Downtown Dallas Ballpark Planned

[NThomas]

Greenberg planning downtown Dallas ballpark
12:01 AM CDT on Thursday, April 1, 2010
By ARCH STANTON / Special Contributor to The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...e/vitindex.html (http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5364/nelsonov.jpg)

More changes are on the way for the Texas Rangers.

Chuck Greenberg, said Wednesday that his investors have inked an agreement to buy a 22-acre site on Riverfront Boulevard for a new ballpark. A second site, that will house a 1,200 capacity parking garage is still pending.

"Our number one request was for a retractable roof and retrofitting was out of the question." said Greenberg. "The [Arizona] Diamondback's Chase Field is what we're modeling this one after."

The state's other Major League Baseball club, the Houston Astros, play at Minute Maid Park, a retractable roof stadium.

Preliminary site plans show a ballpark located between the Union Pacific railroad right-of-way and the Santiago Calatrava designed Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge. A group of mixed-use buildings north of the bridge would include a Marriott brand hotel and ground level retail in two office buildings...

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/988/73678580.png

[chicago_transplant]

I hate you. Seriously. WTF

[quietthings]

Man. Something else for me to get excited about and then wait around for 2 or 3 years while the project dies.

[quietthings]

Hmm....I'm thinking I've been had. I can't access imageshack at work so I don't know what that picture is of.

[cowboyeagle05]

Hmm....I'm thinking I've been had. I can't access imageshack at work so I don't know what that picture is of.

Lets just put it this way the article provides plenty of detail on the future of this project

[dfwcre8tive]

http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dalla...22/daily07769.html

Ballpark Planned As Part of Trinity Development
Dallas Business Journal - by Darren Reighar Staff Writer

A 50,000-seat retractable roof baseball stadium is being proposed as a component of a new sports and entertainment district near downtown Dallas.

A group of investors, including Chuck Greenberg and Triumph Partners, released plans today for a mixed-use district along Riverfront Boulevard named "Conquest Plaza".

"We envision a 24-hour entertainment district anchored by a state-of-the-art ballpark and surrounding development. Dallas has never had a focus on its riverfront, and we're hoping to change that," said Greenberg, who presented to the City Council's Economic Development and Housing Committee.

Early site plans for Conquest Plaza show a covered stadium surrounded by a large parking structure and luxury hotel. A mixed-use development of office and residential space will fill adjacent blocks. The developers are negotiating with DART to include a light rail station adjacent to Union Pacific's freight line, but due to funding constraints the station may not be built until later phases of development.

Introducing a baseball stadium to the mix of riverside development could help to satisfy the city's desire for new life in the formerly industrial neighborhood. In 2008 the Dallas City Council voted to change the name of Industrial Boulevard to Riverfront Boulevard. And the Santiago Calatrava-designed Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge, adjacent to the proposed Conquest Plaza, is being built as part of an effort to lure more people to downtown Dallas. "The revived interest we're seeing along the Trinity reminds us that we must work hard to advance plans for the Trinity Parkway and river improvements," said Sharron Witherell, a consultant for the City of Dallas. "We need to make it convenient for area residents to visit downtown."

...

[RobertB]

Wow, the hype machine is in full gear!

Leppert Homers: Greenberg commits to "Conquest" on Riverside
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2010-04-01/news/would-be-owner-chuck-greenberg/

... "There are usually some unforeseen speed bumps along the way," Greenberg said in surprise when asked about a Dallas Business Journal (http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dalla...22/daily07769.html) story that revealed significant I's to be dotted and T's to be crossed before a deal could be finalized. A similar story appeared in today's Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...e/vitindex.html), suggesting some of Hicks' lenders would even attempt to halt the team's move to Dallas. "But I'm very confident there are no road blocks ahead," Greenberg responded.
I'm looking forward to Dallas County making money selling catch-a-homer seats on the top deck of the County Jail parking garage. The Rangers have been to the World Series since the '70s about as many times as the Cubs -- rooftop seating like Wrigley Field would add another Cub-like element to the atmosphere.

[jefffwd]

April Fools!!!!

[berryhill]

Any good hoax should probably begin with a little spell checking. It's Chuck GreenbErg.

[quietthings]

And it's Riverfront, not Riverside.

[NThomas]

And it's Riverfront, not Riverside.
It's still Industrial no matter what they call it.

[quietthings]

It's still Industrial no matter what they call it.

True. But for the sake of trying to pull a prank, they could at least double check the street name.

[RobertB]

It's still Industrial no matter what they call it.
When I told my son about the whole renaming and Tollway Park debacle, he gave the road a name -- and I've decided I'll use whenever referencing the Boulevard-Formerly-Known-As-Industrial: Riverbed Blvd. It's particularly fitting in light of recent CoE determinations.

[txRNGr]

Clicking on the link to the DMN article leads to this cute April Fools image. Why? Why??
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5364/nelsonov.jpg

[MarkL2023]

Any good hoax should probably begin with a little spell checking. It's Chuck GreenbErg.

absolutely, but the first link has all kinds of grammatical errors and it still fooled quite a few people

[Mr Carter]

You guys are cold blooded!

[TheMapman]

You know, sometimes a joke has a little truth behind it......hmm...

[AeroD]

There is something to be said about filling up a stadium when the lows do not dip below 80 in the summer. You and 40,000 fans guzzling cheap beer under bright artificial lights, a random cricket lands on your hot dog, it's barely the bottom of the 3rd, and you are sweating through your khaki shorts, at which point you realize how boring baseball is.

[citizen]

Clicking on the link to the DMN article leads to this cute April Fools image. Why? Why??
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5364/nelsonov.jpg


Is this new stadium going to have bike racks so I can ride my bike to it or are the bike plans for Dallas a joke too?

Also I was wondering if it would have a great view of the TOLL ROAD so that we could watch that during the 7th inning stretch?

[kozzy]

Yeah it will be situated next to Caesar Chavez Park and none of the highways will be in view because they will all be rebuilt below-grade. You might however spot the 747 Southwest Airlines planes coming in from their non-stop flights from Shanghai and Mumbai as they will be on landing approach to Dallas Love Field International Airport. You will also probably get a great view of the 200-story Trump tower in Downtown.

[AeroD]

I know this was the joke thread, but here's to what could have been...

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/ksherrington/stories/050610dnsposherrington.3b597fd.html


Tom Hicks once told me that, if he'd owned the Rangers in 1990, he'd have finagled a way to get a downtown stadium. Had that been so, Rangers fans in Dallas and Collin County might remember him a little more fondly.

Hicks' motivation was not entirely altruistic. He knew that most of the Rangers' season ticket base was east of the Trinity and north of downtown. Given their druthers, they'd rather not get home from Arlington at midnight on a school night. Or any other night, for that matter.

Servicing the baseball needs of those fans is what prompted Hicks to build a minor league park in Frisco and stock it with his Double A team. Other than finally committing to his farm system, it might have been his best decision.

[RobertB]

It's awfully easy to say what you *would* have done.

Just a couple of nights ago, the Rangers play-by-play team was discussing the futility of playing what-if with baseball situations. If the runner hadn't gotten thrown out at second, then the next batter's double would have scored him -- except that the pitcher pitches differently with a man on base, and the fielders are positioned differently, and any number of things are different that make it impossible to just roll back the tape and try again with a man at second.

Heck, even Jerry Jones claims he'd have built in Dallas if things were "different". Sometimes, hindsight is more like 20/200.

[tamtagon]

The Rangers need a crosstown rival to provide the kick-in-the-pants that'll get'em deep into the play-offs. The Convention Center needs to plan the next facilities expansion/evolution. Dallas needs an extremely high capacity event facility where Reunion Arena used to be. Woodbine needs a seamless activities-laden pedestrian connection to the Convention Center and precipitating event to build up a big collection of retail, entertainment and dining outlets around Reunion Hotel & Tower.

MLB, the next owner(s) of the Rangers and Dallas' Hunt Family share a common interest to see that Dallas receives a National League expansion team.

That's no joke.

The next generation of retractile-roof baseball stadium has capacity of up to ~60,000 for a baseball game and up to ~90,000 (???) for other events.

[UrbanHope]

The Rangers need a crosstown rival to provide the kick-in-the-pants that'll get'em deep into the play-offs. The Convention Center needs to plan the next facilities expansion/evolution. Dallas needs an extremely high capacity event facility where Reunion Arena used to be. Woodbine needs a seamless activities-laden pedestrian connection to the Convention Center and precipitating event to build up a big collection of retail, entertainment and dining outlets around Reunion Hotel & Tower.

MLB, the next owner(s) of the Rangers and Dallas' Hunt Family share a common interest to see that Dallas receives a National League expansion team.

That's no joke.

The next generation of retractile-roof baseball stadium has capacity of up to ~60,000 for a baseball game and up to ~90,000 (???) for other events.

I agree.

[AeroD]

It's awfully easy to say what you *would* have done.

Just a couple of nights ago, the Rangers play-by-play team was discussing the futility of playing what-if with baseball situations. If the runner hadn't gotten thrown out at second, then the next batter's double would have scored him -- except that the pitcher pitches differently with a man on base, and the fielders are positioned differently, and any number of things are different that make it impossible to just roll back the tape and try again with a man at second.

Heck, even Jerry Jones claims he'd have built in Dallas if things were "different". Sometimes, hindsight is more like 20/200.

But you are comparing apples and oranges. The Cowboys probably have at most 8 home games and they are most likely played on a Sunday. How many Rangers' home games are there? About 80 and many of them are played during the week after work. Driving from Plano to Arlington on Wednesday in rush hour traffic ain't no picnic, and neither is the long drive back home. So say what you will about Hicks, but had he been the "decider" things would have probably been different.

[sdub]

MLB, the next owner(s) of the Rangers and Dallas' Hunt Family share a common interest to see that Dallas receives a National League expansion team.

Doesn't this become a catch-22 situation? You can't justify an expansion team when the current one underperforms and you can't get the current to perform without a more competitive market? I think a divisional rival would be even better, maybe in San Antonio.

[gchrisbailey]

The Rangers need a crosstown rival to provide the kick-in-the-pants that'll get'em deep into the play-offs. The Convention Center needs to plan the next facilities expansion/evolution. Dallas needs an extremely high capacity event facility where Reunion Arena used to be. Woodbine needs a seamless activities-laden pedestrian connection to the Convention Center and precipitating event to build up a big collection of retail, entertainment and dining outlets around Reunion Hotel & Tower.

MLB, the next owner(s) of the Rangers and Dallas' Hunt Family share a common interest to see that Dallas receives a National League expansion team.

That's no joke.

The next generation of retractile-roof baseball stadium has capacity of up to ~60,000 for a baseball game and up to ~90,000 (???) for other events.

Completely agree...nothing would be more perfect than a baseball stadium (with a retractable roof, mind you) where Reunion once stood with home plate looking toward the downtown skyline...pretty cool...

[mjblazin]

How do you know where a more central location would be without knowing where fans work? Are they bringing their children? How much has the market grown from Fort Worth and suburbs north and south of DFW?

A downtown Dallas location is not central to any significant group of customers that afford to spend $40-50 per person per game. Our downtown is the extreme SE corner of that group. If being nearby to your clients was key, you'd build it where Grapevine Mall is.

Downtown does not need any more gigantic expensive entertainment edifices. We need residents, a number that will grow incrementally over time based on the natural advantages that appeal to a limited subset of a gigantic market. Stop spending the money we need for infrastructure support to entice/retain those residents on these gaudy palaces that don't solve our problems.

[AeroD]

How do you know where a more central location would be without knowing where fans work? Are they bringing their children? How much has the market grown from Fort Worth and suburbs north and south of DFW?

Answer: "Hicks' motivation was not entirely altruistic. He knew that most of the Rangers' season ticket base was east of the Trinity and north of downtown. Given their druthers, they'd rather not get home from Arlington at midnight on a school night. Or any other night, for that matter."

[mjblazin]

That just says Arlington was not ideal on that measure 2 decades ago. Is it still true? What are the 2010 demographics for the Rangers? How much of a difference in attendance would it have made to be downtown? Would getting decent pitching made a bigger impact? I don't think the evidence is clear at all, at least not clear enough for the city to spend 100's of millions to test it.

[tamtagon]

How do you know where a more central location would be without knowing where fans work? ... A downtown Dallas location is not central to any significant group of customers ....

Downtown Dallas is the ideal location in North Texas for a gigantic entertainment edifice. Both the highway and railway systems converge in downtown.

[tamtagon]

Doesn't this become a catch-22 situation? You can't justify an expansion team when the current one underperforms and you can't get the current to perform without a more competitive market? I think a divisional rival would be even better, maybe in San Antonio.

The Rangers need an owner - operator. Same thing with the Stars... Hicks Sports Group was not motivated to win titles, it was motivated to make money. But, ya, other than the interest from the anticipated millions in population growth, it would be hard to show the Dallas versus Fort Worth/Arlington rivalry would bring 30,000+ fans to each game....

National League simply because I think it would be cool to one day have a North Texas World Series.... but MLB probably wouldn't go for the lower TV revenue a series like that would bring.

[DallasMan]

That just says Arlington was not ideal on that measure 2 decades ago. Is it still true?

True that. Two decades ago, in 1990, no one was even willing to think about downtown as a positive place. I mean, in 1990, Uptown wasn't even the Uptown we know today. Arlington seemed to be the place for entertainment. Ha.

[tamtagon]

True that. Two decades ago, in 1990, no one was even willing to think about downtown as a positive place. I mean, in 1990, Uptown wasn't even the Uptown we know today. Arlington seemed to be the place for entertainment. Ha.

The potential in Arlington to up the ante as a place for entertainment has never been as promising. The big trick is identifying 1) solid common interests among stadium & amusement park patrons, 2) how much time stadium & amusement park patrons are willing to spend in Arlington before and/or after an event, and 3) a way to negotiate a seamless patron circulation between the stadiums & amusement park and the GloryPark mixed use development.

Unlike the event/occasion destinations in Arlington which are very successfully constructed as all inclusive facilities to capture all consumer spending from within their respective boundaries, the fantasy stadium in downtown Dallas would take the positive PR "retro" approach and rein in the retail/entertainment space within stadium boundaries to supply food, drink and souvenirs as accompaniment to the event without attempt to keep patrons spending money inside the stadium.

Pedestrian 'strip-malls' & parklike promenades would encapsulate the stadium and connect to the Convention Center & Hotel, Reunion Tower/Hotel & Union Station and the trinity River Park Overlook. All the bells and whistles are positioned outside the stadium and have two "front doors" one that appeals to event patrons before and after an event - but not during an event - and one that appeals to the general public.

[sdub]

...the fantasy stadium in downtown Dallas would take the positive PR "retro" approach and rein in the retail/entertainment space within stadium boundaries to supply food, drink and souvenirs as accompaniment to the event without attempt to keep patrons spending money inside the stadium.

This is why public money would have to be involved. Wouldn't the city's investment basically be to pay the developer not to build those concessions where they can capture 100% of the revenue, letting it spill out into surrounding areas?

[tamtagon]

This is why public money would have to be involved. Wouldn't the city's investment basically be to pay the developer not to build those concessions where they can capture 100% of the revenue, letting it spill out into surrounding areas?

For developer and potential stadium partner, Hyatt Regency & Reunion Tower owner Woodbine (aka The Hunt Family) the pre/post event activity revenue is exponentially greater should the action take place on a promenade from the old Reunion Arena site and Union Station; the base of Reunion Tower would be a fantastic place to hang out after a game. This functionally vacant real estate would now become usable whenever the weather is nice, and not just before and after an event at the new stadium.

Routing between the Convention Center/Hotel to the stadium is a pedestrian strip mall promenade dealio heavy on Texas Kitsch for tourists and convention/trade show souvenir shoppers and the like. The public investment in the enclosed-when-wanted Stadium makes the structure an extension of the Convention Center. Hotel Street under Houston/Jefferson Viaducts becomes a great big "express lane" concourse connecting the stadium, parking structure and Convention Center. Built from the Convention Center roof-top garden, bridging Houston/Jefferson and opening to the Stadium's upper deck & club level the tourist strip mall and park promenade gives great views of the city with a pleasantly shaded meandering path between stadium and convention center/hotel.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Downtown Dallas is the ideal location in North Texas for a gigantic entertainment edifice. Both the highway and railway systems converge in downtown.Except that most people who live north of 635 wouldn't visit downtown even if you gave them a front row pass to the second coming.

[tamtagon]

Except that most people who live north of 635 wouldn't visit downtown even if you gave them a front row pass to the second coming.

just the ones who already work or do business there, right?

[NThomas]

Which is why the Dr. Pepper Ballpark makes sense. If anyone has gone recently, you know that place fills up a lot.