Harwood District: The Azure (375 FT. / 31 ST.)

[rantanamo]

There are suburban style towers all over the metroplex. protruding garages with only the purpose of parking, no attempt at mixing uses, and having "grounds" around the tower that are simply there to seperate the tower from the street.

[Tnekster]

I have seen condo towers in other cities without the addition of mixed use development but I don't think anybody considers them suburban towers just because they are not mixed use.

[msutton]

exactly... i'd venture that at least half, probably more, of the buildings on Manhattan are not mixed use. Many important urban buildings/complexes have "grounds" around them. Rockafeller center has quite a bit of grounds, and the Seagram building has a big, empty set-back and (i believe, I don't get up there that often) no ground floor retail or anything of the sort. Are these suburban buildings?

[rantanamo]

favor..............Drive up to Park Central, Turtle Creek, Las Colinas or the North Tollway and tell me exactly what is urban about those towers. Look over the plans of the Ritz-Carlton. Azure can get a pass because it actually will use that whole block, but it could still be built anywhere and function totally fine.

Its not just about mixed-use. Its about the way the buildings interact with their surroundings.

Example of Fountain Place vs Plaza of the Americas:

Twist it and turn it however you want to, Plaza of the Americas is made to be driven too. Its full of big uncompromising setbacks and garages. Neither of which is made for the pedestrian or interaction with the street. You could easily build it along the North Tollway with a lot around it.

Fountain Place, on the other hand still has a lot of setback on the north side of the building. Difference is, it was built for the pedestrian. The entrances are built for the pedestrian. It would be at home at any place with pedestrians.

Just because a tower is a tower does not mean its an urban tower.

[Tnekster]

Its not just about mixed-use. Its about the way the buildings interact with their surroundings.

Example of Fountain Place vs Plaza of the Americas:

Twist it and turn it however you want to, Plaza of the Americas is made to be driven too. Its full of big uncompromising setbacks and garages. Neither of which is made for the pedestrian or interaction with the street. You could easily build it along the North Tollway with a lot around it.

Fountain Place, on the other hand still has a lot of setback on the north side of the building. Difference is, it was built for the pedestrian. The entrances are built for the pedestrian. It would be at home at any place with pedestrians.



Interesting example since the Plaza is mixed use and Fountain Place is not and either one can easily be walked to since they are both on major downtown streets with the more suburban style tower, as you claim, being right next to a Dart station.

[dallasag00]

zzz....nothing much going on is there

[rantanamo]

Interesting example since the Plaza is mixed use and Fountain Place is not and either one can easily be walked to since they are both on major downtown streets with the more suburban style tower, as you claim, being right next to a Dart station.

You're simply not following. Fountain Place is all about the pedestrian. Its location as being isolated has nothing to do with what it was planned for. That's not Fountain Place's fault that other planned buildings that would have provided connectivity were not built(including its own twin). It is simply a pedestrian building. Its made to interact with pedestrians. Plaza of the Americas is not. and could easily be put in Park Central or Las Colinas. Even with the large outdoor plazas of Chase and Trammell-Crow, both are built to interact with walkers and not cars. That's what I'm saying about International Centre vs Victory or Cityplace West. The two latter projects are being built with people and the street environment in mind. Car space is built around this. The garages don't protrude from the profile as their own structures. They are built within the footprints or under. I can give Azure or St. Anne's the benefit of the doubt of being urban, but the other International Centre entries; no.

[Tnekster]

You're simply not following. Fountain Place is all about the pedestrian. Its location as being isolated has nothing to do with what it was planned for. That's not Fountain Place's fault that other planned buildings that would have provided connectivity were not built(including its own twin). It is simply a pedestrian building. Its made to interact with pedestrians. Plaza of the Americas is not. and could easily be put in Park Central or Las Colinas. Even with the large outdoor plazas of Chase and Trammell-Crow, both are built to interact with walkers and not cars. That's what I'm saying about International Centre vs Victory or Cityplace West. The two latter projects are being built with people and the street environment in mind. Car space is built around this. The garages don't protrude from the profile as their own structures. They are built within the footprints or under. I can give Azure or St. Anne's the benefit of the doubt of being urban, but the other International Centre entries; no.

Thank you very much but I am following you I just don't agree. The Plaza was not made to interact with Pedestrians? Is that why the hotel, ice rink, retail and restaurant space are in there? I remember back in the early 90's it was one of the few locations downtown that had people milling around on the weekends when everything else was closed. When I think of suburban type developments I think of sprawling campus like environments with acres upon acres of open space surrounding the equivalent of a 70 story tower laid out over additionall acres to gobble up as much land as possible. I think of EDS, JCP, Frito-Lay, Fina and Hall office park not the Plaza of the Americas. Those are examples of pedestrian unfriendly developments. One would never walk from JCP to EDS and neither one has a hotel, retail and restaurant space attached to the development.

[barrycb]

He is absolutely right. Try walking down Harwood, between the International Center buildings, or down the street behind Plaza of the Americas. It's about the most uninviting walk imaginable...like no one was ever meant to walk there. Urban is all about how the buildings interact with the pedestrian at ground level. Set backs are ok, if they beacon people to explore them (example, Chase Tower). Above ground parking garages are ok, if they interact with the sidewalk as to not alienate the pedestrian (example, The House).

[tamtagon]

^The impression I get from the Harwood folks is that each addition to their 10 blocks of Uptown will improve overall pedestrian connectivity within the neighborhood. It's just an impression and could be wrong; but I'm optomistic that Harwood will finish the developments with a very most cosmopolitian pedestrian-friendly flow. Rantanamo has almost alway right about this kinda stuff though, so I think there's plenty of reason to worry.

[WestTexan]

^I think you are correct. As part of the remodel of the Rolex Building, Harwood Int. just made the building signifcantly more pedestrian friendly with a new entrance opens up on to the sidewalk.

[rantanamo]

^That's a move in the right direction then.

[OneDallas]

Harwood has never embraced the retail component of a pedestrian experience. Long distances of dead facade is what makes the downtown experience so difficult now in tying things together. They also have fought all efforts to improve the sidewalk connections through their parcels from uptown to Victory. As for Rolex, they modified the entrace because the oak trees got so big that they obscured the facade and were breaking up the flatwork. I would argue that Harwood has made a wonderful open space but its designed to be isolated from the street. At international center, there are bridges OVER the street to the park. I think there is reason to be concerned in how these sites interact with the neighbrhood.

[tamtagon]

By minimizing the amount of retail space in Harwood's contiguous uptown developments, retail/dining/entertainment surrounding the Harwood property will be enhanced. If every street in uptown becomes lined with retail, it would be very difficult for any venture to find retail success, and would alienate high-rise home buyers who prefer a quiter residential sidestreet.

The pedestrian experience will be the critical design element. A pleasant 5-10 walk flanked by small green lawns, flower beds, manicured hedges and an overall park setting on the way to a shop, gallery, restaurant, bar or upscale loitering along McKinney, Cedar Springs or Maple will secure the neighborhood feel.

Harwood seems devoted to keep the flowers blooming and hedges shaped very nice - another developer might cut down the trees "interfering" with the Rolex bldg.

I'm inclined to think Harwood has the corporate culture to remain focused on building up and into the immediate neighborhood rather than creating a all-encompassing, self-sufficient micro-city; Harwood seems likely to be the developer very happily maintaining single-use residential and/or office buildings which feed existing nearby retail developments with customers.

[rantanamo]

there needs to be some retail and some emphasis on the pedestrian vs the automobile, or its just suburban.

[WestTexan]

Perhaps Harwood will shift to more pedestrian oriented developments now that neighborhood has become more developed. Don't forget, when the International Center was conceived, no one-including many of its residents, felt safe walking around the neighborhood.

The International Center was a pioneering project in the development of Uptown. Gabriel Barbier-Mueller is a very savvy and cosmopolitan developer and I would guess he would want to shape the development in to something that fits well with current trends.

[FoUTASportscaster]

there needs to be some retail and some emphasis on the pedestrian vs the automobile, or its just suburban.


Non-mixed-use doesn't mean suburban. And just based on the fact that the immediate surrounding area is well-manacured greenery, and not surface parking tells me that it isn't suburban at all. If everything was mixed-use, neighborhoods and areas like McKinney Ave. would have less of an effect than they do now.

[Tnekster]

Non-mixed-use doesn't mean suburban. And just based on the fact that the immediate surrounding area is well-manacured greenery, and not surface parking tells me that it isn't suburban at all. If everything was mixed-use, neighborhoods and areas like McKinney Ave. would have less of an effect than they do now.

Well put.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Thank you.

[rantanamo]

Don't think you've read my posts. I never said that mixed-use = urban. I also explain urban.


If I'm to basically explain urban, let's compare International Centre to Cityplace West and their relative functionality without a car. I'm not saying getting to each area without a car. Cityplace obviously has an advantage there. I'm saying, get dropped off at each from a bus. Walk around. How does the human being interact with each environment. I'm talking about distances, shade, sidewalk size, ease of accessing the buildings themselves. International Centre is suburban scape squeezed together to have a sort of urban look. It does not, however function for the human at street level.

Its not like I hate International Centre or want to bash it. Its simply not urban in the scaled and pedestrian sense. Its like lining up the biuldings in Park Central along Coit. Doesn't make it urban because they are close together. Preston Center might be the best comparison. Would anyone argue that the high-rise area of Preston Center is urban? I certainly wouldn't.

[drumguy8800]

If a building is simply residential, its service is simply to house commuters. People go out the building in the morning, and enter it in the evening.

If the building has more to it, then it has the potential to be busy during the day and into the night, and people are always going in and coming out.

So, in essence, and I think this is what rantanamo meant, high-rise buildings with only a single "point" act just like the subdivisions/strip malls/office parks in the suburbs, just packed into a smaller land area. The Azure is just like Turtle Creek -- very unurban.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Highly disagree there. I've lived in several apartment complexes in my life and those things are busy at all hours of the day, sometimes annoingly so. I, although have never lived in one, would assume that a high-rise would be similar. That doesn't make it unurban.

I have walked from Cityplace to my place of work near the intersection of Maple and Oak Lawn through Turtle Creek. The walk was a lot easier because it was pleasing to the eye. Walking by a true "suburban" high-rise, which I hate to use that term because I think it is stupid, wouldn't bring that effect to mind and lengthen the walk because it is so unappealing to the eye.

[msutton]

plenty of new york apartment and office buildings have no ground floor retail. They're still urban buildings. On the upper east side, you can walk for blocks on crtain stretches without any retail. However those areas are no less urban than midtown.

[Tnekster]

Walking by a true "suburban" high-rise, which I hate to use that term because I think it is stupid

ditto

[warlock55]

I think the key is not that every building have every use included within its walls, but that the neighborhood has those uses. An all-residential building can still be busy all times of the day if there are places to work, shop, and amuse the residents within walking distance of the building.The building does have to be designed to encourage residents to get out and walk though, by providing easy access to the sidewalks and doing what it can to make the trip around the building interesting and safe.

[rjlevins]

I live in a building that is entirely residential, but is very pedestrian friendly. It has units that open up right on the street. The topography is flat, sidewalk is wide, parallel parking to provide a barrier from a busy street. The garage opens up onto a lower traffic street with the gates set back to provide a better view for passing pedestrians. Within a block, I have restaurants, banks, clubs, bars, stores, a post office, city hall, a little farther down the road...a grocery store. I wish I had a coffee house on the ground floor, but I have atleast 3 within an easy walk (soon to be 2 more). I only say this because mixed-use is much more than just including a mix of uses within the same building. It's about making an area that can be sufficient for most/all daily needs.

Azure, from what I have seen, will compliment the pedestrian environment of the area. It's being set in an area that is urban. The setting is what makes something "urban". If you stuck this building in Addison or even Los Colinas, I could see an argument for this building lacking aspects of proper urban design, but this area is booming with retail and office space. Not every building can have retail, nor do we want it to. Otherwise, we'll just have a bunch of empty stores. Clearly, Dallas does not need much more office space.

[BigD5349]

Azure, from what I have seen, will compliment the pedestrian environment of the area.

Yes, but I offer this advice to the future pedestrians walking alongside the Azure:

"Don't stray onto McKinnon Street! Look out! Look out!"

*Splat*

[jsoto3]

I live in a building that is entirely residential, but is very pedestrian friendly. It has units that open up right on the street. The topography is flat, sidewalk is wide, parallel parking to provide a barrier from a busy street. The garage opens up onto a lower traffic street with the gates set back to provide a better view for passing pedestrians. Within a block, I have restaurants, banks, clubs, bars, stores, a post office, city hall, a little farther down the road...a grocery store. I wish I had a coffee house on the ground floor, but I have atleast 3 within an easy walk (soon to be 2 more). I only say this because mixed-use is much more than just including a mix of uses within the same building. It's about making an area that can be sufficient for most/all daily needs.
Do you live in the AMLI on Second Street? If so, what are the rents there?

[jsoto3]

photos from last week:

http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/2217/picture0277em.th.jpg (http://img304.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0277em.jpg) http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/2092/picture0269wa.th.jpg (http://img304.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0269wa.jpg)

[gc]

Nice shots jorge. Do you have any information on the project schedule here (besides what is published)? Just curious.

[Tnekster]

Almost out of the ground.

[msutton]

exciting...

[crocodile_hunt_er]

is this thing sold out? or close? have prices risen much?

[1999McKinneyAve]

Rumour Going Around That They Are Stopping Construction At Azure And Returning Buyers Down Payment. The Reason Is Escalating Construction Costs. Anyone Heard This?????

[slfunk]

Now that would be just plain stupid. Where did this "rumor" come from?

[1999McKinneyAve]

Tell that to Crescent Realty. They have tabled Canyon Ranch for same reason

[slfunk]

Tell that to Crescent Realty. They have tabled Canyon Ranch for same reason

But Canyon Ranch has not started. The stupid part comes from them renting a crane, excavating the land, spending money on the engineering, EPA, architectural services, building 4 levels of garage

- going through all the fighting they did to get the building insured so they could start construction

- the amount of marketing and special events

- selling this as a prototype product to investors in others parts of the world where they have land (Harwood International)

This is a big project for Harwood, I doubt there is truth to this rumor, but only bored people looking to stir things up. Kinda like someone saying 24 Hr Fitness was closing on McKinney Ave last year. Now look at all the signs that say "We are not closing" That came as a result of some of the new area gyms trying to get 24 Hr's cliental.

[St-T]

I had a friend look last weekend at the Azure... most of the top units are already reserved. He said only the 'bad' ones are left. I seriously doubt that your rumor is true.

[Tnekster]

Lots of activity on the web cam, looks like they are pouring the first ground level floor and have columns up for level 2.

[BigD5349]

I drove by at lunch. I hope that rumor is not true, but it appears all guns are blazing on construction. I hope this doesn't turn into another Lone Star Tower.

[clipper]

Would be easy for them to sit an office tower on top of that garage.

[rantanamo]

See Intel in downtown Austin. Not unprecedented to just stop construction. Not saying its true, but its very possible.

Are these construction costs a result of:

a.) World boom(really starting to slow down. Look at the Dubai articles. Reality is setting in)

b.) Post-Katrina New Orleans rebuilding. if so, is it totally necessary to rebuild NO itself.

c.) Oil prices

Just curious.

[Boredkid]

I have two friends that are buying there, just got off the phone with one and he has heard nothing about it.

[1999McKinneyAve]

We heard this rumour from a major developer in the Uptown area and these guys don't usually talk negative about one another. That's why I asked if anyone else had heard the same thing.....Dallas DOES have a history of developments being stopped after they started or not get off the drawing boards at all....

[1999McKinneyAve]

Here is the e-mail we received today: "I heard from a second source today that the Azure is considering giving money back and stopping construction. Apparently due to the rising and uncertain construction costs."

kEY WORD HERE IS "CONSIDERING"....

[clipper]

I heard the same rumors when they were building the Bank of America tower. And then when it was about 50 floors out of the ground the rumor spread that the foundation was bad and the building was "sinking." Then there were rumors that water would fall in sheets down the slanted glass sides of Fountain Place and drown pedestrians on Ross Avenue. These kinds of tales get a life of their own. As long as there are construction workers over there, they are building it. The day you don't see any hard hats is when it's time to worry.

[1999McKinneyAve]

This is a question about financials, not how the building is constructed. Azure is a beautiful building and I hope the rumor is false. But you have to admit that the constructions costs associated with Azure have to be tremendous. Costs for many building supplies have risen 40% in the past year, but they are selling units based on costs 18 months ago. It gets to a point where you say STOP.

The developers of the Bank of America building and other office buildings have an advantage. They can base rent prices based on the final costs associated with construction. You can't do that with condos.......

[Tnekster]

Has anybody called Harwood to ask them?

[AZDallasite]

This is a question about financials, not how the building is constructed. Azure is a beautiful building and I hope the rumor is false. But you have to admit that the constructions costs associated with Azure have to be tremendous. Costs for many building supplies have risen 40% in the past year, but they are selling units based on costs 18 months ago. It gets to a point where you say STOP.

The developers of the Bank of America building and other office buildings have an advantage. They can base rent prices based on the final costs associated with construction. You can't do that with condos.......

Even though construction costs have soared, you must remember that Azure's prices were originally going to start from the 170's. Now they are at the 400's. Their prices have increased much more than 40%.

[clipper]

Looking at their webcam, I'm more curious as to why the garage only fills part of that hole they dug. The carved out the whole block but the structure looks like it's less than two thirds of the block. Why would you excavate that entire area? Did they need the room to work? And what do you do to "fill" the rest of that hole? Just pondering. It would appear since their last still photo in January they've added a fourth level of parking and basically brought it up to grade level or there abouts. The started putting in the columns for the next level.