DTD | Arts District: Hall Arts Tower (Lone Star site) (~50 ST.)

[Tnekster]

Perot was able to get something done. One glace across the skyline would indicate that lots of developers are able to get something done.

[St-T]

^I wish Hall would sell!!!

[AeroD]

With the Museum Tower, Woodall Rogers Park and the Winspear and Wyly performing arts Center, either Hall or someone else in the near future will put that lot into good use.

It's only a matter of time.

[clipper]

Consider the facts. Last nite the City of Richardson gave him more than $1 million to help pay for roads in that new office park. At Dallas city hall, he asks for help with parking and gets a stick in the eye. Why would you do business with folks that don't want your projects and try and make it more difficult to get anything done?

[AeroD]

Consider the facts. Last nite the City of Richardson gave him more than $1 million to help pay for roads in that new office park. At Dallas city hall, he asks for help with parking and gets a stick in the eye. Why would you do business with folks that don't want your projects and try and make it more difficult to get anything done?

I don't know I can be wrong, but based off of past projects I don't know that City is necessarily not being generous enough or not helping enough.

For example, the Hunt Tower which LaMi was pretty much against the whole idea but eventually caved in cos' it was better to have Hunt stay downtown than leave.

Another example, the Merc...that deal was considered dead but LaMi and others saved it.

The Wooddall Rogers project which requires efforts from local, state, and the federales as well as private support is going through.

Yea the City does make mistakes time to time, but I wouldn't place the blame squarely on the City and none on Hall.

[gshelton91]

Consider the facts. Last nite the City of Richardson gave him more than $1 million to help pay for roads in that new office park. At Dallas city hall, he asks for help with parking and gets a stick in the eye. Why would you do business with folks that don't want your projects and try and make it more difficult to get anything done?

I would like to hear more facts on this deal -- I hope A. Hunt is looking into what happened --- But just on the face of it i can see why Richardson would need to give money... as for Dallas that may be one of the very best sites for a hi-end condo tower in all of Dallas... I don't want Dallas standing in the way but it should not take too much to get that site developed...

I wish he would take a risk and move forward but with all the hi-end condos going up i can't say i blame him for not pushing forward too fast... I just don't know how much more hi-end the market and handle -- without Dallas doing more to make it self a bigger destination.

[clipper]

It's all about attitudes. In the 'burbs they are waving money in the air begging developers to come do deals. Then you get to Dallas city hall and they leery of developers and question everything they want as if they are about to be robbed. I'm not saying they should have an open purse in Dallas, but the signals they send to commercial builders are often enough to keep the city from landing deals.

[rantanamo]

This is what I thought Leppert would be good at.

[SubUrbane]

Frisco, Telecom Corridor, Napa, just not DTD.....Aarrgghh!!!

Dallas developer hires iconic architect

Craig Hall chooses Frank Gehry to design center at Napa winery


12:00 AM CDT on Friday, July 13, 2007
stevebrown@dallasnews.com

Developer Craig Hall has a track record of including large artworks in his real estate projects.

With Mr. Hall's newest deal, the building itself will be a work of art.

When he's not doing real estate transactions in North Texas, Mr. Hall is often at his family's Hall Winery in California's Napa Valley. And it's there that the latest development project is about to break ground.

Later this month, work will begin on a new visitors' center at the winery designed by renowned architect Frank Gehry.

The 12,000-square-foot glass-roofed building will be topped with undulating wooden basket-weave panels and will house tasting rooms, a shop and areas for hospitality events and offices.

"We expect the building to be completed in late 2009 or possibly early 2010," Mr. Hall said. "It is going to be an extensive long-term construction project.

"In addition to Frank Gehry modern architecture, we will be restoring two historic buildings and moving parts of another historic building," he said. "It is going to be a village of modern and historic working together."

Mr. Hall gives credit for the project to his wife, Kathryn. The Halls purchased the winery in 2003.

Mr. Gehry – who's acclaimed for projects including his Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain, and the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles – also designed a winery in Ontario, Canada.

[tamtagon]

There's gotta be a visual art installation just right for this vacant lot, making the wait less frustrating. When he decides it's time to build on this Arts District property, I hope we'll all be praising Hall for giving Dallas a work-of-art building, with a museum occupying the first few floors.

[psukhu]

This is what I thought Leppert would be good at.

I agree.

I all comes down to finance. Hall, like all business people, move their capital around to projects all over the country in order to get the most return in the future. Someone like Leppert understands this and will make the numbers work for the Arts District site to benefit all the parties involved.

The major parties are the lenders, Hall, his equity partners, the county, the city and DISD. Everybody is looking for revenue in the future based on a capital investment right now.

The problem is that many of the people opposing government investment have never seen an HP-12C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C#The_HP-12C)

[AeroD]

The problem is that many of the people opposing government investment have never seen an HP-12C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C#The_HP-12C)

On principal I do oppose government investment, or as I prefer to call them subsidies, whether its Richardson giving Hall $1 million for road construction or the Texas Enterprise Fund.

It does not make sense to give those who already have money more of it from taxpayers. But that's just me.

I understand that the reality is that cities do offer subsidies to companies or entities to invest or build. And Dallas has to "play the game". And sometimes subsidies are necessary in areas where there is a clear market failure, e.g. downtown.

But at somepoint Dallas needs to stop...I mean once downtown is bustling with activity are we going to continue to dole out aid to people who want to build or relocate downtown, or are we going to let downtown sell itself?

[Kelley USA]

I think eventually Dallas will sell itself... At this time, we have no choice but to give incentives to get things jump started!

[psukhu]

On principal I do oppose government investment, or as I prefer to call them subsidies, whether its Richardson giving Hall $1 million for road construction or the Texas Enterprise Fund.

It does not make sense to give those who already have money more of it from taxpayers. But that's just me.

I understand that the reality is that cities do offer subsidies to companies or entities to invest or build. And Dallas has to "play the game". And sometimes subsidies are necessary in areas where there is a clear market failure, e.g. downtown.

But at somepoint Dallas needs to stop...I mean once downtown is bustling with activity are we going to continue to dole out aid to people who want to build or relocate downtown, or are we going to let downtown sell itself?

A subsidy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy) is not the same as an investment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment) .

You have to consider this from a finance point of view on a project by project basis. Richardson is making a $1 million dollar investment. Their return will come from directly from the increased property tax return and indirectly via the workers who will spend money to generate sales tax.

Richardson will look at the risk, inflation and current interest rates when determining whether or not to invest $1 million.

The city is a stakeholder for any major project in their jurisdiction because of the potential income.

When you make any investment you are giving your money to people who already have money. Who cares. It is all about risk and return.

[AZDallasite]

On principal I do oppose government investment, or as I prefer to call them subsidies, whether its Richardson giving Hall $1 million for road construction or the Texas Enterprise Fund.

It does not make sense to give those who already have money more of it from taxpayers. But that's just me.

I understand that the reality is that cities do offer subsidies to companies or entities to invest or build. And Dallas has to "play the game". And sometimes subsidies are necessary in areas where there is a clear market failure, e.g. downtown.

But at somepoint Dallas needs to stop...I mean once downtown is bustling with activity are we going to continue to dole out aid to people who want to build or relocate downtown, or are we going to let downtown sell itself?

It will never stop. Whether its incentives to construct a new building and infrastructure or entice a company to relocate here, they are and always will be necessary. Look at Chicago, a great city and financial center. When Boeing was looking to move(Dallas was in the hunt but lost), one reason they chose Chicago were the incentives.

You can't view it as giving more money to those who already have plenty. The truth is that both sides win. It has been proven that the return on incentives are real in the property tax roll increases ad the jobs that are created. Just imagine how much additional revenue the city will be collecting from all of these projects built over the last 8 years when those incentives run out and owners must pay their full property taxes. Maybe one day, Dallas will be in a position to significantly lower their residential property taxes b/c of this. If not, then they can at least use this additional revenue to continual improvement of this great city.

[AeroD]

It will never stop. Whether its incentives to construct a new building and infrastructure or entice a company to relocate here, they are and always will be necessary. Look at Chicago, a great city and financial center. When Boeing was looking to move(Dallas was in the hunt but lost), one reason they chose Chicago were the incentives.
.

As far as Boeing is concerned there also other reasons besides incentives as to why the moved to Chicago.

I have heard from some that the reason was because of United. And in the news because Downtown Dallas was boring.

Here is this:

“Candid site location consultants will admit that the only time subsidies can actually tilt the scales is when a company has two equally compelling choices. But that rarely happens. So subsidies are really a crude tool that can only affect a really tiny percentage of deals. All the other times, the subsidies are just wasted windfalls, paying companies to do what they would have done anyway. That means less money for things that really do help create jobs, like skills and infrastructure.” Great American Jobs Scam: Corporate Tax Dodging and the Myth of Job Creation, Greg Leroy)

[AeroD]

A subsidy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy) is not the same as an investment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment) .

You have to consider this from a finance point of view on a project by project basis. Richardson is making a $1 million dollar investment. Their return will come from directly from the increased property tax return and indirectly via the workers who will spend money to generate sales tax.

Richardson will look at the risk, inflation and current interest rates when determining whether or not to invest $1 million.

The city is a stakeholder for any major project in their jurisdiction because of the potential income.

When you make any investment you are giving your money to people who already have money. Who cares. It is all about risk and return.

Based off your own sources you are playing loose with words.

"Subsidy" according to your link: "In economics, a subsidy is a kind of financial government assistance, such as a grant, tax break, or trade barrier, in order to encourage the production or purchase of a good. The term subsidy may also refer to assistance granted by others, such as individuals or non-government institutions, although this is more commonly described as charity."

So Richardson did not make an investment as much as subsidize a project.

Look I can go all day about this, but I know for the time being as I stated earlier in my post before....Dallas has to "play the game" and I understand that.

I am just hoping we get to the point where we don't have to anymore.

And yes, I would like to see 50-story tower where there is nothing right now.

[psukhu]

Based off your own sources you are playing loose with words.

"Subsidy" according to your link: "In economics, a subsidy is a kind of financial government assistance, such as a grant, tax break, or trade barrier, in order to encourage the production or purchase of a good. The term subsidy may also refer to assistance granted by others, such as individuals or non-government institutions, although this is more commonly described as charity."

So Richardson did not make an investment as much as subsidize a project.

Look I can go all day about this, but I know for the time being as I stated earlier in my post before....Dallas has to "play the game" and I understand that.

I am just hoping we get to the point where we don't have to anymore.

And yes, I would like to see 50-story tower where there is nothing right now.

The key difference is a return. The city and county collect income via property tax. If they can make a project happen using incentives, they stand to increase their tax revenue. The difference is the input and the output is the incentive. This is different concept compared to traditional government transfer payments where the government pays out, but gets nothing in return.

The concept is not universally accepted. However, we can drive around DFW and see where it is making things happen while the city profits.

[gshelton91]

/\ I would say that if you look at Downtown Dallas as a product you are trying to get people to buy into then simply offering money to entice businesses is not a sustainable competitive advantage. We have to look for or create a unique competitive advantages that makes people want to buy into downtown because they see a business advantage to doing so.

So how might you do that? One key advantage of any downtown is the close proximity of lots of businesses. If Dallas created a strong "Buy from your downtown Neighbor" professional organization in downtown that might make people want to move. What if Dallas used it's proximity to Baylor to offer downtown employees more convenient doctors visits so employees took less time to see a doctor? What if the city were able to work with downtown buildings to find ways to work together and reduce their operating cost?

I think this is how we get new business downtown... offering just money is a not a sustainable completive advantage because it is too easy to copy.

[xen0blue]

Hate to break it to ya'll, but it looks like the planned/on hold hall arts district tower that was (supposedly) going to be built is dead.

According to Pegasus News (http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2007/jun/13/developer-craig-hall-countersues-city-dallas-over-/),
Mr. Hall rented a space for a parking garage from the city of Dallas and the city promised him they were going to do some maintenance, but didn't, so mr. hall stopped paying rent. When he did that, the City sued him, and now he's counter-suing them, and that's the reason he's killed the hall arts district tower project. Seems to me the city dropped the ball on a seemly menial task with this one.

[cowboyeagle05]

Hate to break it to ya'll, but it looks like the planned/on hold hall arts district tower that was (supposedly) going to be built is dead.

According to Pegasus News (http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2007/jun/13/developer-craig-hall-countersues-city-dallas-over-/),
Mr. Hall rented a space for a parking garage from the city of Dallas and the city promised him they were going to do some maintenance, but didn't, so mr. hall stopped paying rent. When he did that, the City sued him, and now he's counter-suing them, and that's the reason he's killed the hall arts district tower project. Seems to me the city dropped the ball on a seemly menial task with this one.

You know this isn't news right we heard this about a month ago maybe two. Well maybe Pegasus News has confirmed it I don't know maybe they just saw it on this website. They should pay me to watch this site I will tell them when the rumor mill is turning. On this site alone and alot of those happen on this site as well as solid info and excellent photography as well.

[Kelley USA]

^ Yes, this is very old news... It was brought up on this thread probably months ago.

[gshelton91]

With all the big wigs investing tons in the Arts District it looks like if it was something as simple as parking that was stopping this that they would be making calls and getting it taken care of. Their must be a part of this story we are missing.

What ever happened to investigative journalism... DMN reported something on this... then nothing... with all we (Dallas citizens) are investing in Downtown this should be important to all of us. This one site would complete the district... till then it is like having that one weed in an otherwise perfect lawn.

[Kelley USA]

And where is Tom Leppert and the new council on all of this?

[Lionel Hutz]

What ever happened to investigative journalism... DMN reported something on this... then nothing... with all we (Dallas citizens) are investing in Downtown this should be important to all of us. This one site would complete the district... till then it is like having that one weed in an otherwise perfect lawn.
The only person in this town with the heart to dig into this is Jim Schutze, and he's probably too busy with the Trinity River project. It would be expecting too much for somebody at the DMN to investigate this. They don't want to piss off the business community.

[SubUrbane]

Alan Peppard:
A grape weekend getaway

11:20 AM CDT on Tuesday, September 4, 2007

apeppard@dallasnews.com

Just so you know, Dallas financier Craig Hall and his wife, former ambassador to Austria Kathryn Hall, are not mere dabblers in the wine business. Last month, ground was finally broken on the new $100 million Hall Winery in Napa Valley designed by Pritzker Prize-winning architect Frank Gehry (architect behind the Guggenheim Bilbao and LA's Disney Concert Hall).

For the Labor Day weekend, the Halls flew Dallas chef and restaurateur Stephan Pyles to California to cook for their guests. Stephan was the guest chef for their Saturday night Texas Harvest Barbecue as well as a Sunday brunch. The barbecue was hosted at the Halls' 15,000-square-foot home designed by American Airlines Center architect David Schwarz.

Kathryn and Craig enjoy a penthouse view from their Dallas home high above The Mansion on Turtle Creek, but in California they are terrestrial beings. They currently own about 3,400 acres of terra firma in the Napa area.

.................................................. ....
I guess the Napa Valley economy is not in a down cycle:)

New stories about Hall function as the "stress ball" of Dallas Metropolis. Okay, let's all take out our ongoing frustrations regarding the LS Tower site.

Ready, set, go!

[I45Tex]

Well said. Welcome to the forum; nice name.

[Lakewooder]

I think I also saw Hall gave a million for the CoCo Arts Center. Kinda tacky bragging about your $100 million winery then stiffing the Arts District with no donations and that dump.

[ahunt]

The Hall project isn't dead because of the disagreement over the complex parking lease arrangement. The problem was that Hall wanted a tax abatement (like Hunt Oil and 7-11) for his project. However, the city has a policy that to get a tax abatement, you have to bring a company to the city with a minimum number of employees, along with other requirements. Hall wanted to do a hotel/residential development, which doesn't meet the city policy.

We've got numerous residential developments going up in the Arts Districts -- arguably one of the the hottest areas of town -- without tax abatements reducing the dollars going into the public purse. Museum Tower is doing a huge development in the Arts District with no incentives. JPI is also doing a residential project in the Arts District -- again, with no incentives from the City.

I would love to see the Hall project move forward. Right now, it's an eyesore. But the city isn't holding up the process; it's just that the city isn't going to provide tax abatements for a residential project in one of the hottest areas of town when it doesn't meet the minimum standards for tax abatements.

[clipper]

That's the problem with tax abatement deals - both Hunt Consolidated and 7-11 moved their existing employees less than a mile and still got money. If you give money to one developer, the me-toos line up. And who's to say the economic impact of bringing several hundred new high-wealth residents to a condo tower downtown wouldn't be greater than shifting current workers a few blocks.

[DSM]

That's the problem with tax abatement deals - both Hunt Consolidated and 7-11 moved their existing employees less than a mile and still got money. If you give money to one developer, the me-toos line up. And who's to say the economic impact of bringing several hundred new high-wealth residents to a condo tower downtown wouldn't be greater than shifting current workers a few blocks.

Exactly. Companies move where good employees live. This is partly why Fortune 500 companies in Plano and Frisco exist. They move their headquarters where they know they can find educated talent. You get educated yuppies moving into expensive condos by the droves and employers will be lining up to be near them

[SubUrbane]

The Hall project isn't dead because of the disagreement over the complex parking lease arrangement. The problem was that Hall wanted a tax abatement (like Hunt Oil and 7-11) for his project. However, the city has a policy that to get a tax abatement, you have to bring a company to the city with a minimum number of employees, along with other requirements. Hall wanted to do a hotel/residential development, which doesn't meet the city policy.

We've got numerous residential developments going up in the Arts Districts -- arguably one of the the hottest areas of town -- without tax abatements reducing the dollars going into the public purse. Museum Tower is doing a huge development in the Arts District with no incentives. JPI is also doing a residential project in the Arts District -- again, with no incentives from the City.

I would love to see the Hall project move forward. Right now, it's an eyesore. But the city isn't holding up the process; it's just that the city isn't going to provide tax abatements for a residential project in one of the hottest areas of town when it doesn't meet the minimum standards for tax abatements.

Maybe the residential market is hot, but where is the retail? Does it really mean anything toward stimulating a vibrant core if there isn't the retail component. That retail component wouldn't just serve the residents but would provide a magnet for those living outside the CBD, as well as visitors and conventioneers. I go to DTFW and I want to hold my head in shame that DTD is so lacking in pedestrian activity. How long has it been since the really serious moves began to re-vitalize Main St., etc? Ten years or more? Yet, the new retail development is in dribs and drabs. Plus, in the interim, West End has gone into serious decline. I don't want to be so negative. I hear so many talking about the boom in DTD and Victory, but where is the retail?

Maybe I am wrong. Tell me if I am just misguided. I am not out to bash Dallas. I think we should have at least as much action in our downtown as Fort Worth's, and then some.

[FoUTASportscaster]

I go to DTFW and I want to hold my head in shame that DTD is so lacking in pedestrian activity.

Agreed. There are a few reasons that DTFW is better.

First, the '70's & 80's virtually passed DTFW by. There were only a handful of towers built. Towers built in this time are generally the ones that are refered to as fortress towers. They have no ground floor space other than a lobby and are nothing more than a blank wall at the street level. When that happens, unless you are going to work, the building offers nothing for the streetscape. The towers that were built in Fort Worth are great examples: Burnett, City Center Towers, Carter-Burgess, Tandy Center are all just walked by in Fort Worth but they are few in number compared to the other buildings built prior to this era, which are welcoming to the walker.

Meanwhile, in Dallas, there were dozens of buildings built in this time. Lots of blank walls on downtown Dallas's streets, since the building boom was really evident. Fountain Place is the exception, not the rule.

Second, unlike Dallas, Fort Worth didn't bulldoze their history will nilly. While there are surface parking lots in DTFW, the actual walking environment is fairly connected and walkable. DTD can't make that claim. The only area where there is cohesiveness is the Main Street District, but this area suffers from...

Third, DTFW has no tunnels or skywalks of considerable length. The only thing they have is the occasional building connected to a garage. If the office workers want anything, they go and spend their dollars on the street. That leaves the street scene vibrant day and night.

In Dallas, the street is sectioned, leaving the actual street empty and vacant day and night.

Fourth, Dallas didn't have a Bass family step forward and put money in a huge chunk of the area. While they are getting profit out of it, the area is a great example of a walkable, urban environment (except for the surface parking lot in the middle).

DTD is an example that taller doesn't mean denser and urban.

[SubUrbane]

All good points, UTA. However, I just don't get the sense, despite the lip service paid to DTD retail development, that it is a real priority for the city and maybe more importantly, the development community.

How can we (Dallas - public and private sector) change the current situation. Is the city not doing enough in terms of the right incentives, or is it doing too much of the wrong thing - parking requirements, zoning restrictions, permitting hassles, etc? Or, do the developers continue to sell their own city short, when it comes to changing the way we develop our city to one with at least a small slice of street level vibrancy in the center city? Many other cities (in fact most other major cities) have reversed this path. Did they all have urban patrons such as the Basses?

[rantanamo]

Sundance Square in DTFW is nice as far as what's being talked about. The whole of DTFW is NOT. And that's how it needs to start in DTD. One area at a time.

[gshelton91]

The Hall project isn't dead because of the disagreement over the complex parking lease arrangement. The problem was that Hall wanted a tax abatement (like Hunt Oil and 7-11) for his project. However, the city has a policy that to get a tax abatement, you have to bring a company to the city with a minimum number of employees, along with other requirements. Hall wanted to do a hotel/residential development, which doesn't meet the city policy.

We've got numerous residential developments going up in the Arts Districts -- arguably one of the the hottest areas of town -- without tax abatements reducing the dollars going into the public purse. Museum Tower is doing a huge development in the Arts District with no incentives. JPI is also doing a residential project in the Arts District -- again, with no incentives from the City.

I would love to see the Hall project move forward. Right now, it's an eyesore. But the city isn't holding up the process; it's just that the city isn't going to provide tax abatements for a residential project in one of the hottest areas of town when it doesn't meet the minimum standards for tax abatements.


Thanks for clearing this up... Someone from the city needs to call the DMN and have them set the record straight.... their article made the city look bad.

I think all this goes to show that we need to look to other things to encourage/reward business for moving to downtown besides just give them money. For example we could have told Hunt that rather then give him money we would pay to have the Woodall rogers deck park extended in front of his building and that would increase the value of his building considerably and also be good for dallas citizens.

i agree we can't give Hall money for building on prime land.

[Kelley USA]

I don't agree with the City on this one- if you give it to Hunt and 7-11 it should be extended to Hall. What Hall is looking to build far exceeds the Hunt and 7-11 building put together. He may not be moving an existing business into the City right now, but the building itself will attract them later.

So with no options, we're basically stuck looking at this eyesore for another 5 maybe 10 years...

[Mballar]

I don't agree with the City on this one- if you give it to Hunt and 7-11 it should be extended to Hall.
Well, if you feel that strongly about it, then go down to a city council meeting and make a formal request to the council for a change/exception in the policy.

[FoUTASportscaster]

All good points, UTA. However, I just don't get the sense, despite the lip service paid to DTD retail development, that it is a real priority for the city and maybe more importantly, the development community.

How can we (Dallas - public and private sector) change the current situation. Is the city not doing enough in terms of the right incentives, or is it doing too much of the wrong thing - parking requirements, zoning restrictions, permitting hassles, etc? Or, do the developers continue to sell their own city short, when it comes to changing the way we develop our city to one with at least a small slice of street level vibrancy in the center city? Many other cities (in fact most other major cities) have reversed this path. Did they all have urban patrons such as the Basses?

The best thing we can do is change zoning. Fortress office towers were allowed under zoning and have hit the urban scene hard. Now, as is the case with Museum Tower, residential towers are doing the same. Simple zoning would fix a lot of the problem.


I don't agree with the City on this one- if you give it to Hunt and 7-11 it should be extended to Hall. What Hall is looking to build far exceeds the Hunt and 7-11 building put together. He may not be moving an existing business into the City right now, but the building itself will attract them later.

So with no options, we're basically stuck looking at this eyesore for another 5 maybe 10 years...

The question that comes to my mind is when do we stop? When have we given enough public money to get area going without subsidies? There is no asbestos abatement here, no excavation, little site prep. This would be one of the easiest tower construction projects in downtown.

All this seems to me is a developer wanting a handout, on my dime.

Besides, the Arts District is still really disjointed. It is ridden with dilapidated parking lots and fields. It will get better when the current round is done, but still has a way to go.

[tamtagon]

The question that comes to my mind is when do we stop? When have we given enough public money to get area going without subsidies? There is no asbestos abatement here, no excavation, little site prep.

Ya it seems like rennovation and restoration of older structures should have dibbs on the free money.

[clipper]

Hall never formerly asked for any incentives. He quizzed Laura Miller and was told to go smoke a rope per her usual. He then asked about some dedicated parking in the garage he owns and was told no dice. He doesn't need to do that project downtown. In Frisco and elsewhere they are throwing money at him and begging him do deals. Why should he kiss a$$ and grease palms in Dallas to do a building.

[TexasStar]

^ Then he should sell the land to someone who is interested in kissing a$$ and greasing palms.

[tamtagon]

Maybe the new mayor will have a better approach.

[AeroD]

Hall never formerly asked for any incentives. He quizzed Laura Miller and was told to go smoke a rope per her usual. He then asked about some dedicated parking in the garage he owns and was told no dice. He doesn't need to do that project downtown. In Frisco and elsewhere they are throwing money at him and begging him do deals. Why should he kiss a$$ and grease palms in Dallas to do a building.

As I understand it, the Hall tower would be a mixed used building that would have residential component.

As Hunt posted, why offer money for a residential project in area that has residential construction that is in progress that has not received any sort of abatement?

Hall can build office parks in Frisco, but he won't be able to build a mixed-use high rise in Frisco or a residential high-rise in Frisco for that matter.

But I think Hall's ego is too big for him not too build the tower. I am sure every morning when he gets out on his balcony he pictures his own marking on the Dallas skyline. In order for him to see Frisco, he needs to use Google Earth.

[clipper]

His ego is building that Frank Gehry winery in Napa.

[gshelton91]

The problem is the longer he sits the more the project will be worth.. with all the work going on in the arts district it looks like when it is finished that would raise the value of the Hall site and thus his taxes. at some point he will want to either start fishing or cut bait.

[kenc]

Ya it seems like rennovation and restoration of older structures should have dibbs on the free money.

I agree 100% with that statement. Tax abatement $$ should go to preserve historical buildings and NOT to help finance new construction that will be successful anyway. Billingsly's Arts Tower and the Hunt project would have been successful anyway. We threw money at them...stupid. I was happy with the money Dallas gave Forest City to renovate a historic building that would have been torn down otherwise.

[FoUTASportscaster]

On the Hunt Tower, memos were later leaked that when he threatened to move to Irving, it was just an empty to get public money for his own personal, private gain.

[gshelton91]

How about this for an incentive to Hall that is not just a simple cash give away...

The Hall Site in the Arts District has a nice size piece of land on the East side of the site with no building on it.... What if the city offered to place a large public sculpture on the site... something interactive and that would be an attraction in itself. Like the following in Chicago.
http://www.millenniumpark.org/artandarchitecture/cloud_gate.html
http://www.millenniumpark.org/artandarchitecture/crown_fountain.html

The nice thing about this is it would benefit Hall but it would also benefit everyone in the arts district and would provide another site to send tourist to.

Their are plenty of places in downtown we could put this and even better places in the Arts District.... So perhaps we identify development sites along Ross near the Arts District and offer it up to the first developer to start construction on a site that could support the installation in the identified development area. Nothing like a little competition to get things going.

[Kelley USA]

Love the idea, unfortunately we have a City Council that is not that creative!!! But you should send a message to AHunt and see what she thinks.