Dallas: 2nd Avenue/Fair Park entertainment district

[CTroyMathis]

First-class future for Second Avenue
'It's very much a reality for me. ... I can almost taste it'
01:06 PM CST on Saturday, January 3, 2004
By TOYA LYNN STEWART / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/localnews/stories/010404dnmetsecondave.1d2bc.html

Edward "Tex" Harris has a name for his yet-to-be-built supper club on Second Avenue near Fair Park.

"I'd call it the New Rose Room," Mr. Harris said, explaining that it would be in tribute to a 1940s blues club called the Rose Room that catered to black patrons in Dallas.

"The Rose Room was their tux-and-tails outlet," he said. "They had everything there – New Year's Eve parties, graduations, debutante balls.

"At the New Rose Room, all of my help would be dressed to the bone."

To make his dream come true, Mr. Harris and other Fair Park area supporters are pursuing an ambitious $75 million revitalization plan for the economically depressed neighborhood in the shadow of Fair Park.

Along Second Avenue, they envision a bustling entertainment district, filled with restaurants, jazz clubs and other venues that would pay homage to the Fair Park area's legacy as home of some of the country's great blues and jazz artists.

Fair Park, site of the State Fair, the Cotton Bowl and several museums, draws hundreds of thousands of visitors each year, but few stay for long, Mr. Harris said.

"People come to Fair Park and then they run like hell to get out," said Mr. Harris, who grew up in the area. "I want to change that."

He said he was inspired to launch his revitalization plan by a visit several years ago to bustling Beale Street in Memphis, Tenn. The redeveloped street – considered by some as the catalyst in the rebirth of downtown Memphis – was thriving.

Mr. Harris said a similar thing could happen along Second Avenue and the surrounding area.

"If we could take that synergy from Fair Park and put it right in the neighborhood, the area would be self-sufficient," he said.

Soon after his Memphis trip, Mr. Harris shared his inspiration with neighborhood residents, lenders, investors, politicians and city staff.

Assistance from UTA

He also sought assistance from his alma mater, the University of Texas at Arlington, where students and faculty in the School of Urban and Public Affairs designed a conceptual plan to help attract support for the revitalization proposal.
Graduate students in a projects class created a multiyear plan that could be developed in four phases, said Dr. Ard Anjomani, a UTA professor.

"We translated this community idea to a plan," he said. "If this development would materialize, it would provide jobs for residents and financial opportunities for local entrepreneurs to start small businesses in the area."

Dallas officials have long been interested in revitalizing the area, said Hammond Perot, assistant director for the city's economic development office.

"Fair Park is viewed as one of the city's major assets, as is South Dallas," Mr. Perot said. "I think it's potentially feasible, and I think there's a distinct opportunity there.

"It's an area with a lot of events, visitors and the existing population. It can be a vibrant area once again."

Dallas City Council member Leo Chaney Jr., whose district includes the Fair Park area, shares the vision for Second Avenue. Mr. Chaney, who is working with Mr. Harris, also has plans to revitalize other parts of the neighborhood, including Grand Avenue and Fourth Street.

Mr. Chaney said he is certain the entertainment district will come to fruition. The City Council recently approved its Fair Park Master Plan, which included the proposed entertainment district.

Soon, Mr. Chaney, Mr. Harris and others will visit Beale Street in Memphis to talk with developers and city officials.

Sure of success


"People seem to love the idea, and there's been great interest," Mr. Chaney said. "It is going to happen."
If successful, the proposal could revive the neighborhood that once was filled with businesses that served white residents of the neighborhood in the early 1900s, said Donald Payton, a former longtime employee of the Dallas Historical Society.

Later, after black people had moved to the area to work in the cotton mills, businesses such as nightclubs and bars opened, providing venues for the jazz and blues artists who later lived or performed in the area.

"At that time, Second Avenue was a border street, an invisible border between the white and black communities," Mr. Payton said.

Its prestige grew during the 1936 Texas Centennial Exposition, when art deco structures such as the Cotton Bowl, the Hall of State and the Museum of Natural History were built in Fair Park, Mr. Payton said.

"Hundreds of thousands of people from all over the world came to South Dallas, and the main road into the neighborhood was Second Avenue," he said.

Black teachers, doctors and lawyers lived there. So did many well-known jazz and blues artists: Ray Charles, David "Fathead" Newman, Buster Smith, Alfred "TNT" Braggs, Z.Z. Hill, Little Joe Blue, Lucky Peterson and R.L. Griffin, to name a few.

But as more black families moved to the area in the 1940s, white residents began to leave. Businesses and grocery stores eventually followed.

By the 1970s, there were fewer homeowners, more renters and lots of empty properties, Mr. Payton said.

Decades of urban decay and years of neglect have taken their toll on the neighborhood, said Bhavin Parekh, a UTA student who helped develop the plan.

"We took a tour of the neighborhood, and it was quite visible that something needed to be done," Mr. Parekh said. "The houses were growing old, but not enough care was given to them.

"You could see the money had moved out and that there wasn't a lot of commercial businesses there," he said. "I don't think enough attention has been given to the redevelopment of the neighborhood."

The revitalization plan could change that, Mr. Payton said.

"Ed's plan would reflect the life coming back to the city," he said. "In a true redevelopment effort, everyone profits.

"It's not going to be a black thing or a white thing, but a Dallas thing."

Even though it could take years to secure funding, change zoning and gather support needed to make it happen, Mr. Harris is optimistic.

The estimated $75 million price tag for the entertainment district could be secured through private funding and federal dollars, said Mr. Harris, who has his own consulting company that focuses on economic development and community development housing.

Plans call for the entertainment district to be along seven blocks of Second Avenue between Fitzhugh Avenue and Scyene Road. Mr. Harris said work could begin by 2007 or earlier.

"The entertainment district isn't designed for this neighborhood, but for park patrons," he said. "It's a conduit to attract visitors to the area around the park and provide jobs for residents.

"It's very much a reality for me. ... I can almost taste it."

[bloodandpopcorn]

That's great news. As soon as I figure out where to send some money, I'll contribute a couple hundred of Dollars. I can't do much more than that financially, but I'd love to do something to help this come to fruition!

[ibryant]

It's really great to see this project get some backing and some press. The UTA class that the article refers to was actually my project planning class from this past spring. We worked with Ed Harris on developing the master plan for his development. He's really putting a lot of time and energy into it, so I hope they can get the money together to get it built. That area is going to require a lot of cleaning up though...and very few of the existing buildings can be redeveloped...hence the $75 million price tag.

[TexasStar]

Something like this can go a long way toward improving our attractiveness as a convention/tourist destination. We have to compete better with the likes of Las Vegas and New Orleans.

[tamtagon]

The Dallas Police Dept. better get ready. All this development will require more police officers. Of course, maybe the city council will determine that businesses in this part of town cannot remain open past dusk because the city does not have the manpower to keep the area safe once the "scary" people rise with the setting of the sun.

[bloodandpopcorn]

hahaha!!

I do agree, though, that an enlarged police force is going to be necessary in coming years... Very few of the Dallas "elite" will ever feel comfortable south of Woodall Rodgers without a visible police presence.

[BIMS 01]

I'd guess alot has to do with where the people paying the salaries of the police live is where the police patrol the most. I know buisnesses pay taxes as well, but in the evening there are huge locks with alarms and not many people downtown. As that changes, hopefully the DPD will adapt and put more officers down there.

[texcolo]

Hopefully this will spill over into a revitalization of Fair Park.

I love that place... too bad they can't follow through with any of the plans that have offered in the past couple of years.

IE: The Domed Cotton Bowl

or the Vaulted Esplenade

:(

[trolleygirl]

How many of you (other than Dr. Anjimoni's former student) have ever been to Second Ave? How many are generalizing? It's "scary" all day, not just after dark. I went to my City Council Representative's victory party on Second Ave earlier this year and I got yelled at by some crack ho's (had to walk *yikes* two blocks.) I live in South Dallas and have spent the last two years scratching for $$- and finally got it for a project known a Groundwork USA. We are trying to clean up the "gateway" communities of South Dallas following lower White Rock Creek down to its confluence with the Trinity River in order to attract more positive urban rehabilitation of those areas. I think what Tex is doing on Second is fantastic, but the whole area- including the area I just mentioned- needs to provide a stable backbone if we want to talk seriously about revitalizing the "southern sector". And I'll tell you something else, the cops are out in force in Fair Park and some of those areas happen to have the lowest 10% crime rate in Dallas- my neighborhood has the lowest.

[dallastophoenix]

it's my turn,

welcome to the forum, trolleygirl...

i'm enjoying your posts!

[rantanamo]

I used to go through that area everyday. They have the best priced Church's Chicken right around there on Scyene. Been yelled at, solicited, even threatened after a guy hit my truck. Told him I'd kick his butt halfway to Garland, lol, and he got out of there. Scary, but not as scary as some parts north and west of MLK. Some of the small apt complexes and motels are downright scary. Drug dealers out in the open with guns, prostitutes everywhere.

[bloodandpopcorn]

Are the cops too afraid to go and arrest them?

[tamtagon]

It's just a different culture.

[rantanamo]

I have never seen a cop from Central Expressway(the road, not the freeway) to Malcolm X, which is the area I'm talking about. When I walked through Oak Cliff, the only cops I saw were at Methodist and Lake Cliff Park. Everywhere in North Dallas I walked, I was hassled to no end, constantly identifying myself. Especially the infamous District 13 with all the old people.

[gc]

Everywhere in North Dallas I walked, I was hassled to no end, constantly identifying myself. Especially the infamous District 13 with all the old people.

What? Are you serious?

[trolleygirl]

rantanamo-
I go home a lot during the day because I'm usuallu out doing errands and becuase I have a couple of senior citizens that I check on. I know all the cops in 20's and 50's. I've taken ride throughs with them. They know who all the drug dealers arem like the guy in Frazier Court who looks like he could be your kindly granfather- he sells needles. Then the guy over on Metropalitain where they have an open crack house- with a sign in the window- and yes, it's a different culture. But I would notwalk around there at night, I would not walk around there during the day. I am comfortable at the McDonald's and the Chevron- where a pipe-head pumped my gas for spare change last week- at the Two Podners at the Walgreen's- although a frined of mine got jumped one day for his prescription pain killers, and at the Minyards. Even though they don't have my kind of cofee, you can still grab some eggs and bread in a hurry over there, and they carry Silk!!! Anywhere on MLK I feel comfortable- the South Fair CDC is there, the Dallas Black Chamber is there, the MLK Center is there, etc. But Second Ave. is a dump and it's every bit "the hood". It needs some help, primarily with getting those crappy liquor stores out of there- those owners are so slimy- so that legitimate businesses- like the auto repair place- can thrive.

PS- That Church's made me sick......go to the Williams up on Hatcher- much better chicken.

I stand corrected- the Church's is on Hatcher, the Williams is on Second Ave.

[bloodandpopcorn]

If the cops know who all the drug dealers are, then why the hell don't they do their job and throw them in jail?

[mikedsjr]

TG,

I think that many of the suburbanites feel safer because they don't live within 3-5 miles from "the hood". And they fear subjecting their children or themselves to what inncoent people who don't have a choice living there already have to live with.

For a long time, I have felt that the only way to clean up these areas is to go in with military force and clean out the problem people. I believe that you make the lower class areas better areas by ridding them of the victimizers. We work so hard to spend trillions of dollars on wars overseas, yet that money could go to ridding our innercity neighboorhoods of the American Terrorists called gangs.

[trolleygirl]

I don't think I like the idea of "military force". I think that's what they have in China.

[trolleygirl]

If the cops know who all the drug dealers are, then why the hell don't they do their job and throw them in jail?

A lot of these guys are small time and they're likely addicts themselves. The have been in and out of "the system" ther entire lives. There is often little to zero chances of finding work and, often, work can be too far away or not near enough to public transportation. These people are hard cases, they are not going to just give up smoking- and selling- a little rock. The police use them as information sources- just like on "Law and Order"- so they can get to bigger fish. As for that crack house, I know that there's sort of an unwritten and unofficial agreement between some of these cops that the place is at least a safe house for people, and if they're high there, then they're not high and out on the streets getting themselves and others hurt or into trouble- somewhat of a little liberal-leftist-socialist idea from a bunch of cops if you ask me....................

[tamtagon]

A lot of these guys are small time and they're likely addicts themselves. The have been in and out of "the system" ther entire lives. There is often little to zero chances of finding work and, often, work can be too far away or not near enough to public transportation. These people are hard cases, they are not going to just give up smoking- and selling- a little rock. The police use them as information sources- just like on "Law and Order"- so they can get to bigger fish. As for that crack house, I know that there's sort of an unwritten and unofficial agreement between some of these cops that the place is at least a safe house for people, and if they're high there, then they're not high and out on the streets getting themselves and others hurt or into trouble- somewhat of a little liberal-leftist-socialist idea from a bunch of cops if you ask me....................

It's like, the cops are saying it's okay.

[I45Tex]

:(
It's just a different culture.


Also, but seriously... do property taxes and so forth get collected in these types of places?

[rantanamo]

rantanamo-
I go home a lot during the day because I'm usuallu out doing errands and becuase I have a couple of senior citizens that I check on. I know all the cops in 20's and 50's. I've taken ride throughs with them. They know who all the drug dealers arem like the guy in Frazier Court who looks like he could be your kindly granfather- he sells needles. Then the guy over on Metropalitain where they have an open crack house- with a sign in the window- and yes, it's a different culture. But I would notwalk around there at night, I would not walk around there during the day. I am comfortable at the McDonald's and the Chevron- where a pipe-head pumped my gas for spare change last week- at the Two Podners at the Walgreen's- although a frined of mine got jumped one day for his prescription pain killers, and at the Minyards. Even though they don't have my kind of cofee, you can still grab some eggs and bread in a hurry over there, and they carry Silk!!! Anywhere on MLK I feel comfortable- the South Fair CDC is there, the Dallas Black Chamber is there, the MLK Center is there, etc. But Second Ave. is a dump and it's every bit "the hood". It needs some help, primarily with getting those crappy liquor stores out of there- those owners are so slimy- so that legitimate businesses- like the auto repair place- can thrive.

PS- That Church's made me sick......go to the Williams up on Hatcher- much better chicken.

I stand corrected- the Church's is on Hatcher, the Williams is on Second Ave.

Yes, Church's is on Hatcher and that area is very much "the hood". I'm plenty comfortable at Two Podnas and McDonald's. Shop at that Minyards all the time. It's the Second Ave, and ,What's the next major street north of MLK called? Scary stuff on that street west of of Malcom X. Scariest place I've seen in all of Dallas.

[bloodandpopcorn]

Small time my ass. If there's no chance for rehibilating them, all the more reason to keep them in prison. "Big fish" or "little fish," if you break a law, you should be held accountable. If they f**king ticket me for not wearing a seatbelt, but have "agreements" with these assholes to keep on their destructive, dangerous ways of life that ruin areas of the city for the poor, who can't really choose to live in other places, then the cops themselves deserve prison terms.

[tamtagon]

The main sticking point for me with the decriminalization of many recreational drugs is that the small percentage of the black market profits currently earned by individual 'business men' would be transfered to equally (and legally) corrupt corporations. Through the legitimization of recreational drug use, drug abuse would be more easily and readily approached, managed and remedied by the whole medical industry.

[bloodandpopcorn]

And they wouldn't be walking around with guns out in the open! That's what gets to me! Quiet drug trafficing that doesn't harm anyone but the person doing the drug is fine, but people strutting around with guns out in the open... That really sets me off. (This is kind of to clarify my earlier post, it's the fact that rantanmo saw them out with guns in the open that gest to me).

[rantanamo]

Grand Ave was the street. A small complex of some sort. Don't know if it was a seedy motel or apt building, but It was clear what was going on out there.

[tamtagon]

Too bad you didnt have your camera.

[rantanamo]

I probably had it with me

[barrycb]

I probably had it with me

Smart man.

[barrycb]

A lot of these guys are small time and they're likely addicts themselves. The have been in and out of "the system" ther entire lives. There is often little to zero chances of finding work and, often, work can be too far away or not near enough to public transportation. These people are hard cases, they are not going to just give up smoking- and selling- a little rock. The police use them as information sources- just like on "Law and Order"- so they can get to bigger fish. As for that crack house, I know that there's sort of an unwritten and unofficial agreement between some of these cops that the place is at least a safe house for people, and if they're high there, then they're not high and out on the streets getting themselves and others hurt or into trouble- somewhat of a little liberal-leftist-socialist idea from a bunch of cops if you ask me....................

That's crazy. The police won't allow me to not wear my seatbelt because I tell them where people are speeding...same rationale.

[rantanamo]

I hate the whole informants/deal making system of the law, because its obvious the bigger fish aren't being caught. I still think there is not nearly enough action at the point of attack. What is the US doing, playing the old flex defense from the Cowboys? There should be far more forward action. Here's my question, who creates more imminent danger to the lives of those living in the United States, narcotic producing nations or Iraq? I'm not talking the issue of whether they should be illegal or not. I'm saying, if you are going make something illegal, then why not stop it at the point of conception? Don't get me wrong though, I still believe that we could solve a lot by eliminating the black market, which is where a lot of the crime in the US comes from. Drugs make places like 2nd Ave the 'hood' that they are. Ooh controversial statements from me. I don't care who disagrees with me on that or not, but what we are doing now from the enforcement end is obviously not working.

[trolleygirl]

Well, there's also a whole other police culture too. Fighting crime, catching bad guys, protecting citizens, it' not always as simple as you'd think. And sometimes, well, it's ther little fish that brings in the big fish, and ya gotta do what it takes to catch them.
I agree with rantanamo, I think drugs should be legalized and regulated.

[mikedsjr]

I can't believe you really believe legalizing drugs is going to stop the gangs. If it is not drugs they hold over people, it will be something else, and probably much worse.

Then we will realize that military force will be the "ya gotta do what it takes to catch them".

[tamtagon]

I can't believe you really believe legalizing drugs is going to stop the gangs. If it is not drugs they hold over people, it will be something else, and probably much worse.

Then we will realize that military force will be the "ya gotta do what it takes to catch them".

I think gang behavior is part of human nature, and decriminalization of recreational drugs would simply bring us a taxable industry of corporate gangs - but at least the corporate version of drive-by shootings (currently legal in this country) will at least leave the victims alive. Which is worse?

The war on drugs is as winable as a war on primetime television. As long as the people want it, it will always exist - and recreational drug use been with us throughout history. The only justification of anti-recreational drug use is morally and/or religiously motivated. The financial value of an expanded legitimate recreational drug industry (beyond the current consumer product goods of alcohol, nicotine and behaviorial prescriptions) would return a thousand times or more the revenue spent to track, arrest and convict drug criminals. The societal benefits would be even greater.


Drugs make places like 2nd Ave the 'hood' that they are. - I kinda agree with you rantanamo, but more specifically, I believe the drug delivery method created by current policing tactics (municipal and black market) make places like 2nd ave the 'hood' that they are.

ANYWAY....


Along Second Avenue, they envision a bustling entertainment district, filled with restaurants, jazz clubs and other venues that would pay homage to the Fair Park area's legacy as home of some of the country's great blues and jazz artists.

Unless current Deep Ellum patrons suddenly swarm another part of town, Second Ave. is the perfect place in Dallas for a string of blues and jazz clubs. The dark perception of the neighborhood would enhance the whole experience while listening to a band there. I think the neighborhood supplies all the emotions needed for a great blues/jazz scene again. I'm overwhelmingly in favor of putting the soul back into Dallas.

[freewaytincan]

Unless current Deep Ellum patrons suddenly swarm another part of town, Second Ave. is the perfect place in Dallas for a string of blues and jazz clubs. The dark perception of the neighborhood would enhance the whole experience while listening to a band there. I think the neighborhood supplies all the emotions needed for a great blues/jazz scene again. I'm overwhelmingly in favor of putting the soul back into Dallas.

Careful; you're thinking about this too closely. Before you know it, you'll be using terms to describe this and other areas such as "outdoor living room" or "a great place to sit and have a cup of coffee".

[Foucault]

The only justification of anti-recreational drug use is morally and/or religiously motivated.
What's anti-recreational drug use?

[trolleygirl]

What's anti-recreational drug use?

My first reaction to that seemingly tounge-in-cheek comment is haha.....but I think he was defining the difference between mind altering drugs (recreational) and prescription drugs like pain killers and Wellbutrin, and even to legal drugs like nicotene and to a degree, possibly even steroids.

[bloodandpopcorn]

I agree that most illegal substances should be legalized. It won't make gangs and other crimes go away, but I do think it will significantly minimize their impact. Kind of like the repeal of prohibition.

[rantanamo]

Legalizing many illegal substances wouldn't make some things go away, but a lot of crime is drug related. Stealing/burglary/robbery to support habits or pay drug debts. Many habits started by the allure of doing something illegal(see smoking y drinking). The corner art of drug selling. Crack houses. Dealers prostituting women in exchange for drugs. Would also take away an important source of revenue for US gangs, as well as the drug smuggling cartels. I imagine some of them are the pockets of politicians to make sure such a thing never happens. Kind of like the oil companies :P

Sociologists have known this forever, but no one listens to sociologists because their arguments follow studied logic and common sense rather than morals, guts, and hearts. We need to listen to them sometimes. Afterall they study society.

Agreed Tamtagon. I think the seedy nature would be kind of an authentic feel to some blues clubs. Of course, making sure its safe for all that want to go there. It would be sort of anti-antiseptic West End. A place with a reputation where you really have to be 'down' to go to. There's a certain segment of the pop that loves that kind of thing. Look at some people's homes like American Beauty Mill or Hickory St Annex. Seedy part of town, but people are willing to pay pretty good prices to live there.

[tamtagon]

The only justification of anti-recreational drug use is morally and/or religiously motivated.

What's anti-recreational drug use?

haha, I really thought I was on a roll. ?anti-recreational drug use? huh?
What I meant: many laws prohibiting the use of recreational drugs have been prompted by moral and/or religious points of view that non-medical drug use is just wrong. On behalf of very organized pressure from Christian moralists, our country is fruitlessly spending billions of dollars to "win the war against drugs"; these groups have succeeded in a pervasive campaign of propoganda pointing judgemental fingers at behaviors they do not like.

Pressure from the moralists contributes strongly to much of the societal plight (aka 2nd Ave "hood") we have in this country. Bullying politicians to pass laws against human behavior does not eliminate the activities.

On a positive note, to corral all the degenerates into a sub-culture lined up for purgatory does result in protective scary neighborhoods allowing those citizens a little earthly relaxation from the wrath of power hungry moral policy pushers.

[warlock55]

What I meant: many laws prohibiting the use of recreational drugs have been prompted by moral and/or religious points of view that non-medical drug use is just wrong. On behalf of very organized pressure from Christian moralists, our country is fruitlessly spending billions of dollars to "win the war against drugs"; these groups have succeeded in a pervasive campaign of propoganda pointing judgemental fingers at behaviors they do not like.
Right on. People who see issues as black and white, good vs. evil, may make their own lives simpler by not having to think so much but it sure makes the existance of people whose lives are shades of grey much more complicated.

[mikedsjr]

:rolleyes:

[freewaytincan]

Right on. People who see issues as black and white, good vs. evil, may make their own lives simpler by not having to think so much but it sure makes the existance of people whose lives are shades of grey much more complicated.

People who see mostly in shades of grey confound me. It is or it isn't. It's right or wrong. It's good or bad. You don't say your food, for example, is exqusite and disgusting at the same time, do you?

[warlock55]

People who see mostly in shades of grey confound me. It is or it isn't. It's right or wrong. It's good or bad. You don't say your food, for example, is exqusite and disgusting at the same time, do you?
Sure you could. It could look fantastic, but still taste awful. And that's not even considering the tastes of other people whose opinion of the food is just as valid as mine.

Here's another example. Killing someone is evil, right? Well what if it's self-defense? Maybe that's not so wrong. But what if your attacker is coming after you because you killed his daughter? And what if you killed his daughter because she cheated your family out of its livleyhood? Now it gets complicated. Holistically, things aren't black and white because there's always more than one perspective.

Finally, what if all you're killing is a bug? Not as bad as killing a person, right? But once you have set a continuum on the value of life, tada, shades of grey.

[bloodandpopcorn]

Not to mention war. Or countless other possibilities. What about cannibalism? Sorry, Urban, if we're trapped alone somewhere with no food, I'm eating you before I starve to death. And it is would not be evil. The world is not pretty black and white choices. "Good" and "bad" are all relative, nature knows not these things. We invent these labels and then try to fit actions into them. From the greatest play in the English language: "For there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. " No action is simple enough to be put into "good" or "bad." I firmly believe that even the most dispicable mass-murder of young children could, from the right point of view, be rationalized. One's "values" (or, as it is too often in America, the rhetoric people are been fed) simplifies actions into these categories to which they were never meant to be confined.

But I'm way off topic. Sorry. If the stadium doesn't come, this development should still happen, yes? When will it begin?

[rantanamo]

and when would the Fair Park masterplan begin work, being as Second Ave runs right through Fair Park.

[freewaytincan]

Not to mention war. Or countless other possibilities. What about cannibalism? Sorry, Urban, if we're trapped alone somewhere with no food, I'm eating you before I starve to death. And it is would not be evil. The world is not pretty black and white choices. "Good" and "bad" are all relative, nature knows not these things. We invent these labels and then try to fit actions into them. From the greatest play in the English language: "For there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. " No action is simple enough to be put into "good" or "bad." I firmly believe that even the most dispicable mass-murder of young children could, from the right point of view, be rationalized. One's "values" (or, as it is too often in America, the rhetoric people are been fed) simplifies actions into these categories to which they were never meant to be confined.

But I'm way off topic. Sorry. If the stadium doesn't come, this development should still happen, yes? When will it begin?

As long as you don't start claiming that truth is relative...

Yes, so anyway, wait...it actually runs through Fair Park? I thought it was simply adjacent.

[tamtagon]

Its prestige grew during the 1936 Texas Centennial Exposition, when art deco structures such as the Cotton Bowl, the Hall of State and the Museum of Natural History were built in Fair Park, Mr. Payton said.

"Hundreds of thousands of people from all over the world came to South Dallas, and the main road into the neighborhood was Second Avenue," he said.
...
Even though it could take years to secure funding, change zoning and gather support needed to make it happen, Mr. Harris is optimistic.

I'm not as optomistic about this as Mr. Harris, but it seems like the opening of a DART train station would anchor the project time line.

[mikedsjr]

Before we completely take the whole train off the rail with the nonsense black/gray/white stupid argument (though i am on Urban side on this :D), I think an area that brings reflections of reality into the area with the ability to attract people to it is quite interesting.

People naturally want to see "train wrecks". And if they could make this area of town into a trendy "train wreck" with the blues clubs, it would be somewhat New Orleans-isk. And might develop later to be very popular. Or is my analogy way off?