DTD: The Park (Woodall Rodgers Deck Park)

[drumguy8800]

Project Website:
http://www.wrpproject.com/

http://dallasmetropolis.com/exhibitionhall/data/507/1woodallrodgersparkdeck.jpg

"oooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhh......"

http://www.trinityrivercorridor.com/assets/images/WRBridge01.jpg

"aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....."

I know that the Calatrava bridges are really being considered.. but is the "Park Deck" a serious consideration? Its not in the bond program, right? And there's no funding source yet, right? Do we have a construction timeline? Cause.. those parks look really cool. Kind of like Boston's "Big Dig." I swear.. Dallas has awesome highways. US 75, reconstruct of I-635.. and soon, Woodall Rogers!

[bloodandpopcorn]

Those parks happening would be the single best thing to build the area's character. Almost more important than the new Center for the Performing Arts to the arts district, and absolutely vital to creating a pedestrian-friendly environment in this area of Urban Dallas.

Didn't someone say this was almost certainly going to happen in the near future, that funding was already being looked for?

[drumguy8800]

It would certainly be a great connection between the Arts District and Uptown...

[JBB]

There was a thread not long ago that quoted an entry from Front Burner saying that a private/public effort to build the park deck over WR is underway.

[dallashorn]

My understanding is that while there has been talk about decking Woodall Rogers, it likely won't happen due to the high cost of re-engineering the support columns for the walls of the freeway. I sat in on a couple of Project Pegasus meetings and they were trying to design the new canyon so it either immediatly had the deck or could have the deck added in the future. The design to add a deck in the future for Woodal was not included in the build out.

[JaeTex]

See, and I thought I heard that Woodall WAS originally designed for future decking.

Project Pegasus (last time I went to a meeting, which has been a while) was planning for decking but didn't include it, i.e. the city could cover up the ugly thing if they wanted but expect no help from the powers that were imposing the project on us in the first place.

[rantanamo]

^After that DMN report, I bet you start seeing money pop up for stuff like that. And I could have sworn it was in the newspaper that Woodall was built for decking. I bet some money magically appears for that one too.

[gc]

I am almost positive that it was built for decking as well...

[freewaytincan]

I am almost positive that it was built for decking as well...

It was, and if you look at the way the structure was designed and the sheer depth of the canyon, it was clearly engineered for it. That, and I once read something from about ten years ago that mentioned its design being for decking.

[drumguy8800]

I really don't think its THAT ugly. Its certainly not "attractive" like NCX.. but it certainly doesn't look bad. I think the elevated portion is horrendous. I-345 (Section in between US75 and I-45).. where its elevated.. is kind of sickening as well. It makes this huge barrier between downtown and Deep Ellum. Although it provides EXTREMELY impressive views because of its higher-than-street-level design.. Eh. I-345 isn't that bad.. it kind of provides a feeling of protection when driving near it. Or something. Woodall Rogers would definetly look better when there's decking.. and I wish that the entire thing was in a canyon. Then, we could have a huge park providing a friendly entrance to downtown instead of the smaller decking currently proposed. But, the elevated portion needs to be there so that they can build the bridge.

Yeah, it was designed for decking. I remember reading an article on its construction.. and that was in there.

[JBB]

I think the elevated portion is horrendous. I-345 (Section in between US75 and I-45).. where its elevated.. is kind of sickening as well. It makes this huge barrier between downtown and Deep Ellum.

Doesn't the depressed section essentially create a similar barrier? I'm not sure I see much of a difference.

[drumguy8800]

Doesn't the depressed section essentially create a similar barrier? I'm not sure I see much of a difference.

Hmmmmmmmm. you're right. I was wrong- Just looking, elevated highways appear to be a barrier.. just kind of a "wall" that keeps you safe. But, you can walk under them freely.. and they allow for much easier pedestrian movement. Woodall Rogers doesn't exactly accomodate walking across.. and neither does I-35E or I-30. Really, Woodall in its elevated portion and I-345 in its elevated portions are the easiet to maneuver around... therefore, the least "barrier-ish." Thanks for pointin that out, JBB.

[Foucault]

they allow for much easier pedestrian movement.
Would you really walk under a highway overpass unless you had a very good reason?
If the pedestrian movement is there, then it may keep on going. But a highway inhibits pedestrain movement any way you look at it.
And 75 is not attractive...it's a highway!

[drumguy8800]

Would you really walk under a highway overpass unless you had a very good reason?

Maybe.. walking from the West End to Victory? Where they spent tons of money to make a connection? Or maybe downtown to Deep Ellum..?


And 75 is not attractive...it's a highway!

And I meant attractive like "it looks nice." Its a very nice looking highway, and unlike normal concrete behemoths, it is a pleasure to drive down.

[Quiz03]

Originally Posted by foucault
Would you really walk under a highway overpass unless you had a very good reason?


Maybe.. walking from the West End to Victory? Where they spent tons of money to make a connection? Or maybe downtown to Deep Ellum..?

West End to Victory is a good reason. If you go by your criteria would you ever wander underneath a 10 lane freeway for the hell of it? Those underpasses are dark, dingy, and not in anyway a desireable walk. A decked freeway park would be infinitely more preferable to walk next to.

Why would they spend tons of money to make a connection unless there is something inherently wrong with the pedestrian connection in the first place.


Compared to other highways and what Central was it is a nice highway. But give it a few more years and it won't be such a pleasure to drive on

[Lakewooder]

In a couple of months, we'll be glad for the shade!

[rjlevins]

I just have to say that I love 75. I live in Austin now, and there is nothing like driving back through Dallas and taking 75. It is a beautiful highway. I have to put up with ghetto 35 (not referring to DFW) everyday.

[drumguy8800]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH... . ha. *falls over.*


ghetto 35 (not referring to DFW)

I-35 is much nicer in Austin than it is in Dallas and Fort Worth. especially Dallas. ESPECIALLY Dallas. It's being redone though... :D... (Project Pegasus..) Unfortunately, the areas in north dallas and south dallas are also in serious need of repair. (I think "The Southern Gateway" plans to work with the I-35E/US67 merge/split.)

[drumguy8800]

Stupid gasoline powered cars. Ruining central. Stupid weather. Ruining central. Is there a way to wash off all the oil thats in the middle of central's lanes? Or absorb it? They should shut down the entire highway and do some tidying.. fresh coat of paint, trim plants, detrash it, and put that stuff in the middle of the lanes that absorbs it. Hi-Dri, I believe. or else its just gonna have to be rebuilt again sooner or later.

[freewaytincan]

Doesn't the depressed section essentially create a similar barrier? I'm not sure I see much of a difference.

I like the elevated 345 section in some ways. It's very industrial, kind or cool if you ask me. It just needs some cleaning up and a new paint job. You can use those steel girder highways for aesthetic reasons you know.

[pariah]

Whats the latest, if anything on this? Wish we could get it done by the time the Center for performing arts is done

[Lakewooder]

Looking about from tall buildings -- there are many 'areas' close to downtown that are very intriguing. Putting a few more pieces in place, and eliminating the perception of the freeway loop, it's easy to see how downtown could be redefined from Fair Park/Deep Ellum to SouthSide/Old City Park/Cedars to Uptown/"LoDo"/CityPlace

[freewaytincan]

Actually, I kind of like the way the Central - 345 - 45 bridge works. It managed to save most of the Deep Ellum buildings the way that the 30 elevated did for the T&P in Fort Worth, and while it was good to get rid of that over there, the bridge between downtown and Deep Ellum adds an atmosphere that is hard to come by.

I probably sound like I'm either stupid or not making clear sense, or both.

[dallashorn]

I may be wrong, but I would be surprised if Woodall Rogers ever gets decked. It seems to me that the city would hope for economic development to be spurred by sinking that kind of cash into a project. I think this is occuring without the decking. Besides aestetics, what value is created? In contrast, decking in the canyon on I-30 south of downtown would possibly create economic development on both the downtown side and south dallas side of I-30.

[pariah]

a bit of news about this, they talked about it in the downtown section of the dallas business journal. apparently all the guys they talked to in the roundtable discussion liked the idea, thought it was very possible

[bloodandpopcorn]

dallashorn, it would make it much more inviting to walk from Uptown to the Arts District and vice-versa. Right now I don't have too much problem with it, but I can see how ugly overpasses are not an entirely welcoming monument. The parks would add extra beauty to the Arts District area, reduce the noise level, provide more spaces for pedestrians to relax, and hopefully (by that) increase foot traffic in the area, which would stimulate retail, etc. Or so it seems to me.

[dallashorn]

bloodandpopcorn, don't disagree on your points, i just think when it is all said and done it will be decided that the $$ to be spent on decking woodall would be better used on alternative civic projects(on a value created basis)

[Kelley USA]

I would love to see it happen- but there is very little incentive for the city to spend that sort of cash in that section...

[hamiltonpl]

I think it would look great -- but the return on investment would be small. Even smaller than Jerryworld.

[tamtagon]

Assuming it is possible, maybe the decking will be a gift from some of Dallas' self-made millionaires. The surface area provided would be a perfect place for a series of green houses, gardens and sculpture displays. I think all pedestrian paths would be best if moved away from the cross streets and led through the garden. The park area should function as an extention of Nasher Sculpture Center & DMA.

[rantanamo]

Why are we talking about city money? Wasn't a group from the Crescent the ones raising $27 million privately for this.

And I disagree on ROI. The city stands to make far more tax revenue from adjacent development. Remember the adjacent lots would be among the most expensive real estate in the city, and the precedent of expensive real estate being built near is already a known. Much more of a known that even adjacent development to the Trinity River Project. Interesting that they will do this on I-30 where there is almost 0% chance of development across the parks but not on Woodall.

[bloodandpopcorn]

Yeah, I really think that with these parks, we could see some skyscrapers go up just north of Woodall, overlooking the park and the arts district. Without them, we may still see such towers, but I think it will take longer. If I had the money, I'd be willing to pay out my nose for a 40th floor condo overlooking three beautiful parks and the arts district, but probably would not if what I saw off of my balcony was ugly Woodall. Maybe it's not such a big deal for the real big money people, though...

[rantanamo]

Wasn't this actually a big deal for a group in LoMac? What thread was it on?

[gc]

Wasn't this actually a big deal for a group in LoMac? What thread was it on?

I thought so too...on both of your assumptions. I could not find the thread when I looked last night...

[RobertB]

I took a picture (attached below) of a typical section of the Woodall Rodgers canyon. I can't find the thread that had the great drawing of a deck over the canyon, to connect the Arts District with Uptown/McKinney. There was some discussion there about whether the canyon would support a deck, with some noting that it was designed for future decking, and others saying that it wasn't structurally feasable.

I don't know about the engineering behind it, but the section below includes 14 easily visible cracks in the retaining wall. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence...

[freewaytincan]

I took a picture (attached below) of a typical section of the Woodall Rodgers canyon. I can't find the thread that had the great drawing of a deck over the canyon, to connect the Arts District with Uptown/McKinney. There was some discussion there about whether the canyon would support a deck, with some noting that it was designed for future decking, and others saying that it wasn't structurally feasable.

I don't know about the engineering behind it, but the section below includes 14 easily visible cracks in the retaining wall. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence...

I've never thought of those walls as permanent. Ever since I heard about the decking possibility, I just assumed they weren't mean to stay for long.

[jsoto3]

Exactly. The existing walls are temporary. All they have to do is drill new piers in the median between the walls and the frontage roads and build a 1-2 foot thick wall down the center of the canyon. Deck girders would then span between them. The piers would have a new wall poured infront to tie them together and become the new canyon/tunnel wall. What I don't know is if they would rebuild the street bridges and how they would reconcile the different grades at each bridge. I would bet, given that it would probably be the easist way to do it, that they would tear down the existing bridges and build a continuous deck from Akard to Pearl with new street crossings. The deck would have to warp to accommodate the significant grade differences. The St. Paul exit ramp might pose a problem. It would be difficult to maintain its existing design. I'm not sure how to handle this one. Never-the-less, to make my point, the decking of Woodall Rogers is very possible and in my opinion, very probable.

[psukhu]

Great News!

It looks like this is going to happen after all:

2005-02-11

Imagine five years from now standing over Woodall Rogers Freeway and not seeing or hearing it, but seeing grass and trees. Well, a public-private partnership is set to round up the cash, to try and make it happen. Chris Heinbaugh reports.

WFAA Video: http://www.wfaa.com/perl/common/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=www.wfaa.com/050211_1800park_cdh.wmv

[rantanamo]

sweet

[St-T]

:D

The years 2009-2015 will be an exciting time to live in Big D... The "Deck Park".. completion on projects in the Arts District... Victory... the Trinity. WOW!!!!

[Tnekster]

This is unbelievable....I mean how many great things can be happening at the same time. It almost seems like a new one every week.

[CTroyMathis]

This has been one of my more favored projects. Ditto the 'sweet.'

[Tnekster]

If Dallas can get this done for 60 million it would be a bargain. Millenium Park cost 500 million. Granted M was filling a much larger hole than this one would but this kind of greenspace linking DT/UT would be priceless for what would follow.

[texman]

Dallas keeps getting better and better.

[Columbus Civil]

That council-manager form of government is so inefficient.

[drycreek]

Well that depends on what size city you're talking about. Also, Austin has just recently offered a huge raise to their city manager Toby Futrell because she has done such an outstanding job... and she turned it down because city services needed the money. Cool huh. Anyway, I think the council-manager form can be quite effective depending on the circumstances. Dallas, I believe is in need of the strong-mayor. City hall is waaay too factioned.

[texman]

That council-manager form of government is so inefficient.

Yea, I'm still wondering what happend to the streetcar plan for downtown. Good thing this is going to be pushed by private intrests.

[mdunlap1]

I've been thinking for years that covering Woodall Rogers in order to merge Downtown and Uptown is far and away the best thing Dallas could do for itself.

If this gets done, 2010-2020 in Dallas will see the explosion for Downtown that 1995-2005 has seen in Uptown.

Excellent stuff. Let's hope this great idea doesn't go the way of the Mockingbird Tunnel proposal.

[frankchitown]

Excellent stuff. Let's hope this great idea doesn't go the way of the Mockingbird Tunnel proposal.
It shouldn't, they don't have to dig under Highland Park to deck the freeway. I can't think of any group that would strongly oppose this plan.

[St-T]

I think the official announcement on the funding and final construction plans is next week.