Maxus Energy Tower is officially KPMG Centre

[CTroyMathis]

Just a note about the Maxus Energy Tower renaming. KPMG signed a long lease late last year and the building is titiled KPMG Centre...the name should be more apparent and up on the building sometime by August of this year.

[CTroyMathis]

Developer CarrAmerica Realty has landed its first downtown deal.

The real estate investment trust, based in Washington, D.C., has been a major player in Dallas' suburban office market, building corporate offices for businesses including Network Associates, Capital One and Nokia.

Now the builder and investor has been awarded the contract to oversee construction of accounting firm KPMG's new regional office in the former Maxus Energy Tower at 717 N. Harwood St.

The building is being renamed KPMG Centre for the major tenant, which is consolidating operations in the Uptown area and in the Stemmons Freeway corridor. Occupancy in the downtown building is scheduled for March 2003.

[DFW]

Please help me out on this one. I have a bet with my friend and his boss, that KPMG Centre is taller then Harwood Center. All references such as Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat and others list Harwood Center taller at 483-ft over KPMG Centre 481-ft. I have always believed this to be wrong. Both towers are adjacent to each other. The crown top of KPMG Centre is equal to three stories thus making it look like a 37-story tower and from seeing photos in the past it clearly shows it to appear higher then Harwood Center. Evidently they may have the listed height reversed for the towers or KPMG is at around 487-ft. Please, if anyone out there is with me on this issue, post any pics or video as evidence so that maybe we can also make the corrections for future references as well.

[Alex Rodriguez]

According to skyscaperpage.com, Harwood is taller. Not sure where else to look.

http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?cityID=92

[Alex Rodriguez]

Although I think you are right that KPMG is taller. Here is photographic evidence.

[DFW]

Although I think you are right that KPMG is taller. Here is photographic evidence.

Thank you, this angle is not bad, but if anyone out there has anymore even better I would appreciated very much.

[Marshall Mather]

Hello there,

:2hmm: Thanks for the update. I got few more news and want to add here.

Currently, KPMG is operating in two buildings in Dallas: the Crescent in Uptown and Brookriver Center near Love Field. When the KPMG $25 million renovation and relocation is complete, the firm will occupy approximately 200,000 square feet of space on seven floors in the new building.

Thanks and regards,
- Marshall Mather

[electricron]

I believe the published heights at skyscraper.com stating Harwood Center is taller than KPMG.
The photo presented earlier in the thread has a parallax error effect. The KPMG building is clearly closer to the camera than Harwood Center.

Here's four photos showing the same effect between two ships that aren't close to being the same size.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FEBcQEXi6lo/TLDsvAu2ohI/AAAAAAAAIR0/cihE9jNqy0A/s400/DSCF1339.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FEBcQEXi6lo/TLDsuxvog_I/AAAAAAAAIRs/H9Rd2ZZgCgU/s400/DSCF1363.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FEBcQEXi6lo/TLDsugpi7KI/AAAAAAAAIRk/qgvGb4CkfCU/s400/DSCF1364.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FEBcQEXi6lo/TLDsufqoopI/AAAAAAAAIRc/XfwkNXgxS9w/s400/DSCF1374.JPG
Photos credit: Barry Watson

Yes, the difference in distance between the ships is much more than the buildings in the earlier photo, but the difference in size of the ships is more too. The difference in distances between two very similar size buildings doesn't need to be as large to have the same effect.

[DFW]

I believe the published heights at skyscraper.com stating Harwood Center is taller than KPMG.
The photo presented earlier in the thread has a parallax error effect. The KPMG building is clearly closer to the camera than Harwood Center.

Here's four photos showing the same effect between two ships that aren't close to being the same size.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FEBcQEXi6lo/TLDsvAu2ohI/AAAAAAAAIR0/cihE9jNqy0A/s400/DSCF1339.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FEBcQEXi6lo/TLDsuxvog_I/AAAAAAAAIRs/H9Rd2ZZgCgU/s400/DSCF1363.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FEBcQEXi6lo/TLDsugpi7KI/AAAAAAAAIRk/qgvGb4CkfCU/s400/DSCF1364.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FEBcQEXi6lo/TLDsufqoopI/AAAAAAAAIRc/XfwkNXgxS9w/s400/DSCF1374.JPG
Photos credit: Barry Watson

Yes, the difference in distance between the ships is much more than the buildings in the earlier photo, but the difference in size of the ships is more too. The difference in distances between two very similar size buildings doesn't need to be as large to have the same effect.

This is irrelevant, that is why I asked for a better angle, maybe a direct angle from one of the towers downtown. I wonder if the 40th floor at the Sky Lobby of Chase Tower could have a good view.

[Alex Rodriguez]

Electron, the problem with your theory is that the buildings are right next to each other, there is no hidden space in between them. They are maybe 70 feet apart. There is not hundreds of "hidden" yards optical illusion like in the photos you are posting. I will try to get a better angle..

[Alex Rodriguez]

So this shot is directly across from KMPG in Lincoln Plaza. I don't think there is any doubt. Not a great picture and this website only allows file sizes up to 110K so I have to shrink it....But it is obvious that KPMG is taller by quite a bit.

[electricron]

Electron, the problem with your theory is that the buildings are right next to each other, there is no hidden space in between them. They are maybe 70 feet apart. There is not hundreds of "hidden" yards optical illusion like in the photos you are posting. I will try to get a better angle..


So this shot is directly across from KMPG in Lincoln Plaza. I don't think there is any doubt. Not a great picture and this website only allows file sizes up to 110K so I have to shrink it....But it is obvious that KPMG is taller by quite a bit.

1) I'm not going to continue to argue with someone who isn't coherent. How can buildings maybe 70 feet apart have no hidden space in between?

2) Another photo apparently taken from near;y same angle as the first, with the KMPG building clearly closer to the camera, isn't new evidence.

[Alex Rodriguez]

Electricon, no need to get personal.

I am standing directly in front of KPMG in the second photo, at the far Northeast corner of Lincoln Plaza. You can see Lincoln Plaza in the reflection of the glass off of KPMG. You will notice you cannot see the side of KPMG as you could in the first photo. The first photo was from a conference room at the far Northwest tip of Lincoln Plaza, so now I am several hundred feet to the South and East in the second shot.

So now I'm looking at these buildings almost perfectly side by side, and I am around 500 feet up, so I am looking almost directly at the roof lines of both. Yes I may be 50 feet further from Harwood if you drew a triangle. But 50 feet of distance is about the only variable here. Otherwise I am basically looking at the roof lines of both buildings from directly to the side. And these buildings are 500 feet tall. 70 feet in between is nothing. Parallax error doesn't apply here, as its effect from my perspective is miniscule.

The photos you posted are of ships maybe 150 feet tall, max, with thousands of feet inbetween. I'm not saying parallax error isn't factual, I'm saying parallax error doesn't apply here for the reasons I just stated.

So KPMG is taller. I also thought it was shorter before I took the pictures. Now I know the data is wrong. Big deal.

[Alex Rodriguez]

For good measure, here is nice triangulation of the three buildings in question. As you can see by the streets below, the red line is a direct shot from Lincoln to KPMG. The Green line is the distance between KPMG and Harwood. And the blue triangle is the triangulation. It is a right triangle, and the height of the triangle is extremely short, and the base is extremely long.

Quick Math: The length of the triangle is 4x the height, just by using a ruler. If I say I'm 300 feet from KPMG, then Harwood is 75 feet away from KPMG. If you square both numbers that is 90000 + 5675 = 95675. Take the square root of that, and the hypotenuse (distance from Lincoln to Harwood) is 310 feet.

So I am a grand total of 10 feet closer to KPMG, than Harwood. Let's say I'm 20 feet just for kicks.

All to say that I am almost smack in between the two. Final proof could come from someone going to the 40th floor of Energy Plaza, in the Northwest tip, which is about 1 block to the SE of my location in the second photo. This would be almost exactly between KPMG and Harwood, except closer to Harwood....

I would bet the house that KPMG would look taller from there as well.

[Alex Rodriguez]

One Final last point. Bryan Tower is visible behind Harwood Center. Bryan is 9 meters taller than Harwood, and supposedly 10 meters taller than KPMG. It starts a good 75 feet from the back of Harwood, putting it a good 300 feet further from my position than either KPMG or Harwood. Yet it still appears taller than either, anyways!!!

Why doesn't the Parallax effect mess that all up? And the Sheraton is even further back than Bryan and much more to the East, and the Parallax effect doesn't appear to eat up the addtional 25-30 feet in height either.

Its because the Parallax effect has little effect in this equation. These buildings are all 500-560 feet tall and are all within close proximity, and I am viewing all of them from a nearly 90 degree angle. So we are not dealing with a parallax triangle where the two targets are vastly different distances from the source. We are dealing with a long thin right triangle where the targets are standing right next to each other.

The visuals dont lie, KMPG is taller than Harwood. Thanks.

[dfwcre8tive]

You also have to take into consideration any ground elevation changes. It's only a block apart, but there may be a slight change in elevation. KPMG also seems to rest higher up from the street.

[Ersatz]

I love witnessing a hardcore, no holds barred, NERD fight.

[MDE]

I love witnessing a hardcore, no holds barred, NERD fight. Especially one based on guestimation.

[electricron]

Especially one based on guestimation.
It's not a guesstimation if you accept the facts presented by skyscraperpage.com.

Here's their entire list of Dallas skyscrapers over 110 m....

Bank of America Tower 280.7 m
Renaissance Tower with spire* 270.1 m
Commerce Bank Tower 239.9 m
JP Morgan Chase Tower 225 m
Energy Plaza with antenna** 225 m
Fountain Place 219.5 m
Renaissance Tower without spire* 216.4 m
1900 Pacific Avenue 213.4 m
Trammell Crow Center 209.1 m
1700 Pacific 199.7 m
Thanksgiving Tower 196.5 m
Energy Plaza without antenna** 191.7 m
Elm Place 190.5 m
Republic Center Tower I with spire*** 183.5 m
Republic Center Tower II 182.3 m
One AT&T Plaza 176.8 m
Lincoln Plaza 176.5 m
Museum Tower 170.7 m
City-place Center 170.7 m
Sheraton Dallas Hotel 167.6 m
Mercantile National Bank Building with spire**** 159.4 m
Bryan Tower 156.1 m
Magnolia Hotel with spire***** 150.2 m
Harwood Center 147.2 m
KPMG Centre 146.6 m
2100 Ross 139 m
Republic Center Tower I without spire*** 137.8 m
Renaissance Hotel 137.5 m
Adams Mark Hotel North Tower 136.6 m
One Dallas Center 136.6 m
One Main Place 135.6 m
W Dallas Victory Hotel & Residences 134 m
1600 Pacific Tower 132.3 m
Mercantile National Bank Building without spire**** 131.1 m
Magnolia Hotel without spire***** 131.1 m
Mosaic I 121.9 m
Azure 114.3 m

Bryan Tower is more than 8 meters taller than Harwood Center, not HC being just 0.6 meters taller than KPMG Centre. The closer the objects are in height, the larger the parallax error effect caused by distance differences.

Those ships in my earlier post are significantly different in size...
The larger ship usually on the right is a British Type 45 Daring class Destroyer:
Displacement: 7,500 t
Length: 152.4 m
Beam: 21.2 m
The smaller ship will be an Uruguay Ocean Patrol Ship:
Displacement: ~2,000 t
Length: 90.5 m
Beam: 13.5 m

Yes, the smaller ship is approximately half the size of the larger ship. That's like comparing the Bank of America Tower with KPMG Centre, almost 140 m taller, and making it look like the KPMG Centre is larger. It can be done, if you place your camera in the right location. It's much easier to do if the buildings are just 0.6 meters different in height.