DTD | Spire: Mixed-use Development (2400 San Jacinto & 2500 Ross Ave)

[NThomas]

I found this mixed use development next to the Arts District on WDG Dallas Architecture PLLC's website www.wdgdallas.com (http://www.wdgdallas.com/) (they're the firm that designed Victory Park's The Vista and The Terrace, The Shelby by Mockingbird Station/SMU). On the website, look under "Master Plan" --> "Spire Master Plan." Also, the other two are under: "Mixed Use" --> "2400 San Jacinto", "Commercial" --> "2500 Ross Ave | Spire Master Plan" & "Commercial" --> "2400 San Jacinto | Spire Master Plan"

Spire
A 11.3 acre master plan development with 128,000 SF of retail, 1,664,700 SF of office and 337 residential units

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2448/arielrendering.png

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/306/siteplan.png


2400 San Jacinto
21 story building with two levels of below grade parking and seven levels of above grade parking. 360,570 square feet of office space, 21,320 square feet of retail space at street level. 36 residential flats and two story loft units at 1,300 square feet each.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5615/rendering.png

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/828/lobbyn.png

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5666/streetlevelrendering.png

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7121/streetlevelrendering2.png

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9342/streetlevelrendering3.png


2500 Ross Ave
19 levels, two below grade parking, six above grade parking. 590,000 square feet of office space, 18,000 square feet of retail space at street level. 6 story atrium connects all levels of parking with the buildings main elevators.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5615/rendering.png http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4740/lobbyt.png

Anybody know if these are in the planning stages and just still just sitting on the shelf waiting for funding or scrapped with the others this development cycle?

[cowboyeagle05]

These were on display in the Art District viewing center in Trammel Crow Tower. I posted a video on this forum showing them during the Arts District tour assembled by Preservation Dallas I believe. My best guess is they are waiting for funding to show up in a more public offering. Sitting there waiting for interested people to sign the checks to turn the dirt most likely after the AT&T PAC opened they become even more probable to actually being initiated.

[msutton]

Wow. Those would be incredible... I still think I'd prefer 4-8 stories consistently over the majority of those parking lots, perhaps fitting a similar square footage to this entire development but across the whole area -- but if this can get the funding, it would do wonders for not only the Arts District but downtown as a whole.

[chiboi]

I'm breathless - this would be absolutely stunning.

[quietthings]

:drool:

I don't know what else to say.

[eburress]

Wow - what a great development this could be. It's too bad building "D" isn't taller though...it would make for a nice effect if the building heights stepped up towards the taller, existing downtown towers nearby. Still, it's pretty spiff. :)

[AeroD]

Ah, development porn.

:drool:

[hamiltonpl]

What a sharp looking development. Any idea who is planning on developing this?

[xen0blue]

It'd be awesome if it came into fruition, but this seems simply to good to be true- a 'pie in the sky' :(


....Of course, i'd LOVE to be proven wrong if anyone else knows differently

[Double Wide]

Wow. Those would be incredible... I still think I'd prefer 4-8 stories consistently over the majority of those parking lots, perhaps fitting a similar square footage to this entire development but across the whole area -- but if this can get the funding, it would do wonders for not only the Arts District but downtown as a whole.


I agree with you on all your points. I would love to see this but 4 to 5 story apartments like what is being built in the Arts District would be just as nice.

[eburress]

Part of what I like about this project is how from certain perspectives, it will hide some of downtown's older towers. Bye bye Plaza of the America's. Bye bye Southland (or whatever it's being called these days). :)

[mannypr]

Love it. It actually looks "doable", unlike that hall tower you brought up on the other thread.

[NThomas]

Love it. It actually looks "doable", unlike that hall tower you brought up on the other thread.
Defiantly, this project would really complement the Arts District if the money is there.

[jovangonzales]

I do think it should have a taller building, but since the one is all curvy and gorgeous, I think it'll just fine, especially in person. Then maybe someone can come along and build 1900 pacific as the area's landmark new tower. What lovely ideas these developers come up with these days!

[clipper]

To even say this is wishful thinking would be a stretch. These are the same people who let the Mercantile sit there for years and finally the city had to go and find another developer - Forest City.

[MarkL2023]

n/a

[lakewoodhobo]

and hasn't the Merc been sitting relatively empty because Forest isn't getting the rents? It may not be fair to judge a company's past and future based on one unique property during a unique market.

I thought the Merc was 80% leased, with more to come now that the park is done.

[MarkL2023]

I thought the Merc was 80% leased, with more to come now that the park is done.

Really? I hope that is true. I just remember when it was sitting there relatively empty with everyone complaining about the price point.

[dfwcre8tive]

I thought the Merc was 80% leased, with more to come now that the park is done.

I've heard this as well, and they have lowered their prices considerably to attract renters.

[Kelley USA]

So if I’m reading it correctly- we’re looking at about 40,000 sq. ft of retail? Impressive development!!!

[TheMapman]

Pretty pictures....Victory Park 2.0? They would need to tread carefully.

[jovangonzales]

Pretty pictures....Victory Park 2.0? They would need to tread carefully.

I don't even think it's been long enough to say Victory is a failure! :P I think it just came at the wrong time, but this one won't since it won't even be real until the economy allows for such a large expensive development. I love this idea, and it will do wonders for that side of DT.

Any thoughts on what kind of retail and such should go there? I'm thinking smaller, boutique style stores that will make shopping there unique.

[palchik]

Any thoughts on what kind of retail and such should go there? I'm thinking smaller, boutique style stores that will make shopping there unique.

If that happens, then its Victory 2.0 for sure.

[MarkL2023]

I don't even think it's been long enough to say Victory is a failure!

To the citizens of Dallas, nothing is a failure because it will continue to grow and merge with the rest of the city. The former owners of Victory would probably classify it as a failure, though.

[jovangonzales]

To the citizens of Dallas, nothing is a failure because it will continue to grow and merge with the rest of the city. The former owners of Victory would probably classify it as a failure, though.

Yeah, I agree with you on that. I guess it just wasn't what it was supposed to be.

Victory has boutique shops? Well. Then I'll be having to make a trip there, haha.

Moral of the story: take what we learned from Victory and make it work for Dallas since Dallas will never be the dense Manhattan that so many people want. We have the luxury/disgrace of having no natural barriers ... or a port ... or a capital ... or a giant university. I'd say Dallas has done well so far and a development like this would only make it better!!!

[vman]

To the citizens of Dallas, nothing is a failure because it will continue to grow and merge with the rest of the city. The former owners of Victory would probably classify it as a failure, though.
I mentioned a while back on the Victory thread that a friend of mine from Chicago assesed a huge part of Victory's failure was due to its location, totally cut off from DTD and Uptown. She said putting sizeable retail there was a huge mistake (she works for a company that manages shopping centers). I think this project would have a better chance of success just because of its location alone. It's downtown, near the Arts District, as well as rail and trolley lines. I was in Houston over the holiday and was very impressed with how the Pavillion project downtown has turned out. There was a thread on the Houston site comparing the future success of Victory to the Houston Pavillions. Well it seemed like the Pavillion won out. It was very active on a lovely Saturday afternoon. But HP is located in the heart of downtown Houston, across from a very affordable Marriot hotel and near light rail. This project, if it happens, could be very similar.

Off subject: I also visited Discovery Green in downtown Houston as well. I can't help but believe as my Chicago friend suggested: This is more what Victory should have been. A huge park, a couple of restuarants, one condo tower across the the street. There was a ice skating rink set up and people were everywhere. Kids playing football on the lawns, people throwing frisbees, playing with dogs, having picnics, etc. I would much rather have that then what Victory currently is.

[jovangonzales]

I don't think Victory is cut off at all. It's very well connected to DT (Lamar, Houston, and to some extent Field). Continental and Hi Line provide access from I-35, while Lamar gives access from Woodall Rodgers. It's also got light rail in the form of both the TRE and DART both of which are far more developed than the Metro. I guess freeways pose more of a barrier than I once thought? The kicker is that it has a major sports venue which generates tons of foot traffic. To me, Victory SHOULD have been a HUGE success. Maybe that dense type of urban living on that scale just isn't Dallas friendly, yet. I think in time, that Victory will be a big deal as the economy ripens up and more retail and people move in.

[dmorg12345]

It is terribly cutoff from Uptown. The sidewalks and crosswalks are a total mess and the traffic on Harry Hines and McKinnon moves way above the posted speed limit, making it scary to cross.

This is further evidenced by having absolutely no residential development between McKinnon and Harry Hines or any retail lining those streets. Simply put, people don't walk down those streets. If they made those streets two way, It would totally change the area. I have never seen traffic bad enough on those streets to warrant them being one way either.

[palchik]

Victory had nothing but boutique shops...of course they've all gone out of business...you must be new to town.

[gshelton91]

Well i think this development would have a lot bigger chance of success then Victory just due to it being close to the AT&T Performing Arts Center.

[jovangonzales]

I'm not new to town, I can't say that I've ever just really explored Victory in anything other than a car. I also have only come in from Katy Trail (which is a very lovely trail with some pretty neat views) when on foot.

So do you guys think making pedestrian access to Victory would make it be the "world-class" development it's supposed to be? Some skywalks maybe?

It would seem then, that this would have none of the drawbacks of Victory that have been pointed out since it's well connected by sidewalks and has access by car and train, eh?

[vman]

I'm not new to town, I can't say that I've ever just really explored Victory in anything other than a car. I also have only come in from Katy Trail (which is a very lovely trail with some pretty neat views) when on foot.

So do you guys think making pedestrian access to Victory would make it be the "world-class" development it's supposed to be? Some skywalks maybe?

It would seem then, that this would have none of the drawbacks of Victory that have been pointed out since it's well connected by sidewalks and has access by car and train, eh?
I really think Victory would have been a success had it been downtown. The development is located across Woodall Rogers and historically, freeways often create a physical and strangely psychological barrier between two points. Then add the fact that the surrounding street configuration is horrible. Field, Houston, Olive, etc all serve one purpose, to get people in and out of DTD asap. I've always thought that the AAC and Victory were/are practically an island to itself. Unless, there is massive, and I mean really massive residential development in that area, and the streets are reconfigured, I don't believe Victory will ever live up to its previous hype and will be a gathering place for special events only. Retail will simply struggle there for a long time. It's a shame Victory can' be picked up and put where Reunion was.

[cmacemm]

Could small, one story buildings be built under Woodall Rogers? It seems like putting some life other than bums under there could help bring people in from West End. It's creepy as hell walking through that West End Entrance way once it get's dark and it seems like buildings that would be small enough to fit under there would be some what cheap.

[mannypr]

I think that more people will eventually go to Victory as Harwood gets developed. I'm not saying it's dependent on Harwood but at least it will have on one side a neigborhood were people actually live (not many people live on the other two sides). If Harwood creates more residential or mixed-use buildings that are pedestrian friendly, the north side of Woodall will eventually be one huge developed area that's not seperated by undeveloped land. At the pace that Harwood builds however it would take a while.

As far as this project goes I think it will really work out. You have the CBD with more people each day on one side, the emerging Arts District right next to it, and many people that live east of 75.

[NThomas]

Could small, one story buildings be built under Woodall Rogers? It seems like putting some life other than bums under there could help bring people in from West End. It's creepy as hell walking through that West End Entrance way once it get's dark and it seems like buildings that would be small enough to fit under there would be some what cheap.
I'm pretty sure I brought up this idea too in one of the archived Victory Park threads. There were like 10 people who jumped on me and they all said the same thing: fill the existing retail.

I still think it would be a great idea to "fill" in Dallas Alley across from McKinney St towards the Woodall Rodgers Plaza (SEC of Continental & Houston). It would be a great connection from the West End to VP but then you walk out to one of most pedestrian unfriendly intersections in Dallas.

[DallasMan]

Victory = connected to Downtown via West End.

Victory = NOT connected to Uptown. That stretch of walk from Pearl/Cedar Springs. to Victory across Harry Hines is rough - dodging cars and all. Splat.

[vman]

Victory = connected to Downtown via West End.


Right, I can tell that by the tons of people I see walking over. :)

[kenc]

Could small, one story buildings be built under Woodall Rogers? It seems like putting some life other than bums under there could help bring people in from West End. It's creepy as hell walking through that West End Entrance way once it get's dark and it seems like buildings that would be small enough to fit under there would be some what cheap.

I used to live in SoCal where land is very expensive. They frequently built self storage units under the freeways there. I remember several in and around downtown San Diego.

[eburress]

I used to live in SoCal where land is very expensive. They frequently built self storage units under the freeways there. I remember several in and around downtown San Diego.

Yeah, there are some under I-8 near Sea World and Old Town. It's super classy. ;)

[jonathaninATX]

Looks nice.

[GennadyB]

I would be very surprised if TXDOT would let anybody build anything within their ROW other than utilities.

[jovangonzales]

I would be very surprised if TXDOT would let anybody build anything within their ROW other than utilities.

That's true. They're PITAs about that. Just getting to a sewer line on TxDOT ROW requires a frikin act of congress. (We have land adjacent to a state highway.)

Spire needs to be built right MEOW. As for Victory, I suppose it'll be an island until Dallas develops enough to engulf and incorporate it. Shouldn't be too much longer at the rate Uptown is going, eh?

[lakewoodhobo]

Shouldn't be too much longer at the rate Uptown is going, eh?

Seems like it'll be the Design District that saves Victory Park, but that's for another thread.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/121109dnbusdistrictapts.ad2516.html

[vman]

Something soon??

Spire Realty adds to its land holdings near the Arts District

01:53 PM CST on Monday, January 4, 2010
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
stevebrown@dallasnews.com

Investor Spire Realty Group has bought almost two acres of land in downtown Dallas near the Arts District.

The property on Ross Avenue near Routh Street was acquired from lender Compass Bank. Terms of the sale were not disclosed.

The vacant tract, which also fronts San Jacinto Street, was previously owned by apartment developer JPI. JPI turned over the land to its lender, Compass Bank, when plans for an apartment complex on the property were canceled, real estate broker Lindsay Allen of Apartment Realty Advisors said Monday.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/010510dnbusSpire.4636c28d.html

[lakewoodhobo]

^Who knew! This is awesome. Too bad there won't be a Phase II of "The Arts" like this land was probably set aside for, but at least it's in the hands of someone with a plan, and not some Chinese investors.

[dallasbrit]

It would be cool if something got moving here. Those apartments across the street are moving awfully slow, and from what I see, I'm a little disappointed. There are new ones in the Design District that look better. Residences in this area should "pop". I'll withhold final judgment till they're done.

[clipper]

The fact that these people have blocked up that area means that nothing will happen there until all the other available sites are built out. They are speculators. They owned the Mercantile block for more than five years and did nothing with it but mark up the asking price every year which made it impossible to redo until the City of Dallas stepped in with millions in incentives.
That will be the play here, too. Sit on this land until nothing in the area is left to build on and then sell it to other developers or the city for a huge profit.
They are not builders. They are investors.

[xen0blue]

the more I look at these the more uptownish this development seems to be with its shorter towers and long green setbacks with big yards and parking lots

[tamtagon]

They are not builders. They are investors.

They're playing middle man with some really good property, too.

[NThomas]

It would be cool if something got moving here. Those apartments across the street are moving awfully slow, and from what I see, I'm a little disappointed. There are new ones in the Design District that look better. Residences in this area should "pop". I'll withhold final judgment till they're done.
A couple days ago, I was right there with you. The building is really starting to take shape now and IMO, because of it's exterior, The Arts will be identifiable as a building in the Arts District and look like it belongs on Quorum or Legacy Dr.