DTD | West End: 1001 Ross

[mdunlap1]

More great news for the CBD. Hopefully these new residential projects can survive the slow economic times: <a href="http://www.dallasnews.com/business/stories/052002dnbuswestend.a9230.html":D allas Morning News Article</a>

:cool:

[GarrettCarey]

Beautiful. Brilliant.

[MustangMonkey]

This is great news. The only confusion I have is, why can places like Mockingbird Station, West Village, Southside on Lamar, and this new complex be built for free to the taxpayers (and imediatly start contributing to the tax base) yet Victory needs to be subsidized?

[KelleyUSA]

This is a nice surprise!!! I hope this sort of project can really be a catalyst for further development in the West End area. The article said the project will be similiar is size to that of the West Village- and even though it will have more apartment units than the WV- the retail does not seem as substantial. The West Village has approx. 125,000 sq. ft of retail space- and this project calls for only 30,000 sq. ft.. I'm curious as to what type of tenants they'll target. Well, I think this is fantastic and it'll sure be great to watch it go up!!

I wonder how this project will effect Victory and Main Street if any at all...

[GarrettCarey]

MustangMonkey...Victory will not cost the taxpayers anything....the money will come from revenue generated.

In terms of the Victory development being subsidized, I can only assume that they are requesting it because they are investing more in the infrastructure (i.e. parks, fountains, plazas, gardens, and substantial parking). Remember, the vision is to make the Victory District a big attraction....you know. None of the others have the same vision....that i am aware of.

[MustangMonkey]

Are you positive it won't cost anything? Check my latest post on the victory project in "MetropolisNow"

The article is by GlobeSt.com and is pretty unbiased, but shows some of my concerns.

[GarrettCarey]

If I understand the way a TIF works, it will not cost you or me anything. They are asking to be repaid the $43 million from the TIF. That means, as I understand it, that the tax dollars generated in that particular "TIF" will be used to repay Palladium over a period of time (20 years I think).

I mean if you go there and spend money at a shop, restaurant, or bar.....I guess you'd be paying for it....because you would be taxed. But it is not money that is coming directly out of the current city budget. Again, that is how I understand it. If I am wrong, someone please enlighten me.

[KelleyUSA]

Downtowner, you are exactly right! Only the tax dollars generated in that particular TIF will be used to repay Palladium. This will not cost the citizens a single penny! This is why Palladium has become so frustrated- they have had a difficult time of trying to explain this to the citizens and to councilmembers. Man- can't wait until the vote!!

[mdunlap1]

The bond package Palladium must put together for their investorys to finance the building of their project needs a guarantee of the $43 million up front. This is to complete their return forecasting models to reassure their investors. BUT, the money will be paid back to the city over time through taxes and revenues generated in the TIF, so in fact, the money IS money that will only be raised if the Palladium development happens. There is no real estate developer, apart from a few that have competing interests, that would not see this as a GREAT deal for our city and for Palladium. It is NOT a zero-sum gain. It is win-win.

But, Monkey, the reason Palladium needs the $43 million guarantee is because they are proposing to invest nearly 8-10 times the amount of money in this deal as the other developments you cite. Those are nice developments that have made a local stir, but this is one that would make a regional and national buzz. It would be huge. Palladium is a giant. Also, they are doing this in the middle of a horrendous economy where other real estate markets are stagnant at best.

:cool:

[GarrettCarey]

Thank you for the clarification KelleyUSA and mdunlap1.

Victory Rules!!

Woohooo!

[Axes]

Just as an addition. Look where Victory is and look at South Side, West Village, West End, etc. Victory is a polluted dump. The TIF money if for infrastructure - roads, parks, sewage, sidewalks, etc. Much of that stuff existing in some form at the other developments.

[bloodandpopcorn]

Any news on this? I know they have to wait for the United Way to move out next month, but I was hoping some more announcements or maybe a few more larger renderings might have been made available? This promises to be great.

[KelleyUSA]

Come on people- we finally got rid of the annoying ads, now let's get some talk going!!! As for the West End project- have we heard any new news on this. I am searched all over or some information- but can't seem to find a single thing. I have a feeling this may be one of those developments that never happens!

[GarrettCarey]

I too have looked and found nothing.

[MustangMonkey]

I'm not sure which news you are looking for, but a couple weeks ago I remember hearing some info on a hotel in the West end -Double tree- I belive. And of course additions are being made to the Dallas World Aquarium.

[KelleyUSA]

Yes- Double Tree is in the process of renovating the current Hampton Inn. I was speaking about the announcement by Framm Corp. about developing a "West Village" type complex on 2 city blocks in the West End. It's supposed to be on the site of the old United Way building. The site was originally designated for high rise condos- but they backed out of that plan and decided to take the mixed use route.

[bloodandpopcorn]

How significant are the additions to the Dallas World Aquarium? I realy like it, and I think that, if handled right, it can grow in a direction to make it one of the most interesting in this area of America.

[GarrettCarey]

Good question. I emailed the DWO today asking that same question. When i get a response..i'll post it.

[bloodandpopcorn]

thanks!

[KelleyUSA]

Man- I love the Dallas World Aquarium!!! I wish it was a little bit closer to the Arts District though- but it's already a fantastic place for DT. With regards to the West End retail complex- here's an article I found:

New West End shops and apartments
Fram Building Group of Toronto, builders of the 23-story Mayfair Condominiums overlooking Lee Park announced a new retail/residential project Downtown.

On the corner of Ross Avenue and Lamar, the 1001 Ross Building will have nearly 30,000 square feet of retail space and over 200 apartments. "Our rents will range from $1,000 to slightly more than $2,000 a month," said Fram vice-president Grant Lorimer. "We are trying to appeal to the people working Downtown, and there are more than 50,000 people living within walking distance....," Lorimer added.

The building design will be similar to the successful West Village on McKinney Avenue Uptown with shops at ground level and several levels of apartments above.

"We decided to build this style project not only because of market research, but also because it's next to the West End," said Fram Building Group president Frank Giannone. People want a pedestrian life, and this brings them closer to that in Downtown."

Construction is scheduled to begin before the end of the year, allowing the United Way to continue in their current location until their new building is completed.

Unlike other Downtown projects, Fram is not seeking tax incentive money for its retailers from the city at this time.

[longhornfan]

Any news on a groundbreaking?

[gc]

Guess what I saw today? Okay, I'll tell you...calm down.

There is a sign fronting the Griffin/Ross intersection that touts, "1001 Ross - 30,000 sq. ft. retail and over 200 apartments". I also noticed a tractor of some sort and the parcel of land is fenced off....as if some ground breaking may occur soon!!

This is great to see!

[rantanamo]

I noticed the same thing today and was looking for someone to ask about it. I also notice an already cleared lot just south of Pacific on the the Deep Ellum side of I-45/US 75. Any clues about either?

[freewaytincan]

Very good, very good. Of course, it will continue to be a tourist destination, which isn't a bad thing. Anything that pulls business away from Six Flags!

[gc]

rantanamo, I think that the cleared lot by Deep Ellum is for the planned dog park (aka Central Bark Park). I cannot confirm that though.

Urban.....Six Flags is a great place! Why would you want to take away tourist from there? I don't understand.

[Kelley USA]

I saw the sign several weeks ago- but at that point the area had not been fenced off. So- it looks like progress is fast approaching for this. I think that is excellent news considering the number of times we here a project mentioned or see a sign for a future development only to see it never take shape!

[downtownbum]

i ride my bike past there every day, they were knocking down a building yesterday (what was a small loft building with about 10 units) also nearby what i think is an expansion of the aquarium

[Kelley USA]

With the exception of the rendering that's at the location- has anyone been able to find one on the internet? I would love to see what this is going to look like. Perhaps one of you downtown dwellers can take a photograph of the rendering at the site and post it here...

[freewaytincan]

Yes, the aquarium is indeed exapanding, into a building across a small connector street. They will also fill out the area that is undeveloped in the northwest corner of their current site, and will be taking in the entire building mentioned above via airbridge. I saw all this back in November, when I went, but I can't find anything online...

[crescentboi]

That's wonderfull that the Aquarium is expanding so much. I think that is one attraction that Dallas can grow on and make a "goal destination" for downtown. When I first went to the aquarium I was not impressed at all, especially when comparing it to some in larger cities, especially the Shedd (spelling?) in Chicago and the aquarium (don't know the name) in New Orleans which are both wonderfull in their own way. It would be great if they were able to build an area to house dolphins to do daily shows, I think that would bring a lot of people into the area of the Westend and downtown in general.

[tamtagon]

Isnt' the Dallas World Aquarium a privately owned operation with no connection to the city or county, other than the name?

[downtownbum]

thats right the aquarium is not owned by the city

[gc]

West End developers push ahead despite slump
02/28/2003 - By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

Developers call it a winning combination: a complex of shops and apartments within walking distance of the new sports arena and close to downtown employment centers. Canadian developer Fram Building Group has already broken ground on its West End mixed-use development, even though it was turned down for public-sector tax abatements and the economy has soured. "We are starting full steam ahead, and we already have a lot of interest from retailers," said Elio Ciccotelli, Fram's director of planning and development. "We are taking a risk, but we are going ahead – we feel that strongly about this project." Dallas' West End district has been a mainstay of the central business district since the early 1980s. And while the nearby Victory project near American Airlines Center has suffered delays, West End developers are pushing ahead with new projects and renovating old buildings.

"Out of all the areas of downtown, the West End has struggled through the good times and the bad, and we always survive," said Greg Schooley, executive director of the West End Association. "We feel we make a big contribution to downtown." The most visible project these days is Fram's four-story building under construction at Ross and Lamar. During the last few weeks, demolition has been completed on two smaller buildings between Lamar and Griffin Street. Now Fram is about to begin excavation for the underground parking garage. "We will have 204 apartments and 30,000 square feet of retail," Mr. Ciccotelli said. "We got our building permit last week. "Everything that gets announced is postponed, but this one is going to happen," he said. "We are doing it even though we didn't get any tax abatements from the city, which was very frustrating." Construction on Fram's 1001 Ross complex should take about 20 months. The same developer built the 23-story Mayfair condominium tower on Turtle Creek.

Homes at last

The West End has so far been shy on living space – it's mostly home to restaurants and loft-style offices.
But at least one other building owner is looking to build residential. Dallas businessman Otto Wetzel is considering a residential redo for his Landmark Center building on Lamar between Ross and Corbin. A large chunk of the office building is now empty. "We are exploring different options, including residential," Mr. Wetzel said. "We have one of the largest buildings in the West End, and it lends itself to nice apartments or condos. "It would have wonderful views of downtown," he said. A partnership headed by Dallas investor and developer Andy Kasnetz is restoring two of the former Awalt furniture buildings on Austin Street that overlook the DART light-rail station. The early 20th century warehouses were two of the last undeveloped buildings in the West End. Owners of the West End Marketplace building at Market Street and Munger Avenue are also working to round up new retailers after losing three major tenants. "We lost all three anchors in that building – Planet Hollywood, Dallas Alley and the movie theater," said Bill Nabors, president of Ecom Real Estate. "We are in the process of retenanting the building and see some good activity on the retail side."

Park planned

Mr. Nabors said his company's office space in the nearby Market Ross Place building has remained well-leased, even though many dot-com and creative companies housed in the West End have cut back.
"But our product is so unique, we have stayed in the high 80 percentages with occupancy," he said. "We don't really compete with the other downtown buildings." The West End Association hopes to add to the district's appeal by building a $4 million park on the empty half-block at Market and Corbin. The public space will have a grass lawn, fountain, trellises and a raised area that can be used as a stage. "The top item on our wish list has been the park," Mr. Schooley said. "The West End lacks a gathering place. "We feel we offer a good face for downtown Dallas, whether you are a visitor or someone local," he said.

[tamtagon]

I do not know any of the requirements for receiving tax abaitments. Gilley's got one, but this development did not and I'm interested in the reasons. Does the city council have a website location with this kind of information?

If the Mayfair is any indication of the aesthetics to expect for the West End development, times are good.

[bloodandpopcorn]

I think the fact that they are going ahead even without tax help is great. It shows that some developers might be developing some genuine love and respect for the core of the city, and that there is some real gold to be tapped into here that may be much more abundent than it even seems now.

[rantanamo]

finally found their website. Didn't realize they did the Wyndemere too.

http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/6011/874picture073.jpg
http://www.carolynshamis.com/list_images/high-sale/3510/penthouse-E/view-balcony.jpg

nice piece of real estate they have in Turtle Creek.

[crescentboi]

Has anyone heard about what exactly is going to be in here? What tenants? I think it would be great to see some mall-like stores go in there, just to bring more people down there. Do you know what I mean? Almost like the WV, I'm just hoping that they aren't going to try to pull tenants in like at the West End Marketplace where they were really touristy shops. No locals would go there.

[downtownbum]

i think the best thing that could happen for the future of the WE marketplace and kennedy tourist traps would be for the west end to become a neighborhood. i live downtown, and this is almost the forgotten corner of downtown, frequented only by out of towners and suburbanites who couldnt find uptown if their lives depended on it. i hope the ross ave apartments are the beginning of west end infill projects that fit the scale and architecture of the district while increasing the vitality of it. architecturally the WE is incredible, but i never have any reason to go there, and think the majority of citizens are the same way. that needs to change.

[downtownbum]

a thought: WE could be a great place for a movie theater. the one that was there was small and outdated for years before its closing. if this district moves forward into the 21st century it could become a great place for downtown residents AND suburbanites to spend their entertainment dollars.
btw i have worked at the mayfair a few times and i think it is the best of the new condo towers in turtle creek by far. agree that it bodes well for the ross ave apartments.

[bloodandpopcorn]

When I go to the West End, it's for one reason only: "Tilt". One of the best game centers, just because of the areas around it and its wonderful urban setting and 'depressed' location in the marketplace, is also not that expensive. And god is it ever fun. What really amuses me is that ther are only others like me, late 20s, early 30s, rarely any high schoolers or younger in there. I really wish that they could expand the marketplace as a resident-entertainment oriened place. Doing that would make it even MORE tourists to the area, because it would be highly populated by locals and give them at least a day or two's worth of activity. I think the movie theater up top could be resurrected & expanded vertically to allow for stadium seating, etc. What I think would be cool would be to kind of mix another plan i heard on the board for turning it into performance areas with renovating it as a movie house -- do both! Make 1 or 2 performing venues, each taking up 2-3 old screens for stage, backstage, dressing, etc., and then use hte remaing theaters (5-8, depending on the theaters that are built) as a place to show films. While I don't think Dallas needs another arthouse just yet, one screen could be dedicated to independent films from Dallas (or even Texas), or it could be dedicated to foreign films, classic films, or to allow independent films to continue their run after the Magnolia or Angelika have to force them out for new ones.

There's alot of potential there. I hope it gets realized.

[psukhu]

a thought: WE could be a great place for a movie theater.

Something with stadium seating. I hate having to drive north see see a non-art house movie at a nice modern cinema.


I also like Tilt. But it would be nice if the WE had a Dave & Busters or something like Carson's Palace.

[Kelley USA]

As a resident born and raised in Dallas- I have been lucky enough to see many changes take place around here. As a youngster- it was unheard of to go DT. The only place that existed DT was Spaghetti Warehouse- and even then you went early becasue you sure didn't want to be out when the sun went down. When the WestEnd came to be (I was in junior high)- it was a great place to eat and hang out on the weekends and even catch a movie. People finally started to make the trek- and the majority of them weren't visitors- they were actual residents from the DFW area. It was a great place to go when I was in high school (a good date place if you can beleive that)- but I'll make the argument that WestEnd is much more worse off today than it was 10-12 years ago. It has seen a significant decline- lost much of its luster- and the overall appearance has not been kept up. A new streetscape is long overdue!! I'm sure that many other residents of Dallas feel the way I do- I will rarely visit WestEnd because in my opinion it is no longer the place it once was and the City of Dallas has done very little to restore it to how it once was. It's become nothing more but a complete embarresment to me- and I refuse to take any visitors to see it!!

As for movie theatres- I think the West Village area would be greatly served if someone built a 5 or 6 screen theatre just like the Magnolia. They would be in the same area but they do serve 2 completely different markets. The area needs a theatre that shows main stream movies- and don't give me this Loews Cityplace BS- that place makes bank because it has no competition. A nice theatre with stadium seating and updated amenities would put a serious hurt on Loews... I would love to see a main stream theatre like AMC or Cinemark build in the area with an urban feel that would have a grand marquis along McKinney or Lemon etc...

[gc]

A small rendering of the future site.

[CTroyMathis]

The aquarium and skybridge UL was referring to:

http://skylinegruve2002.dallasmetropolis.com/P1010141-dalaquariumexpansion.jpg

http://skylinegruve2002.dallasmetropolis.com/P1010138-dalaquarium.jpg

I took the photos back in October. The rendering is posted inside the building on a wall somewhere, but, don't remember where exactly.

[bloodandpopcorn]

When wil it be done? or begin, for that matter, if it hasn't already? I love the Dallas World Aquarium, and I hope that it can continue to expand and become a really great landmark for the city. It could help to revitalize that parking lot desert surrounding it, perhaps.

[gc]

They are really making progress with these apartments. In fact, there are two cranes at the site now.

The Aquarium is making good progress too!

Lots of good stuff going in the West End!

[chiboi]

does anyone know if they have pre-leased any of the retail that will be on the ground level of 1001 Ross, and if so what it will be? I have looked for a web-site for FRAM, the developer, and all I can find is a VERY primitive site with no info.

[leogrrl]

I think losing Planet Hollywood was bad for WE. I remember within the first year we were down here, West End was always full - it was hard to find a place to park <even in the nasty pay $5 to park somewhere that you worry about your cars safety type places>, Planet Hollywood's waiting line was way out the door, there was live music outside of PH on the weekends, etc.. We went this weekend and there was a festival, but still, it lacks what it used to have. I think some landscaping, possibly repaving some of the parking lots and a movie theatre would be a great addition to this part of town - it is certainly one of my favorites.

[tamtagon]

Planet Hollywood, I was glad to see that place leave the westend, and I'm glad The Hard Rock is somewhat off the touristy beaten path. West End development should focus on serving the locals and providing more living opportunities. It's all good to have a designated spot downtown for tourists, but the west end will be much more memorable if it is also a 'marketplace' for the citizens of downtown and uptown. The west end need a character other than that of tourist trap.

[CARTMAN]

I just wanted to let everyone know that the framing has already begun to go up on this project. Now, its just a matter of a couple of months before its finished.