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Click_Raider
07 March 2005, 06:24 AM
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Caveat Emptor



DENIAL OF CORPORATE EXISTENCE

STATUTORY RECOGNITION OF THE RIGHT OF
A MAN TO DENY CORPORATE EXISTENCE

Piercing the Corporate Veil
[A paper from a law researcher in Louisiana]

The term "Piercing the Corporate Veil" is a legal one which identifies the process where a court removes the protection provided individual members of a corporation for criminal activity, and makes these members responsible for their own actions. In reality, according to the original meaning of corporations, is that these corporate groups were established exactly for that reason; for unlawful purposes, primarily to escape punishment for their crimes by placing the blame on a fictional organization responsible to no one.
The "United States" government jumped on the corporate bandwagon the first part of the 1870's by declaring themselves a separate entity from Constitutional government (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?p=97109#post97109). This, of course, followed the war between the states and the supposed Fourteenth Amendment (http://www.theawaregroup.com/nonratified14th.htm), which lawfully never was (http://www.theawaregroup.com/nonexistent14th.htm), but was accepted by the newly formed corporation (http://www.theawaregroup.com/laworcontract.htm) called the "United States (http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00003002----000-.html)." (USC TITLE 28 > PART VI > CHAPTER 176 > SUBCHAPTER A > § 3002 (15) (A) (http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00003002----000-.html))

The fact that the Constitution had already established a United States was inconsequential to those traitors in Congress, because it was the Constitution itself they wanted destroyed, and the war, instigated by the Jewish factions of Europe, was fought for this purpose, and all the flowery fictions blamed for the war is pure fantasy.

Corporations themselves are natural processes of society, that is, when a group of people gather for a particular purpose, such as for forming a community they are a corporation, and there can be no criminal intent attached thereto, but it is when corporations are established with the power to declare themselves bankrupt that makes them criminal. This is the situation of our "government" today; the richest, most powerful nation on earth "bankrupt (http://judiciary.house.gov/legacy/smetters030603.htm)." Just the thought is ridiculous.

Corporations are legal fictions; that is, they do not exist except in the minds of men. Anyone can create a fantasy in their own mind and make it do for them what they please, but these fantasies cannot, nor do not extend to areas outside the realm of personal capacity. Corporations are made of living, breathing men, all with the same ideas and purposes, so we can look upon them with the same limitations as the individual, and that is their jurisdiction is confined to the lawful area of their creation.

A corporation, being a legal fiction, cannot think, it cannot act in any manner, even to communication with natural man, and for this reason it must have somebody, or bodies to speak and act for it, and the lawyers have set themselves up for this task.

The enormity of corporate enterprises is limited only by imagination, and they are gold mines for the bar associations, which are corporations themselves. Even thieves must leave an out for themselves, as they never know when the worm will turn, and "dumb" burrowing rodents will have at least two exits from their dens. After years of research, a few people locally have found, what we believe to be that "out" from corporate jurisdiction which has been milking the citizens of this nation for well over a century.

We have had great success with this "out," and the shocked looks and frenzies of judges presented with this procedure show us that we are on the right track. As all other "sure" things, however, we can't rest on our laurels and be smug with our assumptions that it is fool proof.

We have to remember that it took the lawyer profession many years to come up with their gimmicks, and they aren't going to fall over and play dead as we proceed to break up their playhouses, and we know from experience that they know how to play rough. The idea is to hit hard, fast, and as widespread as possible before they can see what is happening, and that is why we need as much diversity and geographical application as we can muster.

There is nothing complicated about the procedure of disclaiming corporation existence, which is what all this is about; the difficulty lies overcoming a lifetime of corporate propaganda, and we have had great difficulty in this area. We who work with this procedure went through the same agonizing process before we realized that it really works. We were looking for the complicated when the answer to our problems was right under our noses all of the time.

I don't mean to write a book and omit the meat of my subject, but you will find that some prosecutors and judges just haven't got the picture yet, and will ask your source of information when you go before them, and you need a little background to keep from being embarrassed. Again, try not to read difficulty into a perfectly simple procedure, which is outlined below. Not having access to laws of other states I can only quote from those to which I have access, and those are of Louisiana.

We have tried this system in Alabama and Florida, and know it works there (we didn't even research the law books in those states before acting) and we have to assume it will work nationally, as the corporation veil encompasses every nook and cranny of the nation, and for this very reason we at present can't see where a general withdrawal from their jurisdiction is possible. Every case must be decided on its own until there are enough of us, and locations, to make the corporate masters accept the fact that they can't fight it. Please read the two sections from the Louisiana Civil Codes, and the Louisiana Revised Statutes, below carefully; disect them word by word and the message will come out loud and clear.

(Eldon’s note: Statute 445 was repealed around 1988; however, 429 is still around as Revised Statute 15:429, and is posted on the internet by the Louisiana State Government website: Revised Statute 15:429 )

Civil Codes of Louisiana Art. 445.


"The statutes and regulations which corporations enact for their police and discipline, are obligatory upon all their respective members who are bound to obey them, provided such statutes contain nothing contrary to the laws, to public liberty, or to the interest of others.
Louisiana Revised Statutes Art. 429.

Corporate existence presumed unless affidavit of denial filed before trial. On trial of any criminal case it shall not be necessary to prove the incorporation of any corporation mentioned in the indictment, unless the defendant, before entering upon such trial, shall have filed his affidavit specifically denying the existence of such corporation."


These two simple paragraphs say it all. If one is a member of a corporation he is bound by corporate rules and regulations, and those outside those corporations are not subject to their jurisdiction. The corporate status of an individual entering the court is automatically assumed by the court unless they have notice to counter such assumptions, and this is the purpose of the affidavit, an example of which I will provide below.

All of the socialist programs, integration of the races, the grab of power at all echelons of government, and all the other ills of this nation are corporate "enterprises." One cannot escape the thumb of corporate authority until such time as he has removed himself from the jurisdiction.

We can view government today as a corporate reality, where the Constitution is merely a by word, or ruse of fiction, where the Congress is the board of governors, the president is the corporate CEO, and the "courts" are mere corporate arbitration boards, including the U.S. Supreme Court. When we pierce the corporate veil and remove ourselves from that corrupt venture we become men again and carry with us our natural laws and sovereignty, from whence the corporations received their powers originally.

The corporations of which we are primarily concerned are these:


UNITED STATES (CANADA , THE CROWN, THE QUEEN)
ALL BAR ASSOCIATIONS
EVERY STATE OF THE UNION (ANY PROVINCE)
EVERY COUNTY, PARISH OF Every State Of The Union (Or Province)
EVERY CITY, TOWN, BURG, OR OTHER CORPORATE SUBDIVISION
EVERY MEMBER OF CORPORATIONS, INCLUDING YOURSELF UNTIL DENIAL OF THOSE CORPORATIONS ARE COMPLETE BY AFFIDAVIT
EVERY DEPARTMENT OF FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY, CITY, ETC., INCLUDING SHERIFF DEPARTMENTS, CITY - TOWN POLICE DEPARTMENTS, JUDGES, PROSECUTORS, AND ALL OTHER MUNICIPAL OFFICERS AND PERSONS
THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE, INCLUDING STATE TAX DIVISIONS, AND CITY INCOME TAX DEPARTMENTS WHERE THEY EXIST (And, CCRA)


I will provide here a scenario (fictitious name and place) and a sample of affidavit to overcome the final disposition of the case involved: John Preston Hickman has just been stopped by a Tarrant City, Alabama cop by the name of William C. Henly, for doing 45 in a 35 MPH zone. After the normal procedures of checking drivers license, insurance, etc., Henly gives Hickman a ticket, with an appearance date of June 15, 2000 in city court. John does it right by not arguing with the cop, and doing as he has been told by the officer, and accepting the ticket and even signing it as ordered by the cop. Then John goes home and prepares himself an affidavit, which reads something like this:

Eldon's Note: I have a sample Canadian affidavit of denial available on my FTP download site. Find it as: genaffidavit.rtf

Affidavit of Denial of Corporation Existence

I, John Preston: Hickman, a living, breathing full liability man, declare in my own handwriting that the following facts are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

I hereby deny that the following corporations exist: UNITED STATES, THE STATE OF ALABAMA, THE COUNTY OF JEFFERSON, TARRANT CITY, ALABAMA, THE TARRANT CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT, WILLIAM C. HENLY, ALL BAR ASSOCIATIONS, THE TARRANT CITY COURT, JOHN PRESTON HICKMAN, of 3102 WILLOW DRIVE, TARRANT CITY, ALABAMA, and ALL OTHER CORPORATE MEMBERS WHO ARE, OR WHO MAY BE ASSOCIATED WITH ANY COMPLAINTS AGAINST MY NATURAL BODY.

If any man or woman desiring to answer this affidavit, please answer in the manner of this affidavit, with notarized affidavit, using your Christian or family name for signature, and mail to the below named notary, address provided, within five (5) days or default will be obtained.

John Preston: Hickman

On the 25th day of May, 2000 a.d., a man who identified himself as John Preston Hickman appeared before me, a notary, and attested to the truth of this affidavit with his signature.

Wilson R. Nimbly, Notary Public
1423 Fairmon Drive
Tarrant City, Alabama 35217

Three copies of this affidavit should be (preferably) handwritten; one copy forwarded to the Tarrant City Police Department in time to give them five days to respond. One copy should be kept on you when you go to court, and, thirty minutes before you enter the court, take the remaining two copies, file one in their court, have the clerk stamp the other and keep with you in court in case the prosecutor and judge have not received their copies.

Eldon's note: It may be better in Canada to serve by registered mail. Make sure it is sent so as to allow time to get to the Clerk of the Court. Have the affidavit sworn before a notary or a commissioner for oaths. Send at least three copies, and the original.

The way it has gone for us in like situations here, when the "defendant's" name is called, he stands and answers, and the judge will look to the prosecutor and ask him the anticipated action of the charges. The prosecutor (speaking in low tones) replies that the evidence is lacking for prosecution, or something in that manner, and the judge dismisses the case.

This system has worked in many such cases, in a state tax case, where the state was required to return the money taken from the bank accounts of a husband and wife, with the tax "debt" being cleared from the records. I have used it, personally, to place a $150,000.00 lien against a lawyer in Birmingham, Alabama, which has been there for several years. He brought suit in HIS court to have the lien removed, to no avail. Of course I never answered his frivolous suit because I had already identified myself as a living man, and not one of his fictions.

I used the affidavit to stop my phone company from adding AT&T charges for their social engineering, and a couple of other minor purposes; all were stopped cold. The amount of wins in this area, with no losses convinces us that this procedure set up in 1925 by the state legislature of Louisiana is a very valid process, and should be effective, for any and all reasons, against any corporation, public or private, within the United States. There is a case pending against the Social Security administration, or involving social security, and the results will be reported to those who receive this.

Tax liens are official legal charges against an individual, and the affidavit works there also. Remember that IRS is a corporation unto itself, and even though it is not directly connected to the U. S. Government, the fact that it operates within this nation makes it liable to the affidavit. If a bank, for any reason, gives a person's money to those whose signatures are not on the bank card, are committing a crime, and the person giving that money to IRS, the state, or anyone else is personally responsible to the depositor, and an affidavit to that bank should result in the immediate redeposit of those funds. The use of the affidavit is limited only by the imagination, and I think it is about time we make it payback time for those bastards who have milked us dry for the past several decades. I would like to know the results of all who use this system and I will keep a permanent record of all transactions.

One man was hesitant to use this system because "judges just walk all over those who challenge their jurisdiction." Well, with the affidavit we most certainly challenging their jurisdiction, but not in general. Any rebuttal at all is, in a way, challenging their jurisdiction, and that is what it is all about.

What we need to get straight right off is the fact that they DO have jurisdiction in their corporate capacities, but that doesn't mean they can bring noncorporate citizens into that jurisdiction, which is exactly what they have done - through fraud. All we are doing with the affidavit is merely showing them that their assumptions that all men are a part of their scheme are very wrong, and that we have the law on our side that shows them to be wrong.

Corporations, even though they are "legal" fictions, are still businesses; businesses are commercial enterprises, and commercial enterprises are are controlled by the Uniform Commercial Code (http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/ucc.table.html) (UCC). Judges will tell you differently and they will be wrong. Corporations are established by the state, whether federal or otherwise, (government is state) and all states of the Union have accepted the UCC, which originally was established for the District of Columbia, if my information is correct. The UCC is a complicated mass of business jargon to the casual reader, but in reality our rights are contained in the pages of those documents (http://www.worldnewsstand.net/freedom/ucc-connection.htm). Our right to contract, fair play in contracts, business, and all other aspects of human commerce activities are covered in the UCC.

While man, especially the Christian man, is born with the common law in his heart, the English common law was derived from commerce and commercial law itself. In the middle ages, open "fairs," or trading centers were set up in England, and most likely in all other countries of Europe, where people could bring their produce and goods to sell. People would come from all areas of Europe to attend these fairs, or trading centers, and of course squabbling was rampant and constant, so courts of arbitration were established to settle these arguments, and render the exact law on any subject. These courts were called "pied powder courts" because, it is said, that the courts settled arguments before the dust of the well trampled ground could settle on their feet.

If I remember correctly, admiralty and maritime law was derived from this, and separation was made between law of the sea and law of the land, which was included in our Constitution. For a judge to say that he isn't affected by commercial law, or the UCC, is hogwash. I ask them if they aren't under commercial law, then why did it cost me $150.00 to file a case in their courts.

I still pay taxes to support them. Of course, the answer is evaded, and this is another story. The bottom line of the affidavit denying the existence of corporations is that it pierces the corporate veil by an individual, and for the same purposes; the criminal activities of the courts themselves. We, as individual sovereigns, have the right and the duty to question our servants (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmenti)(right of redress), and if the refuse to be questioned then this only proves our contention that they are crooks. It also makes them aliens to our way of life, because they are upholding the policies of the bar associations (http://www.theawaregroup.com/hidingbehindthebar.htm), which are alien corporations, instead of the law of this land. No lawyer, no judge, or other "judicial" agent of this nation is licensed by the state; aka, we the people, to do business - anywhere in the country. Yet, they treat us as aliens in our own venues. This has to stop, and I mean to do everything within my power to help it along.

Ray Earnest

HOMEPAGE is: Click Here (http://www.jusbelli.com/)


Impeachment of 29 judges in Alaska filed in Senate + evidence
IRS is not a agency of the United States Government
IRS can't sue or be sued, No Official Bond
Judicial Notice
Drivers License Revoked Won 5-0
Discovery document - federal and State of Alaska
Bouviers 1856 Law Dictionary - Complete
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.



Current Texas Rules of Court recognize
a man’s right to deny corporate existence:
By a Texas Law Researcher

In "The State of Texas" there are 2 rules in the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure. They are rule 52. ALLEGING A CORPORATION, and rule 93. CERTAIN PLEAS TO BE VERIFIED. Rule 52 is straight forward about the corporation status.

TRCP 52. ALLEGING A CORPORATION


“An allegation that a corporation is incorporated shall be taken as true, unless denied by the affidavit of the adverse party, his agent or attorney, whether such corporation is a public or private corporation and however created.”
In an equity setting where there is a maritime contract in effect . Only like entities can contract with each other. The entities I am talking about are “persons”, entities in a subject to government position (citizens, body politic, corporations, members, employee's and any other man made legal fiction).

Now we get to rule 93. This one is vague but interesting. In the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure, this rule is mentioned in the section on the "Motion to Abate", which is basically an old common law motion. I will reproduce the important parts with my comment in parentheses. - This rule takes up a whole page.


TRCP 93. CERTAIN PLEAS TO BE VERIFIED

“A pleading setting up any of the following matters, unless the truth of such matters appear of record, shall be verified by affidavit.

1. That the plaintiff has not legal capacity to sue or that the defendant has not the legal capacity to be sued. ( if you are not a corporation you would lack capacity, just for fun look up "civilly dead"or "civil death")
2. That the plaintiff is not entitled to recover in the capacity in which he sues, or that the defendant is not liable in the capacity in which he is sued.
(Note: Corporations, or members of a corporation as officers or employees of a corporation) cannot sue a man who is of unlimited liability status.)
3. omitted
4. That there is a defect of parties, plaintiff or defendant. (See Note in #2 above.)
5. omitted
6. That any party alleged in any pleading to be a corporation is not incorporated as alleged. (See note in #2 above)“
Ok. You get the point. This rule goes on to talk about contracts without consideration. It also talks about insurance claims. These pleadings are basically denying “personam jurisdiction” and subject matter jurisdiction.

Here is one more interesting tidbit. The book to which I refer is "O'Connor's Texas Rules Civil Trials 2000". Quoting Justice Michael O'Connor On page XII:

"To reduce gender choices, I refer to trial judges as the "trial court" and to parties as "it" - as though all parties were corporations, which they often are."

What is the significance of this? If you answer to the appelation of "person" in response to a charge under any Statute or Act, you are considered a corporate body without a free will mind.



Proof That Canadian Judges Consider All Canadians
As Being Corporate Entities

Criminal Code of Canada - Notice to corporation
621. (1) The clerk of the court or the prosecutor may, where an indictment is filed against a corporation, cause a notice of the indictment to be served on the corporation.

Comment: This is the only place where indictments are authorised, and for corporations, not for full liability People. The Common Law and the Magna Carta allow ONLY "Good Men of the Neighbourhood" - a Grand Jury to take a man to court.

Contents of notice

(2) A notice of an indictment referred to in subsection (1) shall set out the nature and purport of the indictment and advise that, unless the corporation appears on the date set out in the notice or the date fixed pursuant to subsection 548(2.1), and enters a plea, a plea of not guilty will be entered for the accused by the court, and that the trial of the indictment will be preceded with as though the corporation had appeared and pleaded.
R.S. 1985, c, C-46, S. 621; 1997, c. 18, s.71

Comment: The entering of a plea by a judge is done frequently against Canadians. This activity is only authorized in the Criminal Code of Canada for an accused corporation.

This means that all Canadians are considered corporations or corporate entities; or, the judges have unlawfully assumed authority for which there is no basis. Since the civil codified system (Criminal Code of Canada) is ONLY applicable to corporations or corporate entities, and not to full liability men with God Given rights, that means that Canadians judges are arch-traitors to the People of Canada when they unlawfully assume jurisdiction over them by imagining that they are corporations, and should be facing the death penalty, the penalty for TRAITORS.

Treason is not only aiding the enemy in time of war. It is the act of a servant overthrowing the authority and rights of the master or sovereign. The Canadian People are sovereign over all levels of government.


The REASONS for the Affidavit:

Protocols within the Code (Uniform Commercial Code - UCC)
The foundational maxims of the underlying commercial law, from which all law and commerce in the world today derive, are:


*A workman is worthy of his hire.

*All are equal under the law (moral and natural law). In commerce truth is sovereign.

*Truth is expressed in the form of an affidavit.

*An unrebutted claim, charge, or affidavit stands as the truth in commerce.

*An unrebutted affidavit becomes the judgement in commerce.

*All matters must be expressed to be resolved. He who leaves the field of battle first loses by default.

*Sacrifice is the measure of credibility (one who has not been damaged by, given to, lost on account of, or put at risk by another has no basis to make claims or charges against him/her).

*A lien or claim can be satisfied only through rebuttal by counter affidavit point-for-point, resolution by jury, or payment.

The reason, this scenario prevails is because the world has been set up to run precisely this way.

We (the slaves) were just not supposed to figure it out. Code is Set in Stone

For a greater expansion of the Maxims of Commercial Law, Click Here (http://www.worldnewsstand.net/law/REDEMPTION3.htm)

It MUST be understood that in this fraud that makes you a corporate entity, the Canadian (and American) courts determine whether you are, or are not a corporate member subject to the Crown, or to the corporate UNITED STATES, in the PRE-TRIAL HEARING.

That is, in fact, the so-called "TRIAL" where you MUST have the above noted affidavit, and have it read into the transcript. If you are charged under any statute, the actual trial is an administrative procedure of a dissident slave. Therefore, one must be persistant in demanding that the affidavit denying corporate existence be refuted point by point, or demand that it stand as truth prior to the termination of the pre-trial hearing. The result should only be the quashing of the case for want of proper jurisdiction; and, this upon your request for a motion to quash.

THE SOURCE OF THIS ARTICLE IS DETAX CANADA (http://www.detaxcanada.org/index1.htm)

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/law/corp-veil.htm
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"Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, or at any Federal Reserve bank.-USC Title 12 Chapter 3, Section 411


The information contained here was gathered from sources deemed reliable, however, no claim is made as to its accuracy or content. This does not contain specific recommendations to buy or sell at particular prices or times, nor should any of the examples presented be deemed as such.

gc
07 March 2005, 11:24 AM
Click_Raider, what am I missing here? Why are you specifically sharing this information with us?

RobertB
07 March 2005, 12:01 PM
Click_Raider, what am I missing here? Why are you specifically sharing this information with us?
I think it's just a regularly scheduled test of your "ban member" feature. :)

rantanamo
07 March 2005, 02:07 PM
corporation. Can't live with em, can't live without em. They will be the death of us all.

tamtagon
07 March 2005, 02:22 PM
corporation. Can't live with em, can't live without em. They will be the death of us all.

It seems that the Republican Party is leading charge for American Socialism. I just wish the Republician leaders would realize it, and stop misleading folks through terms like privatization, trickle down, compassionate conservatism etc., and redefine governmental regulation of industries to force economic operational changes which will directly benefit the majority of the population. The right wing approach to strengthening specific institutional figureheads and idealistic morality neglects the overwhelming desire for free expression, and will perpetuate across the board resistance to any "right wing" adjenda on social change.

***
And, the left wing thought leaders have got to get out from under the position of reactionary criticism of proactive right wing initatiaves. No one wins as long as both sides persue policy designed mostly to defend a point of view rather than make a better place to live.

RobertB
07 March 2005, 02:37 PM
^^ that's why I vote Green:

Neither right nor left, but out in front! (http://www.dallasgreens.net/)

trolleygirl
07 March 2005, 04:03 PM
Click_Raider, what am I missing here? Why are you specifically sharing this information with us?

He must be a first-year law student on speed without a broad network of "friends".

Well, on second thought, either that or a complete social reject.

warlock55
07 March 2005, 04:12 PM
It seems that the Republican Party is leading charge for American Socialism. I just wish the Republician leaders would realize it, and stop misleading folks through terms like privatization, trickle down, compassionate conservatism etc., and redefine governmental regulation of industries to force economic operational changes which will directly benefit the majority of the population. The right wing approach to strengthening specific institutional figureheads and idealistic morality neglects the overwhelming desire for free expression, and will perpetuate across the board resistance to any "right wing" adjenda on social change.

***
And, the left wing thought leaders have got to get out from under the position of reactionary criticism of proactive right wing initatiaves. No one wins as long as both sides persue policy designed mostly to defend a point of view rather than make a better place to live.

I completely agree. The Democrats should be leading their own charge for American Socialism. Solidarity brothers!

gc
07 March 2005, 04:12 PM
^ Be nice TG.

I am jsut trying to find relevance here...that is all.

rantanamo
07 March 2005, 04:17 PM
Its pretty relevent stuff as far as social issues go. I think, but that's not my call for this board.

gc
07 March 2005, 04:20 PM
Its pretty relevent stuff as far as social issues go. I think, but that's not my call for this board.

Okay fine. I am in the dark here. Please give me a local issue that relates to this and let's talk about it that way, otherwise I'm missing that connnection.

rantanamo
07 March 2005, 04:31 PM
how about the role of the corporation in bringing back vs killing Dallas and its economy.

Strong mayor-debate and who is on what side.

Why DART does/does not get funding at certain times.

Park Lane Place and other TIF issues/who gets money and why.

Illlegal 'investments' by council members

Conventions, CVB, CC Hotel

Victory's existance

If you kill it though, I won't lose any sleep. Its a very broad topic.

gc
07 March 2005, 04:40 PM
Okay, let me rephrase.

What purpose does 4 pages of legal jargon do? I mean I can post laws and other legal jargon and say it is relevant to anything, right? I am not trying to kill the thread, but rather understand the nature and specific reason for posting it.

That's all.

Columbus Civil
07 March 2005, 04:42 PM
He must be a first-year law student on speed without a broad network of "friends".

Well, on second thought, either that or a complete social reject

You say that like it's a bad thing.

St-T
07 March 2005, 04:44 PM
^We are so feisty today... jeeeze.

rantanamo
07 March 2005, 04:45 PM
Okay, let me rephrase.

What purpose does 4 pages of legal jargon do? I mean I can post laws and other legal jargon and say it is relevant to anything, right? I am not trying to kill the thread, but rather understand the nature and specific reason for posting it.

That's all.
my bad

warlock55
07 March 2005, 04:59 PM
Strong mayor-debate and who is on what side.

Oh no, how many threads does this need to get dragged into? Draw the line! Draw the line! :eek:

trolleygirl
07 March 2005, 06:17 PM
Okay, let me rephrase.

What purpose does 4 pages of legal jargon do? I mean I can post laws and other legal jargon and say it is relevant to anything, right? I am not trying to kill the thread, but rather understand the nature and specific reason for posting it.

That's all.

I think only Click Raider can answer those questions but he doesn't seem to want to respond to anything. I would say, if someone starts a thread and then doesn't respond to questions, it's just taking up space. I think that's pretty crummy of someone to post something and then not even say way when asked.

Then again, maybe he's just trying to get a rise out of us.

gc
07 March 2005, 06:32 PM
Yes, I am waiting for Click to respond.

sterling
07 March 2005, 11:33 PM
Yes, I am waiting for Click to respond.

English would be nice. I just hope I don't have to forward to five people and enclose a dollar with each letter when I decipher it.

Click_Raider
11 March 2005, 04:11 AM
ABOUT THAT SSI CARD:

From the beginning ..... from whence it all began!

When you were an infant and your PARENTS made application for "commercial title" (commercial trust agreement) for your live birth (birth certificate), did you have any say or decision in the covenants or performance clauses contained in that contract "by and between" your parents and the state, a contract that would affect you and your existence for the rest of your life?

Is the birth certificate contract a valid legal contract when you were claimed by the parties as a "economic prize," colluded by both your parents and state WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT AND KNOWLEDGE? All contracts to be valid require consent, namely that the contract was accepted willingly, knowingly and voluntarily by the affected party (UCC 1-207 & 1-103) .... may the contract be a valid legal enforceable contract when you, a natural person were in essence pledged without your consent or knowledge as commercial chattel goods and property in equity, namely as commercial collateral for the State and banking systems debts?

The birth certificate serves as THE very first foundational document and is used as the corpus (body) of evidence that you have been officially pledged, transformed and placed in the dual status of sovereign Citizen and corporate citizen person in the commercial credit system ....

When you and your parents joined and/or placed you into the public school system, little league, pee-wee football, cubscouts or any of the numerous youth activities, ... what was the first documented item requested? "A REGISTERED BIRTH CERTIFICATE!" When you applied for your first driver license/learner permit, what was the first item requested? "A birth certificate!"

The "birth certificate" is the foundational basis upon which all commercial, adhesion and every other form of commercial public and private contract or commercial presentment is based, constructed and built upon. The birth certificate is the "ground" and everything else is just up, resting upon the STENGTH of the ground (birth certificate contract)!

Now we have already ascertained that the proscribed parties, "the parents and the state" that entered into this commercial contract without YOUR consent or knowledge possessed either no legal right or maybe only a limited right in some cases to pledge you, "a natural person" as chattel property and collateral by contract .... and since ALL commercal administrative law and presentments rely upon the strength of the birth certificate contract as the foundational basis for all proceeding legal nexus thereafter, thus it becomes self evident that the birth certificate contract must be LEGALLY RENOUNCED in toto as a proper enforceable contract that was never binding on YOU in any way from the very beginning .... No person, persons or institution may by design or through ignorance use force or deception via contracts against another person or persons, either for his/their own advantage or for the advantage of third persons ... Any contracts or advantages orginating from such a scheme shall be, and are null and void ab initio as if they never existed.

There are four essential elements in a contract:

1. consent of the parties,
2. contractual capacity in them,
3. determinate and lawful subject-matter, and
4. a lawful consideration.

The contract is formed by the mutual consent of the parties, which must be real, not feigned, and manifested so that each may know that the other party consents.

If a mistake about the mere quality of the subject-matter of the contract is accidental, not substantial, and in spite of it there is a substantial agreement between the parties. If, however, such a mistake has been caused by the fraud or "misrepresentation" of the other party to the contract, and the party deceived would not otherwise have entered into it, it is only fair that the "deceived party" should be able to protect himself from injury by retiring from the agreement. Contracts, then, entered into because of "accidental mistake" which was induced by the "fraud or misrepresentation" of the "other party", will be rescindable at the option of the party deceived.

The consent of the parties must be "deliberate and free", for a perfect and grave obligation cannot arise from consent which is not deliberate or free.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04332a.htm

Thus it is an axiomatic jural fact that if it is proven that the birth certificate contract is found wanting by fraud, misrepresentation or accident from its very inception, then it is rescindable and may be claimed moot, null and void,

AND ....

Every contract built upon or associated with the strength of the initiating contract will fail in toto also, including the SS#, DL, tax schemes, and every other scheme reliant upon the tenants of the originating contract agreement, etc. ....

After many hours of legal research and understanding of what constitutes a legal, valid, binding, enforceable CONTRACT, my personal opinion and conclusion requires that for one to remove and/or extricate themself from the corporate fourth branch commercial jurisdiction, one must let it be known to all men and "persons" alike (public and private) that the the foundational contract is renounced null and void and no longer accepted as a "matter of fact," or as a "matter of law" ....

Now consider, have you EVER challenged the validity of the originating contract or have you been ignorant and uninformed ? .... Unknowingly but voluntarily accepting the performance clauses of the unchallenged contract as a matter of custom or by lack of knowledge?

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge" --Hosea 4:6

If you are a Judge, and "ignorance of the law is no excuse," the Judge, by constitutional law of VOLUNTARY contracts (Art. I, section 10) is forced to PRESUME that: "since you have never challenged or renounced the initial commercial contract" or any commercial contract thereafter, that authorizes ALL commercial contracts thereon and thereof, that you must be a happy camper that is willingly, knowingly and voluntarily accepting the commercial jurisdiction and all of the rules, codes, regulations and statutes .... namely because you have NEVER DENIED your corporate existence!