sometimes in that area, including in HP. Sometimes the bikers or runners act like no one else can use the road. To run 4 or 5 across on any street is absurd. The drivers need to lighten up, but the bikers and joggers need to get a reality check as well.

[jdwillis]

I will yield to vehicle traffic almost anywhere in town except for one area. White Rock Lake. The lake is not for cars, vehicles, motorcycles. It's for people on foot, bicycle and rollerblades. Not cars. It's a park. Dorks who speed down Lawther, do not pay attention to traffic on Lawther or yell things at cyclists and runners will be offered no quarter by me. I've had numerous confrontations there with drivers who simply do not get it. I relish catching people who force cyclists off the road around the lake. Tall, strong, gorgeous and sweaty, no man dare step to me out of their car. They realize the moment they see me at their car door, that if they step, that they will be waking up in a strange bed, hospital bed. Jesus will not slow the beatdown. While I'm sucking down martinis later that night, they will be sucking on their thumb in a coma at the Parkland ER.
<snip>
"Baditude"


Hopefully you will continue to enjoy your bad attitude for a long time. I can see a scenario where, alas, that is not the case.

Bicycles and runners and walkers and cars. Four different modes of getting around, each with different, and somewhat mutually exclusive, requirements. Is there any wonder there is friction where they all meet?

Getting into fights with people who only want to get home before their ice cream melts won't help. Acting like a bad-ass (while showing your ass) won't help. When you are on a piece of equipment that weighs a fraction of your own body weight, and you want to argue with someone whose driving skills are unknown to you and is in possession of a multi-ton piece of equipment, well, I think the reality of the situation speaks for itself, don't you?

The solution? As usual, it is political. Make those few homeowners around the lake your friends.They are the ones with the clout to realize (as in to make real) the solution. Different facilities will then be built. I seem to remember Ford having to spend some major money to fix a relatively minor tire problem a while back that probably killed as many people as those around the Lake. Surely some sort of compromise can be reached.

Threatening to injure, maim, hospitalize, or kill motorists who are paying for the privilige (through vehicle registration, driver's licenses, state mandated inspections, and gasoline and other taxes) of driving on public streets (unlike bicyclists) is not the course of action I would recommend to anyone...unless you relish the entirely real possibility of ending up in that same spot yourself!:~(

[Aporkalypse]

I expect it on Lawther, plus I never really use Lawther to get anywhere - I just cruise down in and look at the lake every once in a while. It winds too much to be effective as a through street, anyway. I think that's different than clogging up major routes at rush hour.

Now, the bikes doing the same thing on Mockingbird, which sometimes happens, is different.

[jdwillis]

I expect it on Lawther, plus I never really use Lawther to get anywhere - I just cruise down in and look at the lake every once in a while. It winds too much to be effective as a through street, anyway. I think that's different than clogging up major routes at rush hour.

Now, the bikes doing the same thing on Mockingbird, which sometimes happens, is different.

I'll put it a little more bluntly. Watching someone play tag with a multi-ton vehicle while riding a bicycle that may weigh only a few pounds is a lot like seeing evolution in action.

The same may be said of people who ride motorcycles, although the difference is less extreme since a motorcycle has performance abilities all bicycles and many cars lack that allow an experienced and accomplished rider to escape what may otherwise be a deadly encounter with those land-yacht SUVs.

On the other hand, this is a free country (more or less) and people may choose to ride a bicycle on Mockingbird Lane at five o-clock in the evening any day of the week. So long as their health insurance is in good order, I don't mind, as it is their own lives they are putting at high risk.

As for the lake traffic, if you drive down there even once you learn what to expect. All kinds of idiots on the road using all kinds of transportation. It stops being a nice place at that point and it begins to be a place to avoid. Why? Because of all the bad attitudes.

[monogodo]

It's legal for a bicyclist to ride on Mockingbird at any time of day or night, regardless of the fact that they don't pay licensing fees or registration fees or any other fees other than sales tax when the purchased their bicycle, and regardless of their level of health insurance (or lack thereof). They are classified as motor vehicles, and are subject to the same laws as cars/trucks/SUVs, and should be accorded the same courtesies. This includes the right to the entire lane. If you're going to pass a bicycle, you should do so with the same care and consideration you'd give a motorcycle or car. Bicyclists are to ride as far to the right of their lane as is safe and practicable. As a cyclist, I will decide where in the lane is safe for me to ride. If that's a couple feet to the right of the center line, then that's where I'm going to ride. If you don't like it, take it up with the Texas Legislature and have them change the law.

The mere fact that you're here discussing this leads me to believe that you're not one of the a-hole drivers out there. If you were, you wouldn't care enough to discuss the topic. (By you I mean the plural you, not anyone in specific.)

[Columbus Civil]

From the Texas Legal Code (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/tn.toc.htm):


§ 551.103. OPERATION ON ROADWAY. (a) Except as
provided by Subsection (b), a person operating a bicycle on a
roadway who is moving slower than the other traffic on the roadway
shall ride as near as practicable to the right curb or edge of the
roadway, unless:
(1) the person is passing another vehicle moving in
the same direction;
(2) the person is preparing to turn left at an
intersection or onto a private road or driveway;
(3) a condition on or of the roadway, including a fixed
or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, pedestrian, animal, or
surface hazard prevents the person from safely riding next to the
right curb or edge of the roadway; or
(4) the person is operating a bicycle in an outside
lane that is:
(A) less than 14 feet in width and does not have a
designated bicycle lane adjacent to that lane; or
(B) too narrow for a bicycle and a motor vehicle
to safely travel side by side.
(b) A person operating a bicycle on a one-way roadway with
two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near as practicable to
the left curb or edge of the roadway.
(c) Persons operating bicycles on a roadway may ride two
abreast. Persons riding two abreast on a laned roadway shall ride
in a single lane. Persons riding two abreast may not impede the
normal and reasonable flow of traffic on the roadway. Persons may
not ride more than two abreast unless they are riding on a part of a
roadway set aside for the exclusive operation of bicycles.
(d) Repealed by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1085, § 13,
eff. Sept. 1, 2001.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended
by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1085, § 10, 13, eff. Sept. 1, 2001.

[Columbus Civil]

I see this one broken a lot around White Rock Lake:


(c) Persons operating bicycles on a roadway may ride two
abreast. Persons riding two abreast on a laned roadway shall ride
in a single lane. Persons riding two abreast may not impede the
normal and reasonable flow of traffic on the roadway. Persons may
not ride more than two abreast unless they are riding on a part of a
roadway set aside for the exclusive operation of bicycles.

But, like mentioned above, there are knuckleheads on both sides of this issue.

[Insidetheloop]

If you don't have enough room to do the ol' faithful hit the gas, swerve, and brake hard then I recommend just giving them a little nudge. Nothing serious enough to dent your car, but just something to let them know that you're a reasonable individual that is letting them off easy and they should recognize your compassion and stay off your streets because a person can only be so forgiving before he is forced to rectify the situation himself.

"I just wanted to you know, scare him and tap him with my car"

--Jane Dolkart, convicted felon, testifying in her defense during her felony assault with a deadly Passat trial.

[jdwillis]

Sounds like it was a case of double stupidity.

[Aporkalypse]

I'll put it a little more bluntly. Watching someone play tag with a multi-ton vehicle while riding a bicycle that may weigh only a few pounds is a lot like seeing evolution in action.

The same may be said of people who ride motorcycles, although the difference is less extreme since a motorcycle has performance abilities all bicycles and many cars lack that allow an experienced and accomplished rider to escape what may otherwise be a deadly encounter with those land-yacht SUVs.

On the other hand, this is a free country (more or less) and people may choose to ride a bicycle on Mockingbird Lane at five o-clock in the evening any day of the week. So long as their health insurance is in good order, I don't mind, as it is their own lives they are putting at high risk.

As for the lake traffic, if you drive down there even once you learn what to expect. All kinds of idiots on the road using all kinds of transportation. It stops being a nice place at that point and it begins to be a place to avoid. Why? Because of all the bad attitudes.


You're right. I have seen too many of the car vs bike accidents in the ER to keep me from every taking a bike on a major road.


...and I play rugby for God's sake.

[TexasStar]

If you don't have enough room to do the ol' faithful hit the gas, swerve, and brake hard then I recommend just giving them a little nudge. Nothing serious enough to dent your car, but just something to let them know that you're a reasonable individual that is letting them off easy and they should recognize your compassion and stay off your streets because a person can only be so forgiving before he is forced to rectify the situation himself.

And it's attitudes like that, unfortunately prevalent among local motoroists, that keeps my Trek 1000 safely stored in the garage.

[VectorWega]

And it's attitudes like that, unfortunately prevalent among local motoroists, that keeps my Trek 1000 safely stored in the garage.

Well, at least you are getting good use out of it. LoL

Anyways, don't get your bicycle shorts in a wad. I was referring to nudging pedestrians, not cyclists.

[monogodo]

^ So you'd prefer aggrivated assault charges instead of being delayed every now and then?

[Columbus Civil]

There needs to be more civility on the roadways, whether or not cyclists and pedestrians are involved.

[Boredkid]

Jacquielynn Floyd:
Runs elicit HP-style road rage
08:59 AM CST on Tuesday, December 20, 2005
It's a little like snickering over the marital foibles of zillionaire movie stars, but I find a keen if slightly embarrassing source of amusement in the ongoing clash between the residents of Highland Park and the hordes of joggers drawn to its sylvan byways. In a struggle between the conspicuously wealthy and the ostentatiously healthy, how do you pick a side?
In this particular case, Park Cities residents have been complaining that runners, many of them from other parts of town, are obstructing residential traffic by jogging through the streets in packs of 30 or more. They say the roadways are for cars, and that pedestrians are relegated by law to the sidewalks.

For their part, the runners – some of them, anyway – are cheerfully defiant, saying the crummy condition of the sidewalks poses too many hazards, and that residents who want them off the streets are being selfish and exclusionary.
Since I live in the suburbs and exercise at the gym, I don't really have a team to pick here. But based on comments I've read, some of the runners seem to believe the virtue of their enterprise should exempt them from legal constraints, even common courtesy.
One runner sounded as if she enjoys playing cat-and-mouse with the Highland Park police, who order joggers out of the street and onto the sidewalk.
"It's just something to entertain us while we are running," she said loftily. "Some officers are a little gung-ho and lecture us. We just laugh it off."
Pretty funny! In another case, a policeman on his way to work reported honking at a woman runner to move out of the roadway. She answered by shooting the finger at him, and I have to admire the cop's forbearance in not hauling her off to the pokey.
Listen, I can understand the many readers who answered a DallasNews.com Web site survey question on this topic by asking whether we don't have more important issues to address.
"If that is the apex of their problems, then I'd gladly trade places with any resident there!" one annoyed reader said.
"Y'all rich white folks [are] comical," wrote another. "I would have thought this was a joke story if I did not know you are being for real." The writer invited joggers to transfer their daily run to his South Dallas neighborhood: "We do not even have sidewalks, so everyone walks in the streets."
He's got a point. But a surprising number of respondents took heated sides in this debate. Clearly, this topic pokes an exposed nerve: The public-use clash between drivers and pedestrians or cyclists is a political headache in neighborhoods and cities all over.
Motorists claim, with reason, that most streets were designed to accommodate cars, and that other uses impede traffic and create hazards. Runners and cyclists claim, with reason (and with the self-awarded virtue of the physically fit) that they pay taxes and should share access to the right-of-way. And, they add, it won't kill drivers to slow down for half a block.
If that doesn't sound like earth-shaking news right now, it will be when somebody gets injured or killed in one of these skirmishes over limited pavement space.
I'll tell you where this isn't a problem: my neighborhood. I live in the suburbs, in the kind of town often (and erroneously) derided as bland, soulless, selfish and white as Wonder Bread.
One thing we do have, though, is a handsome, well-maintained system of broad running and biking trails winding through a series of gorgeous greenbelts. You can roam all over town without having to compete with the vehicles. We even have Starbucks, since no human endeavor is truly worthwhile until it is celebrated with a $4 cup of coffee.
Dallas runners are fighting for space in neighborhoods designed and built back when most people didn't run at all unless they were trying to catch a train. In my neighborhood – dare I sound a little smug here? – the city planners reserved the prettiest views for people who wanted to get outdoors and take them in.
It takes the foresight of planning to accommodate everybody, an option many older cities just don't have. In the short run (so to speak), both runners and drivers need to ratchet down their ire and try to be considerate.
Otherwise, somebody will get hurt. And that's not funny at all.
E-mail jfloyd@dallasnews.com