DTD: Gulf States Bldg. + 1414 Elm + Third Rail Lofts (1407 Main)(16 ST.)

[mjblazin]

Jason's is open and lunch business looks good.

[aldinger]

P.S. Brinker sold off Corner Bakery a while ago.

Quick survey: would anyone be interested in a book store/cafe in DT? Would it be too much with the library?

[msutton]

I think there's going to have to be at some point. Especially once it really becomes a neighborhood, I would expect to see multiple small used book stores downtown. Despite the internet and huge chains--even huge used chains like Strand and in Dallas Halfprice--in a really energetic urban environment for some reason small bookstores stocking pages filled with the scents of memories tend to continue to thrive, despite the disheartening trend toward corporate-only-bookstores in "normal" suburban America.

[TexasStar]

P.S. Brinker sold off Corner Bakery a while ago.

Quick survey: would anyone be interested in a book store/cafe in DT? Would it be too much with the library?

If I had the resources, that's what I would open.

[dtdresident]

I would love a bookstore in DTD....somewhere to get a cup of coffee and peruse books! I bet it would be packed.

[msutton]

Maybe we should all team up together and open a communally run "Dallas Metropolis Books & Cafe." I'll make the croissants and scones, and stock the playscripts and Italian language literature.

[Lionel Hutz]

I wonder how much it would cost to start up a bookstore/coffee shop.

Lease some space, inventory, employee wages, overhead (electricity, etc.).

You could use some of the space to have live music on Friday night and weekends. I'm sure you could get some small acoustic sets in there.

[UrbanBiker]

P.S. Brinker sold off Corner Bakery a while ago.

Quick survey: would anyone be interested in a book store/cafe in DT? Would it be too much with the library?


I think that a Borders or a Barnes & Noble located Downtown would be great! They have the capital, business model and expertise to do it right.

[xen0blue]

I think that a Borders or a Barnes & Noble located Downtown would be great! They have the capital, business model and expertise to do it right.

I wish they would, what being right across from the university center, the Merc would make a GREAT place for a book store.

I'd also like to see a casual sit-down restaurant, like chilis. The only kind of food downtown is either fast food or really fancy, nothing in between.

[SDORN]

Barnes and Noble would be a good fit here, but I think better in the Merc.

[texcolo2]

Screw Barnes & Noble... they backed out of the old Dr Pepper plant on Mockingbird.

HALF PRICE BOOKS w/ a Black Forest Coffee shop... keep it local.

[SDORN]

Too Bad Half price Didn't move into the Old DR Pepper plant!!! That would have been great.
I think Barnes and Noble wanted more space and a more modern building. such a shame there too.

If you really want to think about that, why could'nt have Forest City have barnes and Noble take over the main lobby(demollished)Dallas Building they could have the two floors of the buildingThey could have recycled those old escalators the were visable on main and that marble that adorned the lobby.

[msutton]

I'd much rather see Half Price than B&N. I'd still rather see Borders--even after working for them--than a Barnes & Noble: though they've gotten to be almost as bad. You walk into one of them and it doesn't feel like a neighborhood treasure chest but a sterilized Lifetime-movie version of a bookstore.

The lack of the independent bookstore (except for Paperbacks Plus in Lakewood, which is not surprisingly far and away the most enjoyable bookstore in Dallas) is one of the things that really grates on me when I'm in town.

[DallasMan]

^I don't know...I tend to like the Borders in the WV. They have lots of random events. I had my gifts gift-wrapped by a local church there the other day. But still, yes, they feel corporate over-all. I agree, Half-Price would be ideal downtown, although the sleek, sophisticated Dallasite in me would hope for a B&N. Or even a Fox Books - "F-O-X" :)

[msutton]

I guess, for me, with B&N and Border's both, I feel like "why go to you, when I could get the same book almost as quickly and for a significant discount from Amazon.com; and there I wouldn't have to deal with little employees asking me if I need help every five minutes, or trying to sell me something I don't want at the cafe." With independent bookstores, preferably those stocking used books (thus knocking out my first two issues with B&N and Borders: price and unique history of each individual book), you're never bothered.

[Mballar]

Is there any more retail space available in the GS/3rd Rail Building?

[Lionel Hutz]

There might be some on the Elm Street side.

[mexila]

:crycloud:

I'm sure it goes without saying, but Jason's Deli could spell the end of the "cafe" at urban market.
I was a big fan of the cafe, but a change in management and menu have made me visit less and less often. I hope they up their game and try to compete.

Meanwhile....Jason's is Grrrreat !

[dfwcre8tive]

:crycloud:

I'm sure it goes without saying, but Jason's Deli could spell the end of the "cafe" at urban market.
I was a big fan of the cafe, but a change in management and menu have made me visit less and less often. I hope they up their game and try to compete.

Meanwhile....Jason's is Grrrreat !

I visit Urban Market Cafe on evenings and weekends. They will keep my business because I'll never be able to eat at Jason's Deli during those times.

[downtownguy25]

^I don't know...I tend to like the Borders in the WV. They have lots of random events. I had my gifts gift-wrapped by a local church there the other day. But still, yes, they feel corporate over-all. I agree, Half-Price would be ideal downtown, although the sleek, sophisticated Dallasite in me would hope for a B&N. Or even a Fox Books - "F-O-X" :)

I laugh how you want something with an anti corp feel downtown.... you know... home of corporations.

[xen0blue]

:crycloud:

I'm sure it goes without saying, but Jason's Deli could spell the end of the "cafe" at urban market.
I was a big fan of the cafe, but a change in management and menu have made me visit less and less often. I hope they up their game and try to compete.

Meanwhile....Jason's is Grrrreat !

No, urban market will be fine because it's so far away from Jason's deli and it's menu differs significantly enough that it they won't compete. I don't see how this can have any effect on urban market at all.

[UrbanBiker]

I laugh how you want something with an anti corp feel downtown.... you know... home of corporations.

Yes, it’s ironic how everyone spits on the Starbucks, Barnes & Nobles, The Gap’s and the Chili’s of the world. But, if they were to relocate their respective Headquarters to Downtown Dallas along with hundreds or even thousands of good paying jobs, they would be dancing in the streets.

[jredallas]

Yes, it’s ironic how everyone spits on the Starbucks, Barnes & Nobles, The Gap’s and the Chili’s of the world. But, if they were to relocate their respective Headquarters to Downtown Dallas along with hundreds or even thousands of good paying jobs, they would be dancing in the streets.

But isn't that part of what it is about? Support the little man who chooses to open up an independent shop in your neighborhood or the corporate giant who has their HQ in your city? I choose Blockbuster online b/c the HQ is in DTD vs. choosing NetFlix. I will darn sure change soon to banking at Comerica instead of Compass b/c the HQ is 3 blocks away from home. And if faced with Chilis vs. TGI Fridays, I choose the Brinker owned brand because of Dallas (though not DTD).

You support those who keep the money closer to home to reinvest in the community. Comerica is already becoming heavily involved in the Dallas community, so support them in return. Brinker has always, so support them too.

And head on over to Bill Records while I'm at it. Just south of DTD but close enough!

[texcolo2]

I wouldn't mind a Bookstop or Border's but I have a deep seeded resentment about Barnes and Noble and the old DP plant.

:realmad8:

Cain't help it. I'm an angry man.

[Tnekster]

But isn't that part of what it is about? Support the little man who chooses to open up an independent shop in your neighborhood or the corporate giant who has their HQ in your city? I choose Blockbuster online b/c the HQ is in DTD vs. choosing NetFlix. I will darn sure change soon to banking at Comerica instead of Compass b/c the HQ is 3 blocks away from home. And if faced with Chilis vs. TGI Fridays, I choose the Brinker owned brand because of Dallas (though not DTD).

You support those who keep the money closer to home to reinvest in the community. Comerica is already becoming heavily involved in the Dallas community, so support them in return. Brinker has always, so support them too.

And head on over to Bill Records while I'm at it. Just south of DTD but close enough!

I don't know if I buy that, especially if they put out a bad product. Are you still going to buy it just because it is closer to home? Blockbuster is a good example of a bad product. The stores suck, not just in selection but just their overall attitude towards the customer. The last time I was in one they refused to rent two videos to me because I did not have my card with me. I did however have my drivers license with me but they refused to accept that since I had not rented a video in over three months. I have never been back and now use PPV when I want something at home. I would rather buy something because it is a good product or they offer exceptional customer service rather than this issue about them being Dallas based.

[DallasMan]

^I think what he was talking about was Blockbuster Online vs. Netflix, where Blockbuster is in fact better b/c you can take the DVDs to the store to exchange (sorry, no Netflix retail outlets, no-can-do). In that regard, I happily support a Dallas-based company.

Come on, how many of you have bought something at Neimans that you probably shouldn't have, but did anyway just b/c its NM and Dallas?!? I am guilty of that...

[Tnekster]

^I think what he was talking about was Blockbuster Online vs. Netflix, where Blockbuster is in fact better b/c you can take the DVDs to the store to exchange (sorry, no Netflix retail outlets, no-can-do). In that regard, I happily support a Dallas-based company.

Come on, how many of you have bought something at Neimans that you probably shouldn't have, but did anyway just b/c its NM and Dallas?!? I am guilty of that...

Ya but you are supporting Blockbuster because in this case it is a better product for you and you don't really have any other choice if you want the convenience of utilizing a video mail system that has retail outlets nearby. What other company does that?

Regarding Neiman Marcus, I can't speak for other people but I have never purchased anything at Neimans just because they are based here. Again, it goes to quality and customer service and Neiman Marcus offers both. I would still shop there even if they were based somewhere else.

[barrycb]

And if faced with Chilis vs. TGI Fridays, I choose the Brinker owned brand because of Dallas (though not DTD).


Both companies are Dallas based. Carlson owns TGI Fridays.

[Kelley USA]

Both companies are Dallas based. Carlson owns TGI Fridays.

Yes, most people probably do not know that... Carlson Restaurants is located here- but the parent company "Carlson Companies" is located in Minneapolis. They also own Carlson Wagonlit Travel, Raddison Hotels, Park Plaza Hotels and Seven Seas Cruises. Wiki indicates they have over 170,000 employees worldwide...

[msutton]

I don't know if I buy that, especially if they put out a bad product. Are you still going to buy it just because it is closer to home? Blockbuster is a good example of a bad product. The stores suck, not just in selection but just their overall attitude towards the customer. The last time I was in one they refused to rent two videos to me because I did not have my card with me. I did however have my drivers license with me but they refused to accept that since I had not rented a video in over three months. I have never been back and now use PPV when I want something at home. I would rather buy something because it is a good product or they offer exceptional customer service rather than this issue about them being Dallas based.
That's part of civic pride. If you don't care so much, then that shows that you're more interested in your home than your environment. Which is perfectly fine, but it's a manifestation of the fact that most people in Dallas really don't care how the city does apart from how it affects them directly (aka financially).

And supporting a local business doesn't just mean patronizing consistantly -- though that's part of it. It also means taking a stake, writing to the big-guys and saying "Hey, guys, from a concerned neighbor, this is what's wrong. I still support you because you're from Dallas, but if you don't look into this, I don't know that I can continue recommending you in good faith." That's valid. Happens at one of my favorite New York coffee shops off of Ave. B on a fairly consistant basis... new art on the walls, you'll find people coming in and saying "I've been coming here for two years, I love you guys, but seriously: It's me or the bleeding dolphin. You can't have both."

[jredallas]

Both companies are Dallas based. Carlson owns TGI Fridays.

Touché

I guess that was a bad example then, but my point (that does seem to be steering off topic for this thread) remains the same.

[LongonBigD]

I wouldn't mind a Bookstop or Border's but I have a deep seeded resentment about Barnes and Noble and the old DP plant.
You won't ever see another Bookstop. They were bought by Barnes & Noble years ago. The Bookstops (and Bookstars in LA, CA, and TN) left are the ones they dont want to upgrade to a B&N. I suppose they will when the leases expire.

Not sure I understand why you are angry @ B&N re DP plant. It was my understanding that they were willing to put a flagship store in the building but that the developer couldn't get any other retailers to come along and the space was too much for just a B&N. B&N flagship was subsequently built at Lincoln Park. Is there something I'm not aware of? Anybody else remember the old Bookstop next to Burger King on Mockingbird - now a mattress shop? At least Premiere Video is still going strong. If you've never been in there, you are missing an incredible DVD selection.

BTW - our money goes to Borders given the option between the two brick & morter corporate entities (luckily the WV store is the closest bookstore to me anyway), otherwise amazon.

[msutton]

Have you been to Paperbacks Plus? If you're in the WV it's not too far from you. If you're just browsing for a new (used) book, it's awesome. One of my favorite places in Dallas, retail or otherwise.

[LongonBigD]

Have you been to Paperbacks Plus? If your in the WV it's not too far from you. If you're just browsing for a new (used) book, it's awesome. One of my favorite places in Dallas, retail or otherwise.
Been a customer of PBP since before the fire at Lakewood SC. I shopped there when I lived on Lowest Greenville - where has the time gone? You are right, its a great place, but not walking distance from Knox/Henderson where we live.

The Papberbacks Plus in Mesquite cracks me up. They put boxes of books they can't sell out on the sidewalk after they close at night - you can just walk up and take anything that catches your eye (unfortunately the selection of freebies tends toward pb romance novels - they must get a lot of those in Mesquite).

[DallasMan]

So, for this thread's sake, did we ever decide whether or not ALL the retail space in this building had been filled?

If so, I feel like I've seen a few empty storefronts elsewhere on Main that could be filled if anyone is looking....:)

[dfwcre8tive]

So, for this thread's sake, did we ever decide whether or not ALL the retail space in this building had been filled?

If so, I feel like I've seen a few empty storefronts elsewhere on Main that could be filled if anyone is looking....:)

The ground floor retail space in the old Mayfair building on the corner of Elm/Akard is still for lease. And I think there's a very small space next to Jason's Deli.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=dallas,+tx&ie=UTF8&ll=32.781017,-96.799979&spn=0.001175,0.002358&z=19&om=0&layer=c&cbll=32.780417,-96.800206&cbp=1,370.60692415650584,,0,-5.101832530005347

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=dallas,+tx&ie=UTF8&ll=32.781887,-96.799719&spn=0.001175,0.002358&z=19&om=0&layer=c&cbll=32.781288,-96.799878&cbp=1,165.7932731310679,,0,2.811269618498842

[jsoto3]

And I think there's a very small space next to Jason's Deli.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=dallas,+tx&ie=UTF8&ll=32.781017,-96.799979&spn=0.001175,0.002358&z=19&om=0&layer=c&cbll=32.780417,-96.800206&cbp=1,370.60692415650584,,0,-5.101832530005347
That's the tower entrance/lobby.

[cowboyeagle05]

I know this is bringing up bad memories but what time does Jason's Deli open in the morning cause I will be going downtown tomorrow morning and I am trying to figure out when they open if they do for breakfast. I usually go to Corner Bakery in the West End but I am trying to find other places to go for breakfast downtown. Their website seems to suggest they are not really a breakfast place more Lunch for businesses and walk in business only around lunch time. I read the earlier commentary on this thread but only saw when they closed not when they open. Any info would be helpful thanks!

[FoUTASportscaster]

7 am

[cowboyeagle05]

7 am


Thanks so I guess they do have a better breakfast time than I thought they might after the search I did last night. I am still amazed how many places do not post there location hours anywhere on the internet but I guess they might intend to work under a cloud of mystery. I even called around 2:00am and they didn't have an answering machine to tell me when to call back when they open.

Do we know if the developers of this project are looking or are moving on some other property in downtown cause they have done such an excellent job with this project bringing so many pieces together. Cause the developer behind Stone Street just did the Neiman Marcus pass through the Linz building project. That developer seems to have a eye for the small but useful projects that work well together and build on past successful projects.

[dfwcre8tive]

Do we know if the developers of this project are looking or are moving on some other property in downtown cause they have done such an excellent job with this project bringing so many pieces together. Cause the developer behind Stone Street just did the Neiman Marcus pass through the Linz building project. That developer seems to have a eye for the small but useful projects that work well together and build on past successful projects.


UCR handled the retail in this building, and they are also responsible for the Merc's retail along with other buildings downtown.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Hopefully in the future, UCR will do a better job with the retailers hours.

[dfwcre8tive]

The new building opens soon. Here are a few photos of the finish-out of the historic building and the view from the amenities deck. I also loved the bowling alley in the basement, but no photos of that.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2281/gs01le4.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9972/elmsx7.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3381/gs02jl0.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1889/gs03iv7.jpg

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4494/gs04xp8.jpg

[Nagih12]

Great pics, and thanks for the update! :)

[sitazn]

1407 will indeed open soon, They will be taking orders for it starting on thursday, but if you already live in the building then you can put your deposit down on wednesday.

[aygriffith]

...

[Dr. Thunder]

Great pics!!! Has anyone heard if the have closed on retail for the section facing commerce?

[FoUTASportscaster]

No, the retail facing Elm Street is still empty with those stupids dots on the windows.

[dfwcre8tive]

The leasing office was mentioning a possible bookstore or salon going in that space, but that was all rumors since they don't handle the retail leasing.

[cowboyeagle05]

What I am wondering is if the Downtown Dallas Association using their "Find your DSpot" campaign is trying to market the retail with the spots on the windows together, kind of like a Mall developer would. They work with the building owners to get support for the campaign, which includes putting spots on the windows as visual representation of community and business support, and when they have a significant square footage available they will aggressively market the space just like a Mall developer would. They seem to have more of the renovated spaces signed on, the ones with the "DSpots decals". This makes it an easier sell to the Suburban retailers when they can show a large amount of ready to go street front space together in one area. That way you don't wait on small jobs that bring in a couple retailers that die out when nobody else comes in. One big push could get things stabilized and spur further development in all buildings that have street front space thats not renovated or modernized.

Kinda of like the West End is doing. The older building next the Dart station that has sat empty for years now was recently renovated to be able to accept restaurant and retailers finish out. Plus the New under construction project across the Dart Line will have newly built spaces for businesses to move in with minor finish out depending on the type of business. These spaces along with whats empty in 1001 Ross makes enough street front retail space to make the area attractive to a large push of retailers/restaurants/businesses to move in all at the same time just like a new Mall. Its hard to get things going when just one or two move in a year, but if a business association can list that much space together and take it to possible tenets they could get enough maybes together you get a bunch of actual movement on Main Street, West End, and feeder streets to those areas. The thing thats most important is getting enough neighborhood service like cleaners, convenience stores, Pharmacies, grocery store, laundry mat. While there are already those businesses downtown we can not forget that this must be a neighborhood not just another Mall with a Gap.