Parkland Station

[texman]

Ok, after looking over the DART plans for the NW corridor I'm so lost about the location of Parkland Station. I've seen 3 different locations/options for it, (1)one in the median of Harry Hines (that looks awesome), (2)another is in an open cut/tunnel, (3)while the 3rd option is elevated way off on Motor Street.
Heres all 3:

(1)
http://www.dart.org/nweis/images/parklandstationbasealignmentdec01.jpg

(2)
http://www.dart.org/nweis/images/medicalcenterstationdec01.gif

(3)
http://www.dart.org/nweis/no5figure3.htm

Can anyone tell me which one DART is going with. I'm thinking 3 since it was the last one in the NWIS newsletter. Maybe robertb can help?

[freewaytincan]

This could be complex.

[clipper]

I'm told they opted for a location about midway between Harry Hines and Maple Avenue along Motor Street. Some existing rail tracks run there now.

[texman]

I'm told they opted for a location about midway between Harry Hines and Maple Avenue along Motor Street. Some existing rail tracks run there now.

Thats sucks. Im really digging the station in the middle of Harry Hines with the mezzanie level and skybridges connecting to the hosipitals. I found this: Med school battles DART line (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2002/05/20/story1.html) Supposedly the medical center didn't want it there since it "cut right through there master plan," but I don't see how it causes a problem since they have Harry Hines running straight through too. If your right clipper there going to go with (3) on my original post.

[psukhu]

After living in NYC, I noticed that overhead trains form barriers that divide neighborhoods, mainly in Queens and Brooklyn. (think downtown Dallas and the freeways around it)

When shopping for apartments in Queens, it was clear the train lines formed a demographic border of sorts.

I think UT Southwest is just looking out for the future of their campus.

[tamtagon]

I think UT Southwest is just looking out for the future of their campus.

I'm in favor of that. UT Southwest will prompt a substantial new industry presence in Dallas. I hope they change the name of the school.

[texman]

After living in NYC, I noticed that overhead trains form barriers that divide neighborhoods, mainly in Queens and Brooklyn. (think downtown Dallas and the freeways around it)

When shopping for apartments in Queens, it was clear the train lines formed a demographic border of sorts.

I think UT Southwest is just looking out for the future of their campus.

I still don't understand how Harry Hines ISNT a demographic barrier in there masterplan and yeat an elevated train line would be. They have all the skybridge connections so it wouldn't be a barrier. I'm sorry, but I still think a rail line through the center of their masterplan (unlike a highway) would help, not hurt.

[Mballar]

^UT SW and Parkland didn't want the elevated station in the median because they felt it would interfere with their plans for future expansion. So rather than work with DART and fashion their plans to include the DART station, the told DART to forget about it and subsequently DART had to change the alignment and move the station farther north. I personally think that the median is exactly where the station should go.

[freewaytincan]

I personally think that the median is exactly where the station should go.

As do I. This is silly, don't they realize it can only help their expansion plans?!

[texman]

As do I. This is silly, don't they realize it can only help their expansion plans?!

Thats exactly what I'm saying.

[RobertB]

As do I. This is silly, don't they realize it can only help their expansion plans?!
It's difficult to judge without actually seeing their expansion plans. But from driving around the area when my wife worked at Children's Medical Center, I think I see what they're trying to do. Currently, the Parkland complex is a disorganized hodgepodge of randomly placed additions, with names like "north wing" and "north north wing". Their competition is newer, master-planned facilities like Medical City Dallas and the even newer hospitals in the northern suburbs. To remain competitive, they'll need new, modern facilities, and the only place to build them is on the other side of Harry Hines Blvd.

Combine that with the awful access. Everything is currently centered on Harry Hines, which leads to a mess if you're trying to pick up, drop off, visit, or just drive past. I don't think they want to continue to be tied to the street as they expand across it -- it's a problem with no good solution. Putting the station in the middle of Harry Hines only serves to make a bad situation worse, by adding the station's traffic to the mix.

If they want DART to be an integral part of their future plans, it makes sense to put the LRT in an area of future development. I don't think this is a situation like the Victory debacle, where DART's handy access conflicted with the arena's parking revenue. Parkland (and the rest of the hospital district) plans to grow, and they're putting the station in a location where it will be most needed -- not in the next 5 years, but in the next 50.

[zigwamo]

I think it was just UTSW, not Parkland, that had a problem. I think DART wanted a Parkland Station and a UTSW Station. Parkland might be served well by the new station (after future expansions). But those who work at UTSW will have to take a shuttle from the station to UTSW South or North Campus. My experience has been that riding a train, and then having to then take a shuttle, really detracts from the rail experience, not to mentioning adding 10 minutes or more to the commute. One begins to wonder, if I have to take a bus anyways, why didn't I just take the bus the whole way?

While I'm at it, the next stop on the line, at Inwood and Denton Dr. (?), is very odd. There is not much over there at all. How frustrating to see two stations which have virtually no employers or residents within convenient walking distance. In between the two stations are massive employment centers.

This adds to a problem I mentioned once before. If you live way out in Plano or something, it is useful to have rail get you to one of these stations that is merely nearby the destination. Even if you then have to get on a shuttle, it is faster than taking the bus the whole way from Plano. If you lived in uptown near cityplace station, or near another in-town station, you would also want to be able to take rail. But you are already close enough to your destination that, given the fact that you would have to wait for a shuttle after taking the rail, it might have been just as fast or faster to take the bus. This is especially true given that the station might also be a bit too far from where you live. Again, if you live in the suburbs, you might still find it convenient to drive to the nearest station and park. But this is a bit ridiculous if you live in town, just a few stops from your destination. My conclusion is that DART does not serve well those who live in the urban areas of Dallas, and it mostly serves suburbanites. I wish DART could serve both--and it could if the station placements were more convenient.

[texman]

It's difficult to judge without actually seeing their expansion plans. But from driving around the area when my wife worked at Children's Medical Center, I think I see what they're trying to do. Currently, the Parkland complex is a disorganized hodgepodge of randomly placed additions, with names like "north wing" and "north north wing". Their competition is newer, master-planned facilities like Medical City Dallas and the even newer hospitals in the northern suburbs. To remain competitive, they'll need new, modern facilities, and the only place to build them is on the other side of Harry Hines Blvd.

Combine that with the awful access. Everything is currently centered on Harry Hines, which leads to a mess if you're trying to pick up, drop off, visit, or just drive past. I don't think they want to continue to be tied to the street as they expand across it -- it's a problem with no good solution. Putting the station in the middle of Harry Hines only serves to make a bad situation worse, by adding the station's traffic to the mix.

If they want DART to be an integral part of their future plans, it makes sense to put the LRT in an area of future development. I don't think this is a situation like the Victory debacle, where DART's handy access conflicted with the arena's parking revenue. Parkland (and the rest of the hospital district) plans to grow, and they're putting the station in a location where it will be most needed -- not in the next 5 years, but in the next 50.

Thank you Robertb! I was wondering when you were gonna come read this and reply. You have insight on these type of things.

[texman]

I think it was just UTSW, not Parkland, that had a problem. I think DART wanted a Parkland Station and a UTSW Station. Parkland might be served well by the new station (after future expansions). But those who work at UTSW will have to take a shuttle from the station to UTSW South or North Campus. My experience has been that riding a train, and then having to then take a shuttle, really detracts from the rail experience, not to mentioning adding 10 minutes or more to the commute. One begins to wonder, if I have to take a bus anyways, why didn't I just take the bus the whole way?

While I'm at it, the next stop on the line, at Inwood and Denton Dr. (?), is very odd. There is not much over there at all. How frustrating to see two stations which have virtually no employers or residents within convenient walking distance. In between the two stations are massive employment centers.

This adds to a problem I mentioned once before. If you live way out in Plano or something, it is useful to have rail get you to one of these stations that is merely nearby the destination. Even if you then have to get on a shuttle, it is faster than taking the bus the whole way from Plano. If you lived in uptown near cityplace station, or near another in-town station, you would also want to be able to take rail. But you are already close enough to your destination that, given the fact that you would have to wait for a shuttle after taking the rail, it might have been just as fast or faster to take the bus. This is especially true given that the station might also be a bit too far from where you live. Again, if you live in the suburbs, you might still find it convenient to drive to the nearest station and park. But this is a bit ridiculous if you live in town, just a few stops from your destination. My conclusion is that DART does not serve well those who live in the urban areas of Dallas, and it mostly serves suburbanites. I wish DART could serve both--and it could if the station placements were more convenient.

Well its mostly political about DART serving mostly suburbanites. Farmer's Branch or Carollton would be having a fit if uptown was served by a line before them.