Turtle Creek Master Plan

[Foucault]

Civic leaders have Turtle Creek dream
09:28 PM CST on Tuesday, February 3, 2004
By DAVE LEVINTHAL / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/020404dnmetturtlecreek.5db9e.html

Envisioning a renaissance of beauty and accessibility along the Turtle Creek corridor, Dallas civic leaders say they will present city officials with a master plan for the area this month. About 70 community and political leaders attended a private meeting Monday night to review the plan, which included a presentation from one of the nation's notable urban planners, Boston-based Antonio DiMambro. "It can truly fulfill the dream of Turtle Creek," Dallas council member Veletta Forsythe Lill said of the plan after attending the meeting.

The plan, which the sponsoring Turtle Creek Association will not release publicly until later this month, includes provisions for cleaning Turtle Creek, improving lighting and infrastructure and enhancing the urban design of the area, Ms. Lill said. The civic leaders are also discussing creating a conservancy – a private organization that raises funds with city assistance – to generate money for the project, she said. "We are looking at Turtle Creek as an ecological resource for the city," said Mr. DiMambro, who has helped Dallas officials coordinate other urban-renewal projects. "The idea is to bring the park back to a level ... that the city deserves."

Lyle Paul, a Turtle Creek Association director, said Mr. DiMambro has undertaken "an extremely careful analysis of the area" in creating the plan, which the association will first present to the city Park and Recreation Board. The Turtle Creek corridor is a strip of city land roughly within the boundaries of Highland Park, downtown Dallas, East Dallas and the Dallas North Tollway. Its hallmarks include upscale real estate, pricey restaurants and lush greenery along the Katy Trail and Turtle Creek Park. It also is home to the Frank Lloyd Wright-designed Dallas Theater Center. Ms. Lill and Mr. Paul said they did not know how much the project would cost. "They have some very lofty goals," said Mr. DiMambro, who declined to offer specifics. "And this should become a wonderful asset for the city."

E-mail dlevinthal@dallasnews.com

[jsoto3]

Awesome! I can't wait to see the plans!

[tamtagon]

Thanks for this post jsoto.

During the mid 90's, I collected water samples near the theater center for the Texas Watch program. The water was polluted then, and I'm sure it still is. I really hope one recommendation is a resurrection of the creek through and extending Reverchion Park to the Trinity.

[jsoto3]

I didn't post the article, but I agree with you about 'daylighting' the creek through Reverchon Park. When I have time, I am going to redesign the HarryHines/McKinnon/Tollway/Stemmons/OakLawn intersection (all of which occurs right above the buried creek) into a monumental gateway/park/roundabout that celebrates a daylighted Turtle Creek at its center and onto which new development can be addressed. This would permit a seamless connection between Uptown and the Trinity river via an extension of the Katy Trail, across (over or beneath) a reconstructed Stemmons, connecting with the Old Meander and on to the River. It is a place/infrastructure which has immense unrealized potential. I am curious to see if DiMambrio has addressed this.

[CTroyMathis]

DiMambro, bring it. Bring it.

[tamtagon]

Right, thanks Foucault.

When planning your gateway park, are you considering that what we know as Stemmons Expressway could be "downgraded" into an uber-boulevard? Move thru traffic onto a newly constructed I-35 which flanks the Trinity (the structure of the highway also serving as a levee/lake containment). Potentially, the tollway assumes the general path of Oaklawn south of 35.

[mikedsjr]

Originally posted by CTroyMathis
DiMambro, bring it. Bring it.

I so agree. After reading that article that GCarey put up a few weeks ago and the link you put up regarding DiMambro, I am so on board with whatever he does.

Turtle Creek is one of my favorite places in Dallas. Its SOOO Photogenic. I preparing myself for when I have time to go down there and take photos. Just love it. I drove the whole Turtle Creek route actually today before even reading this and I am elated to hear this news.

[gc]

Touching up Turtle Creek
Plan envisions a world-class park in the middle of Dallas
08:50 PM CST on Thursday, February 19, 2004
By FRANK TREJO / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/02204dnmetturtlecreek.c9fb.html

Dallas received a gift Thursday, and now it's up to city officials and the public to decide what happens to it.

The Turtle Creek Association presented a plan to the Dallas Park and Recreation board to transform the Turtle Creek corridor into a park for the entire city. The plan, developed for the association by Boston-based urban planner Antonio Di Mambro, calls for major improvement not only to the park's vegetation but also to infrastructure, including bridges, waterway, flood plain and parking. The "broad-brush" cost estimate: $60 million, to be split between the public and private sectors. Both park board and Turtle Creek Association members stressed that the presentation Thursday merely begins a public process of developing a plan that could turn the parkland along the creek into a world-class site. "We call this a plan for Turtle Creek because we did not want to be so presumptuous to think this was to be the master plan for Turtle Creek," said Robert Edsel, chairman of the association's committee that worked on the plan. But he urged the board to consider doing something about improving the area and making it into a "signature park."

"A world-class city, in my view, takes advantage of what natural beauty it has," he said. The Turtle Creek Association, founded nearly 20 years ago, is made up of area residents and business people. Its mission is to preserve and enhance the Turtle Creek area. Paul Dyer, director of the park department, called the association's plan a "gift" that articulates what is needed to stop the deterioration of the park and make it accessible to even more of the city's citizens. The Turtle Creek corridor is a strip of city land roughly within the boundaries of Highland Park, downtown Dallas, East Dallas and Oak Lawn. It is lined with upscale real estate, restaurants and lush greenery along the Katy Trail and Turtle Creek Park. Among the structures in the park is the Dallas Theater Center, designed by architect Frank Lloyd Wright.

Problems

During his presentation to the board, Mr. Di Mambro pointed out that the park faces numerous problems, including erosion and pollution, distressed vegetation, flood plain issues and maintenance problems. Mr. Di Mambro described his vision of a "necklace of green pearls" that would be recreational but also allow for smaller, quieter gatherings. Each of those pearls would contain distinctive vegetation. In addition, the green character of the creek would spill out and meet the surrounding urban areas, with gateways leading people to the park. Mr. Di Mambro also recommended refurbishing the theater and making it the centerpiece of Dean Park, and reconfiguring Sylvan Drive as a pedestrian promenade. He also recommended the construction of new buildings, such as a visitors' center. The architect also suggested a gateway to the area at Lemmon Avenue with a sculptural icon and improved landscaping. The plan for the project includes a preliminary completion date of 2010.

Officials' reaction

Park board members for the most part appeared to be impressed by the presentation and the fact that the Turtle Creek Association had taken on the cost and time to develop the plan. "I think it will only enhance the area," said board member Michael Todd King. However, board member Delia Jasso expressed concern that there was not enough community input and that the association had not considered how the plan might fit in with the city's Renaissance Plan for improving the park system. Mr. Edsel said the association had worked with a small group to develop the plan quickly because of the park's deterioration and because of increasing residential and commercial development. And, he added, private fund-raising efforts need to begin. Mr. Edsel and association president Lyle Paul emphasized that there needs to be a public hearing process and that the plan could be modified then. The board will decide later whether it will go through a public hearing process.

E-mail ftrejo@dallasnews.com

[214]

$60 million thats alot,but im sure its worth it,BRING IT BRING IT!!!!

[tamtagon]

The plan for the project includes a preliminary completion date of 2010.

Officials' reaction

Park board members for the most part appeared to be impressed by the presentation and the fact that the Turtle Creek Association had taken on the cost and time to develop the plan. "I think it will only enhance the area," said board member Michael Todd King. However, board member Delia Jasso expressed concern that there was not enough community input and that the association had not considered how the plan might fit in with the city's Renaissance Plan for improving the park system. Mr. Edsel said the association had worked with a small group to develop the plan quickly because of the park's deterioration and because of increasing residential and commercial development. And, he added, private fund-raising efforts need to begin. Mr. Edsel and association president Lyle Paul emphasized that there needs to be a public hearing process and that the plan could be modified then. The board will decide later whether it will go through a public hearing process.

E-mail ftrejo@dallasnews.com

I havent noticed anything else mentioned about the plan presented by the Turtle Creek Association to the Dallas Parks and Recreation board. Anyone? Anyone?

[Columbus Civil]

What is the city's Renaissance Plan?

[cdallen2004]

KOOL

[jsoto3]

I can't believe that there has not been any press on this, but I met a fellow last night at the Comprehensive PLan Workshop named Bob Patton with the Turtle Creek Association, who informed me that there will be a second public hearing tonight for the Turtle Creek Master Plan. It will be at 7pm in the Auditorium of the Scottish Rite Hospital (sw corner of Maple & Oak Lawn). Planner Antonio Di Mambro will be present.

[tamtagon]

Planner Antonio Di Mambro will be present.


OH MY GOSH!

jsoto3, are you going, I hope?

[gc]

^ What?

[jsoto3]

Yes, I'll be there.

[CTroyMathis]

Keep us tuned in, Jorge, on how it goes tonight. I'd definitely like to know more.

[lamborghini_dude]

Turtle Creek is one of my favorite places in Dallas. Its SOOO Photogenic. I preparing myself for when I have time to go down there and take photos. Just love it.
Yes, Turtle Creek is very picturesque. I dont think anyone here on the forum appreciates it more than me.

[gc]

^ Jorge, I am dying for an update. Plans, dates, funding??

[jsoto3]

Sorry, I have been very busy as of late and haven't had time to post. I will need to collect my thoughts. I will try to post something tonight after I have gotten alot of work off of my plate. I'll just say now that it is exciting!

[gc]

mmmmmmmmmmkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[Columbus Civil]

I guess it's good you're busy, but I'm getting impatient. ;)

[gc]

^ Me too!

[jsoto3]

OK, sorry for the delay. Here is the very short debrief (I didn't take notes):

The scope of the plan is only from Maple on the Southwest to Blackburn on the Northeast. It does not include Reverchon Park because it is already in its own master planning phase. The plan includes typical things that you would expect from such a plan: creek clean-up, more paths, better maintenance, etc. It then calls out for general infrastructure improvements such as bridge replacements, streetscaping (all the way up to Oak Lawn), better crosswalks (particularly at Lemmon, they showed a rendering that made it look almost like a plaza), etc. It proposes to turn Sylvan Drive (infront of the Dallas Theater Center) into a pedestrian promenade with a small amphitheater on the creek for outdoor performances. Provisions will be made to continue to allow fire truck access and drop-off service for the theater. Parking is apparently a concern to the planners and they propose a parking garage nestled into the hill by the Katy Trail with a building for theater administration, a cafe, and a terrace atop the garage. Di Mambro also encourages small programmatic elements such as coffee shops, news stands, bike rental shops, etc. to be scattered throughout the corridor. He also encourages more art works to be displayed on the grounds. Unfortunately, the most potentially exciting parts of the plan hinge on the whims of private property owenrs and I do not foresee them coming through. Di Mambro proposes that the last three remaining consequential lots that are directly contiguous with the Turtle Creek Parkland be purchased from their private owners for extensions of the park. These three lots are: 1. The 'Hole on Cole'; 2. the empty lot on Cedar Springs just south of the Katy Trail; and 3. the site where Hyatt intends to build the senior living center. 1 & 2 are proposed to become major gateways into the park from Uptown. The Hole on Cole site is proposed to have a visitors center/museum and perhaps a small restaurant. Both will have surface parking. The 'Hole on Cole' site will also have a TXU substation which has apparently been planned for some time. Site 3 is proposed to be a simple, nice open field, much as it is now, to be used for more active recreational activities which aren't possible now in the corridor, save for Reverchon Park. It would incude a continuous path on the south side of the creek and a reconstruction of the cantilvered boardwalk on the opposite side of the creek. They propose for the massive wall to become a large art wall for muralists. As noted before, this site site is currently planned to become a large senior living complex. To be honest, I liked the bigger idea of securing these properties to be included in the parkland, but I don't care for the specific designs. I don't want to see any surface parking on these lots. I would rather see more intense mixed-use development in conjuction with smaller gateway parks. Anyway, unless alot of very rich people suddenly feel very philanthropic, I dont see any of these sites being secured. So, not including the procurement of these three sites, the plan is estimated to cost $60 million and is proposed to be completed by 2010, very agressive schedule. Councilperson Lill was present and noted that the proposed schedule is perhaps a bit too optimistic and that funds will have to be secured over a few bond periods. 50% of the total cost is expected to be raised privately. More public meetings are expected to be held in the coming months and the Turtle Creek Association Board is expected to approve the plan next summer. Then it goes to the City.

[lagunadallas]

JSoto3 --- Thanks for that! I'd like to add to the proposal a 24/7 police officer to keep people from parking and turning tricks in the Dallas Theater Center parking lot. I live a couple blocks up Blackburn from there and am sick of seeing those cars backed-in 90% of the time I drive by and not a cops in sight.

[hamiltonpl]

There needs to be lighting along the Turtle Creek trails at night. A little light for pedestrians would be helpful.

I walk through Turtle Creek and Uptown at night with my wife and we've seen homeless folks arguing with shrubs and the sidewalk. It can be a bit unsettling.

For now, it's a good thing I know kung-fu.

[jsoto3]

I forgot to mention that new lighting is also in the plan.

[Columbus Civil]

http://www.toonopedia.com/hongkong.jpg

[tamtagon]

I'm so glad an ampitheater is part of the plan for the Theater Center. I'm assuming the parking structure would also accommodate Katy Trail visitors??? Doesnt TXU still own the Hole on Cole??? That land may be the best shot for a philanthropic gesture.

The bike rentals, coffee/desert shop, roof top terrace - great. Did you get the sense that Di Mambro encourages the redevelopment of adjacent land east of the trail/park to include entertainment/dining venues with patron access to/from the Katy Trail? What is it, maybe half of the land immediately east of the Katy Trail is between Maple and Blackburn is ripe for mixed use development (currently aging garden apts, some condos??) which could put several very nice restaurants along the trail, possibly even some sidewalk cafes.

The new pedestrian crossing at Lemmon - is that planned as an extention of the ampitheater extending under the bridge? That is such a busy intersection I kinda think it's better to bypass the surface crosswalks and create a more pleasant cavern-like environment - perhaps even extending under Turtle Creek Blvd to provide unencumbered access to Lee Park.

[tamtagon]

So, not including the procurement of these three sites, the plan is estimated to cost $60 million and is proposed to be completed by 2010, very agressive schedule. Councilperson Lill was present and noted that the proposed schedule is perhaps a bit too optimistic and that funds will have to be secured over a few bond periods. 50% of the total cost is expected to be raised privately. More public meetings are expected to be held in the coming months and the Turtle Creek Association Board is expected to approve the plan next summer. Then it goes to the City.

Anyone know if anything has been happening toward a nicer Turtle Creek Park?

[drumguy8800]

The sidewalk along the southern side (EB) of Turtle Creek Blvd has either been rebuilt or repainted. The ramps are a grayish color and the rest of the walk looks like new white concrete..

[tamtagon]

Is this one gaining any traction?

[tamtagon]

ahunt,

What kind of attention is the Turtle Creek Master Plan getting the city council?




12-07-2004 10:26 AM

I can't believe that there has not been any press on this, but I met a fellow last night at the Comprehensive PLan Workshop named Bob Patton with the Turtle Creek Association, who informed me that there will be a second public hearing tonight for the Turtle Creek Master Plan. It will be at 7pm in the Auditorium of the Scottish Rite Hospital (sw corner of Maple & Oak Lawn). Planner Antonio Di Mambro will be present.

12-12-2004 08:33 PM

The scope of the plan is only from Maple on the Southwest to Blackburn on the Northeast.

Councilperson Lill was present and noted that the proposed schedule is perhaps a bit too optimistic and that funds will have to be secured over a few bond periods. 50% of the total cost is expected to be raised privately. More public meetings are expected to be held in the coming months and the Turtle Creek Association Board is expected to approve the plan next summer. Then it goes to the City.

[jsoto3]

FYI, the Masterplan has been completed for some time and is available for viewing on the 5th floor of the Central Library. I don't know what, if anything, has happened since its completion.

[Insidetheloop]

When will the dirt fly on all this stuff? Geez. They can't even re-open up the last 1/4 mile of the Katy Trail.

[ahunt]

The cost for the Turtle Creek Plan is somewhere in the neighborhood of $60M. I've met with Turtle Creek Association and Lee Park Conservancy reps to discuss, and my Park Board rep is working on this as well. I've ask the community leaders to help me prioritize projects so that we can tackle part of the total Plan (we won't have the funds to do all).

As for the rest of the Council's take on the Plan and support for funding, I don't know yet. Since we haven't finalized the proposal for the bond, I'm not in a position yet to gauge support from my colleages (I don't have any hard numbers to show them yet). We will know more in the coming months as staff finalizes their proposal and we get community input.

[Insidetheloop]

I wish dirt would start flying on more parks projects in Uptown/Turtle Creek. The popularity of the Katy Trail (it's hard to even jog down there with all the people in the evenings) shows that Dallas needs more hike/bike paths and green space.

I have seen the plaza plans that will link the Katy to the Turtle Creek path at Reverchon but it seems like everything is moving at a glacial pace.

[tamtagon]

Did Turtle Creek parks improvement dollars make this falls' bond vote?

Since the Hole on Cole and Hyatt assisted living center acerage both will be built upon, the total price to fix up the "necklace of green pearls" might not have inflated over $60 million since 2004.

[tamtagon]

The cost for the Turtle Creek Plan is somewhere in the neighborhood of $60M. I've met with Turtle Creek Association and Lee Park Conservancy reps to discuss, and my Park Board rep is working on this as well. I've ask the community leaders to help me prioritize projects so that we can tackle part of the total Plan (we won't have the funds to do all).

Hopefully, this plan will get some action this year.

[tamtagon]

Maybe the Turtle Creek Association and Lee Park Conservancy havent made a big push to beautify Dallas parks along Turtle Creek until Oak Lawn Avenue properties begin major redevelopment. Maybe I'm impatient. Part of the city's responsibility to the Turtle Creek Parks (Reverchon included) MUST include a complete rennovation of Oak Lawn Avenue into a pedestrian oriented city scape.

[tamtagon]

Did this get taken before the new city council was elected? If not, it should be a priority, along with a major pedestrian friendly overhaul of Oak Lawn Ave from the levee to Preston.

[gshelton91]

Anyone know what the current status of this is? Seems like i have seen quite a bit of work on the pools along the creek over the past year... I noticed some work on the banks of the creek north of the theater Center too.

[tamtagon]

The cost for the Turtle Creek Plan is somewhere in the neighborhood of $60M. I've met with Turtle Creek Association and Lee Park Conservancy reps to discuss, and my Park Board rep is working on this as well. I've ask the community leaders to help me prioritize projects so that we can tackle part of the total Plan (we won't have the funds to do all).

As for the rest of the Council's take on the Plan and support for funding, I don't know yet. Since we haven't finalized the proposal for the bond, I'm not in a position yet to gauge support from my colleages (I don't have any hard numbers to show them yet). We will know more in the coming months as staff finalizes their proposal and we get community input.

Are we any closer to seeing some action with this plan?

[sterling]

I think we need a high profile adoptee to spur this past the diddly-squat phase. I hear Laura Bush' schedule is freeing up a bit, and that she's becoming bored with reading to school kids. And this is practically in her future backyard, not that I expect her to take up power walking. And as Lady Bird Johnson is no longer with us, a new hero of that type would be a welcome catalyst as Dallas transcends from brownfield to greenfield. How about it Laura?

[LongonBigD]

I hear Laura Bush' schedule is freeing up a bit, and that she's becoming bored with reading to school kids. And this is practically in her future backyard, not that I expect her to take up power walking.

Well, maybe not literally in the Bush's new backyard. Word is that they are looking on Strait Lane (where else would a compassionate conservative want to live?). But you are right, this plan does need someone to spearhead it. Turtle Creek is a true gem for the city of Dallas. It's time to go to the next level so that it continues to be.

[UptownDallas]

Just checking in... any word on this thing? Seems like the folks at St. Regis would have interest in advancing this now that their adjacent project has been approved.

[tamtagon]

I think we need a high profile adoptee to spur this past the diddly-squat phase. I hear Laura Bush' schedule is freeing up a bit, and that she's becoming bored with reading to school kids. And this is practically in her future backyard, not that I expect her to take up power walking. And as Lady Bird Johnson is no longer with us, a new hero of that type would be a welcome catalyst as Dallas transcends from brownfield to greenfield. How about it Laura?

Well, it kinda seems like the only thing that will get Oaklawn's creekside parks prettied up is if it becomes a pet project for Laura Bush. The opportunity in Oaklawn to really pull off a thoughtfully managed urbanized gentrification plan the is still there, but the 'good-timing' is running low:

Syncronizing the community purpose of the Turtle Creek Parks, Reverchon Park, the Katy Trail with thoroughly overhauled street scapes on Oaklawn Ave (from the Trinity River Park to Highland Park) will expand the geographic area of the "big city" in Dallas. Commercialized, entertainment/recreation focused McKinney Ave needs Oaklawn Ave to become an urban-pedestrian environment bookend. The unnatural pressure for every new development in between McKinney and Oaklawn to have ground floor retail will subside as the bookended thoroughfares are groomed for highest possible concentration of foot traffic. New residential developments between McKinney and Oaklawn will be able to focus to provide more engaging interactions between a resident and his/her block.

[dfwcre8tive]

Turtle Creek's About to Get a Master Plan
By Robert Wilonsky in News You Can Actually Use, Actually
Wed., Nov. 25 2009 @ 9:50AM
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/

​While we're looking ahead at City Hall meetings, says here that the Park and Recreation Board will be briefed next Thursday on the Turtle Creek Master Plan. Which is ...? Well, specifics are hard to come by: City Hall's closed till Monday, and Katherine Kosut at Booziotis & Company Architects, who designed the plan on behalf of the Turtle Creek Association, is out of the office today as well. But the TCA's Web site has the broad-brush strokes of the plan, which has been in the works ever since Boston-based Antonio Di Mambro was commissioned by the association to conduct a study and make recommendations back in '04.

According to the TCA, the purpose of the master plan is to integrate ongoing improvement projects in the area -- including those involving the Katy Trail, Reverchon Park and William B. Dean Park, upon which the Dallas Theater Center's Kalita Humphreys Theater sits -- into "a framework to interlock the many plans into a holistic system of 'whole.'" The TCA spells out the master plan's five key categories:

1. Waterway and floodplain improvements to restore the ecological balance.
2. Urban design improvements to roadways; pathways; bridges; nodes and special places; urban furniture; and lighting.
3. Landscape and vegetation improvements to reverse decay and establish biodiversity within the Turtle Creek Corridor through a variety of measures such as a reforestation and tree maintenance plan.
4. Maintain and upgrade multi-functional open green spaces with the parks.
5. Connecting transit options such as the trolley system to the Turtle Creek Corridor.
...

[tamtagon]

It's about time this plan got same attention again. Oak Lawn/Uptown population density has been increasing for quite a while, but the Turtle Creek 'string of pearls' hasn't been improved much at all.

...threads merged

[tamtagon]

04-05-2006 The cost for the Turtle Creek Plan is somewhere in the neighborhood of $60M. I've met with Turtle Creek Association and Lee Park Conservancy reps to discuss, and my Park Board rep is working on this as well. I've ask the community leaders to help me prioritize projects so that we can tackle part of the total Plan (we won't have the funds to do all).

As for the rest of the Council's take on the Plan and support for funding, I don't know yet. Since we haven't finalized the proposal for the bond, I'm not in a position yet to gauge support from my colleages (I don't have any hard numbers to show them yet). We will know more in the coming months as staff finalizes their proposal and we get community input.

Since the Trinity River Park & Highway Project continues to flounder, I wonder if that's part of the reason the expensive Turtle Creek Plan has resurfaced during a time when the city out of money.