The Dallas Farmers Market

[gc]

Summit aims to improve Farmers Market
08:27 AM CDT on Friday, October 3, 2003
By BILL BROWN / WFAA-TV
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/business/stories/wfaa031002_am_farmersmkt.5542d4e5.html

Tomatoes, squash, beans, corn, peaches, pears, apples, flowers ... if you want it, they often have it at the Dallas Farmers Market. The facility, a downtown fixture for 62 years, is supposed to be a city attraction, but some think it's anything but. Now city officials are saying "enough is enough" and taking action. Though the market is still a somewhat-hidden jewel in a corner of the central business district, critics feel it badly needs polishing. The facility already is good in some ways, though, so a two-day summit plans to help make it even better. Farmers, vendors, developers, downtown residents, and city leaders all are hoping to talk, trade ideas, and try to draw a blueprint for the market's future.
"Where do we go from here? How do we make the market a bigger, greater attraction ... a place where folks hop in their cars and are willing to come down here to spend their time and their money?" asked City Council member Lois Finkelman.

One frequent complaint is that the place is tacky: old rusting trucks and trailers that sit under the sheds look as if they haven't moved in years, and big stacks of debris are piled in various spots around the market's grounds. City officials said they are cracking down and enforcing long-unused codes, telling the vendors "it's our way or the highway." J. T. Lemley has been coming to the Farmers Market for 30 years. He grows his produce on his farm at Canton and trucks it in to sell. However, Lemley said a lot of other farmers felt ignored by City Hall, so they pulled out.

"The thing that stopped them from coming here is the space," Lemley said. "There's not enough space as there used to be for the farmers ... we've been just about squeezed out." Some have suggested the city take a cue from other cities' markets and put on festivals. For example, an event can be held featuring all kinds of bread or exotic cheeses. Many feel this would create a little excitement. As the summit commences, the floor is open for any and all new ideas.

[gc]

In case you have never been to the Farmers Market, you should. It is really a neat place and a treasure the city. The fruits and veggies are extremely good. Here is the website or further information http://www.dallasfarmersmarket.org/

[gc]

Cultivating new ideas for Farmers Market
12:06 AM CDT on Saturday, October 4, 2003
By SELWYN CRAWFORD / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/localnews/stories/100403dnmetfarmersmarket.41825.html

A few folks gathered at the Dallas Farmers Market for two days this week to plant some seeds. They're hoping for a bountiful harvest: to make the market a Dallas hot spot. "The sky's the limit," said Troy E. Thorn, administrator of the Farmers Market. At the Thursday and Friday summit, farmers sat side by side with official-looking city types. Vendors who ordinarily trade in green beans and tomatoes mulled the idea of juice bars, fine restaurants and bakeries. "Other communities ... their markets are seen as destination terminals, not just as produce production sites," Mr. Thorn said.

"If we get outside the box, outside of doing it the way we've always done it, we can make the Dallas Farmers Market a destination spot, too." City Council members Veletta Forsythe Lill and Lois Finkelman hosted the conference to plot the market's future. They were joined by about 75 city officials, staff members, farmers, vendors and market supporters. Farmers Market consultant Vance Corum of Portland, Ore., directed the sessions. Attendees discussed a variety of issues – security, parking, privatization – that might help attract visitors and make for a more vibrant downtown district. "I think it was a great success," Ms. Finkelman said of the summit. "I think the good news is everyone is talking to each other."

Ms. Lill said a mix of businesses and activities might include restaurants, wine tastings and fall festivals. "I want folks to use the market for more than picking up fruits and vegetables," Ms. Lill said. "I want it to be a destination, not just an afterthought." For two days, those at the summit listened to the sermon-like words of Mr. Corum, who is regarded as an expert at creating and strengthening farmer's markets. Then they huddled in small groups to discuss how to carry out those plans. The Farmers Market has been plagued in recent years with flagging interest, and farmers and retail vendors are sometimes at odds. Some of the attendees said farmers have opted not to sell their goods at the market because they think some vendors get most of the preferred spots.

But both sides agreed this week that they want to see improvements, including additional parking for customers. "There ain't no parking," said Armando Molina, a fruit and vegetable farmer who runs a stand with his brothers. "People say, 'I don't like to come because there's no parking.' " R.L. Graham, a dealer who has been coming to the Farmers Market since 1954, said he was concerned that the suggested improvements might put him out of business. One of the proposals is to make one of the market's four sheds a farmers-only site. "I'm worried because I'm under the shed that they want to change to a farmers-only shed," Mr. Graham said, adding that he has been in the same location for 24 years. "I've got four generations of my family working for me. I hate to be railroaded out.

"All we do is pay our rent and take care of our dedicated customers. The way they talked at this thing, the farmer is everything and the dealer is nothing." Mr. Corum said that the proposal wasn't meant to slight vendors but that farmers are "the soul" of any good farmer's market. "If we can bring them back into the fold in a big way, then we can establish a fresher, tastier, more local product," Mr. Corum said. Tony Johns, a retired city employee who spent 21 years working at the Farmers Market, said farmers are close to her heart. "It's the farmers who made this market," she said. "And it's the farmers that the customers come to see." City officials, who must decide how to spend a $3.2 million bond improvements package approved in May, will await a report from Mr. Corum before proceeding.

Mr. Corum said he hopes to complete the report within 30 to 45 days. After the study is reviewed by the Farmers Market staff, it will be forwarded to the City Council for review. Some customers said they didn't know what the fuss was all about. "It satisfies my needs right now," Ferguson Eli of Dallas said as he shopped at the market Thursday with his wife, Jo Ann. "I'm a farm boy who doesn't like to farm, so this is my farm right here. "I love to tell people that I've got the prettiest, ripest tomatoes in town."

E-mail scrawford@dallasnews.com
---------------------------------------------------
A list of some of the suggestions that came to:

Investigate privatizing part or all of the Farmers Market
Expand customer parking
Diversify products
Eliminate on-site vendor parking
Explore starting a Thursday Farmer's Market at the Akard DART station
Increase marketing
Clean up the property and enforce city codes
Increase security
Establish a method to do "sanitary" sampling of products

[rantanamo]

I love the place as is, for it's feel. It's not sanitary, but rather is what it is. I can see the point though, to attract those who love the 'sterile' environment. I think the surroundings and code enforcement are all that are needed to make the place more appealing. Clean the place up, and keep it that way. Make the barnes more open air and street like, where the streets are actually pedestrian type malls with fountains and benches in the middle instead of parking structures. Create incentive for developers to create mixed-use development closer to the market. Move the wholesale producers to the otherside of Harwood.

[bloodandpopcorn]

I'm with you, rantanamo! Those changes would make the area much more cohesive and enjoyable to be in. I love it as it is, but, there is a lot of room for improvement and to really make it a Dallas landmark. Something that everyone has to come to when they are here, in addition to being a great asset for residents.

[tgp]

It's a shame that the vendors will be paying a HUGE increase in their monthly rent to the City of Dallas. The price per square foot is decreasing for lofts nearby. I feel bad for them!!! :(

[rantanamo]

Isn't that title a little alarmist?

[tgp]

If you watched the news coverage and the feedback from the Vendors that stated "All of our money goes toward the rent and we can't pay anymore than we are currently." If they can't pay the new rent, then wouldn't they be forced to leave?????

[The Great Hizzy!]

Did they mention the prospects of raising prices of goods? Do they think that will have to negative an impact?

[tgp]

No, they didn't mention about price increase.

[rantanamo]

Those vendors are not what make the market run. The REAL market goes on overnight where the farmers sell the bulk to the various distributers that are all around the Farmers Market area. That is where the money is made. The day "show" market that we see, actually is pretty successful. That's why there are so many 3rd party vendors(Probably 90% are merely vendors) there. Of course they will complain and not like the raise, but to say it will die or is "struggling" as channel 8 tried to say is contrasting to Belo's own article not too long ago.

[mikedsjr]

Laura Miller said something about adding security to the Farmer's Market. I think that is supposed to cost the vendors more which will increase prices. She said that it still won't make our Market as expensive as other FMs.

[rantanamo]

^I think you saw what I saw. Didn't they say the rents hadn't been changed in 12 years or something like that.

[clipper]

The best Farmers Markets around the country are those where the city stays out of the mix and lets the vendors create the markeplace. There's one I go to in Santa Fe like that where folks basically sell stuff out of the back of pickups and such. As soon as the city starts seeing $$$$ signs you know you've got trouble.

[mikedsjr]

I haven't been to the Farmer's Market in probably 20 years. Do they still sell stuff out of pickup trucks? I typically go to Canton anyway. I'm not much into produce shopping anyway, so for me Canton is much more in line and much bigger.

[rantanamo]

The market is still the same as I remember during the day. What has changed is there are now vendors who buy from the farmers to sell during the day. The farmers are too busy with the night market now, where some really make big dollars selling to the produce distributors like Nogales or Del Monte. Its unknown to most, but this is a huge industry in Dallas. Especially in the Cedars and Farmers Market area.

[gc]

Tim Dickey: Farmer's Market needs rejuvenation – not demolition
07:33 PM CST on Monday, January 10, 2005
By TIM DICKEY
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/011105dnedifarmersmarket.792b.html

I first became involved with the urban disaster zone surrounding the Dallas Farmer's Market in the mid-1990s when I was a reporter at one of the local television stations. I had done a series of stories that looked into the millions of dollars the city of Dallas had recently spent "renovating" the Farmer's Market, only to find that, in the minds of many citizens and vendors, it had completely ruined the place. There was a new pedestrian-only plaza, a fancy new administration building, and a new (mostly empty) multimillion-dollar enclosed Shed 2. As part of the plan, the streets leading into the market had been rerouted, and over the months of construction the customers had drifted away. According to the vendors, they weren't coming back.

The area surrounding the Farmer's Market was bleak. To the east, along the lower reaches of Central Expressway, lay vast expanses of undeveloped land. To the west, a jungle of razor wire-topped chain link fences encircled acres of empty, overgrown lots and mostly vacant warehouses. All of this was within easy walking distance of Dallas City Hall. In the intervening 10 years, an almost predictable cycle has developed: Every two or three years, some elected official, or The Dallas Morning News –or both – comes out with a plaintive cry of "somebody needs to do something about this," which then fades away, and nothing ever happens.

The latest example of that came a few weeks ago, when a group of Farmer's Market vendors went down to City Hall to address the City Council. They said the city was driving them out of business and they complained bitterly about the way the city was running the market. When the vendors finished speaking, council members announced that the city had recently contracted with a group of consultants to conduct an economic development plan and architectural analysis for the Farmer's Market. Then one council member said he'd been hearing the same complaints for years and suggested that, since the situation never seemed to improve, the consultants should also look at the feasibility of doing away with the Farmer's Market altogether.

This is crazy. We need to go in the opposite direction and affirm that this city will do whatever it takes to rejuvenate the Farmer's Market and the surrounding area. We've already spent a fortune there, and, through the 2003 bond package, voters have just committed to spending an additional $3 million to upgrade and air-condition the long-troubled Shed 2. Plus, recent developments in that part of town indicate that throwing in the towel is the last thing we should consider. For one thing, huge numbers of people are moving in – and I'm not referring to the homeless. Immediately to the east of the market, the 50-plus acres that were vacant 10 years ago are now filled with apartments and townhouses, and the dirt is still flying. As a result of the tax reinvestment district the city created in 1998, Camden Realty is investing $120 million to build over 1,200 upscale residences, with the city investing over $6 million of the incremental tax revenue in infrastructure and streetscapes. Go take a look. It's an exciting development that could create the critical mass of residents that will usher in the long-awaited turnaround in the area.

To the south, the gaping canyon that is the Interstate 30 corridor is going to be redone as part of the Texas Department of Transportation's Project Pegasus – a billion- dollar investment that will completely reshape the downtown freeway system. One Project Pegasus proposal envisions a series of enormous decks over the freeway, creating a vast pedestrian promenade that would fully link southeastern downtown and the Farmer's Market with Old City Park and the now-thriving Cedars neighborhood. This could totally transform the look and feel of the entire lower downtown area, making it a nice place to be for the first time in many decades.

From where I sit, the future seems bright, not bleak. If you agree, please attend tonight's community workshop, and let the planners know what you think should happen in the Farmer's Market and lower downtown area.

Tim Dickey is chairman of the Farmer's Market Tax Increment Financing District. His e-mail address is tdickey28@sbcglobal.net.

How to participate
The Farmer's Market-Lower Downtown community workshop will be tonight from 6 to 9:30 p.m. at the Black Academy of Arts and Letters in the Dallas Convention Center theater complex at 650 S. Griffin St. For more information, check the Forward Dallas! link at www.dallascityhall.com.

[RobertB]

Just for reference... one of the most logical subway routings, IMHO, would serve the Farmers Market area. It's not obvious from the ground, but right across I-30 is a strip of old railroad ROW that leads directly to the DART tracks. Depending on the impact of Project Pegasus, you could have a subway station entrance right in the heart of Farmer's Market, cross under I-30, and come out of the ground in the industrial area near the Pilgrim's Pride chicken plant. Full details in the Rail forum (http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=2746) -- here's a map of one possible routing, overlaid on the Project Pegasus plans, and an aerial of the connection to existing DART rail.

By the way, please (please!) feel free to print out any of my maps you like and scatter them in the general vicinity of anyone who might be interested! Wish I could attend tonight's forum myself, even though I live out with the Farmers, far from the Market.

[Wineguy2000]

I walk there every sunday with the pups and and noticed the big furniture store(east India Tradia Company) pulled out of the bazaar making it look empty. A sad site.

[trolleygirl]

Soooo, who is planning on attending this workshop?

[gc]

Soooo, who is planning on attending this workshop?

TG....honest to goodness I planned on attending...instead I am going to Lewisville.

[Columbus Civil]

...

[gc]

...


:cheers:

[gc]

^ Anyone anyone...TG?

[trolleygirl]

Yes I went. You people suck.

All the tables wanted to put a new 24-hour Super Wal-Mart to replace the aging sheds at the Farmer's Market and move all those poor farmers down to the new Trinity River plan.

[RobertB]

Yes I went. You people suck.

All the tables wanted to put a new 24-hour Super Wal-Mart to replace the aging sheds at the Farmer's Market and move all those poor farmers down to the new Trinity River plan.
*lol* Maybe they could cover the canyon with Big Box retailers, and change the exits to say "Wal-Mart next right", "Best Buy exit left", and "Toys R Us 1/4 mi".

[texman]

Yes I went. You people suck.

All the tables wanted to put a new 24-hour Super Wal-Mart to replace the aging sheds at the Farmer's Market and move all those poor farmers down to the new Trinity River plan.


Your not serious are you?

[RobertB]

Back to reality... I wrote to Mr. Dickey, the writer of the editorial in the DMN (and chairman of the FM TIF), to ask his thoughts about how a future subway line would affect the Farmer's Market area. He gave me permission to post his reply here. First, my note to him:


Thank you very much for your insightful and challenging editorial in today's
Dallas Morning News. Your conclusion that the future of the Farmer's Market
area is bright is borne out daily, as anyone who drives down Good-Latimer or
Old Central Expressway can clearly see.

Your piece was also posted on the forum at dallasmetropolis.com, an online
community discussing the future of the D/FW area, with a particular focus on
the central city. It is part of a long thread with several suggestions for the
Farmer's Market area, from the mundane to the impossible. If you find time to
visit, you might find some interesting viewpoints -- both from directly
affected residents and from others who seldom even enter the downtown area.
Here's a link to the the thread:

The Dallas Farmers Market
http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?p=49666

I'm one of the varied voices on the thread, and I'm especially curious about one
particular long-term project that will affect the Farmer's Market area.
Sometime in the next decade, DART will have to build a subway line through the
downtown core, as the number of trains travelling at street level more than
doubles by 2009. As a fan of DART's Light Rail system, I've attempted to make
some educated guesses about the ideal location for the future subway lines. I
believe Farmer's Market is ideally situated along one of the lowest-cost
routing options, with the existing tunnel just to the north and the DART
maintenance spur located just to the south. While the Project Pegasus plans
will help eliminate the perceived barriers around the Farmer's Market, a DART
subway station under the market has the potential to be a long-term development
catalyst.

I am sorry I can not attend tonight's meeting, but I wish you success with your
plans to bring a concentrated focus on the Farmer's Market area. Good luck,
and God bless!


Dear Mr. Brooks:

Thank you for writing. And thanks for sending the link to the dallasmetropolis.com site.

Very interesting reading. I'm going to check out those maps. The session last nigh was very interesting. There were 15 tables, each with seven or eight people, working on a huge aerial photo of the area, using little colored bits of paper to show where they'd like to have various kinds of development, like bike trails, tramways, parks, schools, mixed-use residential and retail (shops over retail, residence over retail, office over retail, for example. Every single group independently decided to build the enormous decks over IH 30, linking downtown and the Cedars and Farmers Market and Old City Park. The aerial photos were very interesting. They were about four by six feet, and you could easily see the big picture, plus fine detail.

Amazingly, the consultants are now going to take all the ideas that all the citizens in the various workshops had, digitally scan each group's work, then use some high-powered computer modeling program to collate everything, then bring the findings back out to the citizens at a series of meetings later this month and early February.

The first "Community Workshop Results" meeting will be from 5:30 to 8PM, Monday, January 24 at Thomas Jefferson High School, 4001 Walnut Hill Lane.

You've hit a subject that is dear to my heart--a subway system under downtown. Over the years, I"ve found there's an amazing amount of resistance to this idea. About four years ago, I was at a meeting of the Northwest Light Rail Major Investment Study Community Work Group, as we were debating where the Northwest Light Rail should go, and I mentioned the subway idea. The gentleman who represented the downtown business group almost came out of his chair, saying, "You must be crazy, there's NEVER going to be subways under downtown.". Other than marking that attitude down to that particular brand of blockheaded Dallas business big-shot arrogance (the quality of leadership that has led to the wasteland that is downtown today), I was unable to fathom why he had such objections to what seemed to me a perfectly plausible idea.

In fact, the North Texas area is blessed with the finest tunnelling medium on the planet--white Austin Chalk. That's why that underground line up Central came out way ahead of schedule and under budget. In my mind, we should be tunnelling under the Park Cities, too.

However, there's even resistance to the idea of building a tunnel to link the Northwest Light Rail line to Love Field. The Federal government has decided that they won't pay for it ($160 million), and it doesn't look like the citizens of North Texas want to spend the money either.

Anyway, thanks for writing, and I'll be visiting dallasmetropolis in the future.

Best Regards,

Tim Dickey

[texman]

You would think that downtown buisness would want a subway but with attitudes like that... Im glad trolleygirl wasnt serious. When I first read that, whoah. What were the plans laid out?

[RobertB]

You would think that downtown buisness would want a subway but with attitudes like that... Im glad trolleygirl wasnt serious. When I first read that, whoah. What were the plans laid out?
My first thought is that the subway opponents were reacting out of fear. They support LRT, but they don't want the routes to Pleasant Grove, Irving, and Carrollton/FB held up while DART tries to round up funding for a subway. Same problem as with the Love Field tunnel, really... it would be nice, but not nice enough to delay or cancel some other part of the expansion.

Or at least, that's what I hope they were thinking -- and I can easily see some Pointy-Haired Boss type presenting it as a "you must be nuts" comment instead of as a rational discussion.

[trolleygirl]

You would think that downtown buisness would want a subway but with attitudes like that... Im glad trolleygirl wasnt serious. When I first read that, whoah. What were the plans laid out?

HAHA! I was trying to get a rise out of you guys......to rib you about what happens when you miss out on important workshops such as this and let all planning go to people who aren't quite as visionary as we forummers are.

I've known Tim for a long time, he is an active community leader and very brave.

[tamtagon]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/053005dnmetfarmersmarket.f8184790.html

07:42 AM CDT on Monday, May 30, 2005

By DAVE LEVINTHAL / The Dallas Morning News

Here's the open secret about the Dallas Farmers Market: Hardly any farmers work there these days.

LOUIS DeLUCA/DMN

Dallas' Farmers Market has plenty of fruits and vegetables to offer, but growers have been in short supply. Real farmers, that is. Most of the folks selling zucchinis or watermelons are vendors and wholesalers who buy, then resell, produce. Fresh from the farm it's necessarily not.

Market operators and city politicians vow that the growers will soon populate stalls designated for them that today largely stand empty. It's part of Dallas' effort to lure more traffic to a revitalized market that prioritizes farm-to-sale produce over fruits and vegetables sold by middlemen.

"Our patrons have called for a reintroduction of farmers to the Farmers Market," said Troy Thorn, manager of the market at 1010 S. Pearl Expressway. "This should not be and is not a produce terminal. It never has been, it never will be. Customers expect to see actual farmers selling farm-fresh produce."

During the peak selling season last year, farmers occupied about 8 percent of the 64-year-old market's stall space, Mr. Thorn said. Come peak season 2005, which begins in several weeks, he expects that number to rise to 26 percent, with farmers traveling to downtown Dallas from throughout the state.

Combine this with special events ranging from live concerts and karaoke to cooking classes, and the market will thrive, officials say.

Upset over changes

Not everyone, however, is so thrilled with the planned changes.

The market's economic lifeblood remains vendors and wholesalers, some of whom have spent their entire lives trucking in and selling produce by the bushel and box. At night, when most of downtown is desolate, the Farmers Market is abuzz, fistfuls of corn, cantaloupes and cash trading hands.

Earlier this year, market managers moved the wholesalers and vendors from Shed 4, a spacious metal shelter at the market's southwest corner now dedicated to farmers, to Shed 1, near South Central Expressway.

The shed abuts several corporate produce businesses, and the ensuing traffic is creating nightmarish jams, with 60-foot-long rigs sometimes struggling to park for a half-hour, and smaller trucks nearly clipping off one another's mirrors as they attempt to navigate Taylor Street, a habitually clogged road at the market's edge.

Some of the wholesalers say they suddenly feel unwelcome in a market they've called home for years, even decades.

"We can't do business. We've been losing money," said Johnny Rodriguez, who has worked at the market since the 1960s, starting with his father. "I feel like the city is trying to push us out. But I don't want to leave – we've made our life here."

Mr. Rodriguez says he appreciates the city's desire to attract more farmers. But "the few farmers that come in are here for three months, then leave. We're still here afterward."

The results of a city-commissioned report on Farmers Market operations are due sometime this summer.

Balancing needs

At that point, market officials may assess how to balance vendors' needs with their desire to make the market more farmer-friendly, said City Council member Veletta Forsythe Lill, whose District 14 includes the market and most of downtown.

The market also includes sheds filled with flower vendors, artisans and meat and seafood sellers.

"We must continue to have a good product mix. And whatever changes are made, all parties have to be engaged in the changes, everyone has to be part of the discussion," Ms. Lill said.

"We'll always have to have opportunities for vendors and wholesalers, no matter what changes we make," said council member Lois Finkelman, a longtime market backer.

"And while these changes may be a little rocky, ultimately, it will be worth it," Ms. Lill said.

Elaine Anders, president of Paradise Produce, a private wholesaling company that operates next to the market, says she sure hopes so.

These days, traffic near the market's cramped Shed 1 sometimes gets so thick that her trucks can't unload at her building's docks.

"See what's happening here?" Ms. Anders lamented early one recent morning as a rig filled with onions was stuck for 20 minutes. "Years ago, the city ran farmers off with their policies. Now, they're going to run the wholesalers off, and they're going to hurt my business. The city has to clean this up."

Mr. Thorn agrees that today's situation isn't ideal.

But many of the market's wholesalers must realize that the market isn't designed to accommodate them, he said.

"There comes time when these entrepreneurs need to make a business decision," Mr. Thorn said. "It's very apparent we can't accommodate all of them. So we've tried to educate and inform them that we may not be the best market for all of them."

In the meantime, Mr. Thorn says he's looking ahead to local farmers filling Shed 4, where the wholesalers and vendors hawked their produce as recently as March. They may be bare today, but by summer, all of the shed's 40 stalls will be filled, he promised.

E-mail dlevinthal@dallasnews.com

[tamtagon]

Just wondering again, and it's back to using DART LTR for transporting light cargo.

What if - the Port of Houston and City of Dallas get built the agile port in South Dallas County AND DART train connect the CBD to the heart of the cargo processing facility. New LRT cars are ordered specifically designed to shuttle light cargo (suchs as fruit, vegetables, flowers, and other non-durable goods) between the agile port and a Farmers Market Station with accommodations for passengers and cargo. The DART/Agile port loading docks serve the trains coming up from the Port of Houston as well as the farmers trucking seasonal produce to Dallas.

The 24 hour operation at the agile port should be a steady source of traffic along the DART rail system providing a steady supply of passengers during regular hours, but more importantly, Farmers Market cargo trains will operate only in the middle of the night, and will underwright limited passenger service 24-hours a day. Other DART stations will be built/modified to receive light cargo from the Agile port.

The Dallas Farmers Market truck congestion would be relieved and the uber-connectivity of the agile port lowers transportation costs for local farmers. But, the really big thing in all of this - the Farmers Market becomes the backbone of the downtown Dallas shopping experience. Planned as a mixed-use extention of the agile port, the Farmers Market DART station houses retail outlets for almost every conceivable farm product from around the world. When local farmers are growing rather than harvesting, the Farmers Market vendors continue to sell fresh produce imported from elsewhere. Fresh flowers are flown into the anticipated cargo airport (as part of Dallas NAFTA Trade Corridor), and ride a DART cargo car for distribution at the Farmers Market.

More than any tax incentive to help clean up an unhealthful historic building, investing public money to expand the Farmers Market into a much more dynamic year-round "retail/living center" will generate exponential returns to city/county coffers - and Dallas area residents get another unique shopping venue.

I would have to add, that the Trinity Rail Express MUST operate a similar route between the agile port and downtown Fort Worth.

[texman]

Just wondering again, and it's back to using DART LTR for transporting light cargo.

What if - the Port of Houston and City of Dallas get built the agile port in South Dallas County AND DART train connect the CBD to the heart of the cargo processing facility. New LRT cars are ordered specifically designed to shuttle light cargo (suchs as fruit, vegetables, flowers, and other non-durable goods) between the agile port and a Farmers Market Station with accommodations for passengers and cargo. The DART/Agile port loading docks serve the trains coming up from the Port of Houston as well as the farmers trucking seasonal produce to Dallas.

The 24 hour operation at the agile port should be a steady source of traffic along the DART rail system providing a steady supply of passengers during regular hours, but more importantly, Farmers Market cargo trains will operate only in the middle of the night, and will underwright limited passenger service 24-hours a day. Other DART stations will be built/modified to receive light cargo from the Agile port.

The Dallas Farmers Market truck congestion would be relieved and the uber-connectivity of the agile port lowers transportation costs for local farmers. But, the really big thing in all of this - the Farmers Market becomes the backbone of the downtown Dallas shopping experience. Planned as a mixed-use extention of the agile port, the Farmers Market DART station houses retail outlets for almost every conceivable farm product from around the world. When local farmers are growing rather than harvesting, the Farmers Market vendors continue to sell fresh produce imported from elsewhere. Fresh flowers are flown into the anticipated cargo airport (as part of Dallas NAFTA Trade Corridor), and ride a DART cargo car for distribution at the Farmers Market.

More than any tax incentive to help clean up an unhealthful historic building, investing public money to expand the Farmers Market into a much more dynamic year-round "retail/living center" will generate exponential returns to city/county coffers - and Dallas area residents get another unique shopping venue.

I would have to add, that the Trinity Rail Express MUST operate a similar route between the agile port and downtown Fort Worth.

Thats a really neat idea. I don't know how how willing taxpayers would be to subsidizing frieght movement but your plan def. has some positives.

[tamtagon]

Thats a really neat idea. I don't know how how willing taxpayers would be to subsidizing frieght movement but your plan def. has some positives.

DART cargo "transportation infrastructure subsidies" would not be necessary. Farmers Market vendors would pay fair market rates to cover the operational and maintainance cost of leasing DART's cargo service. DART cargo cars will be less expensive than passenger cars, being basically a platform to carry cargo containers from the agile port into the central city marketplace. The Agile Port Corporation may even be the organization which purchases the LRT cargo cars and leases use of DART cargo service or these costs may be applied to the Farmers Market, but DART member community residents will only be responsible for the cost of passenger service. The system access revenue from cargo service leases will at least put DART in an break even overhead situation. I guess essentially, a private investor provides the money to buy the cargo service from DART as well as the DART-compatible cargo vehicles, eventually to make a profit just like any other cargo transportation provider.

I think mdunlap1 was the first on this forum to suggest privately developed LRT routes in the Metroplex, and combining privately run cargo service and public passenger service connections between CBD and the agile port would provide the most secure business venture.

DART builds the LRT access to the South Dallas County agile port just as it has built LRT access to any member community. Leasing out DART rail system for middle of the night local cargo movement reduces the cost on tax payers, allows limited 24 hour service, expedite DART expansion and brings a new layer of appeal to Metroplex retail - the Farmers Market could easily become major tourist attraction.

[X Factor]

Way too much red tape at the Farmers Market, I inquired about setting up there to sell some homemade jellys and we would have to get like two or three different licenses to even get a stall. The farmers aren't going to go through the hassle to sell their goods when they can go to their local town and set up on the corner of their highways. Unless the process is made easier and more friendly the Farmers Market is going to be filled with people selling goods that they bought wholesale.

[trolleygirl]

Thats a really neat idea. I don't know how how willing taxpayers would be to subsidizing frieght movement but your plan def. has some positives.

Neat but not original. The Interurban streetcars transported less that freight loads back in the '20s for farmers along the lines between the big cities. The'd take a barrel of pickles, some busels of coar, potatoes and carrots into market, sell it and bring back the money earned on the way back. MATA's "restaurant" car is an interurban that carried less than freight loads.

[tamtagon]

Neat but not original. The Interurban streetcars transported less that freight loads back in the '20s for farmers along the lines between the big cities.

What's keeping it from happening again?

[RobertB]

Neat but not original. The Interurban streetcars transported less that freight loads back in the '20s for farmers along the lines between the big cities.

What's keeping it from happening again?
If UPS and FedEx had been around in the '20s, the farmers would have used them instead of hauling their goods to the Interurban station. As for bringing back the concept, no business will willingly trade something that works for an 80-year-old concept, no matter how romantic. Even if there were a way to make it cheaper, business runs on stability. Any businessman will pay $10 or $100 or $1000 extra, if they know it'll work the same tomorrow as it did yesterday.

However, that same business inertia is part of the strength of rail-based transit. As was explained to me in another discussion, a rail (LRT or trolley) station is better than a bus stop because you know it will be there for the long term -- and that's something you can build a business on.

[tamtagon]

However, that same business inertia is part of the strength of rail-based transit. As was explained to me in another discussion, a rail (LRT or trolley) station is better than a bus stop because you know it will be there for the long term -- and that's something you can build a business on.

That's why I think DART cargo routes from the [planned] South Dallas Agile Port to the Farmers Market would be profitable. The concept of the Farmers Market should not be limited to produce and other perishibles harvested/prepared in North Texas; if it's harvested/prepared anywhere in the world, and comes to North Texas through the agile port, it is sold in the Farmers Market. Fruit, vegetables, flowers, meat, milk, cheese, "home-made" condiments, house and garden plants - it's all at the Farmers Market, and it's from all over the world. The venue becomes a unique environment in North Texas - one that can only exist centrally located to the greatest population, downtown. The Agile port will operate 24 hours a day, and so will the Farmers Market.

An expanded, internationally flavored Farmers Market with a hard link into the heart of the North Texas consumer product goods processing center would do several big things for downtown:
-the product availability creates a unique venue capturing the attention of 500,000 frequent visitors who live/work within a 15 minute radius;
-the product availability is effectively shopped by another 500,000 infrequent visitors living beyond a the 15 minute radius of convenience;
-a full specturm of the cultural variety found in the Dallas Area is focused in one location;
-the expanded scale and scope of the Farmers Market becomes the only possible environment which can endure the presence of the new homeless shelter. To buffer the rest of downtown from the unfortunate situation of the area's homeless population as well as provide an environment which does not expose the unfortunate homeless population to the relentless degradation of an uncaring public, a 24-hour operation with extremely high foot traffic from a very wide variety of cultural personalities is the only setting to allay interactions.
-the Farmers Market TOD will attract more affordable residential accommodations to the CBD.

[Insidetheloop]

Currently, the method of delivering fresh foods to area supermarkets is much more streamlined and efficent than anything seen at the Farmers Market. Any local grocery store chain will have fresher produce than what is available at the Farmers Market. Only in rare exceptions will you find a local farmer selling his produce in downtown....and even then they will be selling in an abandoned parking lot near the Farmers Market, not in the market itself. I have been buying tomatoes, okra, peppers, squash and watermelons from a farmer who lives down near Athens. He sells from the back of his pickup down near the farmers market on Thursday afternoons.

[rantanamo]

^That doesn't make the markey any less valuable to the city.

[Insidetheloop]

^That doesn't make the markey any less valuable to the city.

Sure it does. If farmers can't sell their produce and only middlemen sell there it really loses alot of appeal to many. You should go down there in the next week or two and see how many real honest to goodness farmers and growers are there. Maybe a handful, maybe less. What you will find are re-sellers of produce bought wholesale from grocery suppliers.

I'm all for the Farmer's Market, but there arent any farmers!

[texman]

My God, do you find something wrong in everything?

[freewaytincan]

My God, do you find something wrong in everything?

Apparently.

[tamtagon]

Sure it does. If farmers can't sell their produce and only middlemen sell there it really loses alot of appeal to many. You should go down there in the next week or two and see how many real honest to goodness farmers and growers are there. Maybe a handful, maybe less. What you will find are re-sellers of produce bought wholesale from grocery suppliers.

I'm all for the Farmer's Market, but there arent any farmers!
I guess it requires some checking, but my impression for years has been that most transactions happen before sunrise, and that what produce is sold during the day to individual shoppers is mostly just for appearances.

The Farmers Market, as a product, need redevelopment that's for sure. I like the idea of giving local owner operated farmers and ranchers either 1) discounted stall rental or 2) sales tax abaitments. Mostly, though, I think the Farmers Market should have direct rail link to the Agile Port to become a more of a World Market showplace for all the consumer product goods being processed in South Dallas County.

[rantanamo]

Sure it does. If farmers can't sell their produce and only middlemen sell there it really loses alot of appeal to many. You should go down there in the next week or two and see how many real honest to goodness farmers and growers are there. Maybe a handful, maybe less. What you will find are re-sellers of produce bought wholesale from grocery suppliers.

I'm all for the Farmer's Market, but there arent any farmers!

I lived and worked next to it for 5 years. My father still lives in that area and is a frequent shopper as am I now that I'm back. I knew how it worked thanks to the produce company next door. Never stopped myself or any other person from going there. The crowds there are pretty good. Definitely busier than it was when I was a kid. Why?There is a certain appeal. Especially when you can talk the vendors down on their price, and when you learn the best times to get super cheap deals or even when the good stuff comes in. Of course you can buy from the supermarket, but what fun is that!!!
I take it you don't go to the State Fair. You can get most of that food at the supermarket as well.

[KBilly]

Well, if you can read, then shop at a 'farmer' sign and not a 'producer' sign. They are certainly there. And the shrimp from the "boat" just inside the door of the furniture market is simply the best around and what a price too!

The east Texas tomatoes from said farmers are awesome right now also!

[Insidetheloop]

Well, if you can read, then shop at a 'farmer' sign and not a 'producer' sign. They are certainly there. And the shrimp from the "boat" just inside the door of the furniture market is simply the best around and what a price too!

The east Texas tomatoes from said farmers are awesome right now also!



There are too few farmers at the Farmer's Market. That's the problem.

Also.....what's the deal with leaving all their inventory out overnight? I drove by there around 9:00ish last night and all the food was sitting outside but everyone had gone home. Is it safe to leave all that food sitting out in the heat overnight?

[Insidetheloop]

I guess it requires some checking, but my impression for years has been that most transactions happen before sunrise, and that what produce is sold during the day to individual shoppers is mostly just for appearances.

The Farmers Market, as a product, need redevelopment that's for sure. I like the idea of giving local owner operated farmers and ranchers either 1) discounted stall rental or 2) sales tax abaitments. Mostly, though, I think the Farmers Market should have direct rail link to the Agile Port to become a more of a World Market showplace for all the consumer product goods being processed in South Dallas County.

But a grocery store chain would never adapt to supply chain like that. There distribution netork is based on semi-tractor trailers and warehousing.