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drumguy8800
05-27-2004, 01:40 PM
Council's $100 million dream: providing electricity without view
09:42 PM CDT on Wednesday, May 26, 2004
By EMILY RAMSHAW / The Dallas Morning News

When Dallas Mayor Laura Miller envisions the future Trinity River project, she sees scenic parks, busy sidewalk cafes and sold-out luxury condos. Hundred-foot-high, tapered steel power poles don't fit into this rosy picture. But the city's utility company says they might have to, if Dallas wants to keep up with growing demand.

As Oncor – soon to be TXU – maps out a new, high-capacity power line along the Trinity River, city officials are lobbying for a compromise that would keep it far from sight. And the mayor said she would do what it takes to remove existing electric eyesores in coming years – even if it means the city paying millions of dollars to bury the lines.

The City Council's dream plan would cost the city nearly $100 million over the next six years. City staffers haven't determined how to pay for such projects. But they have recommended earmarking funds from Oncor's franchise fees or adding a surcharge to Dallas ratepayers' electric bills – at least for a portion.

"If you have a luxury condominium, you can't have windows looking out at big towers and wires across their path," Ms. Miller said. "We can't have economic development like this. At the end of the day, we're going to have to take existing lines and put them underground." For more than a decade, the city has allowed Oncor to erect transmission lines along the Trinity River with little thought toward development.

"The city treated the Trinity like a back alley – a place to put power lines, trash and sewers," council member Ed Oakley said. "You can't just snap your fingers and turn your back door into your front door." Ms. Miller said the city made a mistake in granting Oncor the river right of way. And with plans for development along the corridor, she said, "It's something we need to reconsider."


Overriding power needs

But in the case of one proposed line, the city's power needs might override aesthetic concerns. Since 2001, Oncor has been crafting plans for a 345-kilovolt transmission line from Irving's Norwood Switching Station to Dallas' West Levee Station, which services downtown's central business district, West Dallas and Oak Cliff. Oncor's original blueprint took the path of least resistance – the Trinity floodway. David T. Gill, regulatory affairs director for Oncor, said the new line would serve as a backup to an existing line, which runs from Lancaster to the West Levee Station. He said the region's electric load is growing at a rate of 7 percent a year, twice that of the Electric Reliability Council of Texas' state average.

"The line is primarily to reliably serve the D/FW area," Mr. Gill said. "You have to operate so that when you lose a line, nothing happens." Last fall, City Council members contacted Oncor with an offer of their own – a route that would complement future Trinity River projects. The staff recommendation includes aerial structures along the median of Irving Boulevard and across the Sylvan Bridge, and underground lines for a mile along the West Levee at Canada Drive. Oncor officials will send an application for the new line to the Public Utility Commission in Austin late this summer. The application will include several proposed routes, including the city's recommended route. Oncor also will mark the company's preferred path – but officials say they're not sure whether their choice will mirror the city's.

"Certainly the city's expression of community values in picking this route is something we're going to weigh very heavily," Mr. Gill said. The PUC is expected to select a route and approve construction by late 2005. Oncor hopes to have the line in use in 2006. Mr. Gill said transmission lines are typically buried only if there is no space for overhead lines. When customers want their lines buried for aesthetic reasons, the cost burden falls on them, he said. "We expect them to pay the difference as a fairness issue," Mr. Gill said. "And that's what we've told the city." The city's proposal to bury one mile of line would cost $12 million. At first, the city entertained thoughts of putting the entire line underground – at a cost of $72 million.

Feasible but expensive

"Sure, it's feasible," Mr. Gill said. "And it's expensive."

City officials say they are pleased with how Oncor has responded to their concerns about the planned line, but they have other power lines in mind, too. In the next three years, council members hope to free up the Trinity River by consolidating existing lines from the East Levee onto Irving Boulevard and converting aerial lines near the future Woodall Rodgers Signature Bridge to underground lines. These projects would cost a combined $24.6 million. And by 2010, the mayor said, she hopes to bury the power lines along both levees – at an estimated additional cost of $60 million. Ms. Miller said the development anticipated on the Trinity River levees would be an extension of downtown Dallas. The central business district has its power lines buried underground, she said, so the Trinity River Corridor should, too. "Why would you build the [Woodall Rodgers Signature] bridge and have it obscured?" Ms. Miller said. "If we have to pay to put them underground, that's what we're going to do."

drumguy8800
05-27-2004, 01:46 PM
Go Miller.. I hate above-ground power lines, especially in the immediate areas surrounding downtown. Provides some rather bad views. Another power-line that's in a high-profile spot that needs removal is the one that follows the course of the DNT.. ugh, that thing is huge. And in SW Dallas, in our only "mountains..," any view of one of Dallas' few geographical treasures is blotted by probably 10-15 seperate transmission lines. (Near Mountain Creek off I-20..) :-\..

dallastophoenix
06-10-2004, 03:15 PM
i keep finding more things i like about miller...

jsoto3
06-10-2004, 07:06 PM
From the article above:
'The staff recommendation includes aerial structures along the median of Irving Boulevard and across the Sylvan Bridge, and underground lines for a mile along the West Levee at Canada Drive.'


http://dallasmetropolis.com/exhibitionhall/data/500/13trinity_power_lines.jpg

I like the spirit, but I'd appreciate a bit more foresight:

What happens in 25 years when Industrial Blvd. becomes 'Trinity Boulevard' and it is the spine of Dallas's most vibrant and dense mixed-use district, lined with mid and high-rise residential structures, yet there are aerial powerlines running down its median? Shouldn't we bury the lines along their entire length now rather than later, when it will be significantly more expensive to do so and when it will be even more likely to discourage development?! Just a thought . . . .

trolleygirl
06-14-2004, 12:54 PM
I'm just mad at the surcharge on myu TXU bill. I'll be heading to Reliant if I have to pay for this BS.

Haretip
06-14-2004, 03:13 PM
Oh, yeah... That'll help. They're only going to charge the TXU/Oncor customers. (Note the deep sarcasm).

Sorry, TG, it doesn't matter who sends you the bill. They all have to contribute to the maintenance and upkeep of the distribution system.

trolleygirl
06-14-2004, 06:48 PM
Oh, yeah... That'll help. They're only going to charge the TXU/Oncor customers. (Note the deep sarcasm).

Sorry, TG, it doesn't matter who sends you the bill. They all have to contribute to the maintenance and upkeep of the distribution system.

What? Deeply embeded sarcasm from you?? Never!

I know, I'm still mad at the prospect. It sucks and I don't want to have to foot the bill for it. A surcharge should go to the voters. Period.

js
07-08-2004, 10:05 PM
These are the power lines that I HATE, every time I try to take me some pichas...they are there on both side of the trinity river ruining the beautiful view of the skyline from Oak Cliff or Southwest Dallas.

http://www.oakcliffstyle.com/photography/powerlines1.jpg
http://www.oakcliffstyle.com/photography/powerlines2.jpg
http://www.oakcliffstyle.com/photography/powerlines3.jpg


by the way that is I30, where the future Calatrava Bridge would be...and those powerlines would really make that bridge look awful...

gc
07-08-2004, 10:26 PM
yeah, they are extremely distracting....

drumguy8800
07-08-2004, 10:35 PM
nice pictures anyway! just a little croppin' here and there. what street did you get those pictures from? Or are you on the levee? wha?

js
07-08-2004, 10:38 PM
I was on the Levee, right next to I30.
Everytime I go they make it harder to get in there. Today I had to jump over a matress, a bunch of puddles and go through grass and weeds that were about 3ft high.

freewaytincan
07-09-2004, 12:16 AM
yeah, they are extremely distracting....

That's why my recent photoshoot at dawn was a bust. Those power lines made it impossible to get the best pictures.

Oh yeah, and never fall asleep on a DART train. You will wake up suddenly and with a jump. It makes people laugh.

trolleygirl
07-09-2004, 03:45 PM
I know those pesky power lines....all over town, blocking people's views of everything all the time. So why is it then, that in all the promo pics and postcards and convention stuff with the sykline from a southern viewpoint all mysteriously lack the power lines? It seems like they are only distracting to people who are looking for a reason for them to be distracting. Really, y'all drive all over town, all the time. There are power lines everywhere. Do you notice? Do they bother you? No. You are conditioned to tune them out. So what. If we are going to pay to bury them, I want them buried everywhere. Including those power lines in the big, fat, honking middle of the Great Trinity Forest, the ones that nobody seems to be bothered by at the scenic vistas and overlooks.

drumguy8800
07-09-2004, 03:52 PM
the ones i'm bothered by are as follows: the ones that completely cover Dallas' hill country, in between Mountain Creek Lake and Joe Pool Lake, the ones, yes, in the Great Trinity Forest.. the ones that run along the DNT in ND, the mess of them just east of DTD mainly on Ross St, the ones, yes, in the Trinity River Basin.. and then, on a sidenote.. I really hate Dallas' major arterial lights. They need to cut the cobra-head-crap and start using the kinds that are on Central XPY, the kinds in Victory (not really, those need only be in touristy areas), but the ones I really want the city to start using are used along major arterials in Addison, DeSoto, and Carrollton. (only some of them.) they are very unobtrusive, provide way more light, are attractive.. they're kind of a deep brown, and right at the top are two square lights. The lights I really hate in Dallas are the ones that have one high light and one low light, and it alternates along the road.. I do, however, think that the cobra-heads running along the newly-redone- portion of Trinity Mills in FND look nice, because they are a nice shade of green and are balanced.

js
07-10-2004, 12:03 AM
I know those pesky power lines....all over town, blocking people's views of everything all the time. So why is it then, that in all the promo pics and postcards and convention stuff with the sykline from a southern viewpoint all mysteriously lack the power lines? It seems like they are only distracting to people who are looking for a reason for them to be distracting. Really, y'all drive all over town, all the time. There are power lines everywhere. Do you notice? Do they bother you? No. You are conditioned to tune them out. So what. If we are going to pay to bury them, I want them buried everywhere. Including those power lines in the big, fat, honking middle of the Great Trinity Forest, the ones that nobody seems to be bothered by at the scenic vistas and overlooks.
It all depends on where you take the picture trolley girl.

I really hate power lines they are ugly. Think of this way though would you live right next door to one of those HUGE power lines. I don't think so. Another thing, I know they are structurally sound but what if we get a big storm or tornado and knocks a few of those down? Or any power lines, they always cause problems and are a danger when they are up in the air like that.

Hidden underground is the best way to go and cheaper in the long run. There should be no maintenance since there will no trees to block them or cause any problems.

hamiltonpl
07-20-2004, 10:18 AM
Asthetically, I really prefer burying power lines. A street cannot be attractive if it is lined these power lines.

The only problem with burying the power lines is future growth. If you have a lot of new power needs (like a new Trinity Blvd. graced with several highrises) you need more lines. Digging near the buried lines is expensive and dangerous. You could shut down all existing power.

CTroyMathis
12-11-2005, 12:22 PM
The October '05 update:
http://www.dallascityhall.com/dallas/eng/committee_briefings/briefings/20051017_trc_power.pdf

Aporkalypse
12-11-2005, 08:34 PM
I'm all for burying power lines as well but it's quite expensive.

Still, when a major ice storm hits it'll save us all a lot of trouble to have them underground.

drumguy8800
12-12-2005, 10:06 PM
I know it's pretty much common practice to stick the lower-voltage lines underground, but how much of a hassle is it to put these high voltage transmission ones underground? Does it require boring a big tunnel..?

It bothers me that they want to put transmission lines in the Industrial Blvd median.. and the Irving Blvd median. Talk about development-catalysts. :rolleyes:

jsoto3
04-18-2006, 10:35 PM
From the article above:
'The staff recommendation includes aerial structures along the median of Irving Boulevard and across the Sylvan Bridge, and underground lines for a mile along the West Levee at Canada Drive.'


I like the spirit, but I'd appreciate a bit more foresight:

What happens in 25 years when Industrial Blvd. becomes 'Trinity Boulevard' and it is the spine of Dallas's most vibrant and dense mixed-use district, lined with mid and high-rise residential structures, yet there are aerial powerlines running down its median? Shouldn't we bury the lines along their entire length now rather than later, when it will be significantly more expensive to do so and when it will be even more likely to discourage development?! Just a thought . . . .
The May '06 update:
http://www.dallascityhall.com/committee_briefings/briefings0406/20060417_TRC_Power.pdf

Power transmission lines to stay above ground in median of Industrial Blvd and across the Trinity along Sylvan, but then potentially/hopefully below ground along Canada Drive to West Levee switching station. The City must make case to Public Utility Commission for final approval. Apparently the City is anticipating high-density development west of the river. That's not news to us, but it is interesting that it is their official stance (despite protest by neighborhood residents/activists). Too bad they can't bury the entire line . . .

jsoto3
05-03-2006, 06:27 PM
CBS11 Video:
http://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=9266@ktvt.dayport.com

As far as I'm concerned, $120 million is worth it to get these power lines under ground rather than along the median of Industrial.

gc
05-03-2006, 09:09 PM
CBS11 Video:
http://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=9266@ktvt.dayport.com

As far as I'm concerned, $120 million is worth it to get these power lines under ground rather than along the median of Industrial.

Agree 100%. They have got to think with the end in mind.

JasonDallas
05-03-2006, 09:54 PM
So why is it then, that in all the promo pics and postcards and convention stuff with the sykline from a southern viewpoint all mysteriously lack the power lines?

Because we deliberately go out of our way to move to the position at which the power lines aren't in the way, often creating a weaker composition. Sometimes we sit for a while in Photoshop to remove them too.

Jason

jsoto3
05-24-2006, 08:03 PM
From WFAA/DMN:
Plans for Irving Blvd power lines threaten businesses

Article: http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa060523_lj_txu.160077f9.html
Video: http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=67202&catId=104

JUST BURY THE DAMN THINGS, NO MATTER THE COST!! IT WILL BE WORTH IT!

Boredkid
05-24-2006, 08:28 PM
that 100 million to bury them could go to so many other better things for trinity park.

crescentboi
05-25-2006, 07:21 AM
that 100 million to bury them could go to so many other better things for trinity park.

But just wait until in 20 years they decide "Well we probably should have done it so how much is it going to cost now....what $400 million!" or some such thing. You'll never have an amazing park with HUGE power lines going right over it! As jsoto said, just bury them!

tamtagon
05-25-2006, 08:06 AM
I would rather have the powerlines left in Trinity River Park than strung along Industrial Blvd.

jsoto3
06-14-2008, 04:40 PM
http://www.wfaa.com/video/index.html?nvid=254562&shu=1