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CTroyMathis
28 December 2002, 05:02 PM
Mass transit on right track with trolleys
By O.K. Carter
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

Back a few months, when Arlington voters first blackjacked then kicked a mass-transit proposal to death, the election autopsy -- uh, analysis -- was brutal: Voters found the package unimaginative and didn't want to pay the tab.

About the only part of mass transit that Arlington's residents fantasized about was rail, and rail is pricey.

Still, there's this: If rail is what people want, give them rail or at least a bit of rail action to see how they like it. While we're at it, make it funky rail -- old-fashion trolley cars loaded with new technology.

One need only journey cross-country to Portland, Ore., to eyeball such a phenomenon. There, a 5-mile trolley route loops through Portland State University, downtown and a hospital complex. The rails sport modular European-made trams, with each 66-foot car carrying up to 100 passengers. There's no figuring out bus or train schedules. The trams just show up every few minutes, the delays of frequent stops being compensated because traffic lights automatically turn green as they approach.

Ho hum, you say? Consider this: The relatively short streetcar system in Portland has triggered $1.5 billion in new construction along its line, boosting property taxes in the area 40 percent. It has been a bonanza of retail, commercial and residential redevelopment.

There's evidently something about the permanence of rail as opposed to a bus line that invites investment.

The implication of economic development fueled by mass transit is that something like a tax-increment district could be used as a partial funding mechanism. TIDs use increased tax revenues resulting from economic development to pay for amenities like mass transit.

Putting mass transit in limited areas would also allow another bit of funding gadgetry to be installed -- the special assessment district.

Right about here is where most mass-transit advocates begin moaning about Arlington not having enough population density -- people per square mile -- to support mass transit. But Portland's density is 3,030 persons per square mile, while Arlington is at 3,454, with future built-out density calculated to be near 4,000. By contrast, the mass-transit-soaked San Francisco area is currently at 3,210 people per square mile.

Conclusion: Arlington is dense enough, and it has an even more attractive bit of potential streetcar route than Portland. Cooper Street from Interstate 20 to Interstate 30 is 5.5 miles. It goes through a major university and downtown, as well as a hospital district, as well as the city's prime shopping area.

Construction of trolley systems -- really a version of light rail -- avoids a lot of costly and time-consuming construction hassles. Streetcar rails are placed in the right lane of traffic on 8-foot cross-sections. Since an excavation of only about a foot is required, costly disruption of utilities is avoided. In Portland, each block took about three weeks construction time.

Construction cost runs about $1 million a mile -- cheap as rail goes -- though the complete system in Portland with trams cost a bit over $50 million. It was all locally funded to avoid state and federal red tape.

It has been so successful that Portland is looking to expand the system with six more miles of line, using mostly tax increment and special assessment district funding -- no sales or property taxes. People who don't benefit don't pay. Fair enough.

Interesting, yes? And certainly worthy of investigation by a city like Arlington. Clearly, it's going to take something both innovative and affordable to generate interest in mass transit. Why not a trolley?

bloodandpopcorn
28 December 2002, 05:08 PM
I'd love for trolley to happen and flourish in Arlington, but what would it take? Would Arlington residents really vote to pay $50 million for a 5.5 mile trolley system that doesn't help, or even effect, most of the people in the city? I hope they would (and do), but from what (and who) i know of Arlington, that wouldn't receive the support that would be needed.

darkblood
09 July 2005, 07:55 PM
Another thing Arlington really needs is a rail line running along I-30, connecting downtown Dallas and downtown Ft. Worth. With the new stadium being built very close to Six Flags, Hurricane harbor, the ballpark, several malls, and a smattering of restaurants that area will become seriously overwhelmed with traffic.

I don't know about you, but after a day of wandering around Six Flags I wouldn't mind getting on a train to avoid driving home.

The rail line could split and one part of it goes south to the stadiums and Six Flags, while the north part goes to Hurricane Harbor and several attractions up there.

Darkblood
*Rail junkie*
-2k5

rantanamo
10 July 2005, 12:12 AM
The problem is, it makes too much sense

CityLove
10 July 2005, 12:24 AM
Oooh goodness gracious. The one thing I have to say is, let the Lord be with those poor streetcar motormen having to operate in traffic on Cooper St, of all places!!!! No siree, I'll pass, thank you.

I smell lots, and lots, and lots of accidents.

saxman66
12 July 2005, 05:16 PM
Another thing Arlington really needs is a rail line running along I-30, connecting downtown Dallas and downtown Ft. Worth. With the new stadium being built very close to Six Flags, Hurricane harbor, the ballpark, several malls, and a smattering of restaurants that area will become seriously overwhelmed with traffic.

I don't know about you, but after a day of wandering around Six Flags I wouldn't mind getting on a train to avoid driving home.

The rail line could split and one part of it goes south to the stadiums and Six Flags, while the north part goes to Hurricane Harbor and several attractions up there.

Darkblood
*Rail junkie*
-2k5

The NCTCOG does have plans to have the UP line from Dallas to Fort Worth with commuter rail. It would be the southern route as opposed to the TRE's current route. Amtrak currently runs on this UP line. The only problem is, this track is owned by UP, and there is lots of freight traffic. You'd have to double or even triple track the entire line.

texman
12 July 2005, 07:48 PM
The UP main line is already double tracked. According to NCTCOG's studies, all that would have to be added for commuter rail feasibility would be 3rd track. http://www.nctcog.org/trans/public_trans/Regional_Rail/W-1/Meetings/May/Final%20W-1%20P-T%20Meeting%20presentation%20051404.pdf

msutton
12 July 2005, 09:28 PM
do it!

are they still working on making the entire TRE double-tracked? Last time I rode it it seemed like the were trying to add more double-tracked sections.

texman
13 July 2005, 02:46 AM
Yeah, I don't know when its supposed to be all done, but I know as of right now there in the middle of double tracking the entire route, exemoting the Fort Worth Trinity River crossing and Centerport Station.

RobertB
13 July 2005, 11:26 AM
The UP main line is already double tracked. According to NCTCOG's studies, all that would have to be added for commuter rail feasibility would be 3rd track. http://www.nctcog.org/trans/public_trans/Regional_Rail/W-1/Meetings/May/Final%20W-1%20P-T%20Meeting%20presentation%20051404.pdf
You say that as though it's no more difficult than throwing another lane onto a roadway. It's much more complex than that. The UP main line through Dallas and Fort Worth is a primary coast-to-coast frieght corridor, with over 50 trains a day (according to a DART file that I can't find at the moment). When the railroad performed routine maintenance on the track a year or so ago, the project took months to complete and I want to say $25 or $50 million. And that was just to fix up what was already there.

Railroads aren't like highways. When you add a lane to a highway, you can squeeze the existing traffic into tighter lanes, or divert them to another roadway entirely. You can't do that with a five-engine two-mile-long train hauling thousands of tons of cargo. Adding a third line means that every single wye on that side of the track must be dismantled and replaced, a process that makes the original line unavailable for use and causes a bottleneck on the other line.

And that doesn't even begin to tough the complexities of scheduling that passenger service. It's not just a matter of putting more trains on the tracks. There's a complex system of safeguards in place -- without them, you can easily have a situation like the one yesterday in Pakistan: About 120 people have been killed after three passenger trains collided in Pakistan (http://www.itv.com/news/index_2074312.html)

As simple as it sounds, the only way to run commuter rail along the UP corridor through Grand Prairie and Arlington is if the cross-country freight trains go elsewhere. This is a possibility -- it could happen as part of the Trans-Texas Corridor, or it could even happen without the TTC now that people have started thinking about it more seriously. Otherwise, those rails are going to stay dedicated to freight, except for the occasional Amtrak train.

texman
13 July 2005, 04:17 PM
Robertb, I'm not stupid. I know railroads cant be built or "widened" like Highways and I know the complexities of doing so. But you have to be more opptimistic. If Amtrak can run 11 trains a day along their Surfliner Route (http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/rail/amcalroutes/rtes.htm#sd) with countless other commuter trains and UP frieght, not to mention it's all done on a single track line, I'm sure it something can be done here with commuter rail.

mikedsjr
15 July 2005, 10:16 AM
As simple as it sounds, the only way to run commuter rail along the UP corridor through Grand Prairie and Arlington is if the cross-country freight trains go elsewhere. This is a possibility -- it could happen as part of the Trans-Texas Corridor, or it could even happen without the TTC now that people have started thinking about it more seriously. Otherwise, those rails are going to stay dedicated to freight, except for the occasional Amtrak train.

True.

But what they should have done is run commuter rail along 30 within the highway expansion project. That would have been more ideal.

Maybe they can use hot air balloons instead of rail. Everyone get a one way ticket.

rantanamo
15 July 2005, 12:11 PM
^creating a visual. The great balloon highway. Another tourist attraction that will spur growth, tax revenue and catapult Arlington past Dallas and Fort Worth.

RobertB
15 July 2005, 01:11 PM
True.

But what they should have done is run commuter rail along 30 within the highway expansion project. That would have been more ideal.

Maybe they can use hot air balloons instead of rail. Everyone get a one way ticket.
For the $300 million they're spending on the destructive SH 161 extension through Grand Prairie -- never more than 3 miles from SH 360 -- I'm sure they could have added rail to I-30. Of course, even the hot-air baloons would be a better buy for the money than the SH 161 extension.

rantanamo
15 July 2005, 02:07 PM
A skyride would be even cooler

RobertB
15 July 2005, 02:58 PM
A skyride would be even cooler
I wish I could find the thread that proposed a Fair Park - Deep Ellum - Downtown - Oak Cliff skyride. There's no reason* you couldn't just run it all the way down old US 80 through GP and Arlington to downtown Fort Worth! Ever wonder what all those old hotels look like from above?

* No reason... other than reality. :)

rantanamo
15 July 2005, 07:16 PM
MAny might think it ridiculous, but its not really. You could have nice, enclosed cars that run at a pretty good clip. It would definitely be something unique in such a relatively flat landscape.

RobertB
15 July 2005, 08:07 PM
Ok, back to the original topic, and reality. Now, it should be noted that this thread dates back to 2002, and is only active because Darkblood (aka The Mad Bumper) bounced it to the top. I wish I could find my .pdf's from that year, when the city had put together some proposals for light rail service. Failing that, I'll have to come up with a map of the routing mentioned above... I think it might be able to link up to a proposed spur of the TRE southward into the Great Southwest industrial area.

darkblood
16 July 2005, 12:59 PM
Ok, back to the original topic, and reality. Now, it should be noted that this thread dates back to 2002, and is only active because Darkblood (aka The Mad Bumper) bounced it to the top. I wish I could find my .pdf's from that year, when the city had put together some proposals for light rail service. Failing that, I'll have to come up with a map of the routing mentioned above... I think it might be able to link up to a proposed spur of the TRE southward into the Great Southwest industrial area.

YAY! I have a malicious title!

Actually I bumped this because I saw on the news the proposed site for the new stadium, and said to the person next to me "Ok they have Six Flags, the ballpark, Hurricane Harbor, and the new stadium all in the same place. I smell disaster."

So I wrote the city of Arlington about the disaster I smelt. I have yet to receive a reply. Then I thought "What does the super-cool Dallas-Fort Worth Urban Forum say about this?"

Darkblood
*Master of empty threats*
-2k5

rantanamo
16 July 2005, 01:03 PM
I just think they are crazy not to tie them all together and tie them together to the rest of the metroplex with better people moving prospects.

45b18mt
12 October 2005, 01:35 PM
I heard why the only reason why they didn't approve the transit idea was because a bunch of auto dealers and spoiled rich people didn't want to lose any money. This is why I moved because when summer came I would be stuck in doors because I didn't have a automobile and their wasn't no transit around.

NThomas
20 November 2005, 04:59 PM
it's kinda sad for UTA, Six Flags, Ameriquest Feild, Hurricane Harbor, and the new Cowboys stadium to be in a city where if you were a visitor, your forced to rent a car

texman
20 November 2005, 09:16 PM
it's kinda sad for UTA, Six Flags, Ameriquest Feild, Hurricane Harbor, and the new Cowboys stadium to be in a city where if you were a visitor, your forced to rent a car
Its funny too, the UP line runs right next to all of those.

FoUTASportscaster
21 November 2005, 02:40 AM
Don't worry, being an active student at UTA, I saw firsthand how the city takes my alma mater for granted. Another reason why I despise that city.