Lake Highlands: Town Center + All LH Development

[LakeHighlands]

Urban center plans progressing
Officials 'pumped up' about possible mixed-use project
07:00 PM CDT on Saturday, July 10, 2004
By WENDY HUNDLEY / The Dallas Morning News


A long-discussed revitalization project that would create a town center for Lake Highlands appears to be gaining momentum.

Dallas City Council member Bill Blaydes said he hopes to make an announcement next month about plans for an urban-style development where people could live, work and shop.

"We're well under way in its planning," Mr. Blaydes said of the proposed project, which would require a zoning change and approval of the Dallas City Council. "We've got the core area under approved letters of intent" to sell property for the plan.

Mr. Blaydes declined to give specifics but said a developer is interested in building a high-density, mixed-use project near the DART light-rail line.

"It's definitely more than a concept. A lot of work has gone into it," said Mike Miles, DART's senior manager of community and member city relations. "It certainly matches the kind of [project] we like to see with transit-oriented development."

He said a group that includes DART, developers and city officials has been discussing the idea for months.

"We're pretty pumped up about it," Mr. Miles said. "I've never seen a group work together like this."

Mr. Blades said the development would create a sort of downtown area for Lake Highlands, a community now centered on Lake Highlands High School. He plans to give more details at a town hall meeting at the school on Aug. 24.

"The entire area has wanted a town center for 30 years," said Mr. Blaydes, who represents District 10, which includes Lake Highlands. "There is no downtown. We've got a dying retail system. This is revitalization on an urban corridor."

He said the development would combine offices, stores, restaurants and dwellings – lofts, townhouses and zero lot-line homes.

Although he foresees the possibility of some upscale apartments, Mr. Blaydes said most residences would be owner-occupied.

An increase in homeownership is seen as one of the long-range goals for District 10, which stretches from Northwest Highway to the Richardson border.

The area has a housing imbalance because 67 percent of residents rent their homes and many multifamily complexes are in poor condition, according to the District 10 Land Use Plan Interim Report.

As a whole, Dallas has a 57 percent housing rental rate.

The District 10 report recommends increasing homeownership from 33 percent to 50 percent. It also encourages development around DART light-rail stations.

"Diverse housing types are what we're looking for in District 10," said Shawn Holyoak, chief planner for the city's development services department. "Homeownership brings stability. A good, healthy community has a good mix of housing choices."

He said a town center could be the first project zoned under the urban corridor category that was approved two years ago.

"It's not been used except as the basis for several planned development districts," he said.

The urban corridor zoning category was designed to help builders "move away from the suburban development style where everyone has to drive everywhere," he said. It encourages high-density, mixed-use, pedestrian-oriented developments along mass transit routes.

"It's almost a back-to-the-future approach," Mr. Holyoak said. "It's looking at what we gave up when we got in our cars and went to the suburbs."

This "new urbanism" concept has been used at Mockingbird Station and Uptown in Dallas. It has also transformed a 130-acre field into Southlake Town Center and pumped new life into downtown Plano.

Mr. Miles, a Lake Highlands resident, said the area needs this type of reinvestment. "I think the community would fully embrace it."

Lake Highlands has a strong sense of community but "doesn't have an identity of where the town center is," he said. The proposed development "would bring focus and design to that city center that [Mr. Blaydes] envisions."

E-mail whundley@dallasnews.com

or call 469-330-1615

[LakeHighlands]

This is great news for the area. Like I said before there is a lot of working going on in Lake Highlands (District 10 right now). There is also 2 other shopping centers that are in plans to become upscale boutique shops. The Skillman/Kinsley and the Audelia/Kingsley shopping centers. The new development that will be on the DART rail line is going to be a dense development with multi level residence/retail like Mocking Bird Station. Except Lake Highlands Downtown will be a lot larger. Also, like I have said before a lot of the apartments will not be in Lake Highlands in the near future. The new development will be almost all home owner occupied/condos. We do not want any more apartments in Lake Highlands because 30 year from now we will have the same problem we are having today. A lot of Dallas with all these new apartments being built today will be facing problems we have in LH 30 years from now. Also with zero lot homes starting at close to half a million dollars in LH, it is a good replacement for the low income apartments.

The rest of Dallas will be able to look at District 10 as the blue print for the city future zoning, because District 10 is the first district to be rezoned and planed using the new planning system. Besides new urban development, many other things are in planning such as uniforms street signs and utility poles for all of District 10; so that when someone crosses the other districts they will notice a change like if you are going into a new city. You can tell right now when driving north on Skillman or Abrams when you entered district 10 because of the landscaping and drastic improvement in the street, but unique street signs and poles with further show the difference. I think all the work for a town square/ downtown in Lake Highlands is great, but it will only enhance the image of the area as a separate entity from Dallas. Lake Highlands is called small town in a big city. With us having a dense DT of our own we are becoming like small city within a bigger city.

[rantanamo]

I read the article, but I'm confused as to exactly where this will be. Will this replace the apartments along the rail line north of Church Rd? And is Lake Highlands or the developers trying to raise money for a station. I don't think it would be a big deal to build it around some straight sections of track with private money. That way it wouldn't have to wait until 2014 or so to be built.

[tamtagon]

I think this is excellent. DART rail alignment is slowly shaping the city. As the mixed-use trend continues to increase population density at DART's off-grade train stations, increased single family home neighborhood integrity is one of the major benefits, often overshadowed by the excitment and glam of Dallas becomes more urban. DART member cities really need to begin discussions over the nature of future TOD to minimize retail redundancy from station to station. As Victory and West Village developments extend downtown beyond the CBD, it is possible (maybe favorable, what do you think?) that downtown residents will take the train to suburban stations for more domestic retail options as suburban residents head into town for entertainment.

[LakeHighlands]

I read the article, but I'm confused as to exactly where this will be. Will this replace the apartments along the rail line north of Church Rd? And is Lake Highlands or the developers trying to raise money for a station. I don't think it would be a big deal to build it around some straight sections of track with private money. That way it wouldn't have to wait until 2014 or so to be built.

The rail station is already built. :D The money is there area development will start as soon as zoning is taken care of and the plan is formally presented to residences at the town hall meeting. The area has lots of empty land around the station and there are apartment on the other part. The land is a “perfect location” easy access to the freeways hint.** The plan is already finished. It is a very large development and for the most part the infrastructure is already built. Construction would begin sooner than you think, less than a year. This plan has been in the works for a long time now and most residents and people in the LHAIA know which station it is. Also construction will start within the next few weeks on the Shopping Center on Kingsley/Skillman.

[LakeHighlands]

Center Awaiting New Look
The Dallas Morning News, by Steve Brown
July 8, 2004

Developers planning to renovate a mostly vacant Lake Highlands shopping center say they hope to upgrade the busy intersection. The Kingsley Square retail center at Skillman and Kingsley has suffered since Whole Foods closed there a couple of years ago.

Investor Ray Washburne's Charter Holdings plans to start work in the next few weeks on the 139,000 square foot retail center.

Terms of the transaction with an institutional investor were not disclosed, but the shopping center, built in 1978, is valued on the tax rolls at $2.4 million.

"We are going to upgrade into a boutique neighborhood center," said Mr. Washburne, who recently acquired a portfolio of commercial properties in the Dallas area. "We think our project can be a catalyst to helping that area improve."

Whole Foods closed in mid-2002 after the Austin-based grocer said its sales had been disappointing.

Most of the retail has cleared out, but Mr. Washburne - one of the founding investors in the Mi Cocina restaurant chain - said the restaurant there is doing well.

"It's always been a great Mi Cocina location," he said. "But the landlord has not been attentive to the center, and it has emptied out."

No new tenants have been signed yet. The center has strong demographics, with almost 20,000 people living within a one-mile radius.

"The neighborhood has a lot of strengths, plus involved homeowners who would welcome more restaurants and retail," said Greg McDonald, an executive vice president with the Weitzman Group, which represented the previous owners in negotiations.

"The center now has the draw of Mi Cocina, and a renovation could help play off of the center's pluses and work to attract retailers and shoppers."

[rantanamo]

The rail station is already built. :D The money is there area development will start as soon as zoning is taken care of and the plan is formally presented to residences at the town hall meeting. The area has lots of empty land around the station and there are apartment on the other part. The land is a “perfect location” easy access to the freeways hint.** The plan is already finished. It is a very large development and for the most part the infrastructure is already built. Construction would begin sooner than you think, less than a year. This plan has been in the works for a long time now and most residents and people in the LHAIA know which station it is. Also construction will start within the next few weeks on the Shopping Center on Kingsley/Skillman.

but again, where is this to be located? Around the LBJ/Skillman station?

[jsoto3]

I don't know if we (RTKL) are involved with the project now, but a couple of months ago I saw a plan of what I believe was this project. It was at a new station along Skillman and White Rock Creek, between White Rock Station and LBJ/Skillman Station. It looked good. Larchlion will know if we are still involved. Also, I noticed that Raleigh has put a new 'Lake Highlands Station' on his future DART map:
http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showpost.php?p=28231&postcount=11

[gc]

Very cool. I am not sure how I missed all this but obviously I have. I too am a little confused about the exact location here.

[rantanamo]

I'm guessing from the freeway access and lots of empty land they do mean LBJ/Skillman station.

[LakeHighlands]

I'm guessing from the freeway access and lots of empty land they do mean LBJ/Skillman station.
:D

I know the location of the new development, but I do not want to say which station it is because apartment property owners are not fully aware of these plans. There is only one station it could be and Rantanamo may have mentioned the station. Think how close Mockingbird Station is to Central, this one is just about the same distance from the freeway. Ok, I have done just about everything except flat out say the name of the station.

The other new station that they want to build is going to be on the corner of Skillman and Kingsley. There are 2 apartment complexes on the property they want to build that station on. I am against the building of this rail station. I think rail stations are wonderful but we have 4 in Lake Highlands already, 2 on blue, and 2 on red. There is not enough density in the area to support a fifth station. At the same time the density in LH will be declining because of the decrease in apartments. LBJ/Skillman and White Rock Station may seem far apart but are not. I can get to either one in less than 5 mins and I still haven’t figure out which is closer to me. They seem equal distance. Also this will be a very expensive station to build because of the terrain. The steep hills on the north and northeast would mean it would have to face Skillman. I am talking greater than 60 degree angle due east. The White Rock Forest is on the west, so nothing can be built on it. Also access into the station would be poor from Skillman. The station would be on the other side of a creek, which would mean bridges would have to be built to get to the station. Right now the apartments have bridges that cross the creek, but I wouldn’t dare drive across them because of the poor condition of these bridges. Also because of the steep hills, no one would be able to see the station from the street. I will try to take some photos of the area so you can see what I’m talking about. The building of Skillman/ Kingsley station does not make economic sense. The reason the station wasn’t built with the blue line is because residents in LH could not make up their mind on which side of Skillman/Kingsley they wanted a station built or if they wanted one at all.

[rantanamo]

I don't know the economic costs but it sounds right that another station isn't needed. Especially if apts are going down. I would say that LBJ/ Skillman is a one of the busiest stations during the course of a day. Most are busy only at rush hour.

I always wondered what was up with all of that land around it. I have always expected a developer to snatch it up and build some TOD, though I thought they were waiting for the LBJ renovations to be completed there. Excellent spot for a Mockingbird Station type development. Lots of people. Lots of visibility. Lots of people in that area, though as you said there will be teardowns. If only we could get something done in DT Garland. They are having a heck of time convincing current industrials to take incentives to go west and let them rezone the DT area. Garland, slow as usual.

[freewaytincan]

By the way, it's there, on the northeast corner of Kingsley and Skillman. The blue line is on the far right, and that shopping center that was briefly mentioned is directly across the street on the far left.

http://www.dfwmaps.com/index.asp?ExtentLeft=2509125&ExtentRight=2512378&ExtentTop=7009580.2038778&ExtentBottom=7006326.6001222&idCmd=&buffer=&x1=87&x2=457&y1=116&y2=383&tool=zoombox&click.x=272&click.y=249.5&Requests=on&selectpt.x=&selectpt.y=&selectpt.stat=&Address=&CityZip=&Label=&Aerial03=on&Cmd=ZoomIn&msize=large&mapTheme=dfwmaps&mapOption=Regional_Features

[LakeHighlands]

Thanks Urban.
This is what I should have posted earlier, but I was busy. The second Picture is an aerial view of the proposed rail station. The blue line in the photos is the Dart Blue Line. The property outline in red is the Skillman/Kingsley Station and urban development planned for the future. The yellow outline across the street is the shopping center that will be redeveloped in the next few weeks. (See photo in next post). This site look perfect from the air, but wait until one see it from the ground!!!

The first and third picture shows the property from 2 different ends. There are a lot of tall trees on that property. The second picture is looking towards the creek which is half way between the properties. These are large properties covering about 20 acres together.

The 4th and 5th picture is of the bridge and creek. The trees block the creek.

The 6th and 7th picture shows the steep elevation by the proposed station. The elevation is so steep that the only way to the new development is from Skillman and across a bridge. There are many changes in elevation on this property. It is built in a valley, very high to the east, bottoms out at the creek and high to the west. Also extremely high to the South and high to the north.


The 8th and 10th picture show the overview of part of the property taken from Kingsley Road. As you can see the road is higher than the two level building below. Too high to build a road, plus that is only the middle of the hill. Kingsley Road keeps getting higher to the east. The property will be redeveloped up stopping at the peach apartments. All the apartments in the foreground will be the new development. The Peach Apartments “Huntington Lakes” sort of surround the development to a point. (West and north side).

Finally the 9th picture is the length of the development on Kinsley Road. The proposed Station Development stretches from where the picture was taken to the traffic light in the background or Skillman. The other development is across the street.

One word to describe this development, “EXPENSIVE!!” Only a very dense development at this site could make back the money spent to develop it.

Imagine a development like “Mockingbird Station” with a creek, tall trees, hills and lots of changes in elevation. Nice, but expensive.

[LakeHighlands]

Here’s a picture of what the redeveloped shopping center will look like (across the street from the proposed Skillman/Kingsley Station). There are also plans to redevelop the Intersection of Audelia/Kingsley which already has a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market. One apartment Complex on that corner will also be torn down. In the near future 2 major developments will start, then 2 more major developments; Audelia/Kingsley is later and then the Skillman/Kinsley Station is a little ways in the future. All of this is in less than a 2 mile radius.

[jsoto3]

Thanks for posting those photos. You're right, it would be very difficult. Although, it did look like Kingsley might dip low enough near the creek so that you can access the site right there in the middle, with two small roads flanking the creek. Perhaps not.

It was interesting to see your map of where the station and development are proposed because the plan I saw here in our office showed it all to the south of Kingsley. It was probably just a study of where it might be able to go, but was passed on.

[LakeHighlands]

Thanks for posting those photos. You're right, it would be very difficult. Although, it did look like Kingsley might dip low enough near the creek so that you can access the site right there in the middle, with two small roads flanking the creek. Perhaps not.

It was interesting to see your map of where the station and development are proposed because the plan I saw here in our office showed it all to the south of Kingsley. It was probably just a study of where it might be able to go, but was passed on.

Your Welcome

It was changed because the residence did not want traffic using White Rock Trail and that road can not be expanded and can not handle any sort of heavy traffic. White Rock Trail is very hilly and not level anywhere. Also south of Kingsley Road and west of the rail line is the forest (see photo). I pity any developer that thinks he can cut down those trees. (Also residents are happy because apartments get torn down since station is now moved to the north.)

Taken from a planning document:

“Staff made two major suggestions to try and connect the issues that have been highlighted in past meetings to the land use analysis done for this meeting. These two are potential land use changes that will be considered in the recommendations phase of the plan. The first is to make the Skillman/Audelia/I635 intersection the “heart” of District 10 and the Lake Highlands area. The substantial revisions expected in this area offer an opportunity to radically alter this area and make it a vibrant and distinctive center for northeast Dallas. The second is a recommendation to move the future Kingsley station from the south side of Kingsley and the east side of the rail line, to the north side of Kingsley and the west side of the rail line. This provides better access for commuters from Skillman, while offering a better chance for development to take advantage of the station.”

[JSteffen]

gosh LH.... I didnt know anyone was up reading the boards w/ me..... thanks for keeping me company.... LOL... great post guys......

One question..... The rederings of the shopping center maki it look like Mi Cocina was changing... or moving.... something of the sort.... Currently it is detached..... I didnt know that MiCo (Micheal Rodriguez) had any plans to do anything of the sort.... But very cool if he desides to go along w/ it....

[LakeHighlands]

...

[hamiltonpl]

Here’s a picture of what the redeveloped shopping center will look like (across the street from the proposed Skillman/Kingsley Station). There are also plans to redevelop the Intersection of Audelia/Kingsley which already has a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market. One apartment Complex on that corner will also be torn down. In the near future 2 major developments will start, then 2 more major developments; Audelia/Kingsley is later and then the Skillman/Kinsley Station is a little ways in the future. All of this is in less than a 2 mile radius.


That rendering just looks like a strip mall to me. Am I missing something?

[drumguy8800]

That rendering just looks like a strip mall to me. Am I missing something?

yuck

mockingbird station? try frisco.

[clipper]

Steve Brown's Friday column said:

Lake Highlands project


The buzz in Lake Highlands isn't just about prospects for the Wildcats football team or worries about TXU tree trimmers.
The chatter along White Rock Creek is about the word that the Northeast Dallas neighborhood may be getting an Uptown-style development.
Fort Worth-based Trademark Cos. – one of the state's biggest shopping center developers – is in negotiations to buy apartment buildings on the east side of Skillman Street near Kingsley.
Trademark – with the backing of neighborhood council member Bill Blaydes – wants to replace the aging rental units with a 46-acre retail and residential complex built around a new DART light-rail station.
The redevelopment – which is being designed by award-winning architects RTKL – would be similar to other transit-themed mixed-use projects that have sprung up in Dallas and Plano.
And it's just across the street from where investor Charter Holdings plans to renovate the mostly vacant Kingsley Square shopping center.

[rantanamo]

That's not one of the mixed-use area they are talking about. That's a nearby strip-mall that's gonna be renovated.

[tamtagon]

Well, I'm just glad another DART station will be surrounded by a heavy dose of retail. As consumer purchasing opportunities are increased along the rail system, the city becomes a more liveable place. It's out of my radar range, but at some point rail TOD venues will compete with other TOD businesses, as novelty visitation is replaced comparason shopping. Before you know it, CBD residents experience a more convenient lifestyle relying on the train more than a car.

[aceplace]

Well, I'm just glad another DART station will be surrounded by a heavy dose of retail. As consumer purchasing opportunities are increased along the rail system, the city becomes a more liveable place. It's out of my radar range, but at some point rail TOD venues will compete with other TOD businesses, as novelty visitation is replaced comparason shopping. Before you know it, CBD residents experience a more convenient lifestyle relying on the train more than a car.True... the more retail and residential opportunity there is on the rail lines, the more people make casual errands on the train, which increases the demand for more retail, which...

[tamtagon]

Monitoring the change in Dallas culture prompted by efficient public transportation is one of the most fascinating activities to me. While I would like more rapid system expansion, TOD one station at a time provides a wider spectrum of public reaction.

[LakeHighlands]

One question..... The rederings of the shopping center maki it look like Mi Cocina was changing... or moving.... something of the sort.... Currently it is detached..... I didnt know that MiCo (Micheal Rodriguez) had any plans to do anything of the sort.... But very cool if he desides to go along w/ it....


From the plans I saw Mi Cocina will be moving to the old Fidelity bank location in the shopping center. Eckerd’s which will become CVS will move to the corner of Skillman and Kingsley where MiCocina is located right now.

[LakeHighlands]

That rendering just looks like a strip mall to me. Am I missing something?


That rendering is not the urban development but the redevelopment of an existing shopping center which is across the street from the proposed Skillman/Kingsley station. When all the plans are finalized I will post more information on the station development. Right now things are changing on daily basics. There are two rail developments in the works right now for the area. One will built now and one later on in the future. There is a lot of cost analysis and many more issues going on to see which station development makes more sense. Both will result in the lost of many apartment complexes.

New Information:
I have an updated map on the Skillman//Kingsley Station development. Look for all the apartments from Skillman/Kingsley south to the end of district 10 to be torn down. About 50 acres of those properties will be the rail development. The rest would likely become a park, single family homes, condos, etc. Anything but new apartments.

One Map is a close up of the proposed station and the second map is the station and all the apartments that will be torn down.

Blue Line= DART Blue Line

Red Outline = the Skillman/Kingsley Station Urban Development

Yellow Outline = the redevelopment of the Shopping Center Kingsley Square.

Purple Outline = the other apartments that will be torn down, but we are not sure what will replace them.

[LakeHighlands]

On a side note

I attended a meeting which had representatives from the 40 Neighborhood associations that made up District 10 and Lake Highlands. There are a lot of changes going on and I will post the information tomorrow. Also the mood, attitude, and feelings of the overwhelming majority of Lake Highlands residents have me distress and concern. There are a lot of things that will happen that the typically “urban” person might disagree with. I am simply giving out information, so do not take the things I type as my view. (I will clearly state my opinion). I may not agree with everything, but I will support the community.

[tamtagon]

Red Outline = the Kingsley/Skillman Station Development



That looks huge! The trees are very nice.

[LakeHighlands]

That looks huge! The trees are very nice.

And that is only one of the 2 rail developments.

Yes, close to 50 acres, but the only way to make this development work is to make it large and dense. More than 80% of the cost of the project will be in the 20 acres north of Kingsley. The part with all the hills, a creek, and steep slopes. (That creek will cost $$$$$ to fix up.) The other 26 acres will help balance the project.

A total of 7 large apartment complexes will be torn down in that area. Skillman-Kingsley

[gc]

On a side note

I attended a meeting which had representatives from the 40 Neighborhood associations that made up District 10 and Lake Highlands. There are a lot of changes going on and I will post the information tomorrow. Also the mood, attitude, and feelings of the overwhelming majority of Lake Highlands residents have me distress and concern. There are a lot of things that will happen that the typically “urban” person might disagree with. I am simply giving out information, so do not take the things I type as my view. (I will clearly state my opinion). I may not agree with everything, but I will support the community.

Please give us some examples LakeHighlands. What is so concerning? I have a few thoughts but would like to hear from you first.

Anyways, that will be a huge development. Have you been able to access renderings of the proposals yet, other than the strip mall? I'd really like to see what is in store.

[mikedsjr]

Sorry for a stupid question, but was there a Lake Highlands town awhile back? How did the name Lake Highlands come to be?

[Columbus Civil]

I would think gentrification would be a big concern. Property values might increase enough to displace some residents.

[mikedsjr]

CC, I would think that's true and thus creates a "suburb" like condition around there. Correct?

[clipper]

In the case of Lake Highlands while there were several small communities out there, the name was a creation of real estate developers. It's not like say Vickery which had a little town there at Park and Greenville.

[LakeHighlands]

Sorry for a stupid question, but was there a Lake Highlands town awhile back? How did the name Lake Highlands come to be?


The original Lake Highlands addition was developed on a peninsula that juts out into White Rock Lake. Dallas County records show that plat for the addition was filed by W. McCarthy Moore, president of the Lake Highlands co., on June 2, 1927. He bought the land from Geo. W. Jalonick Sr. Alex F. Weisberg accepted the filling as chairman of the City Plan Commission.
There were six phases in the addition with the horseshoe-shaped Lake Highlands Drive forming the outer boundary. The first 23-lot phases were bordered by Lake Highlands Drive, Peninsula and Luna. The perimeter lots of this and the adjoining phases have an unobstructed view of the lake.

More than likely, then Name Lake Highlands was derived from its proximity to White Rock Lake. As the neighborhood blossomed in a northeasterly direction in the 50’s and 60’s, it didn’t tap it strength from the lake.

Rather, home buyers were attracted by the Richardson school system. The RISD limits begin just north of Northwest Hwy at Shoreview and go east to Hackney. Residents of “old” Lake Highlands were always served by DISD.

As Lake Highlands was being developed, the land planner terms—master planned community or planned united development--- hadn’t come into vogue. Nonetheless, as each addition came on the market, each developer picked up the names Lake Highlands.

For many decades the area was separated from Dallas proper by the White Rock Flood Plains. This allowed the area to grow and establish its own identity for years. Various neighbor hood associations have always been fighting the Dallas over zoning. Especially in the 70’s and 80s.

Also something major that has happened since 2000 is that all of the neighborhood association in District 10 (Lake Highlands) have come together and formed one that manages the whole area. They elect officials and it operate like a city council. It represents the 30,000 individual homes in the area. It is powerful and is getting more and more powerful everyday.

Usually when an area joins a city it loses it identity and become more like the city. The exact opposite is happening in Lake Highlands, every year the area is becoming more dissociated with the rest of Dallas. The Lake Highlands area is leaning more and more to operating like its own city.

[freewaytincan]

Usually when an area joins a city it loses it identity and become more like the city. The exact opposite is happening in Lake Highlands, every year the area is becoming more dissociated with the rest of Dallas. The Lake Highlands area is leaning more and more to operating like its own city.

And hopefully, it will do just that; become it's own city.

[LakeHighlands]

Please give us some examples LakeHighlands. What is so concerning? I have a few thoughts but would like to hear from you first.

Anyways, that will be a huge development. Have you been able to access renderings of the proposals yet, other than the strip mall? I'd really like to see what is in store.


The mood, feeling and attitudes of the overwhelming majority of the residents in Lake Highlands are not going to be liked by most people on this forum. I am posting what going on in this area because it is part of Dallas and the future actions by the residents of this area could impact Dallas forever.

Like I said I went to a meeting that had representatives from the 40 home owner associations that represented District 10 Lake Highlands. (Out of the 100 people representing the 40 homeowner associations, there was not one minority present). The information that I learned and way the residents feel have me concerned.

A little background information: on Lake Highlands in District 10 only

LH home owners are almost all white. 61% of them are between the ages of 30-50. 35% over the age 50 and 4% under the age29

62% have household income of $100,000 or more, of that 42% have $150,000 or more, of that 13% of residents have household income of $200,000 Fastest growing in the area is the $200,000 plus

57% of residences have lived in the area for 10 years of more, and of that 40% lived in the area more than 15 years

79% sent their kids to public school

72% of residents will not leave Lake Highlands ( NO WHITE FLIGHT)

Non Home owners Apartments:

There are 125 Apartments Complexes in LH (This will soon change drastically).


95% of LH apartment’s renters are minorities

WHOLE AREA

There is an imbalance between renters and homeowners 67 percent of residents rent their home in apartments
Despite that the annual income for the whole area is $100,118.


Apartments are getting older and attracting poorer residents while new homes are getting more expensive. (Starting at 500,000). There are now new homes in the area that if put on the market would sell for over a million dollars.

Can anyone see the major problem going on in this area? My next post will state what residents are doing about the situation and how it is going to affect Dallas.

[Lakewooder]

One can see how the Anglos are freaking out in LH, since most of them originally moved there in a wave of 'White Flight"

Lake Highlands High

<TABLE borderColor=#ebebeb cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center border=1><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#ebebeb colSpan=2>Students by Ethnicity

Source: TEA Annual Performance Report 2002-2003
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>African-American



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy vAlign=bottom><SCRIPT>var original=0.329var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>32.9 %</TD><TR><TD>Hispanic



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT language="">var original=0.122var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>12.2 %</TD><TR vAlign=center><TD>Asian/Pacific Islander



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.039var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>3.9 %</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD>Native American



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.003var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>0.3 %</TD><TR><TD>White



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.508var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>50.8 % </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Lake Highlands Freshman Center

<TABLE borderColor=#ebebeb cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center border=1><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#ebebeb colSpan=2>Students by Ethnicity

Source: TEA Annual Performance Report 2002-2003
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>African-American



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy vAlign=bottom><SCRIPT>var original=0.409var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>40.9 %</TD><TR><TD>Hispanic



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT language="">var original=0.154var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>15.4 %</TD><TR vAlign=center><TD>Asian/Pacific Islander



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.03var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>3 %</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD>Native American



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.005var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>0.5 %</TD><TR><TD>White



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.403var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>40.3 %</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Lake Highlands Junior High

<TABLE borderColor=#ebebeb cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center border=1><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#ebebeb colSpan=2>Students by Ethnicity

Source: TEA Annual Performance Report 2002-2003
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>African-American



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy vAlign=bottom><SCRIPT>var original=0.42var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>42 %</TD><TR><TD>Hispanic



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT language="">var original=0.179var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>17.9 %</TD><TR vAlign=center><TD>Asian/Pacific Islander



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.01var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>1 %</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD>Native American



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.005var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>0.5 %</TD><TR><TD>White



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.385var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>38.5 % </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Forest Meadow Junior High

<TABLE borderColor=#ebebeb cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center border=1><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#ebebeb colSpan=2>Students by Ethnicity

Source: TEA Annual Performance Report 2002-2003
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>African-American



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy vAlign=bottom><SCRIPT>var original=0.51var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>51 %</TD><TR><TD>Hispanic



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT language="">var original=0.156var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>15.6 %</TD><TR vAlign=center><TD>Asian/Pacific Islander



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.042var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>4.2 %</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD>Native American



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.002var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>0.2 %</TD><TR><TD>White



</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.29var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>29 %</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

And "SHADES" of things to come:

Lake Highlands Elementary

<TABLE borderColor=#ebebeb cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center border=1><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#ebebeb colSpan=2>Students by Ethnicity
Source: TEA Annual Performance Report 2002-2003</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>African-American

</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy vAlign=bottom><SCRIPT>var original=0.34var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>34 %</TD><TR><TD>Hispanic

</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT language="">var original=0.347var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>34.7 %</TD><TR vAlign=center><TD>Asian/Pacific Islander

</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.018var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>1.8 %</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD>Native American

</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.006var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>0.6 %</TD><TR><TD>White

</TD><TD class=paragraph-copy><SCRIPT>var original=0.289var result=Math.round(original * 1000) / 10document.open();document.write(result)document.c lose();original=""result=""</SCRIPT>28.9 %</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Notice the Hispanics are increasing exponentially in the lower grades and will soon be dominant, as is the case in most area districts. Even if the Anglo or White population doesn't evacuate, the percentage will drop dramatically.

[gc]

Yep, I knew it was race. That is truly a shame.

[LakeHighlands]

One can see how the Anglos are freaking out in LH, since most of them originally moved there in a wave of 'White Flight"


Notice the Hispanics are increasing exponentially in the lower grades and will soon be dominant, as is the case in most area districts. Even if the Anglo or White population doesn't evacuate, the percentage will drop dramatically.

For the last decade or so theses numbers have been the same in LH area. There are more minorities in elementary schools than the high school. There are also a lot of minorities in the junior high. But, at the high school, it has always had a white majority. There are several reasons for this; first there are large percentages of white people that send their kinds to the numerous private schools for elementary and junior high. When they kids get to 10th grade (which is high school in RISD) parents enroll them there. Also by the senior year at LHHS, classes are close to 75% white because many of the Hispanics and blacks have either dropped out or when to school in another district. That explains the drop in minorities at the high school level. As far as more minorities going into the schools in the area, look for that to stop as there will be 50 less apartments in the area in the next few years. It will be replaced by condos, homes, urban developments that do not have apartments in them. There are a lot of changes going on in this area.

[freewaytincan]

Yep, I knew it was race. That is truly a shame.

I remember everyone called it "Forest Ghetto" Junior High. It's sad.

[Lakewooder]

Hamilton Park has always been black and is mostly single family. For those who don't know, Hamilton Park was 'created' as a North Dallas haven for African Americans.

LH may be headed for trouble on this apartment 'eradication' - as you stated, there were virtually no minorities in on this plan. It can easily be seen as a way to 'rid' the area of diversity, with the usual cries of racism (remember the make-up of the Dallas City Council and those who see every issue through the lense of race). So if zoning or planning changes are needed, you are going to have to be extremely sensitive to this fact.

Personally, I think it's unfortunate that some of the most beautiful parts of LH are surrounded by dilapidated apartments - as is the case with Vickery Meadows. Ownership is much better for the city as a whole.

I hope the developers of the new 'station' will take into account and preserve the natural beauty of the area. I'm wondering how they will be able to do that in an urban density situation.

It's a bit ironic that you (LH) are sounding like the parents in many DISD schools when trying to explain the racial balance dynamics. I know we have the same situation here in Lakewood at Woodrow Wilson High -- a lot of people go directly there from private schools. But we have only about 10% African American, and the census figures show a significant drop in that group in East Dallas. And we have basically only two public feeder schools (Lakewood and Stonewall Jackson -- and Robert E. Lee may some day, as it is 'tear-down' central) that have a critical mass of Anglos. From what I've researched, there are only a few high schools with any Anglos in DISD, most around 20-30%, which has remained steady for a decade or so: Woodrow, Bryan Adams, Hillcrest and W.T. White. At those schools, too, the senior classes have a much larger Anglo population because of drop-outs, etc. Also you can have the same number of Anglos, but the huge Hispanic influx will decrease the percentages, as I stated previously.

Anyhow, it's hard to explain to outsiders, especially when it comes to having affluent Anglo kids in AP classes going to Ivy League colleges, while some students in the same school are almost illiterate (at least in English).

[Milkman Dan]

I had to register just to get in on this thread. A little background on me: 20-something who grew up in Lake Highlands, went away for 5 years to college, and returned several years ago back to LH. I know this area very well, as well as the leaders who represent it. Now...

I personally find LakeHighlands' statements to be too acerbic and not representative of many of Lake Highlands' resident's actual views. Lake Highlands has always been a very diverse, inclusive community. Having attended public school all of my life, I know firsthand the varied cultures which are represented in our neighborhood, and I consider myself lucky to have grown up in such an environment. Many of the "minority" friends I had in elementary school I was still good friends with in high school. (and still am) Lake Highlands does not have a race problem between blacks and whites or any other group for that matter. LakeHighlands' position that overall we are seeking to stem the tide of minorities moving to the neighborhood is embarassing to someone who has deep ties to the area. That all said, LH DOES have some major issues.

The real issue that needs to be addressed (and IS being addressed, although not because of race) is the apartment situation. District 10 is simply bursting with them. Built 20-30 years ago with young professionals and small families just starting out in mind, many are now in poor condition and the young professionals are tending to want to live closer to downtown. (Generally) Over time, these apartments have changed hands numerous times and at many points were owned by companies in far-away places who didn't give much of a thought to renting out to less-than-qualified residents (criminal backgrounds, no ID, etc..) when the markets went south. Therefore, crime began to flourish in the apartment complexes and spread out from them into the surrounding residential neighborhoods (all in very close proximity to another).

Regarding the demographic of the typical apartment resident, yes they are overwhelmingly minority. The reasons for this are varied and controversial and I am actually uninterested in getting into a sociological discussion on it, but overall the bottom line is: District 10 has got to do some major restructuring of this residential / apartment mix. It is more out of proportion than any other district in Dallas. I am 100% in favor of this restructuring- the police are spread entirely too thin to keep up with the crime that spreads from some of these apartments, the property values for homeowners have been affected (the ones who fund the schools), and criminality has become somewhat commonplace in certain areas. All of this discussion on tearing down some complexes has been going on for years now and is nothing new to residents who have lived there for a long time. To say that LH residents are sick of the minorities and the crime they breed however is a laughable, ignorant, and disturbing statement. To say that Lake Highlands is overburdened with apartments and is desperate for a solution is correct.

Those residents of apartments who are involved with and care deeply about the schools, lifestyle and LH community in general will have no problem finding a place to live and raise their family in a great neighborhood. Those residents of apartments who are only looking for victims of robbery, burgulary and violence will have a very difficult time remaining in a more tight-knit, vigilant community. This is the hope at least.

Forgive the misspellings and stream-of-conciousness style. Perhaps my passion for the community outweighs my writing ability.

[LakeHighlands]

Things I learn from the meeting and things that concern me.

Unlike other areas in Dallas the residents of Lake Highlands are not going to move to Plano, Frisco, Park Cities, etc. 72% will stay right here. The residents will fight for their neighborhood and have found that one governing body representing the whole area is very strong and can produce a lot of changes. They are fighting back to reclaim the area and get the apartments out. This creates a lot of problem when it comes to race and social economic issues. What I also learned is the overwhelming majority of residents in LH have views that are similar to the people in Plano, Frisco, and University Park not the views of people in Uptown per say. The mood I got is that the association is extremely anti multi family and the city of Dallas does not have the power it once had to go in the area and have anything built. Before it had to fight maybe a few hundred of those residents, now it has over 30,000 individual households to answer to if the city tries to do anything. Since the LHAIA formed 3 years ago the City has done a lot to work with the area. The City of Dallas is finally getting rid of apartments now because of intense pressure.

I saw lots of documentation and know from personal experience that the apartments in the area are a problem. I also know it is about to be fixed. There are 125 apartments in Lake Highlands and that number will be brought to 75 in the next 3 years. There are 67% renters and 33% homeowners in the area, this will create a 50% balance between them. As far as political power, it will render the apartments close to zero. Once these apartments are replaced with more affluent homes it will only continue the problem of the “us” versus “them” which the LHAIA is trying to fix. There will only be more pressure to get the apartment number down.

What surprised me is the power that the one association has in LH and how over the last 3 years it staring to turn into its own government. It has expanded every year and now it going to united District 10 and District 9. District 9 has many of the same concerns as the residents in LH and part of LH is in District 9. White Rock Lake and Lakewood are very similar to LH. For the most part this is a suburban type area in the city. There are already neighborhood associations in District 9 that are part of the big association that represents District 10 and Lake Highlands.

(I hope my house does not get burned down after I type this).

With that said, I believe that the residents in LH are being little bit selfish. Look at LH, district 10; it is kept up better than any other district in the city. I remember the DMN had an article about Dallas streets and District 10 and 12 had the best streets in the city. While District 12 is new, District 10 is very old, yet has very good streets. A great example is Skillman. When a person drives North on Skillman the street is tar, bumpy and old, but as soon as it crosses into district 10 it turns into cement with light strips and not paint strips for lanes. The street is also landscaped with tress in the median. Look at the recreation centers in LH and how they are kept up. I have seen many in Dallas and the LHN one is the best in the city. LH has 2 Olympic size swimming pools in the city parks. It is the only district in the city with two and one of the few areas that gets to keep its pool in operation. LH has direct access to more parks than any other area in the city. LH has White Rock Lake the whole WR bike trail, Flag Pole Hill, parks everywhere, yet residents complain there are not enough parks. (I’m like huh? Look around you). Residents also want more reaction centers, an aquatic center a new bike trail, a new public library. The Audelia Public Library in Lake Highlands was just remodeled. The residents want more and more. Both the Lake Highlands High School and Junior High are being renovated and expanded too. I listened to the residents and they made a great case of things Dallas can do better, but I’m like what about the rest of Dallas.

But look at south Dallas, west Dallas and other areas of the city that do not even get to have a fraction of what the residents have here. They would be happy if Dallas would fix the streets in some of these areas. But then again those areas to not have the “Plano type residents living there.” (By that I mean loud, they are always complaining about Wal-Mart)Also LH has always been a loud community. (Just go to the DMN archives and search LH and apartments). The only thing that is different now is that LH is united under one voice which can be one of the worst things for the city of Dallas.

THIS IS WHAT TROUBLED ME THE MOST FROM THE MEETING

There is a growing and growing attitude from the residents in LH that the city of Dallas is not doing enough. The city was present and told them all the things the city will do to help LH, including axing apartments. Residents are not happy with Dallas crime situation; they are upset up the length of time police take to respond to calls and police not showing up. They are upset with the code department for not responding to their concerns. The city said it will do its best but there are bigger problems in the city that take prior of someone grass being too high in LH. I understand that, but the majority of the people have grown tired and fed up with the city “slow” responses. The associated is getting more powerful and it represents the voice of LH and that voice has me concerned.

I am extremely worried that there will come a day soon that the residents in this area no longer feel that they will benefit from being part of the city of Dallas. This is not as very hard to do under Texas law. Instead of people just picking up their belongings and moving to Plano, etc (which will not happen) like others areas of Dallas, they will pick up the whole community and change cities.

The city hopes (I hope) that getting rid of the apartments will solve this problem. Less crime etc and residents might be happy enough to keep things they way they are.

As far as urban development goes the only urban development would be by the rail stations, and the only reason it is dense and urban, is that apartments will be torn down. Do not look for any single family homes to be torn down for anything but bigger single family homes.

After I left the meeting, I felt ill.

I also started to think maybe Dallas is too large and the city can not adequately address the needs of all the citizens within its boundaries. Maybe Dallas should focus on urban Dallas and give up suburban Dallas.
Maybe Dallas should have listened to the residents of LH decades ago.
I do not know what to think. I just wished the situation in this area never reached the point it did.
I blame bad city zoning for this and hope Dallas can fix it before it is too late for Dallas to fix it.

[LakeHighlands]

I personally find LakeHighlands' statements to be too acerbic and not representative of many of Lake Highlands' resident's actual views. Lake Highlands does not have a race problem between blacks and whites or any other group for that matter. LakeHighlands' position that overall we are seeking to stem the tide of minorities moving to the neighborhood is embarassing to someone who has deep ties to the area. That all said, LH DOES have some major issues.



I never said LH has a race problem, the area does not. I know the area is not trying to stem the tide of minorities moving to the area as long as they move into a house. But the apartments are the problem and no one can deny the fact that over 90% of homeowners are white while 90% of apartment residents are minorities. (There are a lot of good people in those apartments, but there are a lot of bad.) This may make it look like a race issue but it is not, it is more a class and society difference. Crime is not coming from the homes; it is coming from those apartments. The views I expressed in my previous post are from the association which represents all 40 neighborhood association in LH.

FYI I believe diversity is great other wise I would be living in Preston Hollow or University Park (I just do not like HP) instead of Lake Highlands. I can build a home in either one of those areas but I chose LH. I want my kids to go to school in LH and not a private school or Highland Park Schools.

[bloodandpopcorn]

Wow. I didn't realize that LH people were so arrogant (No offense Milkman and LH, I'm not talking about you, just about those examples LH gave)! I kind of agree, LH, that Dallas should try to focus more on urban dallas and less on suburban Dallas. Having to put up with sprawled (though beautiful) areas like LH and keep up with the demands of people who probably can put money or take money away from various politicians' offices hurts other parts of the city.

Maybe Dallas should give them a slap in the face while it's not too late. The city should still have more power than a neighborhood organization, am I right?

Anyway, this project overall sounds good. And a 50-50 balance between ownership and rental doesn't sound too bad to me. If the apartments are such a problem, at least putting ownership on even footing with rentership isn't a bad thing, IMO.

There are people in all parts of Dallas that want police to come to fix unimportant problems in their area before critical situations in other parts of the city, but LH, do you really think there are that many more in your area? Maybe that's just the vocal group?

[tamtagon]

Once these apartments are replaced with more affluent homes it will only continue the problem of the “us” versus “them” which the LHAIA is trying to fix. There will only be more pressure to get the apartment number down.

Actually, this makes sense (more single family homes, not continued Us v. Them problems).

Within Dallas city limits, all transitional areas full of aging apartments complexes edging affluent, well established neighborhoods will eventually become extentions of the established neighborhoods. Dallas' satellite communities (Mesquite, Richardson, Garland, Plano, Frisco etc.) essentially furnish starter homes for families beginning the rise in wealth. When they can afford more convenient neighborhoods - anything South of LBJ - they make the move. There are not enough big fancy houses in Dallas. Look it, Skillman/Kingsley area is the perfect spot to grow affluent Dallas single family neighborhood: close proximity to other rich-folks, Lake Highlands is one of the pretty parts of town with untapped equity, it's on DART's rail system, acers of apartments are beyond cost effective rennovation. This is will be the fate of most apartment complexes in North Central Dallas County.

[LakeHighlands]

There are people in all parts of Dallas that want police to come to fix unimportant problems in their area before critical situations in other parts of the city, but LH, do you really think there are that many more in your area? Maybe that's just the vocal group?

That would be the case if this was one homeowner association like "Joe a Homes Association". In 2000 a group formed with a limited number of associations. It has grown to encompass all of District 10 Lake Highlands and is now adding home owner associations in District 9.

Here is how it is set up. Each home owner association (HOA) elects people that lead them, Examples (White Rock Valley, Merriman Park North, Highland Hills, etc.) there are 40 in LH. At the large meeting each association send their elected leader to voice the concerns of their neighborhood. (I do not think there was one person under 30 and I did not see one minority.)

At the large meeting or the one large association the leaders of eachof the individual 40 associations elects who runs the one large association. There is a president of the one large association which is like a mayor.

I can compare it to sort of like the U.S. government. Each area of the country elects a house member; each HOA in LH elects a leader. Each state has 2 senators, well in this association, the leaders of the home owner association elects the leaders of the one big association. Also everyone has a say in who should be the president of the association. It is getting more and more powerful.

So this is not one or two or five, but this meeting represented the whole area. (All 40) There are people like me that might disagree with some of their views, but not enough.