Uptown: Walmart Grocery [Hall & Lemmon]

[JIMPETERSON2000]

Wal-Mart tries inner city again
Neighborhood Market is planned; reactions are said to be positive


07:14 AM CST on Friday, November 14, 2003

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

After being rebuffed last year from building a discount store near Love Field, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. isn't giving up on the inner city.

The nation's largest retailer has contracted to buy a site at Hall Street and North Central Expressway with plans to build one of its Neighborhood Market grocery stores, real estate brokers say.

Wal-Mart is the fastest-growing grocer in the Dallas area.

Joe Dingman, who represents the site's sellers, said the proposed store has gotten a favorable response. "I had a call from someone downtown, and they viewed it as nothing short of phenomenal," he said.

The five-acre, vacant tract is adjacent to one of the city's highest-density housing districts and is visible from the freeway.

The supermarket would be the second grocer to locate in Dallas' booming Uptown area. Albertsons Inc. opened a store a few blocks away at McKinney and Lemmon avenues in 1994.

Since then, developers have added thousands of apartments and condominiums to the area.

A Wal-Mart spokeswoman contacted Thursday couldn't confirm the plans. A timetable for construction and the store's opening were unclear.

"It's long overdue. Albertsons has been the only one serving that market," said Jill Tiernan with real estate broker Weitzman Group. "The inner city is very hot right now."

Developer Neal Sleeper with Cityplace Co. said the addition of the retailer in the area would be a plus. "We could use another grocer," Mr. Sleeper said. "It will be good for the neighborhood."

Real estate brokers and property owners in the area say that the Hall Street site – which at one time was envisioned for a high-rise office or residential building – is selling for more than $30 per square foot.

Grocers that for years ignored the inner city to concentrate on fast-growing suburbs have looked back to the areas around downtown in recent years.

Albertsons has also considered locating a second store east of downtown in the Ross Avenue corridor, and H.E.B. has also looked at the area for one of its new urban concept stores.

Brokers say the giant discount chain is likely to be more successful building an Uptown grocery than it was with its previous Supercenter site near Love Field.

"The site is zoned for commercial development. It's right on a major freeway," said broker Newt Walker.

In 2002, Wal-Mart proposed building a Supercenter store on Mockingbird Lane near the Park Cities. But the project stalled when the retailer ran into stiff opposition from area homeowners.

Earlier this year, Wal-Mart opened a Dallas Supercenter on Interstate 30 and Cockrell Hill Road in the Pinnacle Park development west of downtown.

Wal-Mart's share of the Dallas grocery market has grown to more than 16 percent, twice its share in 2001. The company is expected to soon rank as the area's largest grocer, based on the volume of grocery sales at its Supercenter and Neighborhood Market stores.

Wal-Mart has four Neighborhood Market stores in the Dallas area averaging between 40,000 and 50,000 square feet. The company recently received approval for a fifth Neighborhood Market store in Plano.

E-mail stevebrown@dallasnews.com

[gc]

I am not sure I like this location.....

It ain't easy to get to....

This could also ruin the quaint uptown feel....IMO

[Columbus Civil]

I guess most of you are experiencing a collective orgasm right now. You're getting your Walmart.

All kidding aside, this is good news for the Uptown/Downtown area. My only problem is that this site is not easy to get to. Although it's right on Central, freeway access is poor and very congested. But I'm just a short walk away, so that doesn't bother me so much :)

Also, this should effectively kill any efforts to bring a grocery store into downtown proper any time soon.

[Haretip]

Me neither.

I assume the tract is north of Hall street backing up to the cemetery.

Hall Street between McKinney and Central is an absolute mess, and unfortunately, the cemeteries on both sides hold little promise for widening. This might be an impetus to repave the street, but this store is going to generate more traffice on a bottle-necked street.

I'm not agin it, but I hope they do it right.

[rantanamo]

The look of it is what I'm curious to see. The others of this type I've seen are all really ugly. All white with green lettering. Sort of like a tudor cottage roof design. Hopefully this is one of their urban type designs.

As for that collective orgasm crap, I hope you are kidding. Uptown vs the Love Field site are simply two different monsters. The Love Field site was in need of anything, and probably didn't even need that Wal-Mart to be urban. They just needed retail period. Lots of lower income folks in that area. Not so for Uptown. Will be funny if the switcheroo takes place and this ends up the standard ugly green and white with large surface lot. Wonder what kind of opposition there might be.

Only thing that will bring a CBD grocery is population. It's not uncommon to find 3 or 4 super market groceries at the same intersection in the burbs since there are lots of people. Downtown Uptown can have more people in a smaller area leaving a need for more choices. Just need the people.

[Columbus Civil]

calm down. it was a joke.

[CARTMAN]

Again, I'm happy to see the store coming but they really do need to focus on the design concept and improving the road conditions (since the city has failed to do it).
Plus, its time for some kind of price wars with regards to grocery shopping in the area. It seems like everytime I go into Albertson's the prices seem to get even higher and they are definitely taking advantage of the situation. Even my friend from New York thought the prices were kind of pricey for Dallas.

As for the grocery store Downtown, I think it still can be done just on a smaller scale. Bringing the Eckerds from underground and making it into a unique mini grocery store would work. But bringing something like that won't happen until the Main Street project is at near completion.

[patmns]

The bottom line is we will have another much need choice besides the Albertson's in Uptown. I agree, Albertspn's is taking advantage of being the only grocery store in the area, but can you blame them. They are in business to make money. If you keep raising your prices, and your clients keep coming back, you have a great situation. WalMart will out an end to that, and the Uptown consumers should see a direct benefit in the form of lower prices.

[JaeTex]

I would bet dollars to donuts that it will be the standard issue corporate design for a "neighborhood" market. I think the interesting question is which way will it face? Will 75 get the entrance, and the neighbors a view of its backside, or what? And what about parking? will uptown get a giant parking lot for people to park their cars and stupidly leave their valuables in the front seat (anyone else see that on Ch. 5 last night?)

And recall this is not a Wal-Mart, it is a neighborhood market, a grocery store, so other than the visceral hatred of anything wal mart, the love field etc. arguments don't apply. THey are two different beasts we are talking about.

Unfortunately this probably means I will become a regular customer of the evil empire. But at least I'll walk (maybe).

[Columbus Civil]

I've been in one before, and it was fairly decent. It had a red brick exterior, which I guess is their urban model?? I've seen one like this somewhere on Preston (I think), south of LBJ.

[dallastophoenix]

okay, okay, i was an advocate for the walmart location off mockingbird... not so much a fan for this area... however, it will bring a much needed grocery competitor - even though it's going to complicate the already difficult-to-manage intersection. it's not the best thing to go and take a picture of... but if someone happens to be around another "neighborhood market" store w/ their cam, please take a pic. i'm very interested in what uptown residences will be dealing with...

[mikedsjr]

If the people of Uptown are able to have a say in what it can look like, i couldn't imagine that it would stray to far from the character of the area. It shouldn't really cost that much more to make the exterior pleasing to the people in the area. Is there some type of Association around there that helps with that?

[patmns]

I have seen 2 Neighborhood Markets. They both looked completely different. One was pretty plain looking, and the other one looked more like a high end grocery store with hardwood floors. They both had the large parking lot out front, just like Albertson's has.

[JaeTex]

Any association that would cover that area probably only has any say on what the thing looks like if they are kicking in money. And since I think Wal-Mart probably has enough so that anyone else kicking in a few thou isn't going to effect their bottom line they can do probably do whatever the City will allow. plus since that land is vacant, any association in that area might have been drawn to specifically exclude that area, sounds silly but its true. There are a couple of vacant lots in state thomas not covered by the TIF because they were vacant and putting them in the TIF would make it too expensive to do anything with them, at least that's what I heard at a city meeting.

[psukhu]

That five acres would have been better served by a West Village type development. (I guess I can say the same about any vacant lots in uptown and downtown) Hey, it was for sale and they bought it. Can't blame them for stepping up and developing the land.

I hope this causes the city to fix Hall Street between 75 and McKinney Ave. The street and sidewalks are in bad shape.

So are we talking something similar in size to the Whole Foods on Lemmon? (building plus surface lot)

[evdallas]

well at least its a neighborhood market, but I still won't shop there. I wish albertsons would sell out to a grocery store that would make it something nice, or at least take the molded fruit and vegetables off the shelf.

[dallastophoenix]

i agree evdallas... however, now albertsons' mgmt will have to step up to make it nicer to keep customers from going to its competitor (hopefully...).

[LakeHighlands]

I know some of you guys are wondering what a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market looks like. Here is a store in Rockwall. The city made them build it all out of brick and stone. It looks really nice. If the neighborhood asks Wal-Mart to build a nice store they can or else they just put up a regular type Neighborhood Market. I would make sure that Wal-Mart does not build anything that does not fit the area. They are the wealthiest company in the world and have lots of money to design nice looks stores and can if the neighborhood wants it. It would not take them too much work to have a store that looks like the Flagship Tom Thumb on Northwest Hwy and 75 across from North Park Mall. The residents in Uptown need to be involved in how the store should look, like the residents in Rockwall did.

[LakeHighlands]

Front of Store

[LakeHighlands]

Pharmacy- All Stone and Bricks

[LakeHighlands]

The whole store

[LakeHighlands]

The residents in Rockwall didn't want to see the back of the store so Wal-Mart even built it into the side of a hill. The back of the picture.

[LakeHighlands]

I know some of you guys are wondering what a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market looks like. I posted some photos of of nice Wal-Mart Neighborhood Maket in the photos section.

[tamtagon]

I doubt that this grocery store will cause much shift in the pricing strategy at the Albertsons a couple blocks away. In fact, just the opposite may occur with the Albertsons stocking fewer staples and more specialty items - not a bad marketing move considering its affluent Uptown neighborhood.Three more outlets in the area might net an overall lowering of monthly grocery bills, but not just the one.

If located on the east side of Central Exwy, specialty pricing will be targeted at the price sensitive Latino customer rather than affluent occasion shopper living west of Central. It's all about the location at this point.

[dallastophoenix]

thanks for the pics! I was curious - and frightened before - of waht it could look like... not bad at all!! If it had a Tom Thumb sign on the front, no one would care anyway...

[Freaky D]

whoa whoa, so wait. is it for sure that they're gonna build that monster in uptown?! i mean, i don't care what it looks like. you can't say it still won't disturb the uptown swing of things. imo, it will change the way uptown looks and feels and even become in the future.

i like the way it looks and all but uptown is like the only great urban place in dallas right now and i don't want that to change. i've seen a few other impressive wal-marts like in plano and such but keep them there. the uptown/downtown dallas area doesn't need one and i don't think much of the people there want one.

[jammin]

There is a neighborhood store on Coit, between beltline and arapaho. I have a hockey game in that area, ill try to leave early and take a pic.

[tamtagon]

Uptown, is an urban paradise for national brands names. A chicken in every pot, a car in every garage, a Starbucks on every corner and a Walmart in every neighborhood. The whole of the west village is so predictable, there is absolutely no reason why Walmart should miss out.

[mikedsjr]

What's the difference between Suburban Willow Bend and Urban Uptown? Nothing. They are both snobby areas that feel ill towards the name Walmart.

[Columbus Civil]

Just because a better class of people resides in a certain area does not necessarily make that area "snobby".

[mikedsjr]

Money doesn't make people a "better class". But i digress.

I don't like shopping at Walmart myself. But Walmart Neighboorhood is a nice smaller grocerystore than you usually find in Suburban areas. I like it. And since people like smaller in urban areas, Walmart Neighboorhood seems like a great fit.

IMO, Walmart Neighboorhood is completely different animal from the store Walmart. Central Market seems like a fit for this area. High priced foods, but they have exotic foods. But you also would probably have to make a Central Market about 4 or 5 floors high just to fit the whole store into a decent size space. That's a huge store.

And IMO, Walmart Neighboorhood seems more like an urban store than a Suburban store.

[rantanamo]

Don't know how much time most have spent in that area, but for those who haven't it's just simply different than the rest of Dallas. That's not a statement about the class of people. I'm referring to the fact that most of the parking is on the curb or in parking garages. The setbacks are at the sidewalk. Has more of the look of the northeast, but newer. I think most here are just hoping for something that fits the design standard of the area. Something more innovative and urban than their typical neighborhood store. Afterall, this is a different type of neighborhood than others in Dallas. They (Wal-mart) has done this with stores in other cities, and were going to on Mockingbird. Doesn't mean anyone is snobby. And I agree that the neighborhood Wal-Marts do have a smaller less suburban feel than other supermarket type of stores. But the content of the store is not the issue. It's the exterior that I think we are looking at.

[mikedsjr]

I can understand that. Its a unique area and you want everything to be up to that unique standard. What i don't understand is why hasn't a place like the West Village created a storefront specifically for a grocery chain to go in there? I think this is the problem in this area. No one has designed a location for a grocery store. Maybe that is Uptowns problem.

Maybe Walmart should spell there name backwards. That would be unique. :) Tarmlaw Groceries.

[gc]

Originally posted by mikedsjr
Maybe Walmart should spell there name backwards. That would be unique. :) Tarmlaw Groceries.

LOL, that was funny.

[rantanamo]

Good place for Stanley Yelnats to shop. I agree about the storefront. I guess there's a fear of the store leaving if it's a one tenant or one large 2 or 3 small tenant storefront.

[Columbus Civil]

Disagree, tamtagon. The grocery business is extremely competitive, and Walmart is the nation's #1 grocer in sales (and they're a relative newcomer - they're not even in California yet). Albertson's has been struggling nationide for quite a while. I doubt they'll be able to compete with Walmart's low prices. When it comes to grocery value, this is a win-win situation for Uptown.

[evdallas]

If you have ever lived in NYC, or any dense city where you walk to the grocery store, what have you noticed about their grocery stores? I have noticed, they are about 1/5 to 1/10 the size of our grocery stores and there are alot of them, Its not the Uptown areas fault that no grocery store wants to take the concept of a smaller urban store and use it. They are the ones with no vision, they are the ones who don't try to fit into the context of the area.

[patmns]

I agree with you Columbus. Wal-Mart has always been very aggressive with their pricing. Business Week and Forbes have even been quoted as saying Wal-Mart’s pricing practices borderline on predatory, meaning they are willing to loose money in the short term, hurt their competition enough to force them to reconsider their ability to do profitable business in the area, and possibly force competition to close shop. Wal-Mart then makes out big in the long run. Even if the competitor does not close shop, Wal-Mart has built up enough of a client base to become profitable. The situation in Uptown is perfectly suited for this, as it is a 1 on 1 competition between Wal-Mart and Albertson’s.

[MustangMonkey]

It wouldn't be very smart to build a small grocery store, when someone esle can build a large one on the vacant lot down the street. I't aint NY yet.

Many people in NY, SF ect... don't own cars, so distance is very important. Eveyone in Uptown loads up their trunk, just like anywere else in the city.

[JaeTex]

Actually it's not one on one. My wife doesn't like that Albertson's so we usually end up at the Tom Thumb on Lovers & G'ville or occassionally, the closer, Tom Thumb or Kroger on Cedar Springs. So if Wal Mart builds a dump (which I doubt) they might get our "no time to go any farther business" but they won't get our "weekly shopping" business any more than the Albertsons currently does.

[tamtagon]

When Kroger opened directly across the street from Tom Thumb on Cedar Springs, how much net change resulted in your monthly grocery bill? If you only buy sugar, flour, milk and orange juice, you may have benefitted from the value pricing of the competitive attention getters. It is common practice to make little or no profit on many staple items that almost every household keeps fresh - simply to get shoppers in the door. The non-stable 60% of the items you purchase in an average month will not see a shift in price from one store to another; these items generate 80% of store profits.

Having a Walmart grocery store may allow Albertsons to abandon broad "specials" on the spectrum of pantry staples, and focus on more specialty items. Walmart will only represent the first attempt in keeping up with the population growth of the area. It is not sharpening the competion, rather it is increasing POS & specialty item availability probably segragated on a store by store basis as directed by the resulting shopper demographic.

Not until this part of town fills out and provides a more stable demographic profile will prices be affected by competition. As it is, the demographic character of Uptown could appear to shift only slightly in one year, but enough to put have an net affect on a broad range of business channels within several retail markets.

[mikedsjr]

I'm not good at this but i am going to give a shot.

What is Dallas? What is it that people want it to be? What should it be? Well, I will give my opinion on these questions. I believe Dallas is a new Urban City born out of vehicular transportation. Its not NYC, Boston, Baltimore, San Francisco, or even St. Louis. And from reading, it was no mistake that cities those cities resided by big bodies of water for the very purpose of harbors. Dallas wasn't built when people up north took a week to go from NYC to Buffalo. Dallas isn't the city that really came into play until the 20th century. When Dallas reached its first 10,000 people in population, all the cities i listed above were above 75,000. These were walking cities. People who lived in these cities lived close together. They weren't spread out. A large part of this was for protection. The closer they lived to each other the safer they were.

People in here talk about how they want Dallas to be like NYC and other Major World Cities. But the fact is, those cities survived and thrived and became what they were because of circumstances. Dallas' circumstances are completely different and always have been. The core of a major city is always the heart and soul. But being a vehicular city, Dallas isn't as centralized as most major cities are. The people of Dallas don't want Dallas to be an Urban city, but they do want it to be a better city. And certainly centralizing the infastructure and branching it out to the people is what they want. DART is an example of that.

I like how Uptown has blossomed. Its great to see that area look and feel better. For younger people its better. Its closer to the bar scene. Its closer to the clubs. Its closer to more singles.

Don't tell me that because NYC does it, Dallas needs it. To me that sounds like 'green grass' syndrome where everything is better somewhere else.

Walmart can be a viable solution. Just hold on and see what the plans are.

[tamtagon]

I like how Uptown has blossomed.

I like to think of Uptown as more of the start of a bud which may blossom one day.

[evdallas]

I live in uptown, so I know that everyone drives their cars, but you don't have to. As far as the grocery stores go, I realize why there are none here, I am just saying the reason that there are no urban grocery stores is that Albertsons is here and so no small urban grocery store is going to do well competing with a parking lot suburban store. Everyone has the get in my car and drive mentality. The area is dense enough to support small grocery stores though. I have lived in less dense urban areas where I had no car and walked to get my groceries. I was pointing out that if we want to create an urban feel and get people out and walking there should be more grocery stores and they need to be smaller. Its just something I observed from living in an area where people walk because its harder to drive your car. I wish everything was designed that way.

[rantanamo]

No one is saying because New York has it, Dallas does. But Uptown does have characteristics that are more New York like than past Dallas-like. We are talking about Uptown Dallas, not Lake Highlands or Bent Tree. In this case New York is the more appropriate example for the ideal.

As for the what Dallas is lecture, I think we all know what made Dallas what it is. I think what this board discusses is sustainability, a smart and more clean future Dallas, and a safer healthier Dallas. I personally don't want a more urban Dallas because it's neat, or because New York is that way. I am personally not a fan of New York. What I am a fan of is sustainability. I care about health. I care about the city maximizing it's potential. Coincidentally urban solutions work best for some of these things. I have no hate for the burbs. I grew up there. But then I see empty walmart or Kmart buildings with huge crackling parking lots I realize that this must not be the way. When I see 20 year old suburban neighborhoods decaying vs beautiful hoods like Oak Cliff or Greenway Parks still thriving and gaining in property value I wonder what is the best way. When I see myself lose 40 lbs after giving up the car to ride the light rail to work, I wonder what I was doing wrong. Then I look at the weather report in the summer and see day after day that the concentration of bad air quality is over southern Collin and Denton County as well as the majority of traffic, I wonder what is a better way for Dallas to be. Nothing to do with what New York has or being squeezed together like sardines. I just want what's best longterm.

[mikedsjr]

tamtagon,

That's probably a better way to put it.

EV,

Sure, that might eventually happen in that area. The demand is not strong enough to warrant one yet, else someone would have tried it already. And from driving through that area, Cars are still major source of transportation.

[gc]

well said rantanamo

[gc]

Wal-Mart's Effect On Economic Development
Wal-Mart's intense focus on low prices is forcing its suppliers out of the U.S. to places that have lower standards of living and less regulation.
http://www.planetizen.com/news/item.php?id=11325
Nov 20, 2003, 09:00 am PST

Contributed by The Practice of New Urbanism Listserv

Wal-Mart is the world's most powerful retailer, and has become Adam Smith's invisible hand in the market. The company "does more business than Target, Sears, Kmart, J.C. Penney, Safeway, and Kroger combined... But what almost no one outside the world of Wal-Mart and its 21,000 suppliers knows is the high cost of those low prices. Wal-Mart has the power to squeeze profit-killing concessions from vendors. To survive in the face of its pricing demands, makers of everything from bras to bicycles to blue jeans have had to lay off employees and close U.S. plants in favor of outsourcing products from overseas... Wal-Mart has also lulled shoppers into ignoring the difference between the price of something and the cost. Its unending focus on price underscores something that Americans are only starting to realize about globalization: Ever-cheaper prices have consequences. Says Steve Dobbins, president of thread maker Carolina Mills: 'We want clean air, clear water, good living conditions, the best health care in the world -- yet we aren't willing to pay for anything manufactured under those restrictions.' "


For full story --> http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

[tamtagon]

so, while Walmart employees thousands of Americans, it may have forced just as many out of vocations and into lower paying jobs w/o benefits? The owners of Walmart are 4 of the 10 richest people in America, and are partly responsible for the increase of poverty. Unlike Sears, Pennys, Wards and Woolworths et. al., it will not be the inability to offer product lines the public wants that brings the end of the Walmart reign, it will be the realization that they took the for profit model too far.

[mikedsjr]

Your right rantanamo. And i did rant too long. My apologies. I see the NYC pop up in this forum and it just sets me off. I like DFW for what it is and can be. And sustainability is definitely the way to perserve the land, nature and animal space.