Best local new urbanist development?

[gtaylor1]

<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>What do YOU think is the best local built/under construction product of human-scale urban development in DFW?</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Results (total votes = 68):</FONT><table bgcolor=#FFFFFF border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0 width="75%">
<tbody>
<tr><td bgcolor="#ffffff" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#ffffff><TD NOWRAP>
<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Addison Circle (Addison, Tx)</FONT>&nbsp</td>
<td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>10&nbsp;/&nbsp;14.7%</FONT>&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=44 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr>
<tr><td bgcolor="#ffffff" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#ffffff><TD NOWRAP>
<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Cityplace-West Village</FONT>&nbsp</td>
<td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>30&nbsp;/&nbsp;44.1%</FONT>&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=132 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr>
<tr><td bgcolor="#ffffff" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#ffffff><TD NOWRAP>
<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Victory Development</FONT>&nbsp</td>
<td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>20&nbsp;/&nbsp;29.4%</FONT>&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=88 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr>
<tr><td bgcolor="#ffffff" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#ffffff><TD NOWRAP>
<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Galatyn Park Urban Ctr. (Richardson, TX)</FONT>&nbsp</td>
<td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>2&nbsp;/&nbsp;2.9%</FONT>&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=8 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr>
<tr><td bgcolor="#ffffff" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#ffffff><TD NOWRAP>
<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Other (if so, please reply to the thread separately!)</FONT>&nbsp</td>
<td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>6&nbsp;/&nbsp;8.8%</FONT>&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=26 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr>
<tr><td bgcolor="#ffffff" colspan=3 height=1></tr></tbody>
</table>

[rhianre]

I like this post!

[rhianre]

Why am I up so early before work?!!! Sorry, just had to say that!

[jsoto3]

dallas riverfront (my thesis)
hopefully i can make it come true

[allenedavis]

I know there are only 5 slots on a poll, it must've been hard to decide what to include. Still a solid polling.
Especially, when considering some developments aren't completed or even started.
Interesting additions could be the futures of:
Legacy Park in Plano, Southside at Lamar just outside of downtown, Farmers Market area in downtown, RTKL's visions of the Irving DART line in Las Colinas' Urban Ctr., Old Downtown Plano off the DART line, and especially Sundance Square in FW.

Thanks for the poll!

[alaninhipark]

Mockingbird Station is pretty darn cool too. Cool poll though.

[Urbndwlr]

Since Sundance has the advantage of being in an existing city center, it already has that built-in urban feel. Also, it has all of the elements of the ideal new-urban community:

- dense, walkable mixed use neighborhood (res/office/retail all walking distance)
- arts (Top 10 Performing Arts Hall in the world, plus several theatres, galleries, artist studio space, etc)
- access to recreation (Trinity river trail walking distance)
- safety (place is spotless, and virtually crime-free)


In Dallas my vote is for the entire Uptown area. It's looking great. Columbus Realty Trust/ Post Properties has done a great job in setting the tone. They should come over and do some projects in Fort Worth.

[sweettalk2]

I'd include Southlake Town Square. They've got a great mix of shops in a great setting. I believe the plan is to add lofts, townhomes, and condos around it.

southlaketownsquare.com/newsouthlake/ (http://southlaketownsquare.com/newsouthlake/)

[CTroyMathis]

Yeah, Southlake is quite nice as well. Photo from that website:
<img src="http://southlaketownsquare.com/newsouthlake/images/pic3.jpg"/>

[crescentboi]

I'm voting for the West Village development. I live a few blocks away and the area looks much better than it did a few years ago. But I just wish that they could build the second Cityplace tower and incorporate that into the West Village development. I could only imagine what the skyline entering Dallas would look like if we could still get the two Cityplace towers to have the skybridge over Central. What a frame for the city!

[bloodandpopcorn]

Wow, no kidding. It might almost resemble the "gates" to the oficial chinatowns in the US... I think the plans for it are still on, maybe Troy or someone else that's more informed than I can fill us all in? But yes, I definitly agree it needs to be done. And I think those two mid-scale developments going up near the West Village are going to be awesome, too.

[psukhudallasmetropolis]

The twin Citiplace towers with a sky bridge would become an international icon for Dallas and maybe even Texas.

Is the driving range going to remain there?

[CTroyMathis]

This thread deserves to stay at the top of the list as well!

[DalLove444]

**SOBBING** - This thread suffered an untimely death. OMG. LOL - Lets revive it!!
Any new ideas on the best new urbanist projects in 2005??

[Columbus Civil]

I don't think any of those posters are around any more.

[psukhu]

Legacy Town Center in Plano is getting huge. It looks like it is about the size of State-Thomas, if not bigger.

Someone should make the road trip and get some pics.

[tamtagon]

It's kinda funny to see that Victory got almost 30% of the votes, almost four years before the first phase would have been opened.

[Tnekster]

Legacy Town Center in Plano is getting huge. It looks like it is about the size of State-Thomas, if not bigger.

Someone should make the road trip and get some pics.

I was up there recently but didn't think it was that big. It always seems like something is missing.

[EscapeToCity]

Solana

www.solana-texas.com (http://www.solana-texas.com/)

[rantanamo]

For just nice pure new urban, nothing is close to Cityplace West.

[rjlevins]

Solana

www.solana-texas.com (http://www.solana-texas.com/)

I have a hard time calling that new urbanism

[DalLove444]

I have a hard time calling that new urbanism
I saw that solana thingy too. Lets call it what it is, **NEW RURALISM**

[DalLove444]

New Urbanism is supposed to be in-town, not way,way,way outta town!!

[EscapeToCity]

Seaside & Celebration, both in Florida, are considered New Urbanist success stories. Neither one is inside a historic city center. Seaside is located in what could be called a semi-rural coastal zone while Celebration lies on part of the original Walt Disney World tract west of Kissimmee.

I don't think a 'New Urbanist' development has to be necessarily located right in the heart of a city. I believe the New Urbanist designation is more based on design criteria than on geographic orientation.

[CTroyMathis]

**SOBBING** - This thread suffered an untimely death. OMG. LOL - Lets revive it!!
Any new ideas on the best new urbanist projects in 2005??

This thread was abandoned after the move from ezboard 3 years ago. A newer version was created to replace this old thread that couldn't have a poll edited in.

[psukhu]

I was up there recently but didn't think it was that big. It always seems like something is missing.

To me, 150+ acres is pretty big for a single new urbanism development.


Phase I is about the size of Victory in land area. It is 75 acres with 1,600 luxury apartments/town homes, 385,000 square feet of retail space and 550,000 square feet of office space.

Phase II to the north is currently under construction is also about 75 acres.

A third section north of Headquarters Drive is about 18 acres. It just rezoned to match Phase I and Phase 2. I have no idea if the same people will develop that land.

Phase I is bound by Dallas Parkway - Legacy Drive - Parkwood Blvd - Tennyson Parkway.

Phase II is bound by Dallas Parkway - Legacy Drive - Parkwood Blvd - Headquarters Drive.

--------------------

I think what is missing is high rise residential. That's what seperates Victory and Cityplace from the new urbanism developments in the 'burbs. Plano is going for the village feel and the stuff around downtown is going for the big city feel.

[slfunk]

New Urbanism is supposed to be in-town, not way,way,way outta town!!

I agree with you here on this point. Unfortunently the "new urbanism" theory ,which a Jim Carey movie endorsed( Pleasantville?), does not necessarily keep to the city. Its this movement to develop something new that has reflections to something in the past like the 1950's, white picketed fences etc. etc. There are two developments up off of 380 that endorse this line of thinking. These developments are all about creating a sense of place, many of times in the middle of a corn field. The homes are built around a massive community building and mini water park. Another revelation in design that I think will continue to promote people becoming disconnected with society other then the people in there tini tiny world. They can't necessarily do this "in-town" with all the established businesses and land owners.

[rantanamo]

Something about Legacy just doesn't feel right compared to say Addison Circle. Can't put a finger on it.

[Tnekster]

Something about Legacy just doesn't feel right compared to say Addison Circle. Can't put a finger on it.

Is it....because the sidewalks roll up at 8 or because there are no people around? No mass of housing above the retail? I agree something is missing.

[rjlevins]

The location of the project is not what I have a problem with when calling it new urbanism. The problem I have is...try walking that! That is an office park not a mixed-use development. Yes, there may be some hotel and retail mixed in, but they include the single-family homes next to the development as the residential. All daily needs are not met within a quarter mile radius of the residential unit...HENCE, not new urbanism. There a many, many other reasons, but I won't get into technicalities.

Celebration, Florida is new urbanism...a little "Stepford"-like...but it certainly does display characteristics of a traditional village.

[psukhu]

Something about Legacy just doesn't feel right compared to say Addison Circle. Can't put a finger on it.

When was the last time you went up there?

A year ago I would have agreed with you. I was up there last week and they seem to have made a lot of progress in the past year. I was shocked that they were able to pull it off. I guess they have finally reached the critical mass needed to pull it off.

[rantanamo]

Was up there in early October. It still doesn't compare to Addison Circle and I simply can't figure out what it is. I'm not a fan of the original West Village, but it feels much more urban than Legacy. Walk around the main streets of Firewheel(especially at night) and it feels more urban than Legacy. Just can't put a finger on it. Perhaps its grid doesn't flow right, and the sidewalks just feel sterile. Or maybe its the fact that you can see "out" of it very easily no matter where you are. At Firewheel even, when you're in the main areas, you really feel like you are somewhere.

[sterling]

I think Legacy is more the "resort type" in it's presentation than "urban type". I think it's painted in much broader strokes than Addison Circle, which in it's "red brick" totality is human scaled and even unassuming. The gaps in it's development aren't obvious because everything is "already in line" and cohesive from the beginning. Legacy is looking for the next big corporate relocation to define it's "sense of place". Addison is all about the people who live in the neighborhood, and has been since the pencil hit the paper.

[psukhu]

I think Legacy is more the "resort type" in it's presentation than "urban type". I think it's painted in much broader strokes than Addison Circle, which in it's "red brick" totality is human scaled and even unassuming. The gaps in it's development aren't obvious because everything is "already in line" and cohesive from the beginning. Legacy is looking for the next big corporate relocation to define it's "sense of place". Addison is all about the people who live in the neighborhood, and has been since the pencil hit the paper.

I think you mixing up the Legacy Office Park and the Legacy Town Center development. The new urbanism development is a a subset of the office park.

The office park (2665 acres) : http://www.legacyinplano.com/

The new urbanism development (150 acres): http://www.shopsatlegacy.com/

Post Properties web page for Legacy: http://www.postproperties.com/Post+Living.nsf/Web/Property/916B16D9D7BF3D2B862568EF0060C660?OpenDocument

[rantanamo]

I think sterling's description was fine. I posted a picture thread a while ago, remember. It simply doesn't feel as urban as Addison Circle. I do think its the retail portion that ruins it.

[sterling]

I think you mixing up the Legacy Office Park and the Legacy Town Center development. The new urbanism development is a a subset of the office park.

The office park (2665 acres) : http://www.legacyinplano.com/

The new urbanism development (150 acres): http://www.shopsatlegacy.com/

Post Properties web page for Legacy: http://www.postproperties.com/Post+Living.nsf/Web/Property/916B16D9D7BF3D2B862568EF0060C660?OpenDocument

Thanks for trying to keep me on the straight and narrow. I perused the links (thanks for including them), but I think I still feel the same way. I think of Addison Circle as being recognizable by an immediately graspable "style" within it's classic "brick house" vocabulary. It doesn't pretend to be something it is not, and for Texas THAT is ground-breaking.

Legacy to me seems a pastiche of styles and eras layered over an "industrial" base and trimmed occasionally with limestone as a "natural Texas" touch. While I wouldn't call Legacy "faux", I don't think it "feels" as honest as Addison Circle as an urban "neighborhood" or "district". It seems more of a disguise for offices and shops. I think that "slight-of-hand" is the basis for my "resort" feelings about it. Actually, the "resort" feel is my favorite part about Legacy.

All that being said, I look forward to seeing how both places address the future. What they have done so far is very interesting. Would be interesting to know how people living in them would vote.

[rantanamo]

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=1920&highlight=Legacy

[sterling]

Thanks for that link rantanamo. Enjoyed these pictures.

[NThomas]

what about Frisco Square in...Frisco, and Southlake Town Square. Both are amazing development and the detail put into both centers in beyond anything i've ever seen

[vman]

Mockingbird Station has my vote, followed by Legacy. MS actually has some modernist architecture, unlike West Village, Southlake, and the countless other development using that tired nostalgic, walt disney, design. The designs used at Legacy are cool too.

[rantanamo]

I like Frisco Square. My only problem is that its so isolated like Legacy. I like that its legitimate in that it will be pure functional city and not an either or. If you could just get a library and post office branch and an elementary in Cityplace West, nothing, I mean nothing would touch it. It should be the model for neighborhood development in the metroplex. I don't just mean the high and mid-rises, but also the way the neighborhood seems to taper a little in density and height as one goes away from the main transit options. Very Toronto and feels more natural.