Green Line ridership update

[Rodger Jones]

Here is a blog post I put up today on the Dallas Transportation blog at The Morning News: http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/01/green-line-update.html

I didn't expect much ridership this early, but these numbers are a PR challenge for DART. I'm going to ask for platform-by-platform boarding figures to see what that tells us.

[tamtagon]

welcome to the forum

[mjblazin]

Was there a reason why DART brought Deep Ellum/Fair Park on line first before say Victory - UTSW (hospitals to NW)? I hope it wasn't simply to handle the State Fair. If it cost the same, I'd think metric of riders per day would be much higher and probably could have also meant re-deployment of a lot of buses. It seems DART rightly now has a lot routes covering those hospitals.

[Mballar]

The Green Line is basically a special events line right now. It doesn't really go anywhere. Having the Fair Park area and Victory as the current terminus is not going to entice people to ride that line unless it's absolutely the most convenient option. Let's wait until a year after the rest of the line opens up to analyze ridership.

[electricron]

The Green Line is basically a special events line right now. It doesn't really go anywhere. Having the Fair Park area and Victory as the current terminus is not going to entice people to ride that line unless it's absolutely the most convenient option. Let's wait until a year after the rest of the line opens up to analyze ridership.

And even as a special events line, it helped DART break records last October. When the rest of the Green line is in service late this year, DART ridership numbers should escalate significantly. It's much too early to determine what is, because the entire line isn't complete.

[RobertB]

Also, the route from Victory to Parkland is largely elevated, while the route to MLK is at-grade. Also, the Bryan-Hawkins intersection (including Central Expwy/Cesar Chavez bridge removal) needed to be coordinated with TxDOT, so it made sense to do the Pearl-MLK section ahead of the rest.

I don't think they could have brought the Medical Center station on line any sooner by delaying the all at-grade SE segment -- as shown by the fact that DART is now looking at starting Pleasant Grove service sooner, because it's almost done. If the NW segments could have been at-grade, they'd be coming on line earlier, too.

[Random Traffic Guy]

The SWMD/Parkland station is going to be quite a challenge for the first few years anyways, with the new Parkland construction obstructing easy access between the station and the medical district.

That whole ridership report is pretty shockingly low, as several of the DMN commentors have pointed out. But traffic is generally lower too with the economy, so before the recession the rail ridership probably was equalling a lane of freeway traffic as people said.

This also does not include the effect of the huge rise in annual pass prices for 2010. Anecdotally I have been told subscription is down up to 50%, by several people who run the employee DART pass program at significant companies. Companies are having to pass the price increase on to their employees. For some companies with little DART usage, I would think there would be a savings since the companies don't have to pay for unused passes anymore. However for companies with good DART utilization, I've heard the extra cost would be 2-3x the old subsidies if the companies tried to cover it for the employees.

[mjblazin]

The equivalent of regional pass went from 195 to 576. For some unexplained reason, if you worked downtown, it was another $200 on top of that amount. Downtown was within the limited access highway loop. The firm still paid a big subsidy but DART just made it too expensive. At those rates you have to use it 20 days out of 30.

It still makes sense for commuters, but it's a lot of money for many of our associates as lump sum. We had to pay by check, i.e., no credit cards. Unfortunately they end up spending more money buying weekly and monthly passes.

[F4shionablecHa0s]

Wait a minute, eight thousand people?! Are you serious? We spent all this money for a measly EIGHT THOUSAND PEOPLE?! I was a pro-rail guy until I saw this. Why don't we just buy them all cars? Seems like it would be more efficient.

[electricron]

Wait a minute, eight thousand people?! Are you serious? We spent all this money for a measly EIGHT THOUSAND PEOPLE?! I was a pro-rail guy until I saw this. Why don't we just buy them all cars? Seems like it would be more efficient.

That 8,000 people should reach 35,000 people once the entire Green line is open. I'd expect another 30,000 people using the line once the entire Orange line is open too. does 65,000 more daily rides (instead of 8,000 daily rides) make you feel better?

The initial Green line segment has only 5 new stations; (1) Victory, (2) Deep Ellum. (3) Baylor, (4) Fair Park, and (5) MLK. I guess the only station with lots of commuters boarding would be MLK. The other stations are designation stations, not commuter stations...

[TowerGuy]

That 8,000 people should reach 35,000 people once the entire Green line is open. I'd expect another 30,000 people using the line once the entire Orange line is open too. does 65,000 more daily rides (instead of 8,000 daily rides) make you feel better?

The initial Green line segment has only 5 new stations; (1) Victory, (2) Deep Ellum. (3) Baylor, (4) Fair Park, and (5) MLK. I guess the only station with lots of commuters boarding would be MLK. The other stations are designation stations, not commuter stations...
I completely agree. That is exactly my thinking regarding the Green Line. As busy as the Red Line is running parallel to the expressway, people need to realize that the Green Line will have the same effect as it runs parallel to I-35. It wouldn't surprise me if it attracted a couple thousand more riders than the Red Line due to people's utter disdain with the daily grind on I-35. Perhaps, we'll see.

[Rodger Jones]

About that 8,500 people: Remember, these are passengers who enter the CBD downtown in the morning.

That was my window of interest -- inbound rush hour passengers -- so that was the number I asked DART to supply for my DMN post:

http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/01/green-line-update.html

Keep in mind that DART's overall passenger count must be about 30,000+ a day, so I'd guess about a quarter of them come downtown to work in the morning.

I get that 30,000+ by halving the 60k+ trips a day DART has been reporting for several months now. It stands to reason that most people do round trips daily.

http://www.nctcog.org/trans/data/gasprices/Transit.pdf


Originally posted by electricon:
That 8,000 people should reach 35,000 people once the entire Green line is open. I'd expect another 30,000 people using the line once the entire Orange line is open too. does 65,000 more daily rides (instead of 8,000 daily rides) make you feel better?

I do the math differently.

DART folks have told us that when the full Green and Orange lines are open in a few years, the total daily ridership should double over its current levels -- meaning 60,000+ additional daily trips. Or, as I see it, 30,000 additional people.

If a quarter of them head downtown to work IN THE MORNING -- the same proportion as the Red and Blue lines -- that would mean 8,000 more, or16,000 total entering the CBD by train during the a.m. rush when the DART plan is built out.

That helps center city traffic congestion a lot, but I have no faith that train traffic converging on downtown on seven different spokes can be handled smoothly without the second alignment. D2 will be too long in coming.

[NThomas]

I completely agree. That is exactly my thinking regarding the Green Line. As busy as the Red Line is running parallel to the expressway, people need to realize that the Green Line will have the same effect as it runs parallel to I-35. It wouldn't surprise me if it attracted a couple thousand more riders than the Red Line due to people's utter disdain with the daily grind on I-35. Perhaps, we'll see.
Add DCTA's projected ridership as the majority of riders aren't going to be "reverse commuting" to Denton. Most of them will be heading to Carrollton on their way to Dallas.

[Speedbump Joey]

D2 will be too long in coming.

It would be nice to see a little bit more urgency out of DART on this.

[tamtagon]

http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/01/green-line-update.html

... from the blog... Maybe it's fairer to widen the snapshot beyond the morning rush hour and look at boardings by platform. I'll ask DART for those. Stay tuned.

That'll be interesting. I like the way you're looking at things.

[electricron]

It would be nice to see a little bit more urgency out of DART on this.

There's not much DART can do since the city favors the Convention Center Hotel route so much for the D2 line. DART has around $500 Million which could build the Lamar-Young route by 2014, but not the $700 to $800 Million for the Lamar-Marillia CCH route. DART needs an Interlocal Agreement with the city to run light rail trains down any city streets (either Young or Marilla). The city doesn't have to agree to allow a route it doesn't like. DART can't eminent domain the city, since the city owns and controls the city streets.

Therefore, it's the City of Dallas that is delaying D2. not DART, since it has the ultimate control and say over what happens on city streets.

DART needs more time to find more money to build the more expensive D2 line, and is hoping to find some Federal funds. Recently the Obama administration changes the rules for FTA "New Starts" funding, hopefully the city's preferred route will now qualify. Prior to the recent rule changes, it didn't qualify for Federal funds.

[RobertB]

You should be able to get a pretty accurate count of ridership on the SE line from Pleasant Grove by simply counting the number of people who currently ride the #165 and #42 buses from Lake June Transit Center. Those folks will move directly to the train. Over time, you'll have additional ridership as people discover the new option.

Of course, the anti-transit folks will whine that there's no gain, because bus riders shouldn't count because they weren't driving anyway. :(

I don't think the commenters on Rodger's blog posts will see any value in transit until gas prices get over $4 a gallon again. They're still making statements like "it would be cheaper to add another lane to the highway" -- yeah, right. Show me a way to add a lane (in each direction) to I-35E from Downtown to Lewisville for under $1 billion.

[Rodger Jones]

A few weeks ago I posted Green Line figures from DART that reflected the number of passengers delivered downtown during the morning rush hour. Those numbers tended to make ridership on the new Green Line look bad, by virtue of the relatively few downtown-bound riders.

http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/01/green-line-update.html

For example, average weekday ridership for the morning rush:
-- Red Line coming south brought 3,316 downtown
-- Green Line coming from Deep Ellum brought 177 downtown

DART's overall station-by-station numbers for last year tell a different story. If you look at total boardings, instead of the rush hour ridership that's typical for office workers, Green Line numbers are respectable. Fair Park ridership stacks up against many other, long-established stations.

Examples of average daily boardings by station from November:
-- Green Line's Fair Park station -- 1,467
-- Blue Line's Kiest station -- 1,204
-- Red Line's Forest Lane station -- 1,442

Away from the center city, the big numbers are at the end of both the Red and Blue lines, all of which top 2,000 a day.

Full report:

http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/02/better-look-at-green-line-figu.html

[mjblazin]

If they get on at Fair Park but don't leave the train in Downtown, where do they go? Is Victory not Downtown?

[Rodger Jones]

These are boardings. Since Victory is an offshoot of downtown, it's not lumped in with the Downtown Transit Mall for boardings.

[mjblazin]

Since at least 1467 per day board at FP, but only 177 exit the train in Downtown, what happened to the 1200+ that exited elsewhere? The only non-Downtown station a Green Line train can reach from Fair Park is Victory.

[TowerGuy]

Since at least 1467 per day board at FP, but only 177 exit the train in Downtown, what happened to the 1200+ that exited elsewhere? The only non-Downtown station a Green Line train can reach from Fair Park is Victory.
Hmmm...well, they could go to MLK Jr. Station. Deep Ellum also, but I bet the bulk of them disembark at Baylor. That is a busy area what with the places to eat, people that work in the hospital and people with appointments or non-emergency medical needs going to the hospital. That all makes sense to me. I don't know of any other way to explain the 1200+.

[Rodger Jones]

More clarification: the 177 number represents passengers who get off at the four downtown transit mall stops during the morning rush only.

[Rodger Jones]

We've been discussing DART rail ridership over on the Dallas Transportation blog, and I posted an item from a DART exec who gives a thorough discussion of expectations.

It's interesing.

http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/12/dart-exec-explains-red-linegre.html

[tamtagon]

^Article/blog is a good read. The difference in configuration and purpose of station destination from the starter lines and the Green/Orange line will keep passenger rail fans buzzing for a long time.

[mjblazin]

My experience on Green Line Out/In (reversal of Red line pattern) during rush hour is most seats are occupied. I've only seen SRO once on a night inbound in 2 weeks. I don't know if they are former bus users like myself, but the service being used. Those cars are not little Flying Dutchman ships. It also might improve ridership at some stations like Market Center if DART fixed how the station and neighborhood connect.

[ihavebeenseen]

Come on $4 gas.

[RobertB]

Come on $4 gas.
You're setting your sights too low, by a factor of 5 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106695133). ;)

[AeroD]

You're setting your sights too low, by a factor of 5 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106695133). ;)

Isn't that sort of like the old saying about dipping a frog in boiling water vs dipping a frog in water and slowly letting it boil.

That 4 dollar hike took everyone by storm, but a steady rise in gas prices, folks won't notice the difference.

[mjblazin]

The demand is not there to support $4 gas, regardless of whether it occurs by speculative action, cartel supply control, or government fiat via tax. If the price is that high, demand will drop and price will either drop or we'll have lots of available gas. Demand consists of too much elective use to hold that price. People will simply do less driving, less shopping, and pretty much reverse any economic improvement.

As demonstrated this year, reducing economic growth does not boost ridership and kills the sales taxes that fund DART. Consequently $4 gas is not a good idea for DART health.

The price could probably creep up a few % a year. If you have anything remotely like a price shock, people will react and the speculators know it. They won't get caught long this time. I hope our government officials also learned a few lessons.

[ihavebeenseen]

Really, do high gas prices do all of those horrible things you listed. Doubtful. It is more likely the economy was hammered by other factors.



(As of June 30, 2010)
2. Oslo, Norway | $7.41
3. Copenhagen, Denmark | $6.89
4. Hong Kong | $6.87
5. Berlin, Germany, and Monaco, Monte Carlo | $6.82
6. London, U.K. | $6.60
7. Rome, Italy | $6.44
8. Paris, France | $6.04
9. Sao Paulo, Brazil | $5.69
10. Seoul, Korea | $5.55
11. Tokyo, Japan | $5.40
17. Sydney, Australia | $3.84
18. Toronto, Canada | $3.81
24. New York, U.S. | $2.85

[Alex Rodriguez]

The demand is not there to support $4 gas, regardless of whether it occurs by speculative action, cartel supply control, or government fiat via tax. If the price is that high, demand will drop and price will either drop or we'll have lots of available gas. Demand consists of too much elective use to hold that price. People will simply do less driving, less shopping, and pretty much reverse any economic improvement.

As demonstrated this year, reducing economic growth does not boost ridership and kills the sales taxes that fund DART. Consequently $4 gas is not a good idea for DART health.

The price could probably creep up a few % a year. If you have anything remotely like a price shock, people will react and the speculators know it. They won't get caught long this time. I hope our government officials also learned a few lessons.


Could not have said it better myself. 100% agree

[mjblazin]

DMN had an article today about gas demand well below 2006's all time peak level and not likely to return for years, if ever. As expected surburbanites are finding ways to cut use and preserve their big rooms, big yards, and so-called empty lifestyle.

- The only thing peak in peak oil is demand
- If we are expecting return of surburbanites to save us, forget it. Stop wasting our limited funds on monuments and building/stadium/bridge eye candy and get busy on building neighborhoods, one block at a time.

[AeroD]

DMN had an article today about gas demand well below 2006's all time peak level and not likely to return for years, if ever. As expected surburbanites are finding ways to cut use and preserve their big rooms, big yards, and so-called empty lifestyle.

- The only thing peak in peak oil is demand
- If we are expecting return of surburbanites to save us, forget it. Stop wasting our limited funds on monuments and building/stadium/bridge eye candy and get busy on building neighborhoods, one block at a time.

Isn't some ways Dallas a collection of "suburbs": Preston Hollow, Far North Dallas, Lake Highlands, Lakewood, etc.

[gshelton91]

/\ the problem with Gas prices is less the demand in the USA then it is the demand from emerging markets like China. More Cars & Roads = More need for Gas... even if all they do is the most necessary driving it still adds up. Long term demand will likely out strip supply at current prices causing prices to rise to a new equilibrium… making other fuel options more economical --- the problem is that we can’t instantaneously switch to many of those alternatives. --- Causing a several year gap where fuel is very high and alternatives are very restrained. Though much of this difficulty depends on how fast prices rise.

[CDallas]

Everything has to be considered on a global scale today. The US has been in decline since the 1970's and will continue much as England did before us. The demand is going to come from the new super powers of China, Brazil, Russia and most of Asia. We will continue to use less gas but it will cost us much more as the other parts of the world use it in more quantity. Our nation and the way and where we live is going to change very dramatically than all of us living have ever known. We will survive but it will not be as number one and it will not be what we grew up experiencing.

[LH_Newbie]

The demand is not there to support $4 gas, regardless of whether it occurs by speculative action, cartel supply control, or government fiat via tax. If the price is that high, demand will drop and price will either drop or we'll have lots of available gas. Demand consists of too much elective use to hold that price. People will simply do less driving, less shopping, and pretty much reverse any economic improvement.

As demonstrated this year, reducing economic growth does not boost ridership and kills the sales taxes that fund DART. Consequently $4 gas is not a good idea for DART health.

The price could probably creep up a few % a year. If you have anything remotely like a price shock, people will react and the speculators know it. They won't get caught long this time. I hope our government officials also learned a few lessons.

Your comments are only based on US consumption - while it's true the US has decreased it's daily gasoline consumption by some 20% since it's peak in 2006, looking at US consumption is a bit narrow sighted. Demand in China and India have been on a steady - and steep - incline. This climb is projected to continue to increase - even while the US demand is set to continue it's decline (primarily due to the focus by both manufacturers and consumers on fuel efficiency - not to mention the longer-term electrification of vehicles in the US). Global demand is going to continue it's rise. I don't have the numbers on global demand, but my gut tells me we're within 2 years of passing our global consumption peak that happened prior to the global economic issues.

A barrel of oil is already back to $80. I predict we will see $100 in 2011 - meaning $4/gal gas is just around the corner.

Brian

[tamtagon]

We need better cars. Beside the complications of expensive gas, national-safety-threatening oil and occasional extraction disasters the pollution from manufacturing and [mostly] using cars are a long term health threat to 70% of the population.

Looking at the big picture, it's really hard to believe a such a troublesome product is allowed to exist in its current form. This country suffered years of economic distress from an OPEC oil embargo, while that was settling down we gained enemies as politico-religious upheaval in OPEC countries revolutionized ruling governments in Arabia and Persia, and then we entered into an indefinite state of war.

The ignorance of status quo is predictable and leveling.

The source of Green line ridership increase should come from its convenience not from the high price of gas. North Texas is sufficiently criss-crossed with highways either under a renovation plan or under construction; as the geographic size of the population center increases, the road into town from the next-new suburbs must include a train ticket.

[AeroD]

I know we want to TOD, but I really do hope that those warehouses along Denton Drive do not lose out to TOD.

One of Dallas' best assets is that it is still friendly to industrial/manufacturing/warehouse. Not many places in North Texas are, with notable exceptions of McKinney, Garland, and Fort Worth. Even Irving is kinda moving away from industrial, and looking more towards logistics (which makes sense).

[LH_Newbie]

I know we want to TOD, but I really do hope that those warehouses along Denton Drive do not lose out to TOD.

One of Dallas' best assets is that it is still friendly to industrial/manufacturing/warehouse. Not many places in North Texas are, with notable exceptions of McKinney, Garland, and Fort Worth. Even Irving is kinda moving away from industrial, and looking more towards logistics (which makes sense).

Don't forget: http://iipod-texas.org/

[mjblazin]

Your comments are only based on US consumption - while it's true the US has decreased it's daily gasoline consumption by some 20% since it's peak in 2006, looking at US consumption is a bit narrow sighted. Demand in China and India have been on a steady - and steep - incline. This climb is projected to continue to increase - even while the US demand is set to continue it's decline (primarily due to the focus by both manufacturers and consumers on fuel efficiency - not to mention the longer-term electrification of vehicles in the US). Global demand is going to continue it's rise. I don't have the numbers on global demand, but my gut tells me we're within 2 years of passing our global consumption peak that happened prior to the global economic issues.

A barrel of oil is already back to $80. I predict we will see $100 in 2011 - meaning $4/gal gas is just around the corner.

Brian

CNBC discussed it this AM and made it clear: each $0.01 rise in gas removes $600MM from the economy. With no income rise it's a zero sum game. The money comes right out of other goods and services. When the price rises, the economy suffers. It does not really matter what the global demand is. It only matters what you are willing to pay. When the price rises, you buy less of it and and everything else.

If you care about DART's health, you better hope gas gets no where near $4 because we'll see more cutbacks and layoffs.

[LH_Newbie]

I'm not hoping for high gas prices - I'm just stating the facts of supply and demand. If global demand goes up, like it is, so does it's price, like it is. Local demand is mostly irrelevant to global pricing. I do think we'll see $100/bbl oil in 2011 and $4 gas relatively soon after.

For what it's worth, I do believe that as a country, we are better off with higher gas prices - though I don't like those higher prices to be driven by the cost of a oil - I'd rather see those higher prices due to taxes so we keep those dollars within the border of our country and we modify consumer behavior. Why do I think higher prices are better? Two part answer:

1. Because we import a vast majority of our oil
2. The best way to modify consumer behavior is via pricing - increasing CAFE standards isn't the best method. It forces manufacturers to do what the consumer doesn't want. Changing consumer behavior changes the demand side of the equation, so the manufacturers modify their products because the consumers demand it.

Brian

[TexasPlus]

Our nation and the way and where we live is going to change very dramatically than all of us living have ever known. We will survive but it will not be as number one and it will not be what we grew up experiencing.Yes, with the Jimmy Carter administration Version 2.0 stating that as a goal, and the 111th congress's support we sure are headed that way.... :eek:

[CDallas]

Yes, with the Jimmy Carter administration Version 2.0 stating that as a goal, and the 111th congress's support we sure are headed that way.... :eek:

I believe that this is much greater than a Republican or Democratic congress or an administration this is a major geopolitical power shift from the Western nations to the Eastern powers. Nothing we can do can stop this paradimgn shift. All we can do is adapt and make the best of it. For example think of countries like Norway and Sweden they stay out of the fray and tend to their own matters and devote their resources accordingly.

[art_suckz]

I believe that this is much greater than a Republican or Democratic congress or an administration this is a major geopolitical power shift from the Western nations to the Eastern powers. Nothing we can do can stop this paradimgn shift. All we can do is adapt and make the best of it. For example think of countries like Norway and Sweden they stay out of the fray and tend to their own matters and devote their resources accordingly.

People used to say this about Japan... they were buying up huge chunks of American businesses and property... then they hit a speed bump. Look at the GDP gap between us and Japan/China... we still have plenty of time to innovate and grow.

China is starting to see food shortages and inflation... and their local cities went on a building and spending boom after they evicted a few million peasants... oh, and these local Chinese govts are in debt for about 1 Trillion dollars... bubble anyone?

Look at Europe... Greece and such. If we can tackle our debt and spur some growth I think we will all be surprised at how fast America can rebound.

Another way to look at it is the amount of patents filed. China is filing a lot but when it comes to science and creativity (even health/medicine) America is the place people want to be.

You can preach about America becoming average all you want but there millions of people out there that are devoting their lives to finding the next innovation in nearly as many applications. Thank God for people like that and the ones that don't listen to the gloom. People like Dean Kamen and scientific breakthroughs like Algae fuel will transform our future... you name it and someone wants to be the first to revolutionize the status quo. Today we actually live in times where the future comes faster every month, unlike the old days in the 50's of Popular Mechanics claims.

There will be an energy revolution soon, followed by a material revolution. Everything from our sneakers to the paint on our walls (even our poop) is going to make individuals net positive when it comes to energy.

Emissions will be another area where we will make breakthroughs... just read the news. When Exxon and Ford invest in Algae research that is already panning out in about a dozen areas you know something is happening.

The end is not near... we are on the edge of some amazing things. As long as we don't get nuked by savages in caves.

/rant

[TexasPlus]

I believe that this is much greater than a Republican or Democratic congress or an administration this is a major geopolitical power shift from the Western nations to the Eastern powers. Nothing we can do can stop this paradimgn shift. All we can do is adapt and make the best of it. For example think of countries like Norway and Sweden they stay out of the fray and tend to their own matters and devote their resources accordingly.I know of no other US administration that has/is actively worked/working to lower the standard of living for citizens of the USA.

http://www.economyincrisis.org/content/what-obama-isnt-telling-american-workers

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?_r=1

[NTexUnited]

I know of no other US administration that has/is actively worked/working to lower the standard of living for citizens of the USA.

http://www.economyincrisis.org/content/what-obama-isnt-telling-american-workers
Spare us all your right-wing vitriol. The opinion piece you linked contains nothing more than conjecture, that our executive branch is conspiring to keep unemployment high, as well as our debt! I thought that the site that published this article looked legitimate until I noticed a section of "thought provoking music to 'shake you up.'" I don't know how you figure that providing All Americans with affordable health care lowers their standard of living. But This is a thread about dart rail ridership, not a right wing message board.

By the way, the railhead sucks.

[TowerGuy]

I know of no other US administration that has/is actively worked/working to lower the standard of living for citizens of the USA.

http://www.economyincrisis.org/content/what-obama-isnt-telling-american-workers

Please, take this kind of talk elsewhere. This thread is about the DART Rail Green Line. It is not a soapbox for you to spew right wing attacks against President Barack Obama.

Might I suggest the following link where you can play the role of Glenn Beck?
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/

[TowerGuy]

How much of an impact is the DCTA A-Train expected to have on Green Line ridership? I would tend to think rail running parallel to I-35E from Denton to Downtown Dallas would attract a substantial number of weary drivers to the trains. Any estimates?

[electricron]

How much of an impact is the DCTA A-Train expected to have on Green Line ridership? I would tend to think rail running parallel to I-35E from Denton to Downtown Dallas would attract a substantial number of weary drivers to the trains. Any estimates?

I suppose we could find an answer to your question in DCTA's EIS for the A-Train.
http://www.dcta.net/Documents/RailDCTAExecSummary-July_07.pdf
On page 22 you'll read,
"The DCTA Regional Rail Service would have a 2030 ridership of about 5,600 riders per day, and total DART/DCTA system-wide transit usage would increase by about 17,300 unlinked trips daily."

Note: That 2030 projected ridership numbers, not 2011.

These projections don't answer your question directly. Most would consider 5,600 riders per day to suggest 11,200 trips per day. But that isn't necessarily true, as there will be some one-way trips in a day. Additionally, someone riding a DCTA train to catch a DART train on a daily round trip commuter would have 4 unlinked trips a day. If all 5,600 riders per day made 4 trips, it'll be 22,400 trips instead of 17,300 trips.

Therefore, assuming every rider made a round trip every day, the difference between 22,400 and 17,300 (divided by 2) would indicate the number trips (riders) not taking DART that day.

DCTA only = 22,400 - 17,300 = 5,100 trips (= 2,550 riders)
Riders taking both DCTA + DART trains = 5,600 - 2,550 = 3,050 riders making both DCTA + DART trips.
Therefore, taking both DCTA + DART trains = 3,050 x 4 = 12,200 trips
Proof = 5,100 trips + 12,200 trips = 17,300 trips; which equal 17,300 trips.
Therefore, my assumptions are pretty close to being correct...

Because the DCTA A-Train connects to DART's light rail and bus system, the A-Train daily ridership more than doubles, from 5,100 trips to 11,200 trips (5,100 + 6,100 =11,200).

And to answer your question, ithe A-Train effects the Green Line with 6,100 additional trips and an additional 3,050 riders by 2030.

Note: 6,100 trips for both DCTA and DART was arrived by dividing 12,200 by 2.

Each SLRV has the capacity of 200 passengers. 6,100 trips would fill 30.5 SLRVs. With 3 SLRV's per train, that's just more than 10 trains over an entire day.