Future Dart map

[raleighs]

Hello all, well I've been working on this map for awhile, and please tell me what you think... (I still need to add the parking icons to the stations... and a few more things) Sorry for the word 'Prototype' over it.

I haven't added the future commuter rail lines that's possible in northern Dallas County yet... I don't have much info on that.

[jsoto3]

Incredible! Beautiful map! You should pitch your services to DART.

[pariah]

very nice, thats probably asa close to a tollway line as we will ever see, send it to DART

[rantanamo]

awesome

[drumguy8800]

You need not forget Routh St. Station, in between Cityplace and Pearl. And.. did you just think up that northern extention of the purple line, or is that somehow.. reality? Cause if that's reality, that's fricking awesome. yehaw. And if you want info on possible future commuter lines and/or future DART lines.. visit NCTCOG's website.. I'm sure you already have.. but if you haven't, its dfwinfo.com. they have tons of information on future rail. Your map is by far the best DART map i have ever seen. Also, don't forget to put an Airport symbol next to Red Bird. I'm sure.. well, not really sure.. but.. they may make a spur down through Dallas Executive, if the red line is ever extended that far south.

[raleighs]

Thanks All!

Yeah, that map is my more advanced one... I have a current map, but I wanted to show the futuristic one. Maybe I should show DART. :o

Routh St. Station!? Hmmm... running out of room for downtown stations!
And, I'll have to make a totally new map if I want the 2nd line going through southern downtown. :eek3:
(-Red Bird Airport icon added.)

Also what are they naming the 2nd Walnut Hill station on the Orange line? (There can be only one!)

Raleigh

[freewaytincan]

That's incredible! And remember, the old Cotton Belt line is DART's, if I'm not mistaken. It runs right between Addison TC and Addison Circle, and from Fort Worth all the way past Plano.

[Geaux Tigers]

Awesome map. Maybe one day the DART/T rail map will look like this:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/images/zone_big.jpg

[raleighs]

Gesh, I didn't want to exactly copy London's map, but I wanted the simplicity, 45 degree angles.

DART's current map looks badly drawn:
(Bad angles, stretched and more. IMHO.)
http://www.dart.org/images/DARTRailSystemDec02.gif

I would love to see DART have as many stations as 'The Tube' someday.

Maybe I'll come up with a London looking tube map for Dallas that's WAY in the future... say 2100... and have stations EVERYWHERE. (light rail, commuter rail, heavy rail, bullet trains, pneumatic tubes... )
Hmmm... that might get some people to think... (I remember a map that someone did with a stations about every few blocks in the whole county. Huge Grid! HA!)

Pneumatic tube map of Dallas! HA! :D

Raleigh

[gc]

That is a great map.

[raleighs]

Ok, I added the 'Brown' commuter rail line on the Cotton Belt Line to a new version of my map. (What other color can it be? all the good primary colors are taken.) The stations on it are not real...Yet. I still have to fix up much the the lines and stations. If the Cotton belt hits DFW, will it feed into DFW or will there a new 'DFW North' station? Hmmmm.....

http://home.earthlink.net/~raleighs/DartRailMap1-9-v17.gif

Now it's looking almost as busy as the London Tube map!
MESSY!

[js]

It seems as though all the future activity for the DART rail System is to expand to the North West. The south and the east need the LRT too, may be to encourage more development in these areas. Just a thought.

[gc]

It seems as though all the future activity for the DART rail System is to expand to the North West. The south and the east need the LRT too, may be to encourage more development in these areas. Just a thought.

I was about to say the same thing. As great as the map looks, upon another glance it neglects South Dallas. IMO, South Dallas possesses the greatest opportunity for growth in the city.

[drumguy8800]

well.. to say something about south dallas.. cedar hill wants to join DART and have DART run through their city along the red line, and so does Duncanville. They even want the red line as far south as Midlothian. Also, either a continuation of the DART blue line or the connection of a commuter and LRT line at I-20 station (as in, commuter line will continue south on same SH 342 ROW..), will continue down through Lancaster, Red Oak, and terminate in Waxahachie. And btw, on the map, there's something weird to the left of PGBT station.. the lines go in a different direction, and its a different color. But besides that, this map is even better!!!! What program did you use to make this? Also.. why is there so much space between White Rock station and Mockingbird Station? Go ahead and throw in an Abrams st. and Skillman st. station in for good measure :D.. and then we can extend the blue line to rockwall.. and.. and.. and..

[raleighs]

And btw, on the map, there's something weird to the left of PGBT station.. the lines go in a different direction, and its a different color.

Ok, the 'Cotton Belt Line' goes from Downtown Ft. Worth to DFW. Right? right.
From DFW to Addison and around east of there, whats that? Crosstown Corridor? Light rail or commuter? and it's kinda going all over the place around Addison.

I'll take out the 'Brown' rail from DFW East... Bear with me, It's a work in progress. I'll fix it.

The NCTCOG site has this map:
http://home.earthlink.net/~raleighs/nctcog-railmap.gif
It's confusing to know where exactly the 'North Crosstown Corridor' lines are going.
I'm using the NCTCOG map as my inspiration for my "Future' map.


But besides that, this map is even better!!!! What program did you use to make this?
Adobe Illustrator. Love that program! :cool:


Also.. why is there so much space between White Rock station and Mockingbird Station?
Hmmm.. ??? Looks ok to me... When I created the map, I designed it with all 45 degree angles, things are not exactly to scale. One day I showed someone the map and asked why downtown was so HUGE! So I added the 'Not to scale' in the corner.

So if anyone finds something weird with it, or it needs a fix, please let me know.

[drumguy8800]

Hmmm.. ??? Looks ok to me... When I created the map, I designed it with all 45 degree angles, things are not exactly to scale. One day I showed someone the map and asked why downtown was so HUGE! So I added the 'Not to scale' in the corner.

I wasn't talking about your drawing.. you're drawing is perfect. I was talking about DART's decision not to put another station between White Rock and Mockingbird.. sorry for the confusion!


And btw, on the map, there's something weird to the left of PGBT station.. the lines go in a different direction, and its a different color.

Again, sorry for the confusion. I was talking about a tiny little portion on the map right where there's a second circle next to PGBT station- just a little thing.. I wasn't talking about the entire line. I believe that the 'crosstown' corridor that will be used is definetly cottonbelt, so, your map is accurate. I never realized how close Cottonbelt was to Addison Circle until I saw it today! yeesh!

[raleighs]

D'oh! :o Thanks! (i'm a little slow tonight... Cycling in the heat for a few hours will do that to you.)

Yeah, they do need a station in between, it would be great for the neighborhood. The Blue Line doesn't have as many stations like the red line does. (25 red vs. 19 blue) They can stand a few more.

Raleigh

[freewaytincan]

D'oh! :o Thanks! (i'm a little slow tonight... Cycling in the heat for a few hours will do that to you.)

Yeah, they do need a station in between, it would be great for the neighborhood. The Blue Line doesn't have as many stations like the red line does. (25 red vs. 19 blue) They can stand a few more.

Raleigh

Yeah, it got me today. Almost got sick.

And whoa, I didn't notice that the KCS spur through Richardson was being looked at. Nice.

[Geaux Tigers]

I'd love to see an extension of the "brown" line (or maybe we could go with a new "indigo" line) further into FW down to the TCU/FW Zoo/Colonial area. You could run it into the T&P station then turn northwest up to a possible future Sundance Square station.

[rantanamo]

Might the proposed Lake Highlands village create a new stop on the blue line?

[simulcra]

One word: woah. Read: woah.

But construction won't start until 2008-ish on the proposed expansions?

EDIT: this may be a stupid question, but are the stations on the proposed lines actual stations? having deep ellum as an actual stop is kinda cool (and they better make a night-owl service available on the lines as soon as they open that station)

[rantanamo]

The purple and orange line are the next phase. Stations are already final, with some routes like a Love Field subway are awaiting federal funding. The brown line and top 4 stations of the purple are pretty much hope by us forumers. The delays are more of a funding issue than everything. The downturn in the economy pushed everything back a little, but things are finally being moved up little by little. DART has very comprehensive and specific plans for the near and far future. Surprised?!?!?! Most are because they think nothing is happening here.

[bloodandpopcorn]

When do we hear on the federal funding of Love Field?

[freewaytincan]

When do we hear on the federal funding of Love Field?

I figure at some point they'll pony up the money, even if a "temporary" station has to be built next to Love Field until the tunnel can be completed.

Just as soon as they make the DC system even better...which really pisses me off, by the way. If you really want what I really think IM me. And you might want to keep your finger on the X, or the block. Your choice.

Pictures courtesy of my brother, taken this past Christmas.

[bloodandpopcorn]

Ok, but when is the initial decision passed down?

[rantanamo]

Here's some stuff from a while back from SSP


For more than a year, Dallas Area Rapid Transit and the city of Dallas have haggled over the cost and merits of running trains directly under the airport – a $160 million project that has drawn contributions from DART, the city and the North Central Texas Council of Governments. Still, they remained well short.
But regional transit leaders announced Thursday that they plan to make up an estimated $13 million of the shortfall. And they also pledged to try to tap the new Texas Mobility Fund for $40 million. Money from that fund, which gets its revenues from fees and fines of bad drivers, would provide some of the last money needed for a tunnel under the airport terminal.
The regional planning agency will play a role in the Texas Mobility Fund revenue distribution, which could start in about two years. The region's share of that could reach $750 million.
The transit agency has sought federal advice on whether the rail tunnel's extra cost would affect its request for $700 million in federal funds. Some of DART's suburban members have questioned the need for a more expensive tunnel.
But building the rail tunnel may help DART get its federal funds, said Michael Morris, director of transportation for the North Central Texas Council of Governments. Federal officials place a high priority on rail funding requests if the proposed lines link different modes of transportation.
"We should have a transit element to the Texas Mobility Fund," said Mr. Morris, who also plans to devote $60 million from the mobility fund for an eventual rail connection into D/FW Airport from the Cotton Belt rail line to the north. "You could go from Love Field to D/FW Airport without going outside."

Formerly in late December of last year this was reported by the Dallas Morning News:

It is good to find a solution to an impasse - particularly when that impasse involves passenger rail service to Dallas Love Field.
Federal officials helped break up a sticky situation last week by agreeing to review two Dallas Area Rapid Transit rail line expansion plans, including one that commits $160 million to a line that goes to the municipal airport.
The agreement may avert an ugly scene between DART officials and the Dallas City Council, which seemed prepared to block the next transit federal funding request if it didn't include passenger service to Love Field.
The transit agency has had to walk a fine line on the airport transportation controversy. Member cities in the northwest are angry that it will be years before the popular light rail system reaches them. In fact, talk of further delays prompted Farmers Branch to discuss pulling out of DART. The loss would be a financial blow to the transit agency's long-range plans.
The decision by the Federal Transit Administration to review a plan that has direct service to Love Field, as well as one that does not, gives Dallas and the suburbs an equal opportunity to make their case.
The rift over the Love Field line is unfortunate. Passenger service to the airport benefits the entire region - not simply Dallas. But tight federal budgets have a way of convincing cities to fend for themselves.
Should the Federal Transit Administration approve a $700 million allocation that excludes Love Field, DART must keep its promise to find an alternative way to build the line. Dallas already is prepared to place an additional fee on passenger tickets at the airport to pay its share of the costs.
This project is too important to get caught in a tug-of-war.

In July, at the DART website:

http://www.dart.org/nweis/nwcorridoreis5a.htm

The DEIS also included a Love Field Design Option which would have provided direct tunnel access to the Dallas Love Field terminal area (see Figure 6). An open-cut station would have been located just south of the existing terminal near a possible future ticket area and baggage claim wing with pedestrian access to the main terminal.
While there is support for this tunnel connection from the majority of the public, it is estimated to add $160 million to the project. Given the downturn in the economy, DART's sales tax revenues, its primary source of funding, have been greatly affected. Lower sales tax revenues have resulted in potential delays of about two years or more to the Northwest Corridor LRT project. Without additional outside funding for the Love Field tunnel, adding the tunnel to the project would increase delays by another year or more. These additional delays are unacceptable to many of DART’s member cities, including the cities of Dallas, Farmers Branch and Carrollton.
Because of the additional delays and added costs, the Final EIS does not include the Love Field tunnel as part of the selected alternative. However, DART is working with the City of Dallas on an "interlocal agreement" (ILA) that outlines the necessary steps for the tunnel to be reconsidered. One of the key elements of the ILA is identification of the $160 million in funds. The DART Board has pledged $20 million towards the $160 million cost difference. Similarly, the City is seeking a Passenger Facility Charge (PFC) at Dallas Love Field to help fund its share of $53.3 million. That leaves about $86.7 million that still must be found. With DART's support, the City of Dallas plans to seek additional funds from the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG), Dallas County, and other sources to help fund the project.
The second key element of the ILA is that DART must submit the project with and without the tunnel to the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) as part of its New Starts funding application. The FTA rates several New Start projects every year, and if the project receives a "recommended" or higher rating, then it is eligible for federal funds. DART is seeking $700 million in federal funds for the Northwest and Southeast corridors.
___
CONCLUSION: This is my opinion, but when DART is short $86.7 million for the DART light rail tunnel at Love Field, and all that has been raised by different organizations is $53 million, we're still $36.7 million short..... While Dallas wants this, the other suburban cities don't if it delays construction to them. I think it is better to build as planned west of Love Field, than add a APM Skyline people mover tunnel instead for much less cost linking directly with the station on Denton Drive, and forgoing the longer light rail tunnel under Mockingbird Lane.

The DART light rail tunnel will cost $160 million, with DART only paying $20 million, the rest being sought from local and state authorities. The APM Skyline people mover will work just as effectively, we are using it at DFW airport, and probably cost half as much....

[Man of Leisure]

:music2:


I would love to see DART even come close to this prototype in my lifetime.

[gc]

In July, at the DART website:
http://www.dart.org/nweis/nwcorridoreis5a.htm


Wow. That is exciting to see.

[RobertB]

My suggestions, with the important caveat that there's no way I could match your efforts!

* Is there really enough freight on the line between Addison Circle and Carrollton Square to keep it a heavy rail line? I'd really like to see light rail extended to Addison Station. Of course, the fact that I work nearby is a factor. :)

* The cost of ROW on the Purple Line extention from Forest Lane to Addison Circle is going to be prohibitive, and I don't see any chance for a subway line under the tollway and 635 -- you've still got to have ROW for the stations. Why not make the whole Carrollton to Bush Turnpike be light rail? Carrollton would be a good place for a light-to-heavy transfer point. Actually, Trinity Mills would be even better, with less neighborhood impact.

* Please consider funding commuter rail south of FW to Cleburne. Maybe that would eliminate the need for the destructive Southwest Parkway project.

* Seagoville could use an Orange Line station (again, convenient for me). Maybe you could put it across US-175 from the Federal Prison? "I hear the train a-comin', it's coming 'round the bend, and I ain't seen the sunshine since I don't know when..."

* I've long hoped for a Red Line north extension into Grand Prairie. Follow the rail ROW up to Cockrell Hill, then go down the Jefferson Street median to Loop 12, then buy a couple dozen car lots to the old Naval Air Station. That's all still in Dallas, so technically you could do it without GP joining DART! (When cash grows on trees, that is)

[drumguy8800]

They're going to build the longest mined tunnels on Earth underneath I-635 anyway, why not make room for a rail line?

[freewaytincan]

They're going to build the longest mined tunnels on Earth underneath I-635 anyway, why not make room for a rail line?

That'll double the cost, maybe more. You wanna pay for that? I think an elevated rail makes the most sense on a highway.

[rantanamo]

I wish they would take 2 of those 4 HOV lanes that will be in the middle of LBJ at that segment and put the rail right in the middle of it.

[gc]

I wish they would take 2 of those 4 HOV lanes that will be in the middle of LBJ at that segment and put the rail right in the middle of it.


Exactly! Has anyone seen what they are doing to I30 from Oak Cliff to Grand Praire? It is unbelievable.

[dallastophoenix]

what does it look like, gc?

[rantanamo]

are you talking about the murals?

[RobertB]

are you talking about the murals?
The murals at Belt Line and I-30 are beautiful, but I think he's talking about the massive widening project that will have I-30 being a jillion (technical term) lanes wide all the way from downtown Dallas to the boondoggle :mad: known as SH-161. They'll probably put HOV lanes in it, as a way of pretending to do something about the problem.

I think HOV lanes are not very useful for getting people to double-up. The author of an interesting book called Asphalt Nation says "two people isn't a carpool, it's a date". I'd rather see them turned into express lanes, for use of anyone who's going from point A to point Z with no plans to stop at points B through Y. It seems the gas savings come from not sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic. If you want to convince people to subject themselves to someone else's schedule, we already have a way to do that: the bus.

At least we haven't wasted millions on HOV flyover bridges like Houston has.

[gc]

The murals at Belt Line and I-30 are beautiful, but I think he's talking about the massive widening project that will have I-30 being a jillion (technical term) lanes wide all the way from downtown Dallas to the boondoggle :mad: known as SH-161. They'll probably put HOV lanes in it, as a way of pretending to do something about the problem.


Exactly! It annoys me every time I drive west on I30.

[rantanamo]

well then, LBJ should really annoy you. Just think, 4 HOV, 12 mainlaines, 6 tunnel lanes and 6 frontage lanes = 28 lanes each way at places. Ouch.

I agree that those elevated HOVs are crazy. We don't need that, nor do we need 4 lanes of HOV on one freeway. Bad enought that the High Five will have it's own HOV flyover from Central to LBJ.

[gc]

well then, LBJ should really annoy you. Just think, 4 HOV, 12 mainlaines, 6 tunnel lanes and 6 frontage lanes = 28 lanes each way at places. Ouch.

I agree that those elevated HOVs are crazy. We don't need that, nor do we need 4 lanes of HOV on one freeway. Bad enought that the High Five will have it's own HOV flyover from Central to LBJ.

It does, but I have a personal towards I30. It is the highway most traveled for me. It takes me "Home" to Arlington and takes me back "Home" to Dallas. I'll always love the old I30.

[sockid]

well then, LBJ should really annoy you. Just think, 4 HOV, 12 mainlaines, 6 tunnel lanes and 6 frontage lanes = 28 lanes each way at places. Ouch.

I agree that those elevated HOVs are crazy. We don't need that, nor do we need 4 lanes of HOV on one freeway. Bad enought that the High Five will have it's own HOV flyover from Central to LBJ.
<!-- / message -->
Rantanamo that sounds like a HOUSTON project- Good Grief- Just think of the train trackage you could put in there. I could put two trains each way into that space and still have room for devolpement.

[rantanamo]

I notice that they aren't specifically labelled as HOV until east of the High Five. They are labelled as HOT. High Occupancy Toll. Strangely enough they are proposing to cut and cover these west of the bored tunnels, by either putting them under the mainlanes or under the frontage roads. Must say this is a surprise to me.

[TexasTiny]

DART needs to be MART - Metroplex Area Rapid Tranist. It should be regional solution like NTTA or TxDOT.

[bloodandpopcorn]

We had a discussion about a "name change" before. Everything that MART could serve is Dallas Area anyway, so why go through the hassle of a name change? Most suburbs don't seem to mind. Even if it comes down two three different "names" (the T, DTA, and DART), if hte organizations work well together they can essentially provide the same service with different names and different emphasis to their respective areas.

If the organizations were to consolidate, it would probably most likely resemble DART anyway (since it is the largest organziation currently, and they could use their size to leverage not having to repaint everything in their fleet and change color schemes etc.), so I really dont' see why we can't just keep the name. DART's a better acronym than MART (what does a mart have to do with anything transit oriented?) anyway.

[TexasTiny]

We had a discussion about a "name change" before. Everything that MART could serve is Dallas Area anyway, so why go through the hassle of a name change? Most suburbs don't seem to mind. Even if it comes down two three different "names" (the T, DTA, and DART), if hte organizations work well together they can essentially provide the same service with different names and different emphasis to their respective areas.

If the organizations were to consolidate, it would probably most likely resemble DART anyway (since it is the largest organziation currently, and they could use their size to leverage not having to repaint everything in their fleet and change color schemes etc.), so I really dont' see why we can't just keep the name. DART's a better acronym than MART (what does a mart have to do with anything transit oriented?) anyway.
it has less to do with the name and more to do with the organization. I just think that if the freeways can be run by a regional organization why not the transit? DART is struggling because DART is pretty much on it's own. Why doesnt TxDOT or the NTTA run it? If only the transit organizations copied off the success of the freeway system.

[gc]

Why doesnt TxDOT or the NTTA run it? If only the transit organizations copied off the success of the freeway system.

It is probably not that easy tiny.

[TexasStar]

DART is just too cool a name to change.

[rantanamo]

freeway system isn't all that successful, unless we go by usage numbers and congestions :P

[TexasTiny]

freeway system isn't all that successful, unless we go by usage numbers and congestions :P
The Dallas-Fort Worth freeway system is very successful. Sure there's congestion. What city doesnt have congestion? The congestion here is, by far, not the worst.

[rantanamo]

Our congestion is always on the top 10 worst list as is our air quality. If you were a restaurant charged with the duty of successfully feeding the people of the metroplex, just feeding them in any way wouldn't be a success. Especially if you were considered a very unhealthy restaurant as well as having super slow service that put you in the bottom 10 of restaurants in the country. The way people use the restaurant though, may be to blame, as is our usage of the freeways.

[CTroyMathis]

Great maps raleigh! (Belated.)