DTD | Arts District: Hall Arts Tower (Lone Star site) (~50 ST.)

[AZDallasite]

Its not a matter of courage, rather; economics. I want to see as much development d.t./uptown but I want it to be healthy. I don't want to see a bust where we get more abadoned buildings.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Me either.

[rjlevins]

Man this would be just what the Arts District needs too. A big building project to accompany the Arts Plaza. This could also do wonders for the rest of Downtown, if Hall will build soon then maybe it will give others the courage to do so as well. Of course it's not as if Dallas is facing the kind of hang-ups that Ft Worth or Austin are facing right now.

I'm not sure if this is a good sign or not, but most of our (Austin's) projects seem to be moving again. Some of the ones delayed for months are seeing activity again. Though, nothing is official til theyre finished. Austin knows all about unfinished buildings. I would hate to see that happen with this site....again.

[amshepar]

there was an article in Time Magazine recently that the Vegas development bubble has burst (or at least losing air). Citing i believe 4 or 5 of those proposed highrises have been cancelled, including the "Ivana" which is the Ivana Trump building that was to tower over all of vegas.

Certainly Dallas is behind the times as far as highrise residential development, which is why you don't see any of our city's developments being cancelled right now.

[rocker099]

funny that you mentioned the Ivana tower, I was in Vegas last week and took a picture of it because the tower looks like the one proposed in DTFW to me
[img C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\vegas [/img]

[rocker099]

man im an idiot, how do i post pics?? i thought i followed the tutorial but i dont know how to work it

[incrediculous]

there was an article in Time Magazine recently that the Vegas development bubble has burst (or at least losing air). Citing i believe 4 or 5 of those proposed highrises have been cancelled, including the "Ivana" which is the Ivana Trump building that was to tower over all of vegas.

Certainly Dallas is behind the times as far as highrise residential development, which is why you don't see any of our city's developments being cancelled right now.

Vegas hasn't burst. Five planned projects out of scores have been cancelled due to construction costs. There are still more than 30 high-profile projects actually under construction at this moment.

Developments like the Aqua Blue, Icon and Ivana met the chopping block due to construction prices. The growth will continue because the demand is there, it's just you can't build it all at the same time due to limited construction supply.

[TexasStar]

man im an idiot, how do i post pics?? i thought i followed the tutorial but i dont know how to work it

You can't post pictures from your hard drive. You need to have the images hosted on a server. There are lots of places on the web that will do it for free.

[frankchitown]

man im an idiot, how do i post pics?? i thought i followed the tutorial but i dont know how to work it

When posting a reply, you can upload pics directly to ImageShack if you scroll down to the additional options. Click "browse" and find your pic and upload. Then copy and paste the address between the IMG tags.

[CTroyMathis]

Curiosity: Has anyone gone by the location that has the basic model of the tower lately? I am wondering if it has changed or more specifically, if it is even still there.

Any chance someone could take a few more photos of the model if it is still there?




http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/151/hallartstower.jpg

[DFW]

When ever I go to Chase motor bank I go there, its only a block away and I go at least three times a month to check if they made any changes or if there are any new models. I went there last week pulled into the parking lot to see through the window and yes it is still there.

There is a smaller model in the lobby that appears to be a small office or hotel but dont know what this is for.

[CTroyMathis]

Sounds like something that has been said here by many for ages:



July 11, 2006
RE: FRISCO KID

An out-of-towner-though-Dallas-roots FrontBurnervian says:

Warning: Snark Alert!

Now that Mr. Hall is so flush with cash, why doesn't he do something with that disgraceful dump of a construction (Lone Star Tower) site across from Dallas' world class symphony hall. He wins acclaim for his outdoor sculpture in Frisco. Meanwhile, we have something akin to a (very) poor man's Stonehenge in the middle of our city's Arts District.

All Clear: Snark Alert over. We will now return to our regularly scheduled program. I just had to get that off of my chest.

Adam McGill · 01:02 PM

Other stuff:



FRISCO KID RIDES AGAIN

The June issue of DallasCEO (http://www.dallasceomagazine.com/) included a column called "The Frisco Kid" about Frisco developer and investor Craig Hall. The marvelous subhed read, "Risk-taker Craig Hall built an office park in a prairie and continues to zig when others zag." Some of his recent zigging has paid off (http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/15008579.htm). Hall bought RadioShack stock as the tickerprice tumbled. Friday's announcement of Julian Day as new CEO made for a good day indeed for Hall. The DMN notes Hall's done it before with AMR (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-radioshack_11bus.ART.State.Edition1.17a84a7.html). We note, Nice.

Adam McGill · 10:12 AM

[Aeneas515]

Maybe he should build the tallest most ambitious project Dallas has seen.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Maybe he should seel so we can get someone who will do SOMETHING with the site.

[BigD5349]

From today's newspaper...

I can understand a businessman trying to make sound decisions, but a delay of 3-6 years?

His flippant response about sustaining an eyesore is too much. By just sitting on this property for up to 6 years, this guy has single-handedly ensured that the heart of the Arts District will be in a state of construction flux for 5 to 8 to maybe even 10 years.


Arts District delay

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/columnists/all/stories/092206dnbusrecol.2ebd9a7.html

One condo deal that's not going ahead is developer Craig Hall's planned tower in downtown's Arts District.

Mr. Hall owns the derelict construction site at the front door to the symphony hall. It's been a jungle of unfinished concrete and steel since plans for an office skyscraper were canceled in the 1980s bust.

Recently it looked like the stalled development would get going again. Mr. Hall came up with plans for a combination office-condominium tower that would have been almost 50 stories high.

But the veteran Frisco real estate developer says he's decided to mothball the project for three to six years.

"We were pretty far along with our plans," he said, adding that he was discouraged by a lack of support at Dallas City Hall and decided to wait for the next real estate boom cycle, however long that might take.

Mr. Hall's site will soon be in the shadow of construction of the new performing arts center on Flora Street.

"When those new buildings open, we will be an eyesore and we feel bad about that," he said.

[dalatl]

With all due respect to Mr. Hall, why doesn't he just sell his land to somebody who might actually care about doing something about downtown and go back to Frisco. I remember when it was written about 5-6 years ago, where he and his wife were going to live in downtown. Now it seems as if he has effectively abandoned the CITY of Dallas in order to continue to build and deploy his public art in Frisco. I have read articles in national publications, talking about what he has done in Frisco. In Dallas, look at the tremendous investment in cultural venues that we have made and will continue to make. Right in the very middle of all that is that trashy Lone Star site. Where the heck is the city on this?

How can the city countenance this absolute disgrace for what will now be a THIRD DECADE. 3 to 6 years - come on! Somebody ought to get ahunt on the case. This should be a code violation, if it is not. This just frosts me. I am disgusted at the thought of the Hall site languishing for another, what 3, 6, who knows, 10 years? Street life (and retail, restaurants, etc) are so desperately needed in the Arts District. I for one am embarrased, as a Dallasite, to know that when the DCPA's venues open in '09 and we invite critics from around the world to look at what we have done, they will all be forced to encounter this (non-)construction site in the middle of everything. I am sure that many on this board feel the same way. I could go on for pages with this rant. Man oh man!

[BigD5349]

^It sounds like he's negotiating with the city for a tax abatement, kinda blaming this on City Hall. There's no reason for a tax abatement, if that's what he's aiming at. It's a greenfield site already; there's no corporate relocation involved. But he's playing the card anyway.

[EscapeToCity]

RE: Hall's continued mothballing of the Lone Star site...

RIDICULOUS! What a prime location in an area that is finally seeing its day in the sun. I wish Hall would simply sell the site to another developer who will actually do something with it. I have oft heard the argument that the economics might not work for Hall to construct something there but I personally think he's just holding onto it until a genuine downtown office boom when he can 'flip' the land over for a huge profit to some international investor/development firm. I think he has zero intent to ever build on that tract. Hall seems to have no problem pouring cash into his sculpture park/office complex in Frisco...couldn't he find a few $$$ to at least clean up/beautify Lone Star? Shaking my head...

That site remains a constant (and distressing) reminder of the 1980s bust.

[clipper]

The City of Frisco has given Hall and his office tenants millions and millions of dollars in free money during the last decade. I'm sure he wants the City of Dallas to start writing checks too or he'll just stay in the 'burbs and keep working the money machine up there.

[Wineguy2000]

The Halls are great people and they live at 2828 Hood in Turtle Creek they have the 2 story penthouse on top. I am sure if this was the right time he would build it. He sounds like he wants to see if the market will bear another highrise condo after these upteen are finished. I would say it is a smart business move on his part. It would be nice if people could build 100 million dollar buildings knowing before hand that they would be full and generating profits for the owner.

[BigD5349]

^I think you're right that the construction market is slowing down. But in the article, he says he's been discouraged by a lack of support from City Hall, which led me to believe he's hold out for incentives. I think the frustration comes from a site that has been sitting since the late 1980s, in an area that is now booming, and it appears the momentum is passing us by again. We're gonna have to look at that stump of a parking garage for the foreseeable future.

[elmstreetdallas]

If the Halls are such great people, why don't they come up with a temporary, 3-6 year "fix" for the Lone Star site? As it stands today, Hall will be personally responsible for destroying the aesthetics of the Dallas Center for the Performing Arts. Venues that Dallas has patiently waited generations to be built.

Good people?

[Milkman Dan]

No developer would A) buy this site for anything close to what has already been put into it in equity and planning. Hall would be taking a bath if he sold for what others would pay for it and B) most developers capable of handling a project like this are simply not interested. Those of you saying he should simply "sell" in order to get something done on the site aren't grasping the complexity of a project like this. If this is such a home-run deal then why aren't developers lining up to make offers? They aren't, because they know much more about it than all the armchair developers on this site.

Does anyone finally believe that all the new office space in DTD and uptown and the speculative condo development around might actually be rearing its head as a glut of supply? Take your blinders off and breathe deeply. If someone thinks this space is viable for a project at this time, they will make an offer Hall can't reasonably refuse.

[elmstreetdallas]

NEW office space in downtown Dallas? What new office space in downtown Dallas? Are you talking about One Arts Plaza, the Hunt headquarters and the new Corgan Associates home? That's the only new office space being built in downtown Dallas, and all are almost completely spoken for.

[clipper]

Yes. The new buildings are spoken for. But the businesses going there are leaving millions of square feet of empty space when they move up the street.

[elmstreetdallas]

That's true for Hunt and Corgan. Good point.

[Rob]

Aren't all these towers that are about to start on McKinney mostly office? There's office planned in Victory, there's office planned for Two, and maybe Three and Four Arts Plaza as well.

And there is still vacant office space around the CBD.

[Boredkid]

....

[Milkman Dan]

^ Plenty of other large offices are looking at relocating - they just aren't being reported in the news. And elmst, don't forget about Victory, Lincoln office, etc etc. Owners are already preparing for the upcoming cannibalization.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Yes. The new buildings are spoken for. But the businesses going there are leaving millions of square feet of empty space when they move up the street.

Millions? Corgan is currently in a low rise and moving to a low-rise, 7-11 is leaving 400,000 behind and Hunt is leaving 15 floors of a 62 floor building with 1.2 million square feet.

At best it is a million and two of those buildings are signature buildings which will fill up quickly. If some are within the sub-market, we have more problems, but not millions of sq ft of class A empty space.

[St-T]

^In today's DMN there is an from Harwood International announcing that the center is 100% leased. Obviously, they are doing well--maybe St Anne's will break ground soon.

[X Factor]

I think with all of the new space, it will bring new players in to downtown that have not been able to move because the amount of space needed has not been there. This could work out to be good for DT.

[clipper]

The net increase in office leasing occupancy downtown over the past FIVE years has been only about 500,000 square feet. It takes a long time to fill up empty buildings downtown.

[TexasStar]

The Halls are great people and they live at 2828 Hood in Turtle Creek they have the 2 story penthouse on top. I am sure if this was the right time he would build it. He sounds like he wants to see if the market will bear another highrise condo after these upteen are finished. I would say it is a smart business move on his part. It would be nice if people could build 100 million dollar buildings knowing before hand that they would be full and generating profits for the owner.

Fine, wait until the economics are right to develop the property.
But in the meantime, JUST CLEAN IT UP so it doesn't look like a complete disaster!!!!
Is that asking too much after all these years?

[dalatl]

I realize that these projects are complicated. Goodness knows I (and I assume that others on this board) do not have the wherewithall to build such a project. However, if no one is willing to take risks, then nothing will get done. We built the Meyerson almost 20 years ago. Look at Main St. - we have been talking about serious revitalization for about a decade now. At some point it takes a visionary developer to make things haapen. Supply creating its own demand. To me, there are 2 answers: 1) Dallas no longer has visionary leaders (political and economic) to make things happen or 2) We just don't have the demand for urban street life that other cities have. Maybe we have been deluding ourselves.

There are so many dedicated people who have done so much to re-do downtown buildings, create world class arts venues, and the like. What seems to be missing is putting it all together. We will no doubt have world-class architecture in the Arts District. But, will we have shops, coffeehouses, cafes, restaurants - people, to tie everything together and bring life to the streets? Same thing goes for Main Street. So many individual projects have and are being completed. However, it seems the powers that be (business, city) are waiting for the critical mass of people which will somehow lead to the magical appearance of retail. What will we do as a city? Wait another 5-6 years (until the next cycle) and then try to have interesting street life. Bottom line - why does this process in Dallas take such a painfully long time? Look at Houston, Atlanta, Denver, Austin, et al., and see how things can be truly transformed in a relatively few years. After all, it is not like this city started its rehab of downtown just yesterday.

[TexasStar]

^ I agree. I don't understand the waiting game at this point. The time to get this thing rolling is now. All the pieces for a revitalized downtown are poised to fall into place. If not now, then when?

[elmstreetdallas]

We all want it to happen "today." But sometimes I think we underestimate how dire the situation was downtown just 6-8 years ago. We were at a real tipping point, and the CBD just as easily could have gone the way of Detroit. And if it weren't for Hamilton Properties and a firm commitment toward revitalization at City Hall, we would have....

[Mephis Gooseberry]

The art of Hall's deals
He's known for real estate, but his fortune has many facets
09:28 AM CST on Sunday, October 29, 2006
By CHERYL HALL / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/102906dnbusHallProfile.21e27c4.html

FRISCO – Going against the grain has served Craig Hall well.

He buys when others fear to and sells as the masses jump in, becoming a billionaire – twice.

In between, he went bankrupt by following the pack.

"I lost my way in the mid-'80s because I got caught up in the entrepreneurial fervor of Dallas," says the 56-year-old Mr. Hall, sitting in his office at Hall Financial Group headquarters in Frisco. "I started doing things based on the prevailing optimism of the moment. That wasn't my typical approach to life."

More at the link.

[DalMac]

I stumbled upon a really cool AIA exhibit this evening called “Retrospect” in front of the Macy's entrance at North Park. It was a pleasant surprise to see a large model of this tower in a HKS display. It looks the same as the model shown previously on this thread and appeared to be 47-48 floors.

[Tnekster]

I stumbled upon a really cool AIA exhibit this evening called “Retrospect” in front of the Macy's entrance at North Park. It was a pleasant surprise to see a large model of this tower in a HKS display. It looks the same as the model shown previously on this thread and appeared to be 47-48 floors.

Is it time for that show again? I thought it was later in the year.

[Lionel Hutz]

Just saw the exhibit yesterday at North Park. Sure enough, there was a model for Hall's Lone Star tower, or whatever it is called.

Pretty cool exhibit from a bunch of architectural firms.

[Tnekster]

I saw it yesterday too, thought it was good but smaller than years past.

[Kelley USA]

I saw it on Saturday... Some pretty cool stuff!

[tdt5940]

Is this tower be build ?

[tamtagon]

DMN: Developer Craig Hall, Dallas tangle over Arts District project (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/061307dnbuscraighall.36d56aa.html)


12:00 AM CDT on Wednesday, June 13, 2007
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
stevebrown@dallasnews.com

A developer who hoped to build a skyscraper in downtown's Arts District has wound up in a legal tussle with the city of Dallas.

Craig Hall – whose real estate and investment businesses stretch from Texas to California – planned to build a 47-story office and condo tower on top of an underground parking garage already on the site, which is across the street from the Morton H. Meyerson Symphony Center. But Mr. Hall says he killed the deal last year when negotiations with the city stalled.

Not long after that, his company got in a squabble with the city over lease payments on the garage on his property, at Flora and Crockett streets.

In April, the city of Dallas sued Hall Lone Star Associates, seeking more than $220,000 in unpaid rent on the garage.

In a counterclaim in Dallas County District Court, Mr. Hall says the city owes his firm for expenses relating to the maintenance, insurance and operation of the garage. He said he withheld the lease payments after the city refused to reimburse him for those costs.

"This is not a fight we would have chosen," Mr. Hall said. "But I will not sit back and allow myself to be taken advantage of."

The city attorney's office on Tuesday did not return phone calls to talk about the litigation.

Hall Lone Star Associates, a partnership controlled by Mr. Hall, has owned the property containing the 2,000-car underground garage since 1995. The garage was built in the 1980s to serve a 50-story office tower, which was never constructed.

A master lease gave the city of Dallas control of the garage for 200 years. But a sublease with Mr. Hall's firm gives it rights to use more than 400 parking spaces in the garage for a future development.

In 2005, Hall Financial Group began planning what would have been a commercial and residential building to sit on top of the garage. Designed by architect HKS Inc., the tower was to include retail and restaurants on the ground floor and office and condo space above.

"I was ready, willing and able to put more than $200 million into downtown Dallas," Mr. Hall said.

He said with financing already arranged, he planned to start work on the building in late 2006.

But first, Mr. Hall said in his legal filings, he needed to renegotiate his parking sublease with the city to allow a separate section of secured spaces for condo residents.

He also inquired about a tax abatement for the project.

But after months of negotiation, Mr. Hall said, city officials told him they wouldn't agree to any changes in the parking arrangement.

"At that point, I stopped work on the deal," he said.

Real estate brokers say that with construction of the new opera hall and performance center in the Arts District, Mr. Hall's property and others in the area are considered more important.

"They are going up in value – there is no doubt about it," said David Glasscock, executive vice president of Colliers International. "Craig Hall's piece is unique because you have to build high density on it."

Mr. Hall says the legal battle with the city is likely to "go on for years" and will prevent development of the key property.

"In the meantime, nothing is going to get done with the site," he said. "I can't even sell it with this mess going on."

[SubUrbane]

In 2005, Hall Financial Group began planning what would have been a commercial and residential building to sit on top of the garage. Designed by architect HKS Inc., the tower was to include retail and restaurants on the ground floor and office and condo space above.

"I was ready, willing and able to put more than $200 million into downtown Dallas," Mr. Hall said.

Well, memo to soon to be Mayor Leppert (as I would guess). Let's put those business executive bonafides to to the test and get something done. Good grief! What an eyesore! It is absolutely imperative that this plot be developed as a high density development with retail/restaurants. Anything else would be a waste. That place is a dump as it is. Please, City of Dallas, don't screw this deal up! And, if Craig Hall is bluffing, call him on it. The "Club Blue" landlords may be in over their heads. This guy (Hall) has some serious bucks. Make something happen for goodness sake. Don't stand by and let this continue on right at the heart of the Arts District.

[BigD5349]

You've got to be kidding. This is being held up over parking revenue? By developing the site, wouldn't the increased property tax revenue *far exceed* the parking revenue? And what about striving to complete that section of the Arts District, rather than having this HUGE, UGLY Stonehenge-esque hole right in it's midst?

This city must look at the business end of these deals... too often, everything is looked at as a operational budget expense. I just wonder if something else is going on here, as well. Mr. Hall shouldn't be relieved of fulfilling his contractual commitments, either, but for God's sake, that could be worked out around a table in 30 minutes of discussion without court actions being involved.

Am I missing something? On the surface, the stupidity of this seems astounding.

[amshepar]

if you look at the article it says that Mr. Hall wanted an abatemnet, which is fine because without abatements uptown wouldn't exist, but it does not list the amount of the abatement requested. It could be that Mr. Hall's request is for 10 million but the city wants to give him 1 million. I am purely just thrwoing out random numbers but it gives an idea. The city is looking at that extra zero in the 10 million and seeing how much further down the road it will take for them to recoup that money in taxes collected. I'm not saying this is definitely why they are not in agreement, but its probably something along these lines.

Contrary to some people's opinions, even my own sometimes, the people on city council are smart people. I think they've realized they've missed the ball recently in regards to the opportunities lost and are trying to make it up to Dallas residents, but at the same time are not going to make Dallas a charity that just hands money out to those who want it.

[BigD5349]

I'm sure there are other issues that are complicating matters... and that Hall is seeking more than he deserves. But when it devolves into court actions over parking revenues and leases, it indicates a leadership vacuum to me. There's too much to gain for both sides. I guarantee that it will get worked out, but it won't get there through suit and countersuit actions.

[Bizzle]

the people on city council are smart people

Extremely debateable.