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Haretip
09 March 2005, 08:05 PM
Senate votes to sue Texas over acreage
By Walter Rubel/Current-Argus Santa Fe Bureau
Mar 9, 2005, 04:14 am



SANTA FE — The Senate voted Tuesday to sue Texas for the return of land in a move that the bill’s sponsor, Sen. Shannon Robinson, D-Albuquerque, likened to a “slap fight” between neighbors.

Robinson said there are 603,485 acres of land along the north-south boundary with Texas that was erroneously appropriated to Texas due to a surveyor’s error. The bill directs the attorney general to sue for the return of land, as well as compensation for mineral rights, oil and gas royalties, property taxes and grazing privileges that have been lost due to the mistake.

“The purpose of suing Texas, it’s like a slap fight with your neighbor — you don’t want to do a heck of a lot of damage, but we do want to wake them up to the fact that Texas has not always treated New Mexico well,” Robinson said. “We’ve kind of been treated like a stepchild.

“When we were trying to get into the union, they always demanded that we forsake this strip of land, and it ends up with Texas having this windfall. It’s all prime Permian Basin land.”

Sen. Carroll Leavell, R-Jal, said the land in question is well worth fighting over.

“My home is less than eight miles from this line, and I can tell you that is some of the richest oil and gas country in Texas,” Leavell said. “If it wasn’t for that, the University if Texas would probably be a junior college.”

Leavell said the state shouldn’t stop with just the disputed land.

“While we’re after this, we ought to go after them for the water in the Ogallala (aquifer),” Leavell said.

“You look at the east side of New Mexico and you just go right along the line to the west side of Texas, and they have pipelines bigger than Volkswagons that pump water out and literally drain New Mexico. And they have no consideration of what it is doing to us,” Sen. Tim Jennings, D-Roswell said. “If we just move that line over, then we can sell them the water.”

Robinson said the ongoing water dispute with Texas is part of the reason why New Mexico should go to court to seek return of the land.

“Very often, what you accomplish by filing a lawsuit — it’s just like a manager in baseball coming out and reading the riot act to the umpire. You might not get that particular call changed, but it’s the next one you want,” Robinson said. “And the next one we’re going to fight with Texas is over water.”

Robinson said Texas has set aside about $19 million to sue New Mexico over water rights.

Sen. Gerald Ortiz y Pino, D-Albuquerque, said the state shouldn’t stop with the 603,000 acres in the northern part of the state.

“I think we should broaden our effort to reacquire El Paso, which was equally maliciously taken from us,” Ortiz y Pino said.

Robinson said El Paso the southern border between the states is based on where the Rio Grande was in 1850. He said when it was time for a water master to determine that boundary, Texas brought in several engineers, while New Mexico relied on the memories of sheep herders.

“The water master relied only on the data of the Texas engineers, and his statement in the report to the U.S. Supreme Court said, ‘the only evidence supplied by New Mexico was from some illiterate Mexicans who testified as to what they remember when they were 11 years old.’”

The bill passed on a 33-0 vote and now moves to the House for consideration.


The bill is SB555, and can be found on the Internet at legis.state.nm.us.

drumguy8800
09 March 2005, 09:46 PM
I think Texas should sue New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming and we can get all our freaking land back.

drumguy8800
09 March 2005, 10:06 PM
603,485 / 640 (number of acres per mi²) = 942.9 square miles.

261,797.12 (mi² in texas) / 942.9 = 0.0036 * 100 = .36% of the state of texas.

drycreek
10 March 2005, 02:24 AM
Uh, this is truely laughable. Dios mios man. They don't have a very good chance of getting there way. First of all Texas has too much money and will win this fight. Second, they are trying to bring up stuff that over a hundred years ago and difficult to prove to say the least. While their claims to the NS boundry might have some legitimacy, their claims about losing El Pase are based on their own incompetence? Are they serious? "Your Honor we were too stupid to provide adequate professionals to investigate the matter so now a hundred some odd years later we'd like our land back because we were morons back in the day" HA. Yeah, okay. Hell, if you want to go there, I think the Comanches might beg to differ with both the State of Texas and New Mexico about whose land it really is. Heck it's not even the Comanches' they stole it from the Apaches. Bottom line, they case is a joke and they'll lose a lot of money fighting it only to come up empty handed.

tamtagon
10 March 2005, 09:59 AM
At some point, those Texans living within the disputed area will be given a chance to voice an opinion about this, and what Texan in his or her right mind would willingly want to replace Texas with New Mexico?

Haretip
10 March 2005, 10:43 AM
From the Handbook of Texas online, here is the lawsuit over land near El Paso. This is not the land that New Mexico is planning to sue over, but is mentioned in the article as the property that was lost due to the poor memory of shephards.

NEW MEXICO V. TEXAS. New Mexico v. Texas was argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1927 and 1928 to determine the boundary line between the two states in far West Texas. New Mexico claimed that Monument No. 1 of the Clark Survey of 1859, which had long since disappeared, had been improperly relocated by the Scott-Cockrell Commission (1911) 2,783 feet west of the original position. New Mexico's contention was that the Rio Grande had actually flowed against the east ridge of the valley in 1850, when the Compromise of 1850qv established the boundary between Texas and New Mexico. Texas claimed the river was on the western side. The disputed distance amounted to about four miles.

The court accepted certain surveys, maps, and patents submitted by Texas counsel: the Salazar-Díaz Survey map of 1852, the Texas surveys of 1849 and 1860, Joint Boundary Commission maps of 1852 and 1855, and the Clark Survey map of 1859. The court also noted acquiescence of the United States, when New Mexico was a territory, in the claims of those holding lands under Texas surveys and the undisturbed possession of the Texas claimants. Justice Edward T. Sanford, in handing down the decision, ordered the north point on the thirty-second parallel to be placed 600 feet west of the Clark Monument No. 1 as it had been relocated by the Scott-Cockrell Commission. Samuel S. Gannett was named surveyor to locate the new boundary, costs to be borne by the two states equally. The boundary was then completely remarked south to 31 degrees 47 minutes north latitude, commonly considered equidistant from the east and west banks of the Rio Grande.

Haretip
10 March 2005, 02:33 PM
IN my opinion, this issue was settled when the State of New Mexico was admitted to the Union. The boundary was set in the Compromise of 1859 at the 103° longitude. Yes, the line was marked about three miles west of where it should have been. New Mexico wanted to be annexed in 1912 with the line held at 103°, but Texas threw its political clout around in Washington DC around and said if you want to be a state, forget about the extra real estate.

If they wish to renege on the arrangement for their admission to the United States, so be it. Let's just cancel their statehood and Texas should then reassert their claim to lands east of the Rio Grand by right of conquest from the War of Texas Independence 1836.

texman
10 March 2005, 04:14 PM
At some point, those Texans living within the disputed area will be given a chance to voice an opinion about this, and what Texan in his or her right mind would willingly want to replace Texas with New Mexico?

God, really, NM always comes 49th and 50th on education and census lists.

drumguy8800
10 March 2005, 04:35 PM
Do any other states act like this towards each other?

It's funny to watch our nation crumble from the inside out :p... Natural cycle of country/empire expansion, prosperity, then destruction.

Who's that dead guy that said a nation that stops tring to expand becomes weaker and weaker? He wrote a book on it.

Mballar
10 March 2005, 05:06 PM
^Not only do states act like this, but so do Texas Counties. I think Denton County and Tarrant County are still in a fight over who owns certain parcels of land between the two.

texman
10 March 2005, 05:22 PM
Do any other states act like this towards each other?

It's funny to watch our nation crumble from the inside out :p... Natural cycle of country/empire expansion, prosperity, then destruction.

Who's that dead guy that said a nation that stops tring to expand becomes weaker and weaker? He wrote a book on it.

If our nation is crumbling, it'll be the shortest empire known to Earth. The Romans lasted what 1,000 years? Didnt me and you talk about this awhile back?

drumguy8800
10 March 2005, 05:53 PM
Yeah, and there was a hijacked thread discussing it.

Haretip
10 March 2005, 06:00 PM
^Not only do states act like this, but so do Texas Counties. I think Denton County and Tarrant County are still in a fight over who owns certain parcels of land between the two.


Nope, that's over (apparently). Denton lost on appeal. The description of Tarrant County is tied to the northwest corner of Dallas County. When the northwest corner of Dallas was adjusted, it was only proper to correctly establish the northeast corner of Tarrant as being coincident.

2112
14 March 2005, 03:50 PM
Wow. Truly, WOW.