Downtown is dieing - A residents point of view

[slaurel]

I thought I would post this for discussion. This is a letter (eMail) I sent to the Downtown Dallas Organization back on Dec. 21st. The email was addressed to each person on this page - http://www.downtowndallas.org/DowntownDallas/ContactUs.aspx . For the record, not a single person responded to me.

Am I completely off base?

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Dear Downtown Dallas Council -

The reason I am writing this letter is due to all the 'patting on the back' I hear from leaders regarding Downtown Dallas. The reality is much different.

I moved to Downtown Dallas one year ago. At the time I was very excited, starting a new job in the Comerica Tower, moving into a new apartment at the Dallas Power and Light Building and living in a downtown area for the first time, something I have always wanted to do. After one year I can't begin to tell you how frustrated I am from a resident point of view. Over the past 12 months, I have watched as things have continuously eroded. Businesses have started closing earlier or closed all together. I find myself having to get in my car more and more often to buy groceries etc. What I find more frustrating is the fact that a dedicated council exists to promote and help Downtown grow. What are you folks doing? I anticipate your first reaction to be "Look at all the new things in the Art District" or "What about the new Main Street Gardens park". If indeed this is your first response then I would guess you don't actually live downtown. Let me put it another way - Starbucks closes at 6:00 pm. This about sums it up. This is probably the earliest closing Starbucks within a 100 mile radius of Downtown. Put another way, I have to get in my car and drive outside of Downtown for a cappuccino. That sounds pretty absurd doesn't it?

A short list of downward spirals:

Choices for food without spending $15-$20 every night - Pizza and Subway.
The Urban Market Grocery store is obviously on it's last legs. They can't even keep the shelves stocked of late.
WhichWhich has begun closing at 6:00 pm during the week.
Fuse - closed. Supposedly will re-open in the spring but I think there is more to this story then being told.

Other comments:
It is just plain dirty Downtown. Seriously. A pressure washer could to wonders.
Bus stops are also a mess.
Still too many people looking for money. I applaud the Safety Patrol and Police efforts but still too many people looking for a handout all the time.

Add'l thoughts:
You all apparently are not thinking big enough. I worked for the Walt Disney Co. in Orlando for 6 years. I know what it means to think big. You have to think big then let things scale back. Christmas is a perfect example. Downtown Dallas should be the center of attention for the entire area, the place that everyone wants to see. Main Street should have been lit up with lights. Instead Frisco gets all the glory. Downtown Dallas gets a couple of Christmas trees.

Thought for growth:
There has to be a reason for people that don't live downtown to want to come downtown. Sit back and think about the places you drive to meet friends and spend time - 'hang out'. Here is an easy example to ponder - Why to people go to the mall? They don't just go to shop. The mall is a destination to spend time, with everything you need. The key point here is 'IT IS A DESTINATION'. Downtown has to become a destination spot. A place where people want to come and stay for a few hours. I have read about the effort to bring more shops to downtown. If this is all you are thinking about then you are missing the point. Why would anyone want to drive downtown to shop in the same place they can shop 20 other places, and pay for parking to do it? A true destination spot has something unique, something that people can't get somewhere else. What does this have to do with residents? Because if Downtown becomes so unique that you want to visit then you most likely would want to live there. How many times have you said that when you take a vacation somewhere?

I realize many people will disagree with me but the only people who have the right to disagree are those that actually live downtown - PERIOD. Anyone that tries to tell me that people are moving to downtown are mistaken and refuse to notice all the people leaving. Every week someone is moving out. Just walk around on the weekends.

I am reluctantly going to renew my lease for another year but this is it. Something has got to change.

Feel free to send this email to whomever you think might find it of value.

Thanks
Steve Laurel
Resident - Commerce St. - Downtown Dallas

P.S. - Let me know how I can be part of the solution............

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[AeroD]

I thought I would post this for discussion. This is a letter (eMail) I sent to the Downtown Dallas Organization back on Dec. 21st. The email was addressed to each person on this page - http://www.downtowndallas.org/DowntownDallas/ContactUs.aspx . For the record, not a single person responded to me.

Am I completely off base?

I thought downtown was "dead." I though it was a work in progress slowly, but surely coming to life. The economy also kinda sucks.

[incrediculous]

Some realistic points and criticisms in there, indeed! So you suppose the solution is to dream big, you have experience dreaming big, and you want to be a part of the solution... if only there was something you could do.

[downtownguy25]

Let me put it another way - Starbucks closes at 6:00 pm. This about sums it up. This is probably the earliest closing Starbucks within a 100 mile radius of Downtown. Put another way, I have to get in my car and drive outside of Downtown for a cappuccino. That sounds pretty absurd doesn't it?

Choices for food without spending $15-$20 every night - Pizza and Subway.

Other comments:
It is just plain dirty Downtown. Seriously. A pressure washer could to wonders.
Bus stops are also a mess.

Because if Downtown becomes so unique that you want to visit then you most likely would want to live there. How many times have you said that when you take a vacation somewhere?

Sit back and think about the places you drive to meet friends and spend time - 'hang out'.

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Is there not a coffee shop in the mosiac building that stays open late? Or there are a few starbucks in uptown that are not too far of a walk or you can take the street car.

You could take the train to city place and do shopping at target or the walmart in uptown.

15 to 20 bucks for a bite to eat is pretty much average for any major city in the world if not a bit low.

If you see trash, you can pick it up, get some friends together pick up trash for an afternoon then grab some beers at a downtown bar, city tavern is a good laid back bar.

When you visit a place the fact it is new and different just adds to the romance of wanting to live there, visiting a city and living in a city are not the same thing.

Really for the costs downtown is not a bad deal, rent starts under 1000 a month, you can purchase a condo starting at 100,000. Dallas has a low cost of living so you can afford to go out to eat and travel, etc. When I purchased my condo in downtown I paid about 120 dollars a square foot, compared to my condo in another city where I paid 500 a sqft.

I tend to hang out with friends in their homes, bars or a near by park, all things that downtown dallas have.

In reality a city is what you make of it, sounds like you need to get out and make some new friends and learn to enjoy what the city has to offer.

[tamtagon]

I thought I would post this for discussion. This is a letter (eMail) I sent to the Downtown Dallas Organization back on Dec. 21st. ... For the record, not a single person responded to me.

I cannot believe no one has responded. Even if it's a simple 'Please bear with us, this is taking longer than we thought' pat response.

Frankly, your expectations may have been set too high when you moved to downtown a year ago. Downtown Dallas seems to have greatly improved as a walkable residential neighborhood during the past decade, but there's still a long way to go.

It'll be very interesting to see what kind of comments this thread gets from other downtown residents.

[lakewoodhobo]

I too have written to these people at "Downtown Dallas" and have not gotten a response. They are pretty useless to communicate with unless you have a Twitter account, to which they might respond.

I agree with you 100% that residents are the true opinion leaders here, but as someone who works downtown and would like to live there, I feel my opinion counts too. I think things are moving in the right direction, albeit slower than we would like. Downtown is a huge puzzle with many pieces starting to come together (parks, entertainment venues, streetcars, residential, etc., even those elusive video boards). It will happen, just not fast enough for some people.

Have you considered joining the residents council? I don't know anything about that group, but it seems like that is the forum where you would be part of the solution.

P.S. I got a chuckle because I thought the title of your thread was "Downtown is dieting"

[dfwcre8tive]

DowntownDallas, the organization, doesn't really have the funds or means to completely transform downtown. They are more of an advocacy group to the City, although they do have a lot of projects aimed at bringing in businesses and stimulating activity in the CBD. Have you emailed ashford@downtowndallas.com? Ariel is the Community Relations Coordinator with DowntownDallas. Have you emailed your Residents Council Committee representative from DP&L? I urge you to get involved in the Downtown Residents Council (open to all residents) and attend the meetings to share your ideas and vent your frustrations. It takes creative thinkers like you to make the city a great place to live. There is also a town hall meeting with Senator Royce West and Councilwoman Angela Hunt next Thursday evening.

Downtown does have a lot of things going on, and it's certainly better off now than it was only a few years ago. The economy has definitely stalled progress that was being made. Main Street Garden has improved the area and will begin to host many activities (volleyball leagues, outdoor movies, concerts, etc) starting in the spring. There are a lot of new restaurants coming in, and hopefully the investments made with Main Street Garden and the Arts District (which really were 2009's focus) will pay off with more interest in making the CBD more vibrant.

If there is an issue with restaurants and bars the residents council can also pressure the owners to make changes. The council has been responsible for creating a petition causing Jason's Deli to stay open later. They have also urged the city to make the area resident-friendly and are responsible for the Clean Team. Perhaps the most important work going on is the Dallas Downtown Area Plan (http://www.downtowndallas360.com/), which will create a map for the city for the next several years. Have you attended any of the community input sessions or kept up with the progress being made?

I'm glad you have chosen to live downtown, and I feel your frustrations. But there's a lot you can do to get involved and improve our neighborhood.

[mjblazin]

The most frequent criticism is that downtown does not have places to linger at zero or minimal cost in an upscale atmosphere. That's correct. It's not here now and won't be here for years. You either make friends and hang out at their places(like our not well-off parents and grandparents did in their twenties and thirties) or you take public transportation to Uptown, Mockingbird Station and Park Lane where you can hang out.

Downtown and nearby neighborhoods work well for proximity to work, public transportation, and even interstates. In less than 5 minutes I can be on one of 4 different limited access roads in 4 different cardinal directions. Avoid the flashy and supposedly cool residences because you are overpaying at this point, especially if you rent and get no equity upside as we improve.

When I moved here 14 years ago, people thought I risked my life if I walked from my downtown office to Uptown home at night (when I missed the bus). We are well up from that perception. Now we have single women walking dogs on city streets at night or jogging. Imagine where we'll be in another ten years. But it won't be 2 years or 5 years. Set your time horizons accordingly, live here for the right reasons, and you'll do very well.

[cowboyeagle05]

As pointed out above Backbeat Cafe has all those coffee drinks and is open past 6pm every regular business day of course we make those beloved cappuccinos.

We also understand from a business perspective how hard it is to remain open past four o'clock. To be realistic the only reason we are open past 4pm like most of the tunnel restaurants let alone the above ground businesses is the fact that we have shows almost every night of the week that help keep the place open for Downtown residents who live here past 4pm. Our shows bring audiences from the suburbs and other Dallas neighborhoods on most nights much of which have never really been Downtown. After a show at Backbeat Cafe a good amount tend to head over to Main Street to enjoy the later open businesses.


The one thing I have noticed is the sort of Christmas lights that cris-cross Main Street seem to be partially dead a large portion of the time. Which is unfortunate cause they really do help promote the movement of people up and Main Street at night time.

[lakewoodhobo]

The one thing I have noticed is the sort of Christmas lights that cris-cross Main Street seem to be partially dead a large portion of the time. Which is unfortunate cause they really do help promote the movement of people up and Main Street at night time.

Yes, the festival lights are essential to maintaining a sense of street life on Main. I've always wondered whether they would have to come down if a streetcar route is added.

[xen0blue]

it's sad to hear what you wrote. but personally, I like to think this is just a result of the bad economy, and not really "downtown dieing", per se.

[NThomas]

DTD is nowhere near the tipping point. Unfortunatly, I think your expectations are just too high. But I think eventually, there will be a time where these kind of complaints are replaced with: "There's too much traffic and too many people living in DT. I wish some of them would move out to the 'burbs, like in Durant."

[dfwcre8tive]

Yes, the festival lights are essential to maintaining a sense of street life on Main. I've always wondered whether they would have to come down if a streetcar route is added.

They are supposed to be replacing those lights with new ones soon. The tree lights will also be replaced, so I've heard.

[Justin Terveen]

downward spiral?... man, you haven't been around long enough to even speculate. you obviously have no idea where this neighborhood has come from. frankly, i'm not even sure you belong down here. buck up, understand you're a pioneer and quit whining. if you can't live with a little city scum and a few homeless folks, then downtown is simply not for you.

[Bandito]

DTD has come a long way.....shoot, even in the last year. Hell, I am dying to move down there.

[Downtown Resident]

I enjoy shopping at the Urban Market but downtown residents need to shop at this place for it to thrive.

[Justin Terveen]

okay, maybe i was a bit harsh. please forgive my crunkedness. flavaTV was on. but still...

[jovangonzales]

DTD is nowhere near the tipping point. Unfortunatly, I think your expectations are just too high. But I think eventually, there will be a time where these kind of complaints are replaced with: "There's too much traffic and too many people living in DT. I wish some of them would move out to the 'burbs, like in Durant."

I see what you did with that, there. I like it.

I think for what Downtown Dallas has at the moment, it's great. If it didn't have DART, I could see some of your issues really being a problem. But, as already stated, you can easily ride the train to Cityplace for shopping or Mockingbird for a movie, the Zoo for a zoo day (I didn't know what to call it!), walk to a museum (the Holocaust Museum is great), walk anywhere. Soon the Green Line will be finished and that just offers that many more places. Besides, DT isn't THAT huge. take the train to Victory and take a nice stroll on Katy Trail and go somewhere in the Turtle Creek area. This is all pretty much what I'd do/will be doing if/when I live in DT. I also think that with the economy slowly starting to piece itself back together, DT will be seeing much better days ahead.

[aygriffith]

From the time I've spent divided between places in Dallas, Salt Lake City and Toronto, Dallas isn't the worst city on the planet. I was living in Dallas more than I am now up through the end of 09 but during that time I can tell you that Downtown has come long strides since I got a place downtown in 07. I remember going downtown Dallas when I first moved to Texas in 02 and it was pretty bad.

There are places to eat for less than 10 open past 6pm... Dr. Bell's BBQ is pretty good and can be had for less than 10, Jason's Deli is open till 8pm and is pretty good chain fare, City Tavern has a decent hamburger, Sol's can be had from 10 to 15 bucks and isn't any worse than going to On the Border. The Mexican place at the corner of Pacific and Akard is open til 7pm.

The only city I live in that's has a significantly better urban atmosphere than Dallas is Toronto... SLC isn't bad its just slow.

[CasperITL]

Slaurel,

Don't worry about what most of the people here say. I'm sure it weighs heavily on you ponying up $12,000 or more in rent for another year in a part of town that is simply broken. The same folks in the posts above mine have been trotting out the same old lines for many years. Just search for the "Downtown is coming alive some say" thread.

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=4151&page=1&pp=50

In the 5 years since that thread began, not much has happened as a net positive for downtown. Things open, then close. In stark contrast, look at the building boom in Uptown during the last five years!

Don't let the posters here push you around. Read the thread I linked to above, have a good laugh and realize how many of them are bumbling fools.

The city will not enforce the panhandling problem, homeless and vagrants in downtown. You are stuck with that. You will also not see any traction on the retail or restaurant end either. Really cannot blame the economy. Just failed business models and lending standards.

I'm sure some smartass will say that things are getting better and point to the new park. I'd suggest they look at the Statler as they say that.

[Mballar]

^Bitter, party of one. . .your table is ready.

[NThomas]

I see what you did with that, there. I like it.

I think for what Downtown Dallas has at the moment, it's great. If it didn't have DART, I could see some of your issues really being a problem. But, as already stated, you can easily ride the train to Cityplace for shopping or Mockingbird for a movie, the Zoo for a zoo day (I didn't know what to call it!), walk to a museum (the Holocaust Museum is great), walk anywhere. Soon the Green Line will be finished and that just offers that many more places. Besides, DT isn't THAT huge. take the train to Victory and take a nice stroll on Katy Trail and go somewhere in the Turtle Creek area. This is all pretty much what I'd do/will be doing if/when I live in DT. I also think that with the economy slowly starting to piece itself back together, DT will be seeing much better days ahead.
DART's light-rail is such a commuter system, sometimes I wonder if it'll ever be used for more then just that. Look at the lack of late-night service. When I first heard of the Green and orange lines and more importantly the Baylor & Deep Ellum Stations, I figured wow, what a great way to get people in and out of Deep Ellum safely if they lived within walking distance from a station. Wrong. You'd have to board the green line at the DE station at 11:40 to catch the last red line from pearl station on saturdays. Now maybe I'm a party animal but getting out of the bar at 11:20 is not my idea of a good night. That's just one example of why I feel DART isn't contributing to Dallas.

[palchik]

Take a cab.

[NThomas]

Take a cab.
It's easier to complain.

[mjblazin]

DART has bigger priorities than worrying about people having to leave bars early. Best bet to expand hours would be increase in Baylor late night staff from future expansions. With Parkland/UT SW/Children's at one end and Baylor at the other, the case for Green Line gets stronger. Lots of nurses and technicians, mostly women, would make for a stronger case than young males getting an early last call at a Deep Ellum bar.

[sterling]

downward spiral?... man, you haven't been around long enough to even speculate. you obviously have no idea where this neighborhood has come from. frankly, i'm not even sure you belong down here. buck up, understand you're a pioneer and quit whining. if you can't live with a little city scum and a few homeless folks, then downtown is simply not for you.

This is right on the money, though maybe we don't want ninja on the welcome desk at happydallas.com.

[Justin Terveen]

i'm passionate...

[jovangonzales]

DART's light-rail is such a commuter system, sometimes I wonder if it'll ever be used for more then just that. Look at the lack of late-night service. When I first heard of the Green and orange lines and more importantly the Baylor & Deep Ellum Stations, I figured wow, what a great way to get people in and out of Deep Ellum safely if they lived within walking distance from a station. Wrong. You'd have to board the green line at the DE station at 11:40 to catch the last red line from pearl station on saturdays. Now maybe I'm a party animal but getting out of the bar at 11:20 is not my idea of a good night. That's just one example of why I feel DART isn't contributing to Dallas.

Oh, I'm definitely not saying that DART is perfect, but it certainly helps DT as a selling point IMO. The option is there during the time most people would use it (shopping, eating, etc). Besides none of Dallas really has the population concentration (of people that would go out) near the stations to justify keeping the lines open for what probably amounts to a small portion of DART's rail traffic (though there could be a lot riding if the option was there). I guess when DT becomes more of a "destination," then we will hopefully see later hours. Plus, DART is better than nothing, right? Eh, if you think DE is bad, then wait till D2 opens, then it's pretty much useless. You're definitely right, though. Later hours would be so much better and just provide that much more in the way of options.

[AeroD]

... maybe I'm a party animal but getting out of the bar at 11:20 is not my idea of a good night. That's just one example of why I feel DART isn't contributing to Dallas.

If you start your drinking at 7PM, 11PM is a great time to call it quits. Drinking past that hour, feelings of regret the following morning increases exponentially.

[SeriousSummer]

Downtown isn't what it should be. I might even go along with someone who says it's "dead", but it's definitely getting better not worse. So I don't think you can say it's dying.

Of course when I move downtown in May, I expect things will pick right up!

[Bandito]

If you start your drinking at 7PM, 11PM is a great time to call it quits. Drinking past that hour, feelings of regret the following morning increases exponentially.

HAW!

[NThomas]

DART has bigger priorities than worrying about people having to leave bars early. Best bet to expand hours would be increase in Baylor late night staff from future expansions. With Parkland/UT SW/Children's at one end and Baylor at the other, the case for Green Line gets stronger. Lots of nurses and technicians, mostly women, would make for a stronger case than young males getting an early last call at a Deep Ellum bar.
Oh, I'm definitely not saying that DART is perfect, but it certainly helps DT as a selling point IMO. The option is there during the time most people would use it (shopping, eating, etc). Besides none of Dallas really has the population concentration (of people that would go out) near the stations to justify keeping the lines open for what probably amounts to a small portion of DART's rail traffic (though there could be a lot riding if the option was there). I guess when DT becomes more of a "destination," then we will hopefully see later hours. Plus, DART is better than nothing, right? Eh, if you think DE is bad, then wait till D2 opens, then it's pretty much useless. You're definitely right, though. Later hours would be so much better and just provide that much more in the way of options.
My point being that limited service hours during late-night early morning, would go much further to push DART as more of a transit solution then a commuter system. It's a good system but those little things IMO would make it great.



If you start your drinking at 7PM, 11PM is a great time to call it quits. Drinking past that hour, feelings of regret the following morning increases exponentially.
I usually start at 9. There are several nights starting two hours earlier would have kept me out of trouble. :cheers:

[downtownguy25]

My point being that limited service hours during late-night early morning, would go much further to push DART as more of a transit solution then a commuter system. It's a good system but those little things IMO would make it great.


It is fairly common with mass trans systems to shut down late at night, london, paris and toronto are a few off the top of my head that end around midnight or one am. I remember in london missing the last train and staying out all night till the first train in the am. In paris its pretty much expected that people will stay out till the trains start back up in the am.

[tamtagon]

In paris its pretty much expected that people will stay out till the trains start back up in the am.

dude, sweet

[vman]

Thinking that move outs are an indication that downtown is dying is a little shortsighted. I live in a rental community and people move out...and in all the time. Unless you know why and where the tenants are moving, that just isn't a very good indicator, as I know several people that move from one downtown property to another. And it's my understanding that downtown is doing well in the rental market.

I do think Uptown, in some ways, has been a problem for downtown. Uptown simply blossomed before downtown did and lots of what downtown desires is already firmly planted in Uptown. Add that to the other (new) districts like Bishop Arts and Henderson Ave, that have exploded since I've lived in Dallas, and it's easy to see downtown has some real competition. DTD needs to focus on becoming a neighborhood as well as a destination. Tryng to revive it as an entertainment district like FW did simply will not work in Dallas. Downtown's focus on drawing workers and residents, as well as things like parks and transit, is the way to go. Things have improved greatly since I've lived here.

[gshelton91]

I think the point about downtown not being a destination is right... We don't yet have something simple we can point to downtown and say hey lets go do that... The notable restaurants are way high-end and the bars are small and simple -- or high end lounges --- not to say they are not good bars and restaurants they just don't drive me to go downtown

[Kelley USA]

DT needs help- but it's certainly not dying (or dieting)...

1. AT&T relocation with a nice new AT&T store on the groundfloor
2. Several new 7-11 locations (sure, not that a big of a deal but a nice addition)
3. Once Main St park gets fully open you'll see people playing on the lawn. This summer they'll also have movie nights which will bring people DT
4. Dallas Chop House just opened
5. The Joule has been buying vacant buildings and will undergo a nice expansion
6. I know it's the West End- but it's still considered DT and you can find plenty of affordable dining options
7. Woodall Deck Park is under construction- can only be a good thing!
8. Take a walk over to One Arts Plaza- nice area with some good restaurants and a nice wine bar
9. Convention Center Hotel is under construction. In time it will bring future development if Matthews can get it done...

So, it might appear that it's dying- but I still see investments being made even in a weak economy... Hang in there and thanks for being a pioneer!

[CasperITL]

I do think Uptown, in some ways, has been a problem for downtown. Uptown simply blossomed before downtown did and lots of what downtown desires is already firmly planted in Uptown. Add that to the other (new) districts like Bishop Arts and Henderson Ave, that have exploded since I've lived in Dallas, and it's easy to see downtown has some real competition.

One difference is that TIF money for Uptown and State-Thomas projects were not squandered like they were in Downtown. I think that the days of easy government tax breaks, low interest loans and grants will largely disappear in the future. The tax money for Downtown projects went to folks who were either over their heads, crooked or just plain stupid. I think only the developer of the Urban Market was called to the carpet on mismanagement in front of the City Council.

Uptown in 1999 and Downtown in 1999 were very similar in regards to development. Back then McKinney Avenue was completely torn up and not only could one not drive to restaurants, some you could not even walk to! It has really been since 2003-4 that Uptown has taken off.

[tamtagon]

Has the tax reduction program for Uptown (aka West Village) development concluded yet?

----------------
I need to get more familiar with this:

http://www.dallas-ecodev.org/area_redevelopment.html

The downtown Dallas programs haven't really reached puberty, yet, right? Like, the grants or abatements or whatever have been handed out for less than a decade. If it took Uptown-ish 15-20 years to really have crossed the success threshold, then the downtown efforts should be allowed at least that much time before judgement is passed.

The success of programs in Uptown will only aid the prospect for successful downtown programs - the more people in Uptown, the more visits can be anticipated to downtown.

[mjblazin]

Did not Uptown have several large developers, e.g. Post, that quickly put in lots of reasonably priced apartments that quickly ramped up the number of residents when lenders were throwing money at them? They were able to acquire large chunks of land that made the moves worthwhile. I wonder if they would have done the same if they had to build a half a block or less at a time.

The only way way to build neighborhood services if to have sufficient residents to use and pay them. Yes, lots of Uptown visitors use the services, but the residents are the core support. We in DTD keep forgetting that basic rule and then wonder why shops and restaurants fail.

We are making progress, one incremental resident at a time. The other stuff is just froth and show.

[vman]

[QUOTE=mjblazin]
The only way way to build neighborhood services if to have sufficient residents to use and pay them. Yes, lots of Uptown visitors use the services, but the residents are the core support. We in DTD keep forgetting that basic rule and then wonder why shops and restaurants fail.
[QUOTE]


Now this is one area where I think downtown could have planned better. In the early stages of downtown revival, I think Dallas should have gotten with a developer, and through renovation and new construction, created a sizeable ( at least one block, two would have been awesome) downtown residential district to jump start a revival. DTD would probably be a different place if the majority of its downtown residents were more concentrated. Right now, they're scattered all over downtown. I guess what Forest City is trying to do is sorta the same thing, but it seems to be in reverse. A dense residential district of 10,00 people packed together seems like a better incentitive for the businesses that downtown residents desire. Right now, if something opens in the Mosaic, do people in the West End know about it?...Farmer's Market? Victory? Arts Distict? I honestly know people downtown that have never seen Urban Market!

Dallas has done a good job in attracting residents to downtown, as most people I know love living here. I just think it could have been done better with a little more planning. I think two solid blocks of activiity would be better than the spotty action that 's downtown right now.

[lakewoodhobo]

^I think if Dallas had done it that way, we would've ended up with a downtown version of Victory Park (overpriced, lifeless and in financial trouble). Instead, we have what the Hamiltons and Forest City did, and the result is a more organic growth.

[dallasbrit]

^I think if Dallas had done it that way, we would've ended up with a downtown version of Victory Park (overpriced, lifeless and in financial trouble). Instead, we have what the Hamiltons and Forest City did, and the result is a more organic growth.
I'm not sure I agree. Downtown's "organic" growth is what's trying folk's patience. It's great to have a building here and building there development, but downtown's problem is the other "stuff" isn't following. I think a big problem is lack of cohesiveness. You have residences downtown that are spread about with nothing but parking and other vacant buildings to connect them. If a well planned, well connected district was built in '95, after fifteen years, who knows what would've happened. Victory isn't really a fair comparison...to anything.

[dfwcre8tive]

I'm not sure I agree. Downtown's "organic" growth is what's trying folk's patience. It's great to have a building here and building there development, but downtown's problem is the other "stuff" isn't following. I think a big problem is lack of cohesiveness. You have residences downtown that are spread about with nothing but parking and other vacant buildings to connect them. If a well planned, well connected district was built in '95, after fifteen years, who knows what would've happened. Victory isn't really a fair comparison...to anything.

Isn't that what the Dallas Downtown Area Plan is all about? Surveying what we have now, making a wish list and sets of goals to build on what we already have, and then setting a timeline to achieve those things?

http://www.downtowndallas360.com/

[vman]

^I think if Dallas had done it that way, we would've ended up with a downtown version of Victory Park (overpriced, lifeless and in financial trouble). Instead, we have what the Hamiltons and Forest City did, and the result is a more organic growth.
Don't get stuck on my residential district. That's coulda, woulda, shoulda talk since it never happened.

[vman]

If a well planned, well connected district was built in '95, after fifteen years, who knows what would've happened. Victory isn't really a fair comparison...to anything.
I actually think Victory would have worked (with a few changes) had it actually been downtown. And in regards to retail downtown especially, there is going to have to be a serious investment and/or risk made to jumpstart it. I was very impressed with the Houston Pavillion development. It think it's going to take a similar investment to make other retailers serious about DTD. I've been in Dallas ten years, downtown six, and although things have improved, still no theater, no bookstore, few cheap places to eat after 6pm, and just about no place to just sit, people watch, and hang out (main st. gardens...maybe).

[F4shionablecHa0s]

*dying

[elmstreetdallas]

...and just about no place to just sit, people watch, and hang out (main st. gardens...maybe).

When the weather warms up, Main Street Garden is going to be an awesome people watching spot. No "maybe" about it -- not even the slightest possibility that it won't be.

[lakewoodhobo]

Be a part of the solution:

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/01/come-thursday-a-townhall-meeti.html




Come Thursday, a townhall meeting for downtown Dallas residents
Rudolph Bush/Reporter

Are you one of downtown Dallas' 5,000 or so residents?

If so, you'll want to make plans for a townhall meeting with City Council member Angela Hunt and State Sen Royce West for Thursday evening.

From an e-mail Hunt just sent out.

State Senator Royce West and I are hosting a joint townhall meeting for residents of Downtown Dallas on Thursday, January 28, 2010, beginning at 6:30 p.m., at the Universities Center (1901 Main Street, across from Main Street Garden).

President & C.E.O. of Downtown Dallas John Crawford will give us an update on Downtown, while Dallas County District Attorney Craig Watkins will discuss the state of Dallas County's criminal justice system.

Senator West and I will be available to answer any questions. I hope you will join us!

[AshtonM]

I think to say that downtown is "dying" is really taking things out of perspective. Rome wasn't built in a day. (Cliches are great) Invigorating downtown wasn't even really a major goal of the city until about ten years ago. I think many of us have an urban dream or utopian idea of what a downtown should look like and get dissapointed when they don't see that in DTD. There are many things about downtown that need to change in order to attract more people and become more of a neighborhood, but to say that it's dying just simply isn't accurate.