Mandarin Oriental Dallas

[Kelley USA]

I wanted to start a new thread on this... I know that Mandarin was originally proposed as part of Victory Tower. This probably means nothing, but I found on BOKA Powell plans for another Mandarin Dallas. The interesting thing is that it still shows as being in Victory Park, but located on another site within Victory. You can see on the map it's for Block C. No office space is attached on this- it's solely hotel and condos. Again, this is probably old and will never fan out- but I thought it was worth sharing here...

http://www.bokapowell.com/#/hospitality/11/

[AeroD]

Development porn is always great. Even if Mjblazin's colleagues will not finance projects like this anytime soon.

[Kelley USA]

I will say that I saw this about a month ago and never posted it... At the time on BOKA they only had the initial photo showing. I decided to post it now because they have since added shots 2-7 in the past month.

[MarkL2023]

Again, this is probably old and will never fan out


lol

[NThomas]

:drool: I hope this design gets built even though it looks plucked of the Las Vegas strip. Check out how much parking will be incorporated into Two Victory Park north till the DART ROW. Wow. Also, check out the site plan and how the valet parking has been reworked compared to the original plans for Victory Tower.

[JohnMcKee]

Hillwood surrendered all developed property as terms of their default on the loans while retaining undeveloped property. I imagine the parking garage on the former Mandarin Oriental site made it count as developed property no longer within the control of Hillwood.

Hillwood now needs some plans to fish for cash to complete the part of the project that they still own so it really don't surprise me that they have drawn up some new plans for a plot that they still own from an established respected brand that they already have a relationship with to do it with.

[cowboyeagle05]

I think its interesting that this "newer" design is located in a different spot that Victory Tower.

So was this original location for the Mandarin Oriental before Hillwood convinced them to incorporate into Victory Tower or was it a last ditch to build the Mandarin Oriental separate of "two big two fail" Victory Tower project.

[gshelton91]

This is cool but I really think some mid-rise apartments with some limited retail is what is needed flanking a nice wide pedestrian entrance connecting the DART line with AAC. And concentrate on finishing the build out of the land along the DART Line... so that Victory feels more enclosed.

I also think that a streetcar spur connecting Victory to McKinny Ave line or to Hilton Anatole would be a good idea.

[Double Wide]

its a nice design but does Dallas need it???? No. Not yet. Mandarin should look into renovating a pre existing Down Town building.

[NThomas]

its a nice design but does Dallas need it???? No. Not yet. Mandarin should look into renovating a pre existing Down Town building.
Other than Elm Place, which building, inside the DT loop, would you suggest they renovate?

[dfwcre8tive]

Other than Elm Place, which building, inside the DT loop, would you suggest they renovate?

The Tower Petroleum Building would make a classy hotel conversion.

[NThomas]

The Tower Petroleum Building would make a classy hotel conversion.
I think it'll end up as a hotel, just not a Mandarin Oriental Hotel. According to this Dallas City Hall presentation (http://www.dallascityhall.com/council_briefings/briefings0407/20070418_TowerPetrolium.pdf), the Michael Graves attached condo/hotel proposal had plans for 145 rooms for the Tower Petroleum Building. The only Mandarin Oriental that comes close to that many rooms is in Boston.

Mandarin Oriental, Boston - 148
Mandarin Oriental, Las Vegas - 392
Mandarin Oriental, Miami - 326
Mandarin Oriental, New York City - 202
Mandarin Oriental, San Francisco - 154
Mandarin Oriental, Washington DC - 347

But in the United States, every Mandarin Oriental has been all new construction.

Maybe Hyatt's Anazaz brand (http://hyattdevelopment.com/brands/andaz/index.html), or Starwood's Le Méridien (http://development.starwoodhotels.com/brands/le_meridien) would be a better fit for the Tower Petroleum Building.

[Tucy]

I think it'll end up as a hotel, just not a Mandarin Oriental Hotel. According to this Dallas City Hall presentation (http://www.dallascityhall.com/council_briefings/briefings0407/20070418_TowerPetrolium.pdf), the Michael Graves attached condo/hotel proposal had plans for 145 rooms for the Tower Petroleum Building. The only Mandarin Oriental that comes close to that many rooms is in Boston.

Mandarin Oriental, Boston - 148
Mandarin Oriental, Las Vegas - 392
Mandarin Oriental, Miami - 326
Mandarin Oriental, New York City - 202
Mandarin Oriental, San Francisco - 154
Mandarin Oriental, Washington DC - 347

But in the United States, every Mandarin Oriental has been all new construction.

Maybe Hyatt's Anazaz brand (http://hyattdevelopment.com/brands/andaz/index.html), or Starwood's Le Méridien (http://development.starwoodhotels.com/brands/le_meridien) would be a better fit for the Tower Petroleum Building.

The Victory Tower Mandarin was only slated to have 120 hotel rooms

[ChampionDallas]

I hope that Mandarin will build the tower on BOKA Powell's website with "affordable" condominiums (from the 150's). This will help increase life in VP. I wonder if there is any news for the Mandarin or Victory tower. :confused:

[Tucy]

I hope that Mandarin will build the tower on BOKA Powell's website with "affordable" condominiums (from the 150's). This will help increase life in VP. I wonder if there is any news for the Mandarin or Victory tower. :confused:

Condos affiliated with a Mandarin hotel will not be in the "affordable" category.

[ParkCitiesTexas]

i hope that mandarin will build the tower on boka powell's website with "affordable" condominiums (from the 150's). This will help increase life in vp. I wonder if there is any news for the mandarin or victory tower. :confused:


lol

[NThomas]

I hope that Mandarin will build the tower on BOKA Powell's website with "affordable" condominiums (from the 150's). This will help increase life in VP. I wonder if there is any news for the Mandarin or Victory tower. :confused:
Maybe if La Quinta had a condo/hotel project...

Seriously though, check out some of the prices at The Terrace (2323 Houston Street). There're two 1/1 units priced ~150k on the market, both right under 1000 sqft. The demand for condos that "neighborhood" just isn't there, even though those same units were originally sold for nearly double. Also, Victory Park will have to construct high-rises similar to The House and Cirque to meet the density needed for the +4,000 units Hillwood proposed at the project's build out. The House was built at a cost of $425 sqft, so for a new construction condo at 150k, someone would have to subsidize the 300k difference.

[ChampionDallas]

What you all said is true. I should have said "300's", and even that may be a lower price point than Mandarin Oriental wants to offer.

[VictoryPark1]

But that unit @ 150 at 2323 N Houston is a short sale with multiple offers that is sitting as active contingent until the bank decides how much to let it go for. So it is not as bad as it seems. Alot of units have sold in the building recently. A 1 bedroom at 175,000 and another 165,000. and A 2 bed recently for 260,000. While these are much less than the original prices things have been selling well. The building recently completed a 750,000 renovation of the lobby an hallways. In my opinion the lobby is nicer than the W. The place is really in great condition. There were alot of Foreclosures in the building the last few years and they have almost all been through the system and resold now. Times are changing for the building. It has a very large population of full time residents and a great staff.


The fact that anything in that Building sells fast at that price shows that if a low priced building went in it would go fast. One forclosure sold 2 months ago in 8 days. These foreclosures are not investors either. They have restrictions that owner occupied owners can only purchase them.

[xen0blue]

I'm pretty sure this project is dead. Thread should be closed.

[NThomas]

The fact that anything in that Building sells fast at that price shows that if a low priced building went in it would go fast. One forclosure sold 2 months ago in 8 days. These foreclosures are not investors either. They have restrictions that owner occupied owners can only purchase them.
I'm guessing that's a new restriction for The Terrace? One of the first thing I learned about investing in rental houses was that mortgage companies are willing to give the buyer a MUCH better interest rate if they plan on occupying the property than simply leasing or flipping it. Is there a stipulation how long the owners must reside in the unit before selling for these new buyers?

[VictoryPark1]

I'm guessing that's a new restriction for The Terrace? One of the first thing I learned about investing in rental houses was that mortgage companies are willing to give the buyer a MUCH better interest rate if they plan on occupying the property than simply leasing or flipping it. Is there a stipulation how long the owners must reside in the unit before selling for these new buyers?

These restrictions are just for bank owned units. Of you own your unit you can do what you want. It is usually 1 year. All the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sales in the building have gone this way. They are sold through the homesteps and homepath programs.