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CTroyMathis
03-17-2002, 06:15 PM
Building a better McKinney trolley
03/17/2002
By TONY HARTZEL / The Dallas Morning News
ROAD RUNNER
Call it the Little Trolley Company That Did.
Next month, the McKinney Avenue Transit Authority will unveil a pair of major route extensions, the first in the agency's 13-year history.
"It's time for MATA to grow up and become part of the downtown transportation system," said executive vice president Ron Kovatis, paraphrasing former Dallas Mayor Ron Kirk's advice to the agency. "But we're going to make sure the unique atmosphere the trolley service has had is not lost. We may have to be more businesslike, but we certainly don't want to lose that volunteer spirit."
Heading north from the authority's current line, the city of Dallas and the agency are almost finished with a $3.5 million, 1.25-mile line extension. The city spent about $2 million more in sewer work.
The new tracks will stretch from the trolley's Uptown digs to the West Village development and DART's Cityplace station at Central Expressway and Lemmon Avenue. Plans for a special streetcar turntable at the Cityplace area continue; construction could begin this summer.
Expansion of another kind will occur on the southern end of the trolley line.
Dallas Area Rapid Transit and MATA have agreed to share the cost of running shuttle buses between the St. Paul Street trolley stop in the Arts District and the light-rail station in the West End Historic District. The Downtown Improvement District recently agreed to help finance the trolley agency, which was crucial for the expansions, Mr. Kovatis said.
The trolley authority's annual budget will jump from $250,000 to $1.5 million, an increase that will be supported by DART, the Downtown Improvement District and the Uptown Public Improvement District. The Uptown district helped create the streetcar agency.
The good news for commuters and trolley enthusiasts is that the shuttle bus and the streetcar rides will be free when the expansions open. Patrons now pay up to $1.50 to ride the trolleys.
Refurbished trolleys first ran along McKinney Avenue in 1989, a vision spurred by the discovery of old tracks during street construction years earlier. A four-car fleet of 76- to 96-year-old trolley cars now makes runs every 30 minutes, carrying 70,000 people a year. The cars are driven by volunteers.
Paid operators will take over for volunteers when both extensions open April 13. About 45 volunteer drivers and 15 mechanics have kept the agency rolling since it began.
"Most of the faces will be the same; they're just going to be on our payroll," said chief operating officer John Landrum, who expects to hire six to 10 people to run the trolleys.
A schedule change will make the authority operate more like a big-city transit agency. After the expansion opens, trolleys will make their first run at 7 a.m., three hours earlier than current schedules. In addition, streetcars will make stops every 20 minutes from 7 to 9 a.m. and from 4 to 7 p.m. but could shorten their runs to make stops every 15 minutes.
"This will let people consider MATA as a commuter alternative," Mr. Kovatis said.
Organizers envision Uptown workers riding DART rail to Cityplace and then hopping a trolley for their final connection to many businesses along and near McKinney Avenue. Another vision that they hope to see by 2004: trolleys running from their current southern terminus directly to the West End light-rail station.
Andy Nold
03-18-2002, 06:04 PM
Saturday, April 13, 2002, Cityplace at Lemmon & Central
http://www.mata.org/images/expparty.gif
Thousands of fun loving, circus going, trolley fans and their families will pack Cityplace and the Uptown area on Saturday, April 13 for the Big Top at the Trolley Stop for a day of events, celebrating the McKinney Avenue Transit Authority's 13th birthday and the Grand Opening of our new Cityplace extension.
This event features a real Big Top Circus, live entertainment, arts & crafts, birthday cake and FREE trolley rides!
Call the Big Top Hotline at 972.943.4624 for tickets and more information.
www.mata.org (http://www.mata.org)
CTroyMathis
03-18-2002, 08:15 PM
Thanks, Andy!
That should be a great event, and needless to say, a MATA milestone.
-Troy.
Andy Nold
03-25-2002, 11:42 AM
I was talking to the chief operating officer on Sunday and I learned (to my surprise) that after the 13th of April, the streetcar will no longer charge fares for regular passengers (school groups and charters or special movements will still require nominal fare). Apparently, they are to receive enough of a subsidy from the Uptown Improvement District, the Downtown Improvement District and DART to cover their annual operating expenses.
They are planning to hire half a dozen fulltime operators and they have promised 15 minute headways with three cars operating daily. Wow. They're going to need some more cars to come online soon since they only have four cars now. Which means they need another carbarn since the current one is virtually full.
CTroyMathis
04-02-2002, 07:39 PM
When Novelties Become a Nuisance
by Virginia Postrel
The McKinney Avenue trolley may be cute. But nobody rides it, and it doesn’t make money.
It all started innocently enough. In the early 1980s, local businesses got the city to pull up the asphalt on McKinney Avenue to expose the old brick underneath and give the neighborhood some historic charm. The process also revealed streetcar tracks—tracks that local trolley buff Ed Landrum estimated would be good for another 50 years of service. Landrum invited Phil Cobb, the head of the neighborhood business association and a prominent restaurateur, to come see a home movie taken in 1956, on the last day streetcars rolled down McKinney Avenue in what is now Uptown.
Enthralled by the images, Cobb had Landrum run the film for him more than a dozen times. “The hair on the back of my neck literally went up,” he recalls. “I was hooked on playing a role in trying to get some federal and local funds to bring the streetcars back to Dallas.”
That was about 15 years ago. Since then, what began as a modest effort to bring a bit of charm and history to a small stretch of existing track has grown. And grown.
Instead of a modest addition to neighborhood aesthetics—an old-time car going up and down the avenue on weekends—the McKinney Avenue trolley system has become a heavily subsidized transit boondoggle, soaking up millions of tax dollars and forcing neighbors to live with construction and congestion. Even as the system has expanded its ambitions, the number of riders has shrunk, and private funds are getting harder to raise.
After a year and a half of living nearby, I took my first McKinney Avenue trolley ride on a Monday morning in February. Car number 186, a.k.a. “the Green Dragon,” arrived promptly at 11 o’clock, picking me up at the last McKinney stop before the car turns left on Hall Street and heads downtown.
When I said I was writing about the trolley, driver Louis Mullenix pointed out the sign describing the green-and-white car’s history. Built in 1913, it had ridden the Dallas rails until streetcar service ended in 1956. The Green Dragon did time as a hay barn, its wheels removed, until Landrum rescued it. “Restored by Ed Landrum and Kate Landrum Schultz” reads a bronze plaque in the front of the car. The fare box solicits donations to the McKinney Avenue Transit Authority, the nonprofit group, chaired by Phil Cobb, that runs the trolleys.
Remembering my mother’s stories of her childhood conversations with the streetcar drivers, I’d planned to ask questions as I rode. But that plan proved impossible, at least if I wanted to hear the answers. The old car’s clatter against the rails rivals a noisy factory. The wood floor creaks and the windows rattle. You can barely hear yourself, much less the driver a few feet away.
Having watched the trolleys for many months, I wasn’t surprised to be the only passenger—the sixth of the day, Mullenix told me. On our return trip from downtown, a man got on at St. Paul and Woodall Rodgers. He was walking to a friend’s house, he said, when he looked up and saw the trolley. “Right time, right place,” he said, handing Mullenix a dollar to cover the 75-cent, one-way fare. On a second round trip, all the seats but mine remained empty.
CTroyMathis
04-02-2002, 07:40 PM
That’s typical. In 1997, the most recent year for which figures are available, MATA counted 73,879 fare-paying passengers, or about 200 a day. Since then, the novelty has worn off, and two years of construction on McKinney have disrupted operations. Cobb now estimates ridership at just over 100 a day, plus lots of charters like the weekend birthday party that left bits of purple and green balloons on the windowsill next to my wooden bench. Few fare-paying passengers are regulars. Most are tourists, many of them local suburbanites, and almost all come on the weekends. “We’ve been a cute, little, fun trolley for Grandpa to come in and take the grandkids to ride on,” says Casie Pierce, MATA’s executive administrative director.
The nearly empty trolleys that cruise McKinney Avenue, traveling about twice the pace of an energetic walker, represent a lot of what is good about Dallas. Driven by volunteers and financed in part by substantial contributions from local businesses, these trolleys wouldn’t exist without a can-do spirit of civic involvement. A lot of grandpas and grandkids have enjoyed their weekend outings because of these imaginative and dedicated people.
But the trolleys also represent what is wrong with the Dallas Way—costs imposed on the many for the benefit of the few, expensive gestures judged by their intent rather than their effectiveness, a cheerleading culture that precludes criticism or reality checks. The McKinney Avenue trolley system is, in short, a good symbol of all the frustrations that shook the Dallas establishment when Laura Miller became mayor.
Since it incorporated in the late 1980s, MATA has spent more than $13 million to lay tracks and expand its routes. Another $3.1 million is on hand for further expansion downtown, about half what Cobb estimates it would cost to stretch to the West End, a cherished MATA goal. More than $8 million of this money has come from federal taxes, upwards of $6 million from the city tax base, and another $2 million or so from private donations.
Those capital costs are on top of an operating budget of around $250,000 per year, $150,000 of which comes from the Uptown Public Improvement District and the rest from charters, advertising, fares, and donations. Dividing that annual operating budget by a generous 80,000 passengers per year, we find that a round-trip passenger pays $1.50 for a trip that costs an average of $3.12 to provide—not including millions of dollars for capital costs and the value of all that volunteer labor. That’s the best-case calculation, and that cost is about to skyrocket.
On April 13, MATA will celebrate the trolley line’s northward extension, with tracks looping around the new West Village shopping center and connecting to the Cityplace DART station. The trolleys, says Cobb, are about to “really grow up. We’re becoming more than just an attraction, more than just a historic addition to the city of Dallas. We now want to be part of a larger system, and that’s where we’re going.”
CTroyMathis
04-02-2002, 07:41 PM
More, more, more. That’s the problem: the trolleys are an expensive hobby in search of a public justification. And the broader the search becomes, the more expensive the hobby.
To attract commuters, MATA plans to quadruple its operating budget to more than $1 million per year, replacing some or all of today’s volunteer drivers with paid employees, lengthening its hours of operation, and expanding its two-person headquarters staff. Some of the new money will come from the Downtown Public Improvement District, adding to existing contributions from its Uptown equivalent. But to make up most of the difference, MATA is counting on DART, which it hopes will underwrite trolley subsidies in exchange for free transfers from its rail lines. Ideally, MATA would like to eliminate the fare box altogether.
Having already demonstrated extremely limited appeal to neighborhood residents, who’d rather walk or drive, the trolleys need commuters to justify their recent and planned expansions. Commuters don’t want to wait a half hour to switch from train to trolley, and they don’t want to pay more to get to work. Interviewed as he waits to order lunch at Cafe Express, a rail commuter says that, sure, he’ll take the trolley from the Cityplace station—if it’s raining and if transfers are free. Otherwise, he’d rather walk. He enjoys it.
Pedestrians aren’t part of the McKinney Avenue grand scheme. Walking doesn’t leave monuments or require millions of dollars in federal grants. A pedestrian-friendly neighborhood is not the Dallas Way.
That may be what bothers me most about the trolleys’ contribution to the urban landscape. No one ever mentions that the streetcars and their tracks are hostile to both pedestrians and automobiles, slowing traffic and wiping out parking places. Expanding the system northward has forced residents to live with disruptive construction (some of which was worsened by sewer work) that made sidewalks and streets nearly impassable. Adding more frequent service will cause more traffic snarls and more pedestrian interference, even as the growing neighborhood becomes busier. Amid the cheerleading, no one points out that if anyone actually starts riding the trolleys, the streetcars will have to make more squealing stops, further jamming the streets.
The trolleys, in other words, may be nice artifacts to visit, but you wouldn’t want to live with them. Or foot the bill.
Contributing Editor Virginia Postrel is an economics columnist for The New York Times and the author of The Future and Its Enemies. She is writing a book on the governing importance of aesthetics, to be published by HarperCollins in 2003.
CTroyMathis
04-02-2002, 07:43 PM
double-post...oops.
GarrettCarey
05-21-2002, 11:17 AM
Speaking of the trolley system. I have noticed that those streetcars have been relatively empty over the past couple of weeks since restarting service. I have some questions.
- Has anyone used the MATA? How was it?
- How many cars run at one time?
- Where the hell are streetcar stops?
- Why aren't people using them?
- What will it take to get people to use the trolleys?
any others?
KelleyUSA
05-21-2002, 12:11 PM
Downtowner,
I live in the West Village and was very excited to see the trolley extension finished. I, like yourself have noticed just how empty the cars are. It's very depressing- how bored do you think the drivers get?? It seems that most people just ride them on the weekends as a novelty with their kids etc.. I really wish more people would see this as a viable option for transportation. Of course, they have done almost NO advertising on the extension and how you can now catch it at Cityplace. They should advertise to the Uptown area and spread the word to people who work in the area- I think they could capture a great crowd at lunch time at least.
I did ride the trolley once. We took it to the last stop near West End. It was somewhat noisy- but still pretty cool. I believe they have 2 cars now that run during the morning and afternoon. Eventually they'll have 3 cars that make the loop and can be caught every 10-15 minutes.
GarrettCarey
05-21-2002, 01:47 PM
Man...how boring a job....driving an empty trolleycar all day long! WHEW!
I too have noticed how loud those cars are....they need some WD-40!
I hope they make an effort to market the system. It is here to stay apparently and they have invested heavily in it's infrastrucute. Now, they just need to make it attractive to everybody.
Maybe as more restaurants, bars, and shops open up along McKinney Avenue people will be more inclined to use it. WE shall see!
GarrettCarey
06-24-2002, 01:50 PM
I am not sure if anyone else has noticed, but the MATA streetcars have been moving around more people than I ever expected!
Whether it is being used for novelty purposes or for legitimate transportation, the MATA is living up to it's end of the deal.
Any thoughts?
KelleyUSA
06-24-2002, 02:07 PM
Still waiting to see the numbers increase during the week- but considering I don't work in Uptown (just reside their) not sure how full the cars are during the day. Someone else might be able to help me out with that! I can attest that in the evening the rider-ship is up- and the weekends seem to do very well!
bloodandpopcorn
01-20-2003, 10:41 PM
CDTMA Issues Circulator Study
If recommendations from the Central Dallas Transportation Management Association are implemented, Downtown could be served by European-style streetcars on a fixed route running from Uptown through the West End, Main Street area and Arts
District. According to a five-year plan recently issued by the CDTMA, the new circulator system would extend the 3.8 mile long track currently used by the McKinney Avenue trolley to link the DART light rail system with “activity centers” such as the convention center, cultural destinations, attractions, jobs and residences. The report also called for creation of a local government corporation, partnering the City of Dallas, DART and the McKinney Avenue Transit Authority, to develop and operate the circulator.
-----------
Great news indeed! I really hope that this idea is realized. I think we should all send emails to DART and MATA and letting them know that we know about this CDTMA study and really support and long for it to happen! That might bring it a step or two closer to reality.
freewaytincan
01-20-2003, 10:56 PM
There are so many old trolleys out there that could be restored, and modernized, yet look the same. I would love to see more of that happen. Those old trolleys add a sense of humanity and class to an area.
Good news about the CDTMA Circulator Study! I am eager to see what is implemented.
Quiz03
01-20-2003, 11:47 PM
"European Streetcars" sounds like it will be modern trams, not heritage streetcars like MATA (which isn't necessarily bad). I wish they would post this report on the internet so we could read it.
freewaytincan
01-20-2003, 11:51 PM
Hey, they could keep the real trolleys in up north of Woodall Rogers, and then that way, they fit the area, then, south of there, they have modern ones that run in downtown, and, you guessed it, fit the area.
crescentboi
01-21-2003, 03:10 PM
I think this is a wonderfull idea. I could only imagine being able to get on the trolley by the WV and going downtown to walk around and dine and then head back up without even having to use my car! I think it would be great! Does anyone know the e-mail addresses for DART or MATA?
psukhu
02-20-2003, 08:13 AM
From dallasnews.com:
Streetcar of desire joins Dallas trolley line
02/20/2003
From Staff Reports
The McKinney Avenue Trolley is going state of the art – state of the art circa 1950, that is.
Its newest car, purchased from Tandy Corp., will offer riders comforts unimagined on the trolley line's antique craft, including a smoother ride and air conditioning.
The streetcar, a Presidential Conference Committee model designed with comfort in mind, was purchased in part with money from the Uptown Improv ement District.
"Ridership has gone up so much since the trolley connected to the Cityplace DART [light-rail] station that we need this kind of car," said Donna Harris of Uptown.
The streetcar will join the fleet as soon as extensive renovations are complete.
Michael E. Young
JaeTex
02-20-2003, 09:24 AM
I support the Trolley, and I imagine traffic is up on it, but still I only ever see a few people on any one trolley at a time.
As part of my taxes go to Uptown Public Improvement District, which provided some of the $$ for the new car, I have to wonder if a better use could have been found.
psukhu
02-20-2003, 09:32 AM
I wish it went a little deeper into downtown, and/or the West End.
crescentboi
02-20-2003, 12:07 PM
I am very excited about this, thinking that this may bring more people to the trolley if they know that it is air conditioned and more comfortable.
JaeTex
02-21-2003, 09:19 AM
It does go into DT- kind of, you have to switch to a trolley bus. I thought I read somewhere that there are plans to (sometime) expand into West End but I can't find now.
http://www.mata.org/map.shtml
Quiz03
02-21-2003, 11:23 AM
There are plans to start construction to go to the Arts District this summer, and a future extension to the West End is dependent on if they can find funding. I wonder how the recent circulator study will affect MATA expansion.
JaeTex
02-28-2003, 06:22 PM
I may be seeing things, but it appears this new trolley car is sitting on the tracks near the CityPlace station. I'm sure it's a good while from being operational, but drive by and check it out.
You are correct. It is sitting there and looks wild. It will be exciting to see it get going
CTroyMathis
04-12-2003, 02:35 PM
I like the heritage trolleys serving the area they serve now, and maybe some other areas in the future as well. Classic old cars running through classic neighborhoods.
I also admire the eurotrams greatly as well, and, they could easily fill many other voids of service and look great doing it within their environment. On the other hand, it's intriguing seeing such brash contrasts such as old architecture and shiny new steel and glass cars like in many places in Europe. ;)
CTroyMathis
04-12-2003, 02:36 PM
Oh, I wish I'd been able to see the report as well.
Did it recommend who would run this circulator? DART, MATA, someone else entirely...?
bloodandpopcorn
04-12-2003, 03:19 PM
Run by MATA, with a bit of supervision or at least input by DART, i believe.
CTroyMathis
04-15-2003, 05:23 PM
(from http://mata.org)
http://www.mata.org/images/143arrive.jpg
http://www.mata.org/images/143-petunia.jpg
http://www.mata.org/images/143down.jpg
I wonder how they'll manage that 'step-up- into the vehicle...
Maybe they're working on that part.
bloodandpopcorn
04-15-2003, 08:18 PM
If I remember correctly, there are already steps there - they just hav eto be uncovered. Idon't remember if thiswas posted on MATA's website or if I was told that during one of my session of bugging the conductors with my questions. But either way, it's not going to be much of a problem, and it's actually the 'least of their worries'. Should be running by summer, i believe.
Haretip
04-24-2003, 08:22 PM
I have read the report. Lots of good ideas and a few nutty ones. They recommended a NEW transit organization be established with board members consisting of stakeholders from DART, City of Dallas, MATA, Downtown Improvement District. Main thing lacking is the dollar$ to implement. All they need now is money.
MATA could run this as an extension of their existing system. I think MATA is wary of having DART equipment on its system and probably fears a DART takeover of the M-Line. Cooperation or coordination are better words than supervision. I have strongly recommended that MATA look to become more of a regular local transit system to appeal to the residents of the Uptown area instead of just the tourists. MATA and DART should be like the relationship between Muni and BART in San Francisco. Since the Citiplace extension, MATA has started to take their operations more seriously, but they need to continue with improvements in service and physical plant.
It is possible to build new cars that could be air conditioned and meet ADA standards but still maintain the appearance of a traditional Dallas streetcar. MATA has the ability to produce reproduction cars, but not the funds in hand.
They are also handicapped by a lack of car storage space. I notice that one of the cars is stored on Blackburn between Cole and McKinney every night since they now have the ex-Fort Worth car inside the carbarn for modifications. (The Fort Worth car was used on a high-platform subway system. They have to put steps back into the car and add doors on the left side because all the doors are on the right side.)
Just my opinion.
-Haretip
Quiz03
04-25-2003, 12:30 AM
Haretip...do you know how we could get a copy or read the report somehow?
Haretip
04-25-2003, 12:47 AM
I suppose the best thing to do would be to contact one of the organizations that commissioned the thing - perhaps the Downtown Improvement District(?). The report that I reviewed was hardcopy and I do not have provisions to digitize/email it (besides not having a copy).
I do not know how quickly the suggestions will be implemented as DART is facing a drastic shortage in sales tax revenue and MATA is busting hump trying to get the subway car in service while keeping existing cars in running condition. Kind of hard to run 3 car rush hour service when you only have 4 cars or less in serviceable condition.
HT
Edit:
After a little dogpile.com session, I found the following links of interest concerning the CDTMA, who apparently commissioned the report and a link to what appears to be their parent or affiliated organization:
http://www.nctcog.dst.tx.us/trans/tdm/tma.htm
www.downtowndallas.org
Happy reading!
Haretip
06-01-2003, 05:30 PM
Work continues on the former subway car, albeit slowly at times to due competing demands for maintenance on the existing fleet.
As the original Washington DC stepwells were being uncovered, investigatory vivisection was performed on the car's sheet metal skin revealing additional original features. Two 2"x2" holes reveal that the original streamlined skin is still extant. Contrary to legend that the ex-Washington DC cars were cut down to floor level and built new, the examination prooves original steel exists.
MATA still plans to put the car in service as soon as possible in its existing configuration, but eventual plans call for restoration of the streamlined appearance.
-Haretip
bloodandpopcorn
06-01-2003, 07:13 PM
very cool! does anyone have pictures/renderings of what these cars looked like before being made uber-ugly by tandy?
Haretip
06-02-2003, 10:51 AM
Check out the stainless steel streamlined cars at the bottom right of the page at NYC Subway Page (http://www.nycsubway.org/us/fortworth/) , or even more at Page 2 (http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/showpix?bmxpbmU9MTA5fDE2fDR8MTZ8Rm9ydCUyMFdvcnRoJTIwTGVvbmFyZHMvVGFuZHklMjBDZW50ZXIlMjBTdWJ3YXl8UD0vdXMvZm9ydHdvcnRoL2luZGV4Lmh0bWx8bnllYXIgZGVzYyxubW9uIGRlc2MsbmRheSBkZXNj)
CTroyMathis
06-02-2003, 12:09 PM
I really dig the old streamline body. As much as I like modern (euro)trams, there's nothing like good old historical cars as well!
Thanks for all the updates, Haretip. Great stuff.
bloodandpopcorn
06-02-2003, 08:56 PM
From the latest Downtown This Week:
MATA Board OKs Extension
A plan to extend the McKinney Avenue Trolley streetcar system to DART’s St. Paul light rail station was approved last month by the McKinney Avenue Transit Authority (MATA) board of directors. A local government corporation would be created to coordinate that and other projects, and MATA would use available federal funding to build the southern extension.
Great news! Hopefully it will get underway soon.
psukhu
06-03-2003, 03:57 PM
Do you guys think it is possible for the trolley to cross the DART rail line? (Bryan Street)
Good question. I am not sure that is feasible. The light rail tracks may not allow it. However, I have been wrong from time to time.
psukhu
06-03-2003, 04:32 PM
I heard about plans before to extend it to San Jacinto-->Olive-->back to McKinney.
Remember when they used to talk about extending it to the West End?
they should extend it to west end and to the knox-henderson area and maybe to deep ellum
bloodandpopcorn
06-03-2003, 05:36 PM
They're still going to do it to the West End, but, they want to do something, anything, at this point. At least that's my understanding. And I think there may even be some agreement with DART that they have to connect to St. Paul by a certain date... I'm not sure. But the West End is still on the map, as is the Arts District loop, unless I'm mistaken.
Haretip
06-03-2003, 11:50 PM
West End is still in the plans, however there is not enough money to pay for the construction. Some of the Downtown stakeholders that provide an operating subsidy for the streetcar do not feel the Route 72 "trolleybus" circulator is sufficient penetration for their dollars, so the St. Paul extension is an affordable compromise that will continue the subsidy.
The tracks will extend south from the end of the current line along St. Paul with a passing siding and perhaps a wye at near Federal Street to allow for single-ended cars. There is a possibiltiy that a new carbarn will be constructed along St. Paul. The track will stop short of the intersection, on the east side of the downtown Post Office (all of this is tentative pending engineering design).
At the same time, the stakeholders will form a local government authority (see other message posts especially re:CDTMA report) to pursue additional funding and additional extensions.
Knox-Henderson is MATA's next preferred extension after the West End is complete. Ironically, a large percentage of the line to the West End is already designed and has been shelved for future use.
The streetcar tracks could cross the light rail line without any difficulty. I think DART is operational negative on that, but if they don't sink the downtown line into a subway before further streetcar extension in downtown, a crossing is inevitable. The only thing I can't figure out in my mind is how to make the overhead wires cross (MATA uses 600 VDC and i think DART uses 825 or 875 VDC(?)) I'm sure some engineer will devise a convenient solution. So it is possible to cross, but not necessary at this time.
bloodandpopcorn
06-04-2003, 09:46 AM
would a really small, "null" spot kill either the light rail or trolley power? If it wouldnt, they could just have the exact point where they cross have no power, but have their own power on either side of it. Maybe I'm completely off on my thoughts, though...
So how long will it be before construction begins, Haretip? Any estimates?
Haretip
06-04-2003, 12:00 PM
Well, haven't heard anything solid, but the engineering work would have to be done first. I don't see ground being broken before the end of the year unless the engineers really whip out a plan in short order. I'm not even sure this proposal is actually firmed up yet, but we'll.
CTroyMathis
06-23-2003, 02:27 PM
Here is a tidbit from DART related to some of the above conversation:
Inside the substations, more than 13,000 volts of AC electrical power is converted into 600 to 900 volts of DC energy required to run the trains. Two additional substations are located at DART's Service & Inspection Facility. The power distributed from each substation varies, depending on the number of trains in service and operating speed of rail traffic.
DART is unique in having the only variable voltage power distribution system in North America. Each substation is polled for energy usage and voltages are varied according to energy used and energy needed. An energy management system logs and predicts the amount of energy needed by the system based on usage history and predicted schedule. The energy management system's main purpose is to reduce energy costs while providing proper energy to the light rail vehicle. Not all substations have to be operational for the light rail system to work. In the event of loss of utility power to a substation, the system is designed to provide enough power to compensate.
Anyhow, I stepped in to ask Haretip a question. Do you have any information on those Toronto PCCs (4613 & 4614)?
http://www.mata.org/images/UnloadingPCCs.jpg
Haretip
06-24-2003, 10:36 AM
That pictures shows the two Toronto cars being unloaded at the DART Service & Inspection yard several years ago. Toronto spent several hundred thousand dollars each restoring these cars in the early 90's and then decided to get rid of them at near scrap prices. MATA got a heck of a deal. Unfortunately the cars are not ideally suited for Dallas. Toronto rails are wider than standard gage, whereas McKinney Avenue is standard gage at 4 feet 8 and 1/2 inches. They played around with regaging the existing trucks, but it was never a high priority and never completed.
The other problem with these cars is that they are single ended and must be turned when they reach the end of the line. Dallas has always been a double ended streetcar system, MATA is no different. Therefore, these cars will not operate until the turntable is installed at Citiplace and a loop, be it the Nasher Loop or the West End Loop, is installed. The alternative to a loop is a Wye, which is proposed for Federal Street in the event that the St. Paul extension to the DART Station is built. Some have suggested building the St. Paul extension without the wye, but MATA desperately needs these cars to supplement their tired fleet.
When RadioShack shut down the Tandy Center Subway, MATA purchased additional standard gage trucks and motors. They have rebuilt a set of standard gage trucks to put under the Toronto cars for shuffling them inside the DART yard, but they await motors, wiring and pneumatic plumbing before the cars are operational.
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