Yes, it's Greater DALLAS...

[HarryMoto]

Poor Ft. Worth.

I just moved out of Dallas to Southlake, which is in Tarrant County, has an 817 area code, and I suppose is "officially" a suburb of FW.

With my job I travel constantly. I first started telling people I moved outside of FW.
<insert blank stare>

I now tell people I live in a suburb outside of Dallas.
<insert approving look>

It's not that I have a feeling one way or the other, but the other Texas geography-challenged people make me do it.

Maybe Fort Worth needs to start a support group with Oakland, Long Beach, Newark, and Ft. Lauderdale.

. . .And Tacoma and St. Paul.

Those who don't reside in the US can be forgiven for not being aware of Fort Worth. Most of us probably aren't familiar with the 20th largest metropolis in China, Russia or India either. But there's no excuse for any American, if only because of the airport. It's hard to believe that Americans outside Texas can only offer a blank stare upon hearing the words "Fort Worth." But the geographical idiocy of our fellow citizenry never ceases to amaze.

[Tnekster]

. . .And Tacoma and St. Paul.

Those who don't reside in the US can be forgiven for not being aware of Fort Worth. Most of us probably aren't familiar with the 20th largest metropolis in China, Russia or India either. But there's no excuse for any American, if only because of the airport. It's hard to believe that Americans outside Texas can only offer a blank stare upon hearing the words "Fort Worth." But the geographical idiocy of our fellow citizenry never ceases to amaze.

True, but I find that people really don't care enough to figure it out. They know where they live and that is all that really matters.

[drumguy8800]

But the geographical idiocy of our fellow citizenry never ceases to amaze.In History earlier in the year (we're juniors) a girl asked if Texas was a continent.. and when asked what lake Chicago was on, she said 'The Pacific.'

[texman]

In History earlier in the year (we're juniors) a girl asked if Texas was a continent.. and when asked what lake Chicago was on, she said 'The Pacific.'
I thought people were dumb in my class. There was a girl named Krystal (big suprise) who asked what country we are at war with.

[warlock55]

I thought people were dumb in my class. There was a girl named Krystal (big suprise) who asked what country we are at war with.

Well, these days it can be hard to keep track. :rolleyes:

[trolleygirl]

I thought people were dumb in my class. There was a girl named Krystal (big suprise) who asked what country we are at war with.

Anyone in the UN...

[KBilly]

And I was out on the road, late at night,
Seen my pretty Alice, in every headlight... Alice.
Fort Worth Alice.


I doubt Little Feat would be Willin' to use those lyrics...

[Geaux Tigers]

Actually I've heard from a Texas Motor Speedway insider (he works there!) that the only part of the speedway inside the city limits of Ft. Worth are the ticket counters and speedway offices where the money is collected. Other than that, I guess the restof the speedway is in Justin. Sneaky, sneaky!!

[St-T]

^The people of Justin should be outraged about the t-shirts and should have them recalled.

[Geaux Tigers]

If the shirts really say the speedway is in Dallas, then I'm surprised your city council and Laura Miller haven't tried to figure out a way to annex Ft. Worth's part of the speedway into Dallas!

[Haretip]

Actually I've heard from a Texas Motor Speedway insider (he works there!) that the only part of the speedway inside the city limits of Ft. Worth are the ticket counters and speedway offices where the money is collected. Other than that, I guess the restof the speedway is in Justin. Sneaky, sneaky!!


You heard wrong.

City Limits Map (http://www.dfwmaps.com/index.asp?ExtentLeft=2329298&ExtentRight=2355392&ExtentTop=7074836.41502241&ExtentBottom=7048807.58497759&idCmd=&buffer=&x1=&x2=&y1=&y2=&tool=&click.x=&click.y=&Requests=on&selectpt.x=&selectpt.y=&selectpt.stat=&Address=&CityZip=&Label=&Cmd=ZoomIn&msize=large&mapTheme=dfwmaps&mapOption=Regional_Features&SHADECITY=on&clear_measurements.x=50&clear_measurements.y=6)


City of Fort Worth Zoning Map (http://maps.fortworthgov.org/Zoning/Zoning_Main.asp?Action=recenter&ZoomFactor_Value=1&image1.x=114&image1.y=75)

[Columbus Civil]

I wouldn't mind being in Justin.

[aceplace]

Maybe it's time for Fort Worth people to give it up... stop trying to resist being enveloped by the word "Dallas".

Plano, Frisco, Richardson, Irving... they don't have a problem with being a part of greater Dallas... if Fort Worth does have one, they will only be perpetuating their agony and sense of inferiority... the longer they keep it up, the sillier they look.

Brooklyn came to terms with being a part of New York... Nobody in Pacoima Hills tries to pretend they're not really in LA... and to the outside world, Fort Worth is one of the districts in which Dallas is divided... most people don't want to bother with humoring FW's wounded pride and self-absorption, any more than they want to know all about the separate boroughs of London.

[Haretip]

... if Fort Worth does have one, they will only be perpetuating their agony and sense of inferiority... the longer they keep it up, the sillier they look.

Sense of inferiority? I think it is anything but that, Ace.

I think agony is a bit of a stretch too. If we're being silly, I suppose we'll have to dress our panther in clown shows and a rubbber nose.

If you really think Fort Worth is one of the "districts" into which Dallas is divided, you are ignorant of geography and history, Ace.

I think civic pride, and not being part of Greater Dallas is half of what being from Fort Worth is all about.





I am a Fort Worthian, fighting the forces which offend my city and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

I will never surrender my city of my own free will. If in charge, I will never surrender the indentity of my city while we have the means to resist.

If I find myself in overwhelmed on a Dallas message board, I will continue to resist by all means available. If I find myself stuck in Dallas, I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither Wright Amendment Concessions nor special favors from the Dallasites.

When questioned, I am required to give name, council district, favorite entree at Pullido's, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to Fort Worth and its suburbs or harmful to their cause.

I will never forget that I am a Fort Worthian, fighting for freedom from Greater Dallas, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles instilled in us by Amon Carter.

Hu-ah!

[Bryant]

I wouldn't mind being in Justin.

Wow.

[CityLove]

I will never forget that I am a Fort Worthian, fighting for freedom from Greater Dallas, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles instilled in us by Amon Carter.

Hu-ah!

You go, boy!

My dirty little secret? Though I've moved around a lot, I once called Fort Worth home for a year. And if I have a hometown, it's Arlington. Shout out to the 817, yo, man. So though I'm a converted Dallasite learning to love my adopted city, I respect and admire Fort Worth. I see no reason why it should bow to Dallas. There are several things in FW I would go West to do that I find superior to the Big D....first thought being the Zoo (I won't go back to the Dallas Zoo since I went several years ago and spent all day looking for an animal). Second thought being Mexican Inn...though now there's one in Mansfield, close to my parents' house...but I digress. My point is, Fort Worth should be proud to be what it is, and I see no reason for its citizens not to have civic pride.

Go Fort Worth!

Go Dallas!

Or just go...

:D

TG2

[HarryMoto]

Maybe it's time for Fort Worth people to give it up... stop trying to resist being enveloped by the word "Dallas".

Plano, Frisco, Richardson, Irving... they don't have a problem with being a part of greater Dallas... if Fort Worth does have one, they will only be perpetuating their agony and sense of inferiority... the longer they keep it up, the sillier they look.

Brooklyn came to terms with being a part of New York... Nobody in Pacoima Hills tries to pretend they're not really in LA... and to the outside world, Fort Worth is one of the districts in which Dallas is divided... most people don't want to bother with humoring FW's wounded pride and self-absorption, any more than they want to know all about the separate boroughs of London.

Sorry, Ace, this comparison doesn't hold up. The big difference is that Brooklyn IS a part of the municipality of New York City, as one of the five boroughs. And Pacoima, like most of the San Fernando Valley, is part of the municipality of Los Angeles. Lots of people don't like it -- the San Fernando Valley tried to secede recently and failed -- but that's the way it is. So people saying Brooklyn is just New York or Pacoima is just LA are, technically, correct.

Fort Worth is not and has never been officially under Dallas' municipal umbrella. A more accurate comparison would be, say, Long Beach, Anaheim, Riverside or San Bernadino to LA -- populous areas that would be major regional players in their own right if they were where, say, Topeka is. Instead, they constantly live in the mighty shadow of Los Angeles but are not under its government.

[gc]

Food for thought....

who cares...?

[utgf]

You go, boy!

There are several things in FW I would go West to do that I find superior to the Big D....first thought being the Zoo (I won't go back to the Dallas Zoo since I went several years ago and spent all day looking for an animal).


Thats too bad. I was there this weekend with some friend from out of town and the place was packed. The Wilds of Africa on the monorail was one of the best features I have seen at any zoo. The last time I had been was 3 years ago and the place had improved quite a bit, including parts of the North Zoo. I was starting to think it was one of the best zoos I had been to until I came upon to the lions still in the cage. The place looks like it just needs a few million dollars and would really shine. Just update the lion exhibit and update the fencing and add some water features to the section of the North Zoo with camels and hippos, etc. My friends also throught the rest of the zoo was excellent.

[rantanamo]

Stop taking this so personally.

[aceplace]

Harry,

Yes, I realize that Pacoima is a part of municipal LA, just as San Telmo is a part of municipal Buenos Aires. But so is Van Nuys in muni LA. And Van Nuys is spoken of locally as a place in its own right, as in Van Nuys, California. Do you know that if you want to send a letter to someone in Van Nuys, you'd better not address it to LA, CA, but to Van Nuys, CA? Otherwise, it takes an extra day or two to be routed through the downtown LA post office.

This is the point... most people in the USA don't see LA as a municipality, but as a megacity, an urban area. They don't care if a place name is within or without muni LA, only that it is, essentially, part of the LA area. Does Van Nuys have its own muni government, or not? Nobody cares. People from the LA area, when in Chicago or New York, identify themselves as "from" LA, even if they live in a suburban municipality.

The same is true of other major urban agglomerations. People say they're from "London", even if they live in the legally independent boroughs (municipalities) of Westminster, Merton, Enfield, etc. People in Downers Grove or Des Plaines claim to be from "Chicago" when they're out of town. In the "out of town" context, the divisions of Greater Chicago are irrelevant.

And in the "out of town" context, the separate identity of Fort Worth is unknown and irrelevant... to the nation we are in, and the world we belong to. You say you're from "Fort Worth" and you get silence and blank stares, until somebody says... "Oh, that's in Dallas!".

Of course, people from Richardson or Garland (or Southlake or Grapevine) also abbreviate their city of origin as "Dallas" when in New York or Chicago or Europe. Nobody has the time, or the interest, to learn about the municipalities and communities that make up the greater Dallas area. Or other cities', for that matter.

Haretip, I got a chuckle out of your sense of humor. Fort Worth's antagonism is getting cuter.

[HarryMoto]

^Yes, and that's true for Watts, Hollywood, Venice, and East LA as well. Due to happenstance and history, each has its own identity and is well-known throughout the world even though all are either part of LA city or in unincorporated Los Angeles County.

But, having said that, I still find it strange that any city that's in the Top 20, or Top 30, in the U.S. in terms of population would elicit blank stares from fellow Americans. I grew up in California, went to school in California and knew the major cities in Texas long before I ever considered moving here. Just like I knew of, say, Tacoma, Duluth or Walla Walla. I didn't know much about those cities but if somebody said they were from there I wouldn't give them a blank stare. I just assumed these are things that everybody knew but you know what they say about assumptions.

Now if we don't stop this, Dad (gc) is going to turn this message board right around and go home! :)

[Haretip]

Haretip, I got a chuckle out of your sense of humor. Fort Worth's antagonism is getting cuter.

Try to minimize us if you'd like Ace, but you are wrong about Fort Worth being unknown outside of North Texas. Ask someone in Europe where the Van Cliburne's piano competition is held....

[Tnekster]

Try to minimize us if you'd like Ace, but you are wrong about Fort Worth being unknown outside of North Texas. Ask someone in Europe where the Van Cliburne's piano competition is held....

I bet most people in North Texas don't even know where Van Cliburne's piano cometition is held.

[CityLove]

I bet most people in North Texas don't even know where Van Cliburne's piano cometition is held.

A) He didn't say North Texas, he said Europe.

B) So are we supposed to congratulate North Texans on their ignorance of a world-class piano competition being held in their backyard? I wouldn't be bragging about that...

C) I've known about the Cliburn Comp. for years....I am not a pianist...but I am a musician. Don't know if that makes a difference.

TG2

[St-T]

Try to minimize us if you'd like Ace, but you are wrong about Fort Worth being unknown outside of North Texas. Ask someone in Europe where the Van Cliburne's piano competition is held....


I bet you would hear "a suburb of Dallas."

[Tnekster]

I know what he said. That was my point. Not everyone pays attention to piano competition, like it or not more people probably pay more attention to NASCAR events. I played for over 12 years and had never heard of the competition until I moved here.

[Tnekster]

Fort Worth can have NASCAR.

[rantanamo]

I was actually hoping for a world-class road course on the Dallas side of the metroplex. Preferably in the Cedar Hill/Duncanville/SW Dallas area with all the hills. They could bring in NASCAR, CCWS, IRL, F1, MotoGP, WSBK, AMA, ALMS, etc, etc. 100,000-200,000 people entering your city to spend money is never a bad thing.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Trolleygirl brings up something I meant to ask a while back. What happened to the Dallas Zoo? Has it declined over the years? If so, why? It almost seems as if it's been tucked away and forgoten, as if the city hasn't really gone out of its way to promote that it's indeed right there, near the city center.

What's the story?

[Tnekster]

Dallas Zoo is still hangin in there. I read something about it on the forum today but can't remember where it was. I used to know somebody that worked there and worked with the giants cats...like tigers.

I believe DART has been a good thing for the zoo and has helped increase their numbers. They have also dramatically improved the zoo in parts, some are still lacking but overall it is a much improved park since my first trip in 1990.

[rantanamo]

Hasn't it improved a lot and is going to expand? Its just the old school style of Zoo North that bothers me. What makes the FW Zoo better as a visiting zoo are the habitats, that are on average, better than Dallas Zoo exhibits. I still think the Wilds of Africa is the best animal exhibit in the metroplex though. I think the Dallas Zoo could be outstanding, if it did something about the cage exhibits. Its plenty big and is in a great hilly landscape.

[Tnekster]

Hasn't it improved a lot and is going to expand? Its just the old school style of Zoo North that bothers me. What makes the FW Zoo better as a visiting zoo are the habitats, that are on average, better than Dallas Zoo exhibits. I still think the Wilds of Africa is the best animal exhibit in the metroplex though. I think the Dallas Zoo could be outstanding, if it did something about the cage exhibits. Its plenty big and is in a great hilly landscape.

The landscape is cool, plus you can see downtown from several points in the park. I know they have some big plans and I thought at one time they were talking about expanding the taxing authority to include the entire county of Dallas. But I can't remember what happened to that.

[msutton]

it failed

[Tnekster]

too bad

[bigtex]

Try to minimize us if you'd like Ace, but you are wrong about Fort Worth being unknown outside of North Texas. Ask someone in Europe where the Van Cliburne's piano competition is held....

I'm not Ace, but I already said that FW is relatively unknown to the non-Texan / Southwest area crowd. Quite frankly, I think the only reason why Dallas has such a recognizable name is because of the 80's soap opera. When you think about it, what in either city would draw the attention of the world? Reunion Tower? Stockyards? NASCAR? Although I love the area, we don't really have something unique to offer besides the image of cowboys and oil wells, which you don't see too much around here. There are no natural wonders, landmark structures, or major historical events. Why Dallas? Because of a TV show.

And Van Cliburne is about as big of a household name in the world as Michael Schumacher is in the US.

[Lakewooder]

No major historical events? Uh...November 22, 1963.

[Tnekster]

No major historical events? Uh...November 22, 1963.

Yes I think that date put us on the map for good. If it would have taken place in FW it would have put FW on the map for good....or Tulsa or Houston or whatever. But it happened here and people still come from all over the see it.

[bigtex]

So there you have it. Dallas has a president shot in its city, Ft Worth takes a back seat on the world stage.

[trolleygirl]

I think I have to (grudgingly) agree with TG2......I wouldn't be braggin' about bein' an ignorant, backwoods hillbilly redneck...."huh? Van Who? That queer pee-ana player?? Isn't he some Liberace wannabe??" Yeah, let's put that image out there to the world!!

[HarryMoto]

I'm not Ace, but I already said that FW is relatively unknown to the non-Texan / Southwest area crowd. Quite frankly, I think the only reason why Dallas has such a recognizable name is because of the 80's soap opera. When you think about it, what in either city would draw the attention of the world? Reunion Tower? Stockyards? NASCAR? Although I love the area, we don't really have something unique to offer besides the image of cowboys and oil wells, which you don't see too much around here. There are no natural wonders, landmark structures, or major historical events. Why Dallas? Because of a TV show.

And Van Cliburne is about as big of a household name in the world as Michael Schumacher is in the US.

Yes, but why did the makers of the TV show choose Dallas in the first place? They could have just as easily set the same show in Houston or Tulsa. But they could play off Dallas' image of big hair and big oil that already was, rightly or wrongly, in the public mind.

[Lakewooder]

Who's the most famous Fort Worthian, Van Cliburn

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/VanCliburn1.jpg

or Priscilla Davis?

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/not_guilty/t_cullen_davis/PG12-Priscilla-Davis,-victi.jpg

[RobertB]

Who's the most famous Fort Worthian, Van Cliburn
or Priscilla Davis?
Is this a discussion board, or Separated At Birth? :)

[trolleygirl]

Well, Priscilla is pretty famous.....I have a friend who owns a '75 white on white on white convertable El Dorado.....he named her Priscilla. He didn't name her Van.

[Flaming Moderate]

This is why we're losing to Houston.

Dallas needs to realize FW has its charms.

FW needs to realize most of its charms exist only to spite Dallas.

So there. We can all agree Arlington really sucks.

[aceplace]

Yes, but why did the makers of the TV show choose Dallas in the first place? They could have just as easily set the same show in Houston or Tulsa. But they could play off Dallas' image of big hair and big oil that already was, rightly or wrongly, in the public mind.Harry, the story I heard was that Dallas was selected over Houston only because the Cowboys had just won the Super Bowl.

[2112]

Quick, somebody make an outrageous claim about Houston as a distraction!

Outrageous claim is forthcoming.

---please stand by...

:guns:

[2112]

Sense of inferiority? I think it is anything but that, Ace.

I think agony is a bit of a stretch too. If we're being silly, I suppose we'll have to dress our panther in clown shows and a rubbber nose.

If you really think Fort Worth is one of the "districts" into which Dallas is divided, you are ignorant of geography and history, Ace.

I think civic pride, and not being part of Greater Dallas is half of what being from Fort Worth is all about.





I am a Fort Worthian, fighting the forces which offend my city and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

I will never surrender my city of my own free will. If in charge, I will never surrender the indentity of my city while we have the means to resist.

If I find myself in overwhelmed on a Dallas message board, I will continue to resist by all means available. If I find myself stuck in Dallas, I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither Wright Amendment Concessions nor special favors from the Dallasites.

When questioned, I am required to give name, council district, favorite entree at Pullido's, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to Fort Worth and its suburbs or harmful to their cause.

I will never forget that I am a Fort Worthian, fighting for freedom from Greater Dallas, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles instilled in us by Amon Carter.

Hu-ah!

Suddenly, the silence of the daunted crowd is shattered by a single person, clapping, followed, by the steadily increasing roar of the applause.

[2112]

Outrageous claim still forthcoming....

...please stand by...

[2112]

Aceplace offered the following when he mentally annexed Fort Worth and made it part of Dallas:


Maybe it's time for Fort Worth people to give it up... stop trying to resist being enveloped by the word "Dallas".

Plano, Frisco, Richardson, Irving... they don't have a problem with being a part of greater Dallas... if Fort Worth does have one, they will only be perpetuating their agony and sense of inferiority... the longer they keep it up, the sillier they look.

Brooklyn came to terms with being a part of New York... Nobody in Pacoima Hills tries to pretend they're not really in LA... and to the outside world, Fort Worth is one of the districts in which Dallas is divided... most people don't want to bother with humoring FW's wounded pride and self-absorption, any more than they want to know all about the separate boroughs of London.


Dear Aceplace,

Thanks for asking. In general, people sometimes refer to the suburbs of large cities by the name of the core large city, but, it is in the context of wanting to verbally shorthand the conversation, so you don’t have to explain that “Frisco” is close to Dallas to others not from the area…you just say “Dallas”, instead. It’s a nice little verbal tool to imply some geography so that you don’t waste time in your main topic of conversation.

But that’s as far as the logic holds.

This doesn’t mean that “Frisco” is “Dallas”. It isn’t. The problem is that when you then start discussing the city of Dallas in context with other large cities and their metro areas, you then conveniently blur “the metro” with “the city”, and start confusing people with mixed up statistics, inconsistencies, and what-nots. When people want to talk of “a city”, that’s what they mean. When people want to talk of “the area” or “the metro”, then that is not a discussion about “the city” anymore. Yet, this blurring tactic is used quite a bit to inflate the true value of a discussion about a city, by adding attributes of the surrounding and independent cities, just to make themselves “feel” bigger and more superior. In contrast, sometimes, a suburb city is conveniently NOT included, if that city is deemed not worthy, or, it if its not classy enough. But of course, its population will nevertheless be secretly used to again prop up the big city, to make it seem even bigger. Some people go as far as proclaiming that Fort Worth is Dallas, which again, it’s not. Shoot, you might as well mentally annex Odessa while you’re at it. It’s really quite simple: Fort Worth is not Dallas. It never has been. And it never will.

Did that clarify things for you a little bit, Ace?

I hope it helped.
;)