MATA: M-Line Streetcar

[tamtagon]

Of course not. We did the survey in 1993 before the streetcar tracks were extended to Cityplace. The focus of our research was between Hall Street and downtown.


Just to check, does the MATA understand the transportation need which is developing in Uptown, Downtown and East Dallas which is uniquely satisfied by dedicated trolley routes? Is it the city which does not grasp the opportunity?

I can understand in 1993, that research would be limited in focus, but after a decade of high density population growth, the research focus should be expanded. The psychological impact of higher population density combined with the sense of longevity from dedicated trolley routes must be included in the research.

Does anyone think that new Uptown residents will not willingly ride a trolley to Deep Ellum, downtown or Oak Lawn? As long as the total trolley trip time is similar to the total auto trip time, the vastly more interactive trolley ride would be prefered.

Evening time DART ridership would increase with convenient trolley routes around the central city. Which is the broken link that's derailing pervasive trolley service within downtown neighborhoods?

[CityLove]

Just so that everyone knows, we already do have quite a nice little charter business going. I'll put in my plug--if anyone wants to rent out a streetcar for an adult party, it's $125 an hour with a two-hour minimum. We do pub crawls, birthday parties, drunkfests, you-name-it. We've even had people engaged and married on the trolley! We also do children's parties for $75 an hour, also a two-hour minimum.

In addition to that, we've started a very successful fundraising event called the Trolley Dine-Around. We've had two so far this year, and they've gone off quite well. It's a progressive dinner, with different stops for each of 3 courses, plus wine on-board and with the main course. We've got the price set at $75 a person at the moment, but that could go up, depending on our restaurant line-up for future events. Everything is included in the price: 3 course meal, wine, tax, tip, and transportation.

This year, the event is quarterly, and we're already sold-out for July and October, with an extensive waiting list. We're definitely considering taking it to a monthly event in the future. If anyone is interested in this event, definitely give me a call and I'll add you to the list for future Dine-Arounds. 214-855-0006 x3.

Just to give you a taste of what we've done in the past, here's the lineup for our first three events:

January
Appetizer: Ferre
Main: Truluck's
Dessert: Breadwinner's

April
Appetizer: Americas
Main: The Capital Grille
Dessert: Avanti

July
Appetizer: Wynnwood catering providing food in the Atrium at the DMA
Main: Sambuca
Dessert: Texas Land & Cattle


That's just a taste. We'll definitely go back to these restaurants in the future.

*End commercial*

Trolleygirl2

[CityLove]

Just to check, does the MATA understand the transportation need which is developing in Uptown, Downtown and East Dallas which is uniquely satisfied by dedicated trolley routes? Is it the city which does not grasp the opportunity?

I can understand in 1993, that research would be limited in focus, but after a decade of high density population growth, the research focus should be expanded. The psychological impact of higher population density combined with the sense of longevity from dedicated trolley routes must be included in the research.

Does anyone think that new Uptown residents will not willingly ride a trolley to Deep Ellum, downtown or Oak Lawn? As long as the total trolley trip time is similar to the total auto trip time, the vastly more interactive trolley ride would be prefered.

Evening time DART ridership would increase with convenient trolley routes around the central city. Which is the broken link that's derailing pervasive trolley service within downtown neighborhoods?

We do understand this. It's also been a stretch, however, to convince Uptown residents that the trolley is the way to go. I'm glad that the forumers around here seem to understand the usefulness of streetcar transportation, but Dallas is still an automobile city, and it's a slow transformation/brainwashing to convince the general public.

None of this is an overnight transformation. The whole process of expanding the line takes time, careful planning, and lots of money. You're not going to see streetcar lines pop up justlikethat.

Then, of course, there is the issue of who's gonna do it? This debate has been hashed and rehashed. Right now, we are still a small nonprofit working on building ourselves up. It's actually working quite well, believe it or not--ridership for the first 4 months of the year is up 19%--yes, 19%--from last year. But it will take time to develop this city into a streetcar city.

You know, it's funny--the automobile killed the streetcar in the 50s. Now we're trying to resurrect the system from the dead, because we realize what a valuable service it indeed was. But it's going to be a long, hard fight to see a system anywhere near what we had back in the glory days.

I wouldn't say there's a "broken link" anywhere. It just takes time. And money. And hard work. Maybe we'll get there, some day...but it won't be tomorrow.

In the mean time, be patient, my friends, and we may be coming a little closer in the not-so-distant future.

TG2

[tamtagon]

^ Thanks.

[Columbus Civil]

The Trolley Dine Around sounds awesome. I'm surprised I've never heard of it before. I'm definitely interested in doing this. I hate talking to people on the phone, though, so I guess I'll just have to miss out :(

[CityLove]

We should have our next forum meet-up on the trolley!

What does everyone think?

I could even get us a car to ourselves.

TG2

[incrediculous]

We do understand this. It's also been a stretch, however, to convince Uptown residents that the trolley is the way to go. I'm glad that the forumers around here seem to understand the usefulness of streetcar transportation, but Dallas is still an automobile city, and it's a slow transformation/brainwashing to convince the general public.
TG2

Wouldn't it be easier to convince Uptown residents to trolly if the were faster and air conditioned?

I get the sense that the MATA's insistence on nostalgia may be a debilitating confliction of goals. The organization envisions a comprehensive system of usable downtown trolly lines... with slow, refurbished, airconditionless early 20th century cars prone to maintenance problems?

Don't mean to be too critical, as the refurbished cars are a lot of fun. Just thinking pragmatically out of concern for an area with a booming population density. If I've misunderstood the MATA's vision, please correct me.

[CityLove]

Wouldn't it be easier to convince Uptown residents to trolly if the were faster and air conditioned?

I get the sense that the MATA's insistence on nostalgia may be a debilitating confliction of goals. The organization envisions a comprehensive system of usable downtown trolly lines... with slow, refurbished, airconditionless early 20th century cars prone to maintenance problems?

Don't mean to be too critical, as the refurbished cars are a lot of fun. Just thinking pragmatically out of concern for an area with a booming population density. If I've misunderstood the MATA's vision, please correct me.

We actually have in our long-range plans to retrofit most of our fleet with air-conditioning. The streetcar being restored in Alabama right now (#754, The Legendary Ben Carpenter Car) will be air-conditioned before it hits the line. This is not something we're resistent to; rather, a matter of finances. You have to understand where we're coming from; our organization has been private from the get-go, and we're still "the little trolley company that could." Sure, you can throw money at us and get a fleet of brand new cars, but you'd also have to build new buildings, more track, hire more operators, and fund a much bigger administrative staff. In other words, it wouldn't be MATA anymore. And where is all this money going to come from?

Besides all that....this insistence on A/C everywhere....our society has really become soft since the advent of air-conditioning. Our grandparents didn't seem to have a problem riding in an "airconditionless streetcar." I'm not saying I'm any better, it's really just an observation.

I understand what you're saying, but please understand our position before you immediately criticize. And know that the wants and needs of the public aren't falling on deaf ears. It's easy, I suppose, to assume we're satisfied with the status quo, but you'd have to be behind the scenes to really know what the desires of the company are.

And yes, I'm sure Uptown Residents would love nothing more than perfect air-conditioned cars to shuttle them back and forth....but there is something to be said about the history we're preserving. Nobody seems to appreciate that, but I guess I'm not surprised. I probably would've said the same thing before I started working for MATA. The cars grow on you, they really do. Even I appreciate the history behind them, and I've never really been a history afficianado.

Oh, and an update on my previous statement. Something actually is catching on about the trolley. Our ridership is up 18% over last year for the first five months of the year!! We've been having a great year, and I expect things will only get better. Our average headways are 20 minutes, 15 during peak times, and the only way to decrease these times would be to add more cars and more operators---easier said than done. Regarding the statement about being "prone to maintenance problems"--I'm not sure I see how this is any different than a DART bus. As a matter of fact, I challenge anyone to see how well those buses are holding up in 60 years! The only difference is, DART has a whole fleet of those buses, and when one goes down, they stick another one in it's place. Dallas Railway & Terminal did the same thing. By comparison, our equipment is really quite sound, and we have an excellent team of shop personnel who have been maintaining the cars superbly. Our workhorse cars have had very few problems this year, none of them major, and we've been keeping on schedule with no major problems for quite some time now.

I hope I haven't offended anyone here. It's my job to defend MATA, and I'm actually quite proud of the job being done, regardless of the fact that they pay my salary. I truly do stand behind the company, and I don't want anyone to think we're not open to suggestions. I'm going to shut up now--I've said enough!

TG2

[incrediculous]

TG,

Thanks for the reply under criticism. Sometimes I sound like a butt-hole when I'm just passionate, or maybe my passion makes me a butt-hole. Who knows?

I do appreciate the history of these trollys. The first time I went to New York, I did so toting about 2 tons of print-outs from nycsubway.org so I'd know a little something about each car. Since moving to the Dallas area, I've enjoyed carousing your website, reading each trolly's story and what you guys plan to do with them. MATA is like an operational transit museum, and that's pretty cool.

It's fun to leisurely ride on the weekend, take in the history and enjoy the atmosphere.

I'm just not sold on the idea that these historic trollys can meet practical transit needs. When I called the trolly "good-for-nothing" in the previous thread, I misrepresented myself. In my mind I was role-playing the frustration of using the trolly on a morning commute. It's almost impossible to appreciate the historic value of the trolly when you're 30 minutes late to work and the trolly takes 20 minutes to travel a route which should only take 10.

In the mean-time, though, as Uptown is not fully-developed, it seems the MATA is doing just fine. Congrats on the ridership increase. I hope you guys succeed in your goal to preserve trolly history. That's an admirable goal.

[CityLove]

Thanks! I'm glad I could help out. I understand your frustrations--believe me I do--and I'd like to see decreased headways myself. I do believe it will happen--perhaps not as quickly as any of us would like--but even as recently as our last Board meeting, we discussed the long-range plans of the organization. This new expansion is only the first step in our plan. Because we're a smaller organization, we have to do things step by step, but we did discuss the eventual plan of turning to more modernized equipment. Let's see where the organization is in 5 years--I definitely think we're moving in the right direction though.

TG2

[WestTexan]

I was under the impression that MATA recieved the marjority of its operating funds from DART and Uptown PID -both funded by taxpayers dirrect and indirrectly. If I'm wrong (entirely possible) and MATA is funded entirely form private sources, please forgive me for my ealier post in the Merc Complex thread. How could anyone complain that private dollars are providing something that adds so much to McKinney and provides so much benifit to Dallas.

The MATA systems as it is today is really terrific. It's not a great mode of transit, but it is an important part of Uptown and should absolutely be preserved. However, I would not be in favor of using TIF money to expand service DT, unless MATA makes effective public transit its primary objectective. DT needs too many critical infastructure improvements to spend money on anything that does not add real value. I would love to hear from MATA advocates facts that support DT expansion and why its is an important infastructure improvement to DT.

My opinion could easily be swayed by a good argument. I think alot of people share my opinion and would love to see MATA grow DT if its really going to make a difference. And again, I don't mean to detract in anyway from MATA's considerable accomplishments.

[barrycb]

Even I don't know for sure, but I'd say possibly as soon as within the next month. Just wrapping up the final details right now. I'll let you guys know as soon as I hear something.

TG2


Any expansion updates?

[CityLove]

I was under the impression that MATA recieved the marjority of its operating funds from DART and Uptown PID -both funded by taxpayers dirrect and indirrectly. If I'm wrong (entirely possible) and MATA is funded entirely form private sources, please forgive me for my ealier post in the Merc Complex thread. How could anyone complain that private dollars are providing something that adds so much to McKinney and provides so much benifit to Dallas.



You are correct--those are our two primary sources of operating funds. However, I guess what I was referring to was direct tax funds, coming from the government. What we receive now are monies which, yes, indirectly come from the taxpayers, but at the discretion of DART, which is allowed to choose what it funds, and the UPID, which is a voluntary taxation district. In my mind, there is a distinction between these organizations and taking money directly from the city coffers. If I should not be making this distinction, then yes, I was wrong.

And anyway, I still stand behind the fact that these are needed funds--and we are taking nowhere near the $65.5 million the Merc project will be using. We are set to receive a "paltry" $3 million from the Downtown Connection TIF for our project.

Re: Expansion Updates. We have our route selected, and are basically wrapping up the deal at the moment. I'm waiting on direction from our Board to release specific route details--I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Our expansion committee has been working tirelessly on this project for many months now, and I don't want to "steal their thunder" so to speak. Believe me, the minute I get the go-ahead, I'll let you all know.

TG2

[msutton]

if all goes as planned, when would expansion construction commence?

[tamtagon]

Our expansion committee has been working tirelessly on this project for many months now, and I don't want to "steal their thunder" so to speak. Believe me, the minute I get the go-ahead, I'll let you all know.
TG2

That's great!! I'm anxious and excited for the trolley become more visible.

You know, the West End folks really want an urban park, and MATA needs a big trolley barn, I wonder if there is a way to combine the two. The vintage trolley cars would compliment West End atmosphere/architecture, an olde time novelty theme would give unique, friendly character to the urban park, and the visibility would stimulate trolley ridership.

I really hope it's in the future for MATA to operate a generous fleet of vintage trolley cars retrofitted with all the modern conveniences. Without direct LRT access to most of Uptown, Oaklawn, East Dallas and much of the CBD combined with the rapidly growing residential population in these downtown neighborhoods, a five or ten minute trolley ride from one neighborhood to another - or- a five or ten minute trolley ride from a DART train station into one of the downtown neighborhoods could easily become a preferred transportation solution.

Rather than the cost, time and effort to update and maintain a fleet of vintage trolley cars, it seems that route priority allowing trolleys to get through the busiest daypart traffic congestion as quickly/more quickly than an auto would be the most daunting barrier should the transportation service goal of the MATA become more functional than recreational.

[CityLove]

if all goes as planned, when would expansion construction commence?

That I'm not sure of.

[WestTexan]

Thanks Trolleygirl - you are a very good advocate and spokesperson for MATA.

[drumguy8800]

Interesting to note.. google earth shows the MATA line turning southwest at St. Paul & Ross, running down Ross to Lamar, going south on Lamar to San Jacinto, and then going northeast to Olive, then northwest on Olive to McKinney. Future loop, already plotted?

[rantanamo]

I noticed that too. Was hoping it would plot future DART lines as well.

[CityLove]

Not any future loop as far as we're aware of. Our plans haven't been made that far in advance. Wonder how that got there??

[Haretip]

That sounds like the route that Huitt Zollars already did substantial engineering on. The plans were coming along, but the cost of the project far exceeded money on hand. Those plans were shelved.

[trolleygirl]

So haw are things moving along with the "Olive Loop"? I heard last week that it was back on the table and there's some funding out there????

[jsoto3]

Got this via email a moment ago:


This is an appeal to individual residents downtown to please consider writing a letter to show support for the efforts behind extending the McKinney Ave. Trolley Line into downtown. For the first phase discussion the trolley would spur off of McKinney Ave. down Olive Street on a dedicated lane and terminate at the Cancer Survivors Park which is adjacent to the DART Rail Station at Pearl Street. This course would also bring better connectivity into the Arts District as well and hopefully will spark momentum to continue service deeper into downtown. For downtown residents in particular, extending this already free trolley system will help us get around better and help us reduce our dependency on driving as often which in turn most likely will increase our quality of life with more mobility options.

Every trip begins with a first step and I can say with confidence that this effort can move forward with greater input from the downtown community. What works well is letters of support that basically states that 'yes I am for it and I see good potential in this first step'. If anyone has questions please feel free to call me at 214-403-8557.

Michael Anderson is the Vice Chairman of McKinney Ave. Trolley Authority and has lead this team effort since August last year, this team consists of representatives from the City of Dallas and DART. Your letter will ultimately be presented to the City of Dallas and other agency representatives to take action. If you can, please send your letter to Michael before mid August.

Please address your letter to:
Mr. Michael H. Anderson
Vice Chairman, MATA
1200 Ross Avenue, Suite 110
Dallas, Texas 75201

Re: Downtown Extension for MATA

Thank you for your support.

Don Raines Jr.

President; CDA Downtown Residents Council

[Mballar]

^dang, jsoto, you're just too quick. That message just came about 5 minutes ago. You scooped me. :)

I sure hope that everyone here on the forum, regradless of residence location, sends in a letter of support. Downtown Dallas needs this MATA extension now.

[CityLove]

Well, so much for ME getting to give the info to this forum. But I'll add my two cents--we definitely need everyone to show their support. Write those letters!!

[RobertB]

A spur down Olive as Phase 1? That's going to be interesting. Think of how long a round-trip on the trolley will take if it goes all the way down Olive, and then back up and down McKinney to St. Paul! You'd about need two routes -- a St. Paul line and an Olive line. That would give you double coverage along the busy McKinney Ave strip, but would make it more complex to get from Uptown to Downtown.

Or, perhaps you could run one of the cars along one end of Olive to the other, back and forth, while the main line runs like it has been.

Of course, if there's a Phase 2 that includes turning the downtown spurs into a loop, then there's no problem. But someone's got to figure out how to schedule things for the unknown years between Phases 1 and 2.

Here's an updated map; existing line in red, Olive Spur in pink, likely Phase 2 routes in blue (dark blue for the more unlikely route). Note that I'm running a track from Olive to the new Car Barn on San Jacinto. Somewhere in a previous post, someone told me that the cars would go down San Jacinto a ways before backing into the east side of the barn. If Phase 1 doesn't include an extention down St. Paul, then the car barn will have to connect to the new line from the east.

[CityLove]

To all:

We've had a huge team of architects, urban designers, utility company reps, City transportation officials, DART officials, lawyers, and others working on this route for a long time. While I can't go into all the particulars on why this route was chosen (the reasons are numerous and complicated), believe me, it was most definitely the best option. It's already been hashed and rehashed, and the need to debate it and propose other routes and wonder what will happen just isn't really there. Trust us, we'll handle it. You've got the best forces possible working on this project, some really great minds putting forth some amazing effort, and this route (which I have specifically been holding back information of to respect Michael Anderson's wishes) is the best way to go. There WILL be future expansions, and MATA will handle the route in the mean time quite well.

That being said, I'm sure people will still debate. Feel free, but do it knowing how complicated the process is, and trusting that there are very solid reasons behind this decision.

And be happy that we are expanding into downtown!:D

Not to open up a can of worms, but as MATA's spokesperson/advocate on this forum, I will answer questions to the best of my ability, and the ones I can't answer, I will find the answer and bring it to you.

Trolleygirl2

[tamtagon]

Not to open up a can of worms, but as MATA's spokesperson/advocate on this forum, I will answer questions to the best of my ability, and the ones I can't answer, I will find the answer and bring it to you.

Trolleygirl2

Does MATA intend to run eventually to the Convention Center?

[incrediculous]

Don Raines promotes this extension as though it will facilitate better uptown-downtown commuting?

I just don't see it. The MTA is too slow, too irregular, and too impractical to be sold to the public as a mass transit alternative. The trolleys seem to barely toot along at 15 miles an hour. Factor in stops and it's about as fast as a brisk walk.

Granted, DART will buy into it - and they'll continue subsidizing the MTA as a mass transit line between uptown and downtown. And in the mean time, little else will be done to meet the rail public transit needs of the area.

Unless the MATA undermines its original mission and starts going with modern trolley cars like the ones in Europe... then we'd be talking! Those things are sleek, speedy, reliable and air conditioned.

Trolleygirl, please don't take my critique personally. I like the MATA. It's just, I like it as a preservation society and tourist novelty. Anything else strikes me as scope creep.

One question about the proposed spur. Will it invalidate the tiny St Paul spur? What's the point of having this midget-spur stop short of downtown just a few blocks south of Olive?

[aceplace]

Is there any chance that the MATA cars can share the DART tracks to get to the West End and Convention Center?

In Portland, Oregon, that is exqctly what happened. There was a heritage trolley line that diverted onto the MAX right of way to go downtown...

[Haretip]

Aceplace,

MATA overhead is powered to 600 volts Direct Current (actually 650 VDC at the rectifier, but nominal voltage is 600 and it drops as low as 550 VDC by the time you get to current St. Paul terminus).

I can't quote the actual number off the top of my head, but I think DART runs 825 VDC or 750? The excess current would need to be dealt with to prevent rapid failure of the equipment on the MATA cars.

Probably the primary concern for DART is the thought of running together a 1906 wooden streetcar with a modern steel light rail vehicle. Would not be good for the occupants of the MATA car.

At one time, the speed limit for the DART rail in the street was the same as MATA - 20 mph. However, the DART car can accelerate to this speed much faster, and the old cars would probably take longer to get through the CBD, thereby gumming up the route for the LRVs.

Incrediculous,

You need to pay more attention to previous threads. MATA's plan is to build new replica style streetcars, including air conditioning. The ex-Tandy car performance they currently operate is comparable to the Portland streetcars, and it is likely that new cars will be built with the same PCC type running gear. The bodies will look like old Dallas cars, but would be ADA compliant and modern "guts".

Try not to throw out the baby with the bath water. Although this might not be the Eurotram system of your dreams, it is a step in the right direction to add more tracks to an electric street railway system into downtown that could be in future be the backbone of a wonderful intracity system with modern equipment. Although, as I have said in other threads, I am not as involved with MATA as I once was, I will continue to lobby for modernization of the rollingstock.

Also, MATA is not a preservation society. They are a transit authority that utilizes historic equipment. Many things they do fly in the face of preservation principles - primarily operation of the "artifact", which consumes the artifact and ruins the historic "fabric".

Regarding the St. Paul spur, my understanding is that it would become a non-revenue section of track use primarily for charter service and/or held in reserve for future extensions. TGII, correct me if I mispoke on that.

[incrediculous]

Thanks Haretrip.

Since they are a transity authority, why do they insist on historic trolleys? If the MATA's goal is to provide transit, wouldn't it be more effective to provide transit with newer cars?

[Mballar]

Thanks Haretrip.

Since they are a transity authority, why do they insist on historic trolleys? If the MATA's goal is to provide transit, wouldn't it be more effective to provide transit with newer cars?
He already answered your question in the post immediately before yours.


You need to pay more attention to previous threads. MATA's plan is to build new replica style streetcars, including air conditioning. The ex-Tandy car performance they currently operate is comparable to the Portland streetcars, and it is likely that new cars will be built with the same PCC type running gear. The bodies will look like old Dallas cars, but would be ADA compliant and modern "guts".

[incrediculous]

I suppose "replica style" threw me off, or maybe I'm just an idiot. The later being more likely.

[Mballar]

^I doubt that! :)

[CityLove]

RIDE THE TROLLEY FOR RELIEF!

News release <O:p</O:p

For immediate use<O:p</O:p

August 31, 2005<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

Help the hurricane victims by riding a streetcar??<O:p</O:p


YES!! YOU CAN!<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

On Monday, September 5<SUP>th</SUP>, you can help those on the Gulf Coast by sitting around! <O:p</O:p

The McKinney Avenue Trolley has been running in Uptown Dallas since 1989. Not since then has McKinney Avenue seen FIVE STREETCARS RUNNING AT ONCE. Monday, September 5<SUP>th</SUP>, you’ll be able to see this historic event—AND HELP THOSE DEVISTATED BY HURRICANE KATRINA AT THE SAME TIME. <O:p</O:p

All money donated in the fareboxes that day will be sent to the American Red Cross to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina. <O:p</O:p

Use your Labor Day holiday for good. Take a ride on the trolley from 10 AM to 10 PM and put some money in the farebox to help those in need. Checks can be made out to MATA, or we will accept cash as usual. At the end of the day, all money will be counted and MATA will write a check to the American Red Cross. 100% of the money donated on Monday will go directly to the victims of Hurricane Katrina.<O:p</O:p

To the Media: We are available to do live shots or taped segments featuring a streetcar leading up to this event. We can also do interviews for radio or print media. Please call to arrange this for any day leading up to the event—even Monday morning!<O:p</O:p

McKinney Avenue Transit Authority


www.MATA.org (http://www.mata.org/)<O:p</O:p

[trolleyguy]

This is so awesome that y'all are doing this. It makes me love the trolley even more. :D

[RobertB]

I attended the last of the DART 2030 Transit Plan (http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=4385) meetings, and I had the opportunity to ask about the role of streetcars as a fixed-guideway alternative to buses. We discussed the merits of streetcars -- in particular, the fact that the streetcar rails add a permanence to the route that you don't get with a bus, and the public's overall perception of rail-based transit as superior to riding a bus.

While the DART reps were interested in streetcars as part of the transit picture, they're not focusing on it. And their reason is simple: it's not their job. DART sees itself a regional transit authority, and its 2030 plans clearly show that they're committed to big-picture items. Streetcar lines, and the development they engender, should be primarily driven by the city, not the transit authority.

One DART rep pointed out Atlanta (and another city I can't recall) as an example of a model DART would like to follow. The city, business groups, and other entities are responsible for planning, funding, and building the streetcar lines. That's the "capital improvements" part of the picture. The transit agency -- DART -- then would fund the maintenance and operation of the line. Currently, our MATA system seems to be caught in a sort of limbo -- DART funds 50% of MATA, but it's not clear to me how much of that will go to the upcoming streetcar expansion vs. just keeping the cars running and investing in new rolling stock. I got the impression that DART would like to simplify the issue, with a clearer division of responsibilities. But we didn't get very far into that discussion.

All that said, there's good news coming next year. In "a few months," DART will start the 18-month process of studying a location for the "second downtown transit mall" -- I'll discuss this in more detail tomorrow in the DART 2030 thread. The study is set to include streetcar options -- an essential part of the process, in my opinion, especially if the second line is underground. In fact, the reps said that the DTD study will cover streetcar potential within a three-mile radius of downtown! That area would encompass Downtown Oak Cliff, the Medical/Market area, Uptown/Cedar Springs/Lemmon, Ross Ave to Greenville, and even the Fair Park/South Dallas/Lamar loop I proposed in the State Fair 2005 (http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=4368) thread (post 33).

[tamtagon]

Not to open up a can of worms, but as MATA's spokesperson/advocate on this forum, I will answer questions to the best of my ability, and the ones I can't answer, I will find the answer and bring it to you.

Trolleygirl2

Does MATA intend to run eventually to the Convention Center?


In "a few months," DART will start the 18-month process of studying a location for the "second downtown transit mall" -- I'll discuss this in more detail tomorrow in the DART 2030 thread. The study is set to include streetcar options -- an essential part of the process, in my opinion, especially if the second line is underground. In fact, the reps said that the DTD study will cover streetcar potential within a three-mile radius of downtown! That area would encompass Downtown Oak Cliff, the Medical/Market area, Uptown/Cedar Springs/Lemmon, Ross Ave to Greenville, and even the Fair Park/South Dallas/Lamar loop I proposed in the State Fair 2005 thread (post 33).

Has MATA expansion been put on the shelf until DART finishes it's 18-month process of studying a location for the second downtown transit mall?

Has DART begun to study?

Will Pacific Ave transit mall finally get grade separation?

How soon will ALL the downtown LRT stations be determined and fixed so that complimentary trolley/streetcar routes can be built?

How many Trinity River Park trolley stops will there be?

[CityLove]

Well, unfortunately, there is no longer a MATA representative on this forum. I can tell you that the plan to go down Olive St. all the way to Bryan has NOT been abandoned, and they are going full-steam ahead on it. I myself am anxiously awaiting the announcement on this project. As for the other questions...I can't answer any of those.

[billdun262]

How many cars can the current MATA barn hold?

[CityLove]

How many cars can the current MATA barn hold?

Precisely the number they currently have. 5 operating cars plus the dining car, which is being restored in spare-time. When the Ben Carpenter car comes back from being restored in Alabama, there won't be a place to store it unless the dining car gets moved. Timeline on that car is late 2006 or spring 2007, at least as of this past summer. Things may have changed since then.

[tamtagon]

I think the trolley barn should be in The West End.

[Dr. Thunder]

What ever happen to trolley/street cars running on Jackson street?

[rantanamo]

Don't know if anyone watches NBC5 news, but they just ran a short story on the fact that bond money was approved for an extension 10 years ago, and that an extension down Olive St all the way to the Dart Rail line is to begin construction soon and be completed in 2008.

[gc]

Good to hear. Approval 10 years ago? Wow, what has taken so long.

[rantanamo]

All they said was something like, political wrangling and red tape has delayed the start of the project. I'm sure the trolleyites on this site could shed much more light on that than I.

[CityLove]

All they said was something like, political wrangling and red tape has delayed the start of the project. I'm sure the trolleyites on this site could shed much more light on that than I.

At this point, no. As I've stated earlier, there is no longer anyone on this forum directly affiliated with MATA. I don't know any more than you do. I will be seeing the trolley folks tomorrow...I'll ask them about this then.

[RobertB]

This was in today's Quick, the DMN's self-proclaimed "my kinda news" (because it's news... kinda). I can't find a reference at the main dallasnews.com site, but it's in the Quick Hits (http://www.quickdfw.com/news/citystate/stories/DN-cit--quickhits_12ick.ART.State.Edition1.18828451.html) section of the tabloid:

McKinney Trolley to link with DART trains

The Dallas City Council unanimously passed a resolution yesterday supporting an extension of the McKinney Avenue Trolley to the center of downtown, so that it connects with Dallas Area Rapid Transit's red/blue rail line.

[tamtagon]

This was in today's Quick, the DMN's self-proclaimed "my kinda news" (because it's news... kinda). I can't find a reference at the main dallasnews.com site, but it's in the Quick Hits (http://www.quickdfw.com/news/citystate/stories/DN-cit--quickhits_12ick.ART.State.Edition1.18828451.html) section of the tabloid:

McKinney Trolley to link with DART trains

The Dallas City Council unanimously passed a resolution yesterday supporting an extension of the McKinney Avenue Trolley to the center of downtown, so that it connects with Dallas Area Rapid Transit's red/blue rail line.

That's great and everything, but how about extending the trolley to connect Uptown, the red/blue rail line, the Elm-Main-Commerce corridor, the Farmers Market, and the Convention Center?!?!?!

Finish the job, already.