DTD | Arts District: Hall Arts Tower (Lone Star site) (~50 ST.)

[dallasbrink]

How about this for an incentive to Hall that is not just a simple cash give away...

The Hall Site in the Arts District has a nice size piece of land on the East side of the site with no building on it.... What if the city offered to place a large public sculpture on the site... something interactive and that would be an attraction in itself. Like the following in Chicago.
http://www.millenniumpark.org/artandarchitecture/cloud_gate.html
http://www.millenniumpark.org/artandarchitecture/crown_fountain.html

The nice thing about this is it would benefit Hall but it would also benefit everyone in the arts district and would provide another site to send tourist to.

Their are plenty of places in downtown we could put this and even better places in the Arts District.... So perhaps we identify development sites along Ross near the Arts District and offer it up to the first developer to start construction on a site that could support the installation in the identified development area. Nothing like a little competition to get things going.

This is a very good alternative. Call me one guy who favors the old Dallas Icon, but how about a Pegasus sculpture made out of a red tinted steel. Just a thought. It could even be a fountain. If not that then something that is so abstract i have no idea what it is.

[jsoto3]

Um, they're already doing this. The Wyly Theater (http://www.dallasperformingarts.org/building-wylytheatre.html) is being built on the lot directly east of Hall's site. I think it classifies as an interactive scultpure.

http://www.dallasperformingarts.org/images/WylyTheatre2.jpg

[dallasbrink]

Um, they're already doing this. The Wyly Theater (http://www.dallasperformingarts.org/building-wylytheatre.html) is being built on the lot directly east of Hall's site. I think it classifies as an interactive scultpure.

http://www.dallasperformingarts.org/images/WylyTheatre2.jpg

It does, but there still needs to be something in the spot of that garage.

[Kelley USA]

Hey World, come on down and look at our box!!! It's kick arse!!!

[Geaux Tigers]

Resistance is futile.

[mikedsjr]

Walmart should see if they can get naming rights. The big box store presents the big box theatre.

[DFW-LAX]

Um, they're already doing this. The Wyly Theater (http://www.dallasperformingarts.org/building-wylytheatre.html) is being built on the lot directly east of Hall's site. I think it classifies as an interactive scultpure.

http://www.dallasperformingarts.org/images/WylyTheatre2.jpg

I read somewhere that this is secretly being built as the world's first "Transformer Building." Just wait and see. When the Arts District becomes too crowded in 2045, the building's wings will sprout from the sides (a la "Chicken Run") and Wyly will fly north to Frisco. They'll probably be able to charge patrons $250 each for the ride, which will include a free ride back on a DART bus.

[ApathyFern]

Truly more than meets the eye.

[xen0blue]

any update on this project?

[SDORN]

Xen I will see about pix soon my friend

[jsoto3]

any update on this project?
If you read above, the project appears to be dead for now.

Xen I will see about pix soon my friend
There's nothing to take pics of that hasn't already been there for years.

[dfwcre8tive]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/120508dnbusunfinished.3b78496.html

...

Still sitting idle

And in 1985, a Chicago developer unveiled plans for two skyscrapers to be built on Flora Street in downtown Dallas' Arts District.

But after completing the underground parking garage and foundation for the first 52-story Lone Star Plaza tower, work stopped.

More than 20 years later, the unfinished foundations for the office high-rise and retail stand across the street from the Meyerson Symphony Center.

Dallas developer and investor Craig Hall paid $10.5 million for the property and two adjoining tracts in 1995.

But all of the sites are still vacant.

"We bought the property and expected that within a few years we would be building on the site," Mr. Hall said.

Delays caused by the depressed downtown office market, construction in the Arts District and a disagreement with the city over leases in the garage have kept the foundations empty, he said.

"All of that said, we have not given up," Mr. Hall said.

[xen0blue]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/120508dnbusunfinished.3b78496.html

...

Article: Still sitting idle

And in 1985, a Chicago developer unveiled plans for two skyscrapers to be built on Flora Street in downtown Dallas' Arts District.

But after completing the underground parking garage and foundation for the first 52-story Lone Star Plaza tower, work stopped.

More than 20 years later, the unfinished foundations for the office high-rise and retail stand across the street from the Meyerson Symphony Center.

Dallas developer and investor Craig Hall paid $10.5 million for the property and two adjoining tracts in 1995.

But all of the sites are still vacant.

"We bought the property and expected that within a few years we would be building on the site," Mr. Hall said.

Delays caused by the depressed downtown office market, construction in the Arts District and a disagreement with the city over leases in the garage have kept the foundations empty, he said.

"All of that said, we have not given up," Mr. Hall said.

Liar.

[mdg109]

they should at least repaint it.

[Double Wide]

Ill paint it, Paint it something so offensive to the developer (over and over, no matter how many times he covers it up) until he does something with the site. And I know about 20 taggers who would do it with me.

[cowboyeagle05]

I am just still surprised that the Arts District Friends group has not complained about the maintenance and overall appearance of the property in relation to the overall district. I mean its the same as having the Dallas Grand Hotel decaying in the middle of the Arts District. Even though it has functional parking does not mean he gets a free not my problem card.

[xen0blue]

I am just still surprised that the Arts District Friends group has not complained about the maintenance and overall appearance of the property in relation to the overall district. I mean its the same as having the Dallas Grand Hotel decaying in the middle of the Arts District. Even though it has functional parking does not mean he gets a free not my problem card.

Probably it's because the pretentious artsy pseudo-intellectual types that frequent the museums around there mistake it for a giant post-constructionist sculpture

[cowboyeagle05]

Probably it's because the pretentious artsy pseudo-intellectual types that frequent the museums around there mistake it for a giant post-constructionist sculpture

Well if its not bothering them then I would suggest there is not a problem

[downtownguy25]

We have no rights to complain things like this happen, hell it just happened in uptown, buildings get started and do not always get finished, thats the way the world works. Unless you want to put your money where your mouth is. I am sure Hall would sell the land and you can build something, until then please stop telling others what to do with their money.

[gshelton91]

I bet he would not sell that building and land for anything less then a ton of money... I think we can all agree the site has tons of potential Hall can see that... but i bet it is not taxed anywhere near market value and it probably currently generates enough money to service it's debt and pay taxes... so why sell it till he can get a building built on it to capture the full worth of it.

[chiboi]

As a citizen of the city of Dallas we do have the right to complain and to hold people accountable to what is generally acceptable. I can assure you that if you lived on Beverly Drive in Highland Park and started a mansion and just walked away and left it with just a frame, something would be done about it. If he doesn't want to fix it, he should sell it. If he doesn't want to sell it at the price it is appraised at, then he should be taxed at the price he is asking. It's not like this has been there for a couple of months. It's just like the owners of the Grand - the city should have the power to do something about these eyesores. Does anyone know anything about code enforcement? How can the Hall site meet city code or the Grand for that matter. Or what about the building boarded up that was to be Bryan Street Promenade. Hope all of the over zealous preservationists are happy - congratulations you've got a slum!!!

[TNDLC]

http://www.dallascityhall.com/council_briefings/agendas/agendas_1208/Final_Addendum_12102008.pdf

This is a 75MB file, sorry, blame the city.

Item 17 & 18 of the Addendum pertain to this site. Hall is requesting TIF funding. The council shelved this until January. Thought people might want to know.

There is a very low resolution image of the development in that file if someone wants to post it.

[grantboston]

The development is listed as an "office tower" in the city documents. The elevation also lists a "condo tower beyond." From what I can tell it's the slimmer tower in the background. Here are a couple of screen grabs from the PDF.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4827/picture1pv7.th.png (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1pv7.png)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9976/picture2ot9.th.png (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture2ot9.png)

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1194/picture4xf0.th.png (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture4xf0.png)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/757/picture3lx9.th.png (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3lx9.png)


Other tidbits:

*Office tower height listed as 22 stories
*Condo tower height appears to be 32 stories, but I think it may just be a placeholder building.
*Ground floor restaurant space listed in office tower plans.
*Private dining club also listed in plans for office tower.
*Approx 430,000 sq. ft. of gross office space with another 30,000 of retail
*Hall investment: $120,000,000
*City TIF Funds: $9,000,000
*Hall project is back of the line for TIF funding:

"Section 5. That the TIF Subsidy to be provided to Hall Lone Star Associates, L.P. will
be based on the Downtown Connection TIF District's approved reimbursement method
once all contingencies are met and if and when increment becomes available, after
annual Downtown Connection TIF District bond and reserve obligations are met, after
the Tower Petroleum/1900 Pacific, and after all affordable housing, park and Uptown
project improvement obligations have been met."

*"Repairs and maintenance of the existing garage must be completed by 12/31/2009
*Building permits must be obtained by 12/31/2012, with certificate of occupancy by 12/31/2015
*Expect quarterly status reports to the city

[AeroD]

With Krugman saying we could possibly be entering a lost decade, the world ending in 2012...you get the drift...

[vman]

^^^
Photo is a little dark, but those towers kinda remind me of those two awful towers in DTFW. But I would still take those FW towers over what is there now. God I hope this gets built...soon!!

[NThomas]

I dunno, I think it looks great. Much better then the original proposal.

[xen0blue]

I don't have any faith in this proposal...infact I have 10x less faith in it than the stoneleigh, victory park and possibly even the sweeny tower combined. And museum tower.

[Double Wide]

I dont have faith in anything anymore. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I have no bird, I have no bush, developers have taken my bird and my bush.

[cowboyeagle05]

This in the most important part of this project maybe we will at least get a nicer looking garage even if we don't get a new office Condo Tower.



*"Repairs and maintenance of the existing garage must be completed by 12/31/2009
*Building permits must be obtained by 12/31/2012, with certificate of occupancy by 12/31/2015
*Expect quarterly status reports to the city

I am still a little surprised no high end hotel has even tried to build in or near the Arts District already. The Ritz is close but I would expect some luxury brand would want to attach itself to all that expensive Art, Museums, Sculpture, & "Worldly" Architecture. Not that Dallas is short in high end hotels but still a Dallas Arts District Hotel would be a easy sell when advertising to out of town high end travelers. I just would have thought a hotel would have been the first try not condos but then again I am not a developer.

"Come stay in the city that can show what Cowboys and the Stars are really like, stay at the Dallas Arts District blah blah"

[gshelton91]

As much as i hate to give someone money to do something on one of the most prime bits of land in the area.... i would say do this... come up with an amount of money that builds out the first few levels above ground -- particularly to include retail... then tell Craig that is what we care about if he wants to build an office tower or condos on top of that fine if not his loss.

[clcrash29]

So i'm a little confused if someone could clear this up. Where exaclty is his site or location that he owns? Is it by museum tower or the supposed site for this? or is it by like the wylie theatre or more outspread by the one arts plaza? Thanks for the help

[kenc]

You must be new to Dallas. This property is on Ross Ave just north of the Cathedral and in front of the Myserson. It has several ugly concrete pillars and looks like an abandoned construction site... which it is... and has looked like that for 20 years.

[Tnekster]

As much as i hate to give someone money to do something on one of the most prime bits of land in the area.... i would say do this... come up with an amount of money that builds out the first few levels above ground -- particularly to include retail... then tell Craig that is what we care about if he wants to build an office tower or condos on top of that fine if not his loss.

Come up with? So where is this money coming from and on whose authority? If the city is having trouble with Craig Hall now I would love to see how much trouble they are in after they start dictating to him how his property is going to be utilized and by the way if you don't like it we don't care. I don't like this concrete structure any more than anybody else but as it turns out Hall was right on target to back down on building his condo tower when he did. He saw the storm coming and made what appears to be a wise decision. I am sure he will pull the trigger on this project when he feels the timing is right.

[gshelton91]

Talking about the TIF money he is asking for to build his current plan for the lone star site...

[Tnekster]

Talking about the TIF money he is asking for to build his current plan for the lone star site...

Thanks, I didn't see any of that until now. Now it makes sense.

[AeroD]

Dallas Morning News

Hall seeks city financing to build towers on site of failed Arts District project

12:00 AM CST on Friday, December 19, 2008

By this time next year, visitors to downtown Dallas' Arts District will find one of the world's foremost collections of modern architecture on display.

The 11-story Wyly Theatre – the big "cube" just north of Ross Avenue – and the Winspear Opera House – the one clad in red panels – will put a new face on the quarter-century-old cultural district.

But one "landmark" stays the same.

It's hard to miss the concrete-and-steel eyesore across the street from the Meyerson Symphony Center. The foundations of a failed office complex have stood sentinel over Flora Street for more than two decades.

But a deal in the works could finally get construction rolling again.



http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/columnists/sbrown/stories/DN-recol_19bus.ART.State.Edition1.4ab46a0.html

[gchrisbailey]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/columnists/sbrown/stories/DN-recol_19bus.ART.State.Edition1.4ab46a0.html

It would be awesome if they got this thing built...

Along with the 1900 Pacific project, Museum Tower and the potential for Harwood and Victory Park to get some things started up again, it seems as if Dallas is gearing up to be a boomtown in the post-recession...

[Double Wide]

seems promising.

[Mballar]

From the article:

"We have been working with the city staff for several months on a very detailed plan that I truly believe is in the city's best interests as well as our own," Craig Hall said. "We remain excited about helping complete the largest arts district in the U.S."

But until agreements with the city can be finalized, "nothing more can happen," he said.

Hall tries to paint a picture as though the City is the problem. I wonder if that's the case. At any rate, the fact that the parties have been putting a plan together "for several months" sounds very encouraging. I've always suspected that this property would be developed once the major Arts District components came on line. Let's hope the City does what it can to see that happen. I, personally, am for the $9 million TIF.

[breavis]

Construction does not need to start until 2012 (complete in Dec. 2015) under this agreement. That's not exactly what I would describe as "soon." If it's going to take them 3 years to get their deal together it's not the City that's holding things up.

[sterling]

It bears mentioning that for several of the past few years lenders have been "giving money away" on projects far less high profile than this. Somebody should have told Craig to stop "making like an ostrich" and pull his head out of the sand. Unless of course this is just another cynical PR move on his part (likely IMO).

How like Craig to wait until the next cycle of bust to announce a "big doin's", and then put the financial responsibility squarely on other's shoulders. A few million may be a drop in the bucket, but I think there should be safeguards that Hall doesn't take it as a golden parachute and walk away leaving the block "as is". Come to think of it, just buying him off might be BETTER than waiting for him to get off his duff and DO something/anything. Go ahead, make his day.

[NThomas]

At this point, a 1 story retail building would be better in the meantime. He could set up something very simple and when 2012 or whatever rolls around, start on the towers.

[eirin]

They should promote it as Dallas' Stonehenge in the meantime. A testament to the ancient real estate boom that went bust. We all wonder what happened to that culture that died out.

They can even make a museum dedicated to Craig Hall.

[cowboyeagle05]

Remember a requirement of the project going forward is that Craig Hall make much needed repairs and improvements to the existing garage starting in 2009.

The question is will he actually attempt to clean the thing or just slap the 300th coat of paint on it and call it good. I am not holding my breath for anything until some construction crew starts work.

[NThomas]

Remember a requirement of the project going forward is that Craig Hall make much needed repairs and improvements to the existing garage starting in 2009.

The question is will he actually attempt to clean the thing or just slap the 300th coat of paint on it and call it good. I am not holding my breath for anything until some construction crew starts work.

I wouldn't stop breathing until a topping out or ribbon cutting ceremony for an official opening (see: thread (http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=4040))

[gshelton91]

If they approve the money... why not say ok well it is X Million but we take away 1 Million for each year past 2010 that nothing is built...

[dfwcre8tive]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2009/01/city_councils_not_in_a_hurry_t.php

...

The other sits at 2301 Ross Avenue, an Arts District parking garage Hall Lone Star Associates is, finally, proposing to turn into a $120 million mixed-use development pictured at right. It would include "approximately 430,000 square feet of gross office space and 30,000 square feet of gross ground floor retail space," says the council agenda. Hall Lone Star Associates wants $7 million in TIF money, plus another $2 million in incentives.

...

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/artstower.jpg

[tamtagon]

Sweet!

Hall has all kinds of money for stuff like this..., perfectly timing the announcement when there's too much office space, no one else has the wherewithal to confidently float a ~4 year timeline, and by the time it's done, it will be a really in-demand product. Just like Four Seasons announcing an eventual NorthPark Center operation, there are a few developers who do not need to be concerned with who/where/when money can be borrowed and are counting down the months before it's time to strike. When the country eventually comes out of recession, North Texas will be one of the first to get back to some boomtown building. Folks like Craig Hall are going to make billions. That development he's sitting on in Richardson is probably next.


Hall Lone Star Associates wants $7 million in TIF money, plus another $2 million in incentives.

I'd like this negotiation to deliver a new public museum/gallery space. Craig Hall invests in art like he invests in real estate, and I dont think it's out of bounds to expect Hall to include public viewing space as part of a TIF deal.

[freewaytincan]

That development he's sitting on in Richardson is probably next.

Which one is that?

[grantboston]

I'll believe it when I see it, unfortunately.

Two other points:

*At some point, the line for TIF funds has to be so long that developers in the various zones may not see it as a viable option to wait in line. This may not be a problem with this project, or it could be Hall realizing that if he gets in line NOW, at the bottom of the market, he can afford to wait as long as he wants (the agreement can probably be loosened because of "market conditions") but still be ahead of everyone else that wants to start developing and building after the economy comes back. Either way, he's near the front of the line for any soon-to-be-exhausted TIF.

*As I noted in the original post about this latest iteration a month or so ago, the second condo tower (which is conveniently sheathed in darkness) is entirely speculative and not the first priority. The office tower will come first if anything comes at all. That of course begs the question: "Is this the best use for this piece of real estate?"

Because I think the answer to that question is "not quite," I would support the stipulation that Hall add a cultural element to this project, a la the Crow Museum, or something.

In any event, since no one else is building anything at the moment, Hall has all the time in the world to wait. If he starts building soon, I would take that as a pretty good gauge of his faith in the Dallas commercial real estate market (or at least this sub market) and of the broader fortunes of the area's economy in general.