Uptown: Gables Villa Rosa Apts

[Kelley USA]

Developers have bought one of the last large development sites in Dallas' Turtle Creek corridor for a major new apartment community.

Gables Residential, already one of the biggest apartment landlords in the booming Uptown district, acquired the site at Cedar Springs Road and Carlisle. It's a block from the Quadrangle shopping center.

Gables will develop the property in two steps. The first phase will include 300 apartments in a seven-story building at Carlisle and Vine Street.

Construction will start in May, said Peter Petricca, Gables' regional vice president of development and acquisitions.

"On the second phase [which fronts on Cedar Springs], we are not sure how big it will end up, but it will be mixed-use," Mr. Petricca said. "We will not try to re-create West Village, but we'll do 20,000 to 30,000 square feet of retail with the apartments."

Mr. Petricca said all the buildings will be designed in a Mediterranean style to complement other developments in the area.

Gables owns the Mirabella apartments at Routh and Cedar Springs, which are also done in a pseudo-Mediterranean style.

Based in Boca Raton, Fla., Gables already owns seven large apartment communities in Dallas' Uptown and Turtle Creek neighborhoods.

Gables bought the Cedar Springs site from Carrozza Investments, which had owned the property for several years.

"There just aren't many sites to build on that are that size," said broker Newt Walker, who's just been hired by Sofitel Hotels to market a smaller vacant tract across the street at Carlisle and Cedar Springs.

Property in the area has sold recently for between $50 and $70 per square foot, depending on location and zoning.

At the same time Gables is growing in Uptown, the developer is pushing ahead with plans to redevelop one of downtown Dallas' landmark skyscrapers.

Mr. Petricca said Gables plans to begin construction this summer to convert the vacant Republic National Bank Building at Bryan and Ervay into more than 200 apartments.

Redevelopment of the 36-story aluminum-clad office tower will cost almost $40 million.

[jammin]

Great news.

[bloodandpopcorn]

Indeed it is great news!! I can't wait to see what retail they get here... It's awsome to see these last few vacant lots being developed into great residential properties...

[Kelley USA]

I heard that an early candidate for the retail portion is a CVS pharmacy or Walgreen's... OK- just kidding- but it sure seems like these names are mentioned with every development now... How many drugstores can we eventually squeeze into one area!

[psukhu]

Just a matter of time before there are no more vacant lots. At that point "verticle" will be the only option.

[crescentboi]

"There just aren't many sites to build on that are that size," said broker Newt Walker, who's just been hired by Sofitel Hotels to market a smaller vacant tract across the street at Carlisle and Cedar Springs.

So what is this...? Is there plans for another new hotel? I remember that years ago there were talks of a Sofitel being built here, but I though that all died out!?

[Kelley USA]

I think that Sofitel actually hired Newt to sell the property they bought... They probably held onto it for some time in the hopes that the plans may pick up again- but with the announcement of W and perhaps Ritz-Carlton I'm sure they decided to scrap any plans they might have had. Plus the market is hot and they can probably make a profit on the land now...

[psukhu]

So this is the lot that is bound by Cedar Springs/Carlisle/Vine/Cole?

Or are they talking about the lot across the street that is adjacent to the Katy Trail?

[clipper]

It's the smaller lot up against the Katy Trail on Cedar Springs. Right by the bridge. The hotel has decided to bail and sell the dirt.

[CTroyMathis]

Gables bought the Cedar Springs site from Carrozza Investments, which had owned the property for several years.

^ That for sure confirms (http://www.downtowndallas.org/housing2001.PDF) what was seemed to be an obvious dead project for ages (http://memphis.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/1999/02/08/story2.html?page=2) by Carrozza Investments called Villa Trevi (http://dallasmetropolis.com/photos/dalctm-uc031.JPG).

...

Anyhow, really great news!

[bloodandpopcorn]

hmm... well, i certainly hope whatever end up being built here is slightly more architecturally interesting than that! Too bad it can't be that tall, or taller... I hope it's a very striking project, though. And Kelly, you're right! So many drugstores coming in; it's crazy. I hope this doesnt' follow that trend!

[rantanamo]

The drug stores are simply a product of an aging population

[clipper]

And the profits the drug companies are generating. Anyone who can pay $60 to $70 psf for a single-story retail site isn't operating under the same economic system as the rest of the world.

[Chevytexas]

Sorry to be pedantic, but...
the "former" Sofitel lot is the one against the Katy Trail right of way; it had many drainage problems. The "it" lot that originated this thread is the larger lot on Cedar Springs at Routh, in the block south of the old Quadrangle, bounded by Vine Street and Carlisle. It was the proposed site of The Trevi (okay, I've said it before: a sign doth not a development make), and before that something called the Dallas Arts Center. Before that, it was the lovely "vineyard" neighborhood and some great hippie houses graced Carlisle from the last century. I don't what improvement another Gables ("Black Mold our Specialty") development would be.

[jsoto3]

I live at Carlisle on the Creek at the northwest corner of Carlisle & Hall. Just north is a huge vacant lot, southwest corner of Carlisle/Cole & Lemmon, right against the Katy Trail. They just put up a 'sale pending' sign. Anyone heard of what is planned for this site (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=250&addtohistory=&address=carlisle+%26+lemmon&city=dallas&state=&zipcode=75204&submit=Get+Map)?

[Chevytexas]

Wow, it could be aaanything. In its former life, it was the lip of the chalk limestone ledge high above Turtle Creek; in the 70s it was a surface-built low-rise office complex. Then, a bank (which failed, as always) bought the lot and had about six to ten stories (I'm not kiddin') hole dug into the limestone.

It never came a thing, and the hole was filled in (again and again, as you might imagine), to await its fate as a parking garage. As far as I know, it's still zoned mixed-use, residential/retail, so it would require rezoning for just residential, or mixed PD residential/office.

It's been for sale the whole time, by varying realtors; I think this is just the sort of lending climate that encourages everyone to put out a sign. I know I have:)

[Columbus Civil]

Are you talking about the former "Hole on Cole"? That's supposed to be a CVS drugstore.

[Kelley USA]

If I remember correctly- this is going to be the site of a CVS drugstore... (I see I was just beat to the punch)...

[jsoto3]

Damn!! I will be so disappointed if this is indeed going to be a CVS. Interesting info about the giant, unseen hole there. How long ago was it filled? Seems like it is begging to be filled (excavated first) with a parking garage with dense development built atop. The site has so much potential. Being an architect/urban designer/devloper-wannabe, I have had visions for this site since I moved into the neighborhood. But I guess this situation falls into the same category as the former Red Cross site, as discussed by ChevyT in another thread: huge potential + tricky economics + bad timing + short-sighted developer = small unispired project. Perhaps this site (and the countless other great sites dotting Uptown) will live up to its potential in 50 years, once the area fills out and economics warrant high quality dense development.

I would love to see photos of the site over its history. ChevyT, any thoughts on where I might find some?

[JaeTex]

I remember riding the school bus past that site in junior high (85-86ish...has it been that long?) and remember them digging the hole. At the time I think the plan was for retirement living, can't recall when the hole was filled.

Interesting question is what will be done with the rest of that lot (the hole,not the one that started this thread),presumably the whole thing won't be a CVS 'cause that would be a big drug store. So I would think the lot still has potential for an eckerds to be built.

[clipper]

The Cole on Hole was dug for a high-rise spa/condo/hotel project that was planned with funny S&L money in the 80s. The developer was named Larry Lassiter. They dug the hole, began selling units then went broke and then the city had to pay to fill in. And yes, it's going to be CVS - just what we needed, more drugstores.

[psukhu]

I guess these drug stores are more than just drug stores. They sell all kinds of stuff and many of then are open 24 hours, even on holidays.

Most dense cities have a convenient store on every corner.

[Kelley USA]

I agree- I just hate that in an area like Uptown we're going to have a new CVS just a block away from a Walgreen's... If Uptown was starving for new development I wouldn't mind so much- just hate to see a great piece of property wasted on a drugstore!!!

[jsoto3]

Just when I thought things were looking up for Uptown and Downtown, most of the recent development news (not to mention the Trinity project and Project Pegasus) has been bad and I am losing hope that central Dallas will come even close to its potential.

[214]

how do you guys know that it is going to be a another drugstore?

i really hope not!!!!! THis is really bad news,they should be building a 20-30 story residentila or office tower on that site,im sure you could fit a couple of towers on that site

How many drugstores do we need?there building another one of cedar springs and Oaklawn(another great site,that had alot of potential)

[jsoto3]

I think the City needs to establish developent/urban design guidelines for the central city that maximize the realization of potential and utilization of existing and new infrastructure (density, setbacks, F.A.R.*, character, etc.). Tie awards of TIF funds and tax abatements to the satisfactory fullfillment of guidelines as incentive. Maybe even institute development impact fees for noncompliance with the guidelines as disincentive. Something along these lines is beginning to be done in foward-looking suburban municipalities around the country.

*F.A.R. = Floor Count (storeys) to Area (of site) Ratio
Ex: FAR = 4:1 means that you can cover:
>100% of site with 4 floors of construction;
>50% of site with 8 floors ";
>25% of site with 16 floors ";
etc.

Good link explaining relationship between density and FAR (http://www.ci.boulder.co.us/buildingservices/jobs_to_pop/documents/density_floorarearatio.pdf)

[Kelley USA]

I must say that's an excellent idea!!!

[Columbus Civil]

214, it was reported in the DMN.

[psukhu]

You guys should think more positive!

After the land if filled up, developers will have no choice but to build vertical.

We can't expect high rise projects when there is so much vacant land. High rises cost more to build per sq ft and therefore need to be able to fetch a higher rental price.

As less vacant land becomes available, the price per sq ft goes up for the area. It will become more financially feasible to build high rises.

As long as ‘Intown’ remains hot, we should see some great stuff in a few years.

In other words, I think we have to suffer through seeing some great lots go to these single floor developments until land values reach a certain level. I think we should hit that level in a few years.

[214]

i hope your right psukhu,i hope it only takes a couple of years

[Kelley USA]

that's an excellent point...

[dallastophoenix]

the main problem that i have is: why can't these walgreens and cvs stores be incorporated into the 1st floors of high rise apartment buildings... it's done in dc and other cities... why not here?

btw, have you ever seen the packed parking lot and long lines in the walgreens on mckinney (across from albertsons)? that's why we're seeing so many new drugstores being built near dtd.

[psukhu]

The land is so expensive in DC that a high rise must be built to get a good return on the development.

Land in Uptown is cheap relative to DC. A single floor development in Uptown gets the developer the minimum return they are looking for.

It shouldn't be like this by 2005. Land in uptown is cheap right now, plus interest rates are low...

[jsoto3]

But by 2005 all of the remaining vacant lots will be filled with cheap, single storey development which will take years to be turned over, discounting economic downturns. By then developers will look to other cheaper parts of town to do new urban development; Uptown will plateau and perhaps even decline.

[dallastophoenix]

i kind of agree. as the available land in uptown dwindles, we'll be stuck w/ single-story buildings that will demand even higher sales prices for future investors (if they want to tear down and build highrises). i suppose that's the normal cycle though...

[psukhu]

Good point jsoto.

But cities like New York have no problem tearing down anything to building something taller. Hopefully the area will continue to stay hot and become dense like Boston or Manhattan.

Any lot in Uptown should be able to sustain something like the West Village. The city should at least create some kind of standard along the lines of State-Thomas or WV.

[jsoto3]

That's exactly what I am upset about! The market in Uptown can sustain at the very least 4 storeys of residential on every remaining vacant lot; insert retail at base as necessary. As I said above, such minimum standards (and means of implementing them) can and should be imposed immediately. If a developer doesn't want to do this minimum he has no business in Uptown/Downtown (and some other nearby neighborhoods).

[tamtagon]

In addition to the abundant vacant lots uptown, there are plenty of aging apartment complex uptown ready for demolition.

Not everyone wants to live in a building with retail on the first floor, but it really is discouraging that such a good corner location be reduces to a single vendor and its parking lot. On the other hand, the Katy Trail benefits from the conveniences of a drugstore.

[jsoto3]

I just looked up the 'Hole on Cole' property on the
Dallas Central Appraisal District Website (http://www.dcad.org). CVS is paying a pretty penny (http://www.dallascad.org/AcctDetailCom.aspx?ID=000973000103A0000) to locate there! Speaking of older apartments being torn down, has anyone else noticed that the little one on Maple, just east of the Crescent has been?

[barrycb]

Yea, I noticed that too. The sight seems too small for any significant development, unless they purchase some of the Truluck's parking lot.

[crescentboi]

Any recent news on any of this?

[crescentboi]

Well when I went by there this afternoon I saw that they had wrapped an area around all of the major trees with that orange construction fencing and there was a large worktruck on the sight. Anyone notice this as well? There was a large fencing running the length of the property that said ....Enviromental. I wonder if this means that they are going to start preparing the sight for construction? Any ideas?

[psukhu]

I also saw that. Maybe they are planning on saving some of the large trees?

[Bardy]

Here's a horrible picture taken with my phone this morning on the corner of Cole and Vine (roughly). What you can't make out in this picture behind the orange/yellow construction fencing is a big mound of dirt and a several dirt moving vehicles.
Again, sorry the picture is so bad... I don't even know if it was worth posting. But at least you can make out the trees that would be nice to save :)

[rantanamo]

Went by and saw this site yesterday. Looked like they were putting up short construction fence around the property. That land made a good little temporary park I thought. I even played with some kids in the snow there last month.

[slfunk]

The orange fences are more then likely surrounding the rootball of the trees to protect them from damage and maintain there water table. This area is more then likely the debris field for the construction. So these trees will more then likely be kept until future development is that is Gables intentions.

[Bardy]

Well, they're not saving the trees. They've all been cut down and the land is starting to be cleared

[crescentboi]

Well not ALL the trees are cut down. Driving by today I noticed that the trees closest to Cedar Springs were still there, but the other end of the lot is being completely cleared and there are large mounds of dirt on the outer edges. If I remember correctly, aren't they starting the building on that end of the lot and then once that phase is complete then they will start building on the half closet to Cedar Springs?

[zigwamo]

That's right, crescentboi. The part of the site closest to cedar springs will be done later. I'm moving soon to Gables Mirabella next door. I hope the construction noise isn't too bad. But when I move I can start sending photos of the construction progess if people want.

[bloodandpopcorn]

So, does anyone know if it would be correct to assume that they're holding off on the Ceder Springs part of it to see how great a demand is for the other half, possibly with a mind to build the second half ten stories taller or something of that nature? Or is it simply, "let's start making money halfway through"?