Mockingbird Station

[smudoode]

I really like the first one, it looks like it's made of glass that would be easier to maintain than the other ones. I hope that the bridge spanning 75 from SMU will be complimentary to whatever ends up being chosen here. The flowery one is also cool, but like the urban teenage hipster, that style is almost out of date.

[msutton]

How about a nice stone structure with vines spilling over the sides?

[tamtagon]

^I dont dislike those, but I would prefer a more traditional bridge that matches buildings on the SMU campus.

[Forrest Gump]

Proposed route thru Mockingbird Station

http://lakewood-now.net/resources/katy-trail-2007-12.jpg

[mrowl]

How about a nice stone structure with vines spilling over the sides?

as long as TXDOT doesn't design the sprinkler system.

[Uptown72]

A DART line, DART buses and dense urban development - a recipe to make sure you wear your reflective clothing when you jog thru this patch of the Katy Trail!

[texcolo2]

How are they going to carry the trail over Central? Or are they just going to make people cross at McCommas???

[sterling]

Yep all things considered lets go with plain and just get the thing finished... every bridge doesn't need to be a gateway.

Good plan because that is no doubt what will happen. These renderings will be slashed and hashed until we get the usual cylindrical concrete post holding up the generic concrete spandrel. It does seem ironic that in a city full of identical brutalist Texas Highway inspirations, we can call any of these designs ugly.

[freewaytincan]

Good plan because that is no doubt what will happen. These renderings will be slashed and hashed until we get the usual cylindrical concrete post holding up the generic concrete spandrel. It does seem ironic that in a city full of identical brutalist Texas Highway inspirations, we can call any of these designs ugly.

Except that this looks like 1979 came for a visit and wasn't happy.

http://lakewood-now.net/visual/image_file/5543/BridgeBoxcar.jpg?1198213474

[Jack Flack]

How are they going to carry the trail over Central? Or are they just going to make people cross at McCommas???

The trail will cross on McCommas, but not on the street itself. When the McCommas bridge was rebuilt with Central one side was built extra wide to accommodate the trail.

[BigD5349]

UA Cine is almost gone. If you were to throw a rock against the backside, the rest of the building would probably fall over.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9051/uacineph5.jpg

[SDORN]

They are taking there time wrecking this thing. There is fortune in scrap metal in that building. They seem in no hurry, since they are still awaiting the decision on the Library. being working on the demo for months on end.

[GuerillaBlack]

http://lakewood-now.net/view/article/1851?page=1

http://lakewood-now.net/visual/image_file/5542/BridgeSnake.jpg?1198213474

http://lakewood-now.net/visual/image_file/5543/BridgeBoxcar.jpg?1198213474

http://lakewood-now.net/visual/image_file/5544/BridgeHabiTrail.jpg?1198213475
The second is the best. Maybe a different paint job though.

[Forrest Gump]

Some photos and displays from the Mockingbird Bridge meeting in December from Angelahunt.com

http://www.angelahunt.com/photos/list.photos.asp?folder=2007/12_December/2007.12.18_-_Mockingbird_Pedestrian_Bridge_Meeting

[SDORN]

I still think, the designs are ugly!!!! Back to the drawing board. By the way they got the UA cine Finally demolished.

Took a long time. too long.

[AeroD]

By the way they got the UA cine Finally demolished.

Took a long time. too long.

That is cos' they were crying as they did it.

[chiboi]

I think option 3 looks best for that area

[hamiltonpl]

The first one looks like a covered wagon. The second one looks like Superman's hideout with all the crystals, and the third one looks like someone who watches Futurama.

Back to the drawing board!

[AeroD]

I wonder if the city had thought about doing something similar to that which was done at the DART LRT Arapaho Station. They have a sidewalk underpass there.

[smudoode]

What's the update on the Mockingbird Plaza development? I remember them trying to garner support/funds a few months back. Anyone?

[mexila]

Just a short photo essay of images taken from the web.
I think these are very successful examples of pedestrian bridges.

[dfwcre8tive]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/columnists/sbrown/stories/011108dnbusrecol.25b79c2.html

Mockingbird rentals

Speaking of apartments, developers are moving ahead to build luxury rental units on top of the parking lot at DART's Mockingbird light rail station.

Inland American Communities – the Georgia-based apartment developer that's working on deals all over Dallas – is continuing negotiations with DART to lease the air rights over the parking lots to build a high-end rental complex.

Inland American's predecessor, FirstWorthing Corp., won the nod from DART to build on the surface parking lots.

Since the two companies combined late last year, Inland has continued work on the deal.

As part of the agreement, the developer will have to construct garage parking to accommodate DART riders.

[DallasMan]

^Whoa! This is the first I've heard of this! It would be great if this happens...added density and more built-in Dart users and customers for Mockingbird Station.

[smudoode]

Are there any renderings?

[dfwcre8tive]

Post #304 shows a site plan with the Katy Trail Extension. Is this "Mockingbird Plaza"?

[amarkscpa]

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/shareID573529/fileID127255103/us75_central_walnut_hill_looking_south_2_1959.jpg

Looking South from Walnut Hill @ Central - That's the future Mockingbird Station in the upper part of this photo...

[vman]

I went to the Angelika over the weekend and noticed the new addition is pretty much done. The only new store there right now is a sunglasses shop. Another thing...have the sidewalks in some areas of the development been widened?? I noticed the sidewalks below the Angelika and in front of Urban Outfitters have been painted a beige color, but it seemed to me they were much wider than I remember.

[grantboston]

I went to the Angelika over the weekend and noticed the new addition is pretty much done. The only new store there right now is a sunglasses shop. Another thing...have the sidewalks in some areas of the development been widened?? I noticed the sidewalks below the Angelika and in front of Urban Outfitters have been painted a beige color, but it seemed to me they were much wider than I remember.

I think you're right. I've noticed that sharp turn there is a bit more perilous now, especially when there is traffic going in both directions. I suppose it's the price to pay for the wider (and much improved) sidewalks.

And when looking at the new addition in person, I'm struck by how distant it seems. Granted, it's just across the street from the rest of the project and adjacent to the Angelika complex, but it's like a whole different world over there. Maybe once there are more stores/restaurants (and foot traffic) it won't be so disappointing.

[dfwcre8tive]

Demolition has started at the old Shamburger Building Center.

From the City Zoning file (http://www.dallascityhall.com/meetings/plan_commission/Z078-168.pdf):

-- The applicant proposes to redevelop the site with ground floor retail and
residential uses with specific considerations given to its proximity to public transit.

Land Use Compatibility:

The ±3.65-acre request site is zoned an MU-3 Mixed Use District and is currently
developed with an office building and warehouse uses associated with the former
Shamburger Lumber facility. The proposed residential and retail project is considered
compatible with the adjacent uses which include civic, office, and retail and personal
services.

The request site is within an area envisioned for mixed use development at this location
given its proximity to public transit. The applicant has indicated that the proposed
project will be targeted to SMU students; therefore utilizing the university’s existing and
future expanded bus service. The SMU bus system currently circulates from
Mockingbird Station through its west campus with future plans to route the bus through
the east campus, which abuts the request site. Furthermore, the development proposed
by this application is intended to compliment other SMU and Prescott projects in the
immediate vicinity.

The applicant is proposing to develop a maximum of 450 dwelling units and
approximately 20,000 square feet of retail and restaurant uses at a height and intensity
less than that permitted by the underlying MU-3 District.

[RobertB]

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/shareID573529/fileID127255103/us75_central_walnut_hill_looking_south_2_1959.jpg

Looking South from Walnut Hill @ Central - That's the future Mockingbird Station in the upper part of this photo...

I just took a good look at this pic, and saw that the pedestrian tunnel just south of Walnut Hill is there in this picture. It looks like there's a golf course that spans both sides of the freeway, and the tunnel provides access from one side to the other. That tunnel is still there, right? I thought I remembered them preserving it when Central was rebuilt.

Love those two-way frontage roads, FTW! With white dashed lane divicers, of course -- yellow wasn't used to indicate two-way roads until the '70s.

[KBilly]

Here's all you need to know about the former Glen Lakes Country Club (http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbbs_config.pl?noframes;read=47165), inc. the tunnel, Lee Travino's father being the starter, etc. Yup. it's where Glen Lakes apts and the strip mall/high dollar places are now on the west side of 75.

Here's the link to this aerial photo from 1959. (http://www.texasfreeway.com/dallas/historic/photos/images/us75_walnut_hill_looking_se_feb-1959.jpg)

[incrediculous]

Demolition has started at the old Shamburger Building Center.

From the City Zoning file (http://www.dallascityhall.com/meetings/plan_commission/Z078-168.pdf):

-- The applicant proposes to redevelop the site with ground floor retail and
residential uses with specific considerations given to its proximity to public transit.

Land Use Compatibility:

The ±3.65-acre request site is zoned an MU-3 Mixed Use District and is currently
developed with an office building and warehouse uses associated with the former
Shamburger Lumber facility. The proposed residential and retail project is considered
compatible with the adjacent uses which include civic, office, and retail and personal
services.

The request site is within an area envisioned for mixed use development at this location
given its proximity to public transit. The applicant has indicated that the proposed
project will be targeted to SMU students; therefore utilizing the university’s existing and
future expanded bus service. The SMU bus system currently circulates from
Mockingbird Station through its west campus with future plans to route the bus through
the east campus, which abuts the request site. Furthermore, the development proposed
by this application is intended to compliment other SMU and Prescott projects in the
immediate vicinity.

The applicant is proposing to develop a maximum of 450 dwelling units and
approximately 20,000 square feet of retail and restaurant uses at a height and intensity
less than that permitted by the underlying MU-3 District.

Did you notice they lowered the FAR to 3.0 from 4.0? Why would Prescott agree to that zoning change, and more importantly, why the city would do such a thing in the first place?

Also, it looks like Prescott asked for a 30% reduction in parking requirement, but only a 22% was approved by the city planner. That's still more than one car per apartment. Is this really what we call TOD? They should give Prescott what they want. They're part of the market, and know what they're doing. They wouldn't spend millions of dollars on a building without these additional parking spots, if the market needed them.

[wynne]

you just nailed the problem with our city being a transit oriented or even pedestrian urban area. Parking requirements imposed by P&Z. if you're never going to force people out of their cars, it's not going to happen.

[dfwcre8tive]

New apartment, retail complex going up on Greenville
01:32 PM CDT on Monday, July 28, 2008
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
stevebrown@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/072908dnbusgreenville.f71b9ae.html

Wrecking crews are clearing away the last of the old Shamburger Building Center on Greenville Avenue to make way for a new apartment and retail complex.

Prescott Realty Group bought the lumberyard at Greenville and Yale Boulevard in 2005.

Since then the developer has been working on plans for redeveloping several sites in that area.

Prescott Realty hopes to complete the demolition and sitework “in 30 days or so and close on all financing at same time” for the new development, said CEO Jud Pankey.

The project on the Shamburger site will contain as many as 450 apartments plus about 20,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space, according to filings with the City of Dallas.

And Prescott Realty has more property to redevelop for mixed-uses further west on Yale and adjacent to its Radisson Hotel and office tower fronting on North Central Expressway.

The developer’s other current Dallas projects include the Lake Highlands Town Center development on Skillman Avenue and the condominium tower being built adjacent to the historic Stoneleigh Hotel.

[Hannibal Lecter]

you just nailed the problem with our city being a transit oriented or even pedestrian urban area. Parking requirements imposed by P&Z. if you're never going to force people out of their cars, it's not going to happen.A wonderful, if semi-literate, synopsis of the fallacy of modern urban planning, at least as promulgated by many on this forum. To achieve your objectives you have to "force" people out of their cars. Why? Because people don't want to leave their cars. People like their cars. People love their cars. People love the freedom that there cars provide, a freedom that no mass transit system will ever be able to provide.

There will always be a few folks on the fringe who are quite happy to stand around in the rain waiting for the train, but the vast majority of Americans love the freedom and lifestyle that automobiles provide. As long as you're trying to "force" an alternative on them you are doomed to failure.

[incrediculous]

A wonderful, if semi-literate, synopsis of the fallacy of modern urban planning, at least as promulgated by many on this forum. To achieve your objectives you have to "force" people out of their cars. ... As long as you're trying to "force" an alternative on them you are doomed to failure.

Who is forcing who here, Hannibal? An experienced developer wants to build with 1 parking spot per apartment, and they gauge that there's enough demand for urban living with limited parking to pull it off. It's the city forcing them to build with 1.2 parking spots per apartment.

For a guy who often appeals to the value of market forces, you sure don't believe in market forces.

[Hannibal Lecter]

^ And at what point did I agree with (or even mention) the city's position in my message? If you had asked, instead of jumping to conclusions, I would have said that I support the developer.

Take off that secret decoder ring you got in your Fruit Loops this morning -- you're imagining messages that just aren't there.

[incrediculous]

^ And at what point did I agree with (or even mention) the city's position in my message? If you had asked, instead of jumping to conclusions, I would have said that I support the developer.

Take off that secret decoder ring you got in your Fruit Loops this morning -- you're imagining messages that just aren't there.

Ah. Sorry, Hannibal. Didn't mean to jump on ya. The point-counterpoint shit messed with my feeble, caffeine addled mind. I should probably get used to us agreeing more often these days, considering my growing anarchistic tendencies.

[Lakewooder]

From Sunday's DMN:

Point of Contact: James Howard Kunstler

12:00 AM CDT on Sunday, July 27, 2008

Our Q&A with James Howard Kunstler, author of The Long Emergency and World Made By Hand.


When you published The Long Emergency three years ago, oil was trading at about $50 a barrel, and naysayers wrote off your predictions of peak oil doom as cranky hysteria. What about now?

I would answer the naysayers by saying, "How do you like The Long Emergency so far – gasoline at $4.25. An onion at $1.50. ..." This follows the classic formulation as described by Kierkegaard. He said new and disturbing ideas are greeted first with ridicule, then with violent opposition, and are finally accepted as self-evident. The more notable element, however, has been the persistent cluelessness of the mainstream media. For the most part, they still are not connecting the dots.


What kind of place will the Dallas area be to live in the Long Emergency?

As you probably know from reading TLE, I think the Sun Belt generally is in for tough times. We're going to rediscover why the territory between Charleston and the Pecos was an agricultural backwater before 1945, with few cities of any size. You can't overestimate the importance of cheap air conditioning – and the prospect for that is looking pretty grim in years ahead.

My college lecture audiences in the South have been strikingly hostile. My message that they can no longer expect to depend on an economy based on cars and suburban development must be a harsh one for them – but, of course, I believe it is the true case.

Again in general, I would say that the Sun Belt will suffer in direct proportion to the degree that it prospered during the heyday of cheap oil – which was the heyday of suburbanization there. It's over. Y'all are gonna have to find something else to do – and I think it will be oriented around agriculture.

JOIN THE CLUB

Do you agree with Mr. Kunstler's dark scenario for North Texas? Or do you think he sells short our ability to adapt? Starting next Sunday, we'll discuss these questions and more as we launch the second annual Points Summer Book Club. Read Mr. Kunstler's The Long Emergency and join the conversation.

[LakeRidge]

A wonderful, if semi-literate, synopsis of the fallacy of modern urban planning, at least as promulgated by many on this forum. To achieve your objectives you have to "force" people out of their cars. Why? Because people don't want to leave their cars. People like their cars. People love their cars. People love the freedom that there cars provide, a freedom that no mass transit system will ever be able to provide.

There will always be a few folks on the fringe who are quite happy to stand around in the rain waiting for the train, but the vast majority of Americans love the freedom and lifestyle that automobiles provide. As long as you're trying to "force" an alternative on them you are doomed to failure.

Your posts seems to suggest that the parking space requirements set forth by the city government are wanted by 'all but a few folks on the fringe' who want to stand in the rain all the time. In your post you state that 'forcing an alternative on consumers is doomed to fail'.

In this case, I would argue that consumers are not forced to do anything. If you don't agree with the business model (not enough spaces for each apartment) don't rent an apartment there. An alternative is not being forced on anyone, however, an alternative for developers (less parking and more units) is being denied by the city government.

If people are not happy with the lack of parking they won't rent an apartment and the landlord will have to lower rents. Much better to let the market forces control this sort of thing rather than trying to control it through legislation.

[Hannibal Lecter]

^ My post was not referring to the parking requirements on that site. I was addressing the previous poster's assertion that people were going to have to be forced (his term) out of their cars so that his beloved pedestrian orientated developments could succeed.

I find it a bit disingenuous that you placed 'forcing an alternative on consumers is doomed to fail' in quotes, implying that I stated that. While I agree with the statement, I think mis-quoting me is ethically questionable.

>>> In this case, I would argue that consumers are not forced to do anything. If you don't agree with the business model (not enough spaces for each apartment) don't rent an apartment there. An alternative is not being forced on anyone, however, an alternative for developers (less parking and more units) is being denied by the city government. <<<

There's no need to argue that point -- I'm in 100% agreement. I don't see where I said anything to the contrary.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Ah. Sorry, Hannibal. Didn't mean to jump on ya. The point-counterpoint shit messed with my feeble, caffeine addled mind. I should probably get used to us agreeing more often these days, considering my growing anarchistic tendencies.Caffeine addled? heck, if it weren't for Dr Pepper I'd be a basket case! :-)

[FoUTASportscaster]

Because people don't want to leave their cars. People like their cars. People love their cars. People love the freedom that there cars provide, a freedom that no mass transit system will ever be able to provide.

I wish there was a puking smiley, basically what this guy in a couple of hours, :drink: , if he doesn't stop drinking.

People don't love their cars. 80% of the built environment was constructed since WWII, and is auto centric, meaning convenient for the car and not convenient for any other mode of transport. We "love" our cars just like kids love getting vacines.

Heck, almost half the region lives in a place that offers no measurable transit service of any kind, giving them no alternative to the car.

[Matt777]

This kind of requirement needs to be seriously looked at by city planners, with the economy changing as fast as it has. Developers know their target audience and will put in as much parking as is needed, probably still a bit extra. They aren't going to risk the success of the whole development on too few parking spaces, instead, I think developers will look closer during planning and plan the right amount, not surplus as we see in most suburban style development. There is no room in this economy for surplus parking space when they can fit more development in, let developments be efficient.

As for "forcing people out of their cars," this is not that. There are plenty of suburbs in the area they can flee to. Why force urban developers to cowtow to this lifestyle and pave asphalt over land where they can build more living and leisure space, increase profits and improve quality of life for city dwellers? People have just as much right to choose an urban lifestyle as those who choose a suburban lifestyle, and in urban (or urbanizing) areas, developers and citizens should have the right to "force people out of their cars," or discourage it. It harms their lifestyle, pollutes, creates traffic that gets in the way of pedestrians, and whether you like to admit it or not, drives up prices on everything due to increased fuel prices from overconsumption.

The people who are going to inhabit an area like Mockingbird Station would probably prefer more dining, services and retail close by, as well as more citizens to sustain these services. More required parking space and lower FAR inhibit that.

The only opposition I can see is people who want a more suburban, car-oriented lifestyle, but they probably aren't looking into living in Dallas proper. There are plenty of choices for them in the suburbs, and no regulations barring the creation of what they would consider a suitable development in those areas.


As for the sunbelt facing issues in adapting, that is very true. But we can all see Dallas is good at adapting, so much has changed in a short time compared to the development of east coast regions. Yes there are problems with transit development (DART shortfalls), arguments about zoning issues, and other things but look how much has changed in just a decade! Things are moving much faster in these times. Suburbanization occurred over 50 years, but with the pace of things in todays world, I could see it completely reversed in a fraction of that time. And Dallas will adapt.

[Mballar]

Mockingbird Station, thus far, has stood the test of time. While some retailers have come and gone, it has remained a pretty vibrant place. i wonder what its longevity should be attributed to. . .DART station? . . .right mix of retail? . . .right mix of office tenants? . . . prominent location near major auto-centric arteries (i.e. Central Expressway, Mockingbird, Greenville). Whatever the case, future TOD's could stand to learn from the successes and failures of Mockingbird Station.

[SDORN]

Okay guys wow!!! let redirect this some I went by on my way to work and learned Booby Lindamood sr was wrecking the shamburger site. Steve Brown has failed to also mention the old law firm will be part of that demo It is on the ground completely when I took my photos. the law firm is right at the intersection of Worcola and Yale The shamburger site was vacant for I think 4 to five years If I am right I think that whole section was built around the 1950s 1960s. wow yale has seen development, First it was Jacks Pub then UA cine, then cokers, next Shamburgers, then the law firm> i am also being told the Across the street bar, the vet building, Jerry starks building the asian food place and another office building could all fall soon to demolishon. I am watching. I have pretty documented the buildings along Yale.

Now for the demo shots

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3930/shamburgerlindamoodeq5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3930/shamburgerlindamoodeq5.d452e78e93.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=112&i=shamburgerlindamoodeq5.jpg)

[SDORN]

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/771/metalonexd7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/771/metalonexd7.e5aad55dff.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=182&i=metalonexd7.jpg)

[vman]

Mockingbird Station, thus far, has stood the test of time. While some retailers have come and gone, it has remained a pretty vibrant place. i wonder what its longevity should be attributed to. . .DART station? . . .right mix of retail? . . .right mix of office tenants? . . . prominent location near major auto-centric arteries (i.e. Central Expressway, Mockingbird, Greenville). Whatever the case, future TOD's could stand to learn from the successes and failures of Mockingbird Station.
I love Mockingbird Station, and although it's a very vibrant development some of the vacancies have always puzzled me. Like the space right next to Angelika that has never been occupied and just the long periods vacated spots, like that old steakhouse and the asian place across from Angelia, have sat empty. They've both been empty for almost a couple of years now. I would think that they would have been filled quickly. What gives?

[grantboston]

I love Mockingbird Station, and although it's a very vibrant development some of the vacancies have always puzzled me. Like the space right next to Angelika that has never been occupied and just the long periods vacated spots, like that old steakhouse and the asian place across from Angelia, have sat empty. They've both been empty for almost a couple of years now. I would think that they would have been filled quickly. What gives?

I've wondered the exact same thing. It has to be the rents; I can't think of any other explanation. I wonder if the eventual construction of the Bush library might help with filling in Mockingbird Station to full capacity?

If I had the inclination, I would open one of those natural frozen yogurt places in Mockingbird in a heart beat. Gelato be damned, the place would rake in money hand over fist with the commuters and the SMU crowd.

[tamtagon]

James Howard Kunstler, author of The Long Emergency and World Made By Hand.
...
As you probably know from reading TLE, I think the Sun Belt generally is in for tough times. We're going to rediscover why the territory between Charleston and the Pecos was an agricultural backwater before 1945, with few cities of any size. You can't overestimate the importance of cheap air conditioning – and the prospect for that is looking pretty grim in years ahead.

My college lecture audiences in the South have been strikingly hostile. My message that they can no longer expect to depend on an economy based on cars and suburban development must be a harsh one for them – but, of course, I believe it is the true case.

Again in general, I would say that the Sun Belt will suffer in direct proportion to the degree that it prospered during the heyday of cheap oil – which was the heyday of suburbanization there. It's over.

Poppycock.


Also, it looks like Prescott asked for a 30% reduction in parking requirement, but only a 22% was approved by the city planner. That's still more than one car per apartment. Is this really what we call TOD? They should give Prescott what they want.

Since these Prescott apartments going on the old Shamburger Building Center site are intended for college students, I dont really understand why the city planner would not let it go with fewer parking spaces. Prescott plans to build more college student oriented stuff in the immediate area, and should not be constrained by incongruous zoning laws.