DTD | Arts District: Hall Arts Tower (Lone Star site) (~50 ST.)

[frankchitown]

You may be right, but I will always love the 2 spires atop the Sears Tower. I tend to think that the actual facade( porportion of glass to steel/stone/concrete & the color of glass) tends to date buildings.

Those are antennae on the Sears Tower, not spires

[msutton]

the crown atop the Chrystler Building has certainly not dated it. Poorly done elements will date a building: more precisely, they will begin to show their inert shittiness before too long. If they are well designed, they will be beautiful for decades (and hopefully centuries) to follow.

[AZDallasite]

You're right frankchitown, but the point is they're dressed up antennas made to be part of the building

[drumguy8800]

Really.. dating a building.. take the Praetorian building in Dallas, which I consider now to be beautiful prior to being covered up in the 1960s or 70s. (or 50s?) But obviously then, it wasn't considered beautiful: I think archiectural trends go in and out of style.. do you see many classical buildings constructed in the 1960s? No, but you see plent of them being constructed now.. or at least attempts at it. Again, with the Praetorian, we now consider the mask put up on it to be an eyesore -- but in the 1960s, it was fresh, inviting, and new.

[Tnekster]

Heard tonight the Hall may be planning to do an all condo project but the guy was not sure.

[EscapeToCity]

Regarding the Lone Star Site, anything will be better than the horrid concrete supports that have been moldering there since 1986...I can't imagine what some visitors think when they see that junk across from the Meyerson...

...Yet somehow I am skeptical of anything over 30 floors at this site...Craig Hall has been waffling for years...but we shall see...I am simply pessimistic when it comes to the "Arts District" area given all the failed 1980s plans...

[JFire2]

Any news here??

[DFW]

I pulled into the parking lot at HKS 1999 McKinney Ave. last Thursday and through the window I saw at the lobby a model of the Arts District area high-rises and the tower proposed by Hall, this was an incredible design and looked taller then nearby Chase Tower and Trammel Crow Center, I mean at least 750-ft. high. I couldn’t help myself but I went in to get a closer look. I can't explain the looks of this tower but what caught my eye was a garden or trees located half way up the tower and rising from that point was a slender tower, split by a shield and rising higher then tallest part of the building roof. I checked the HKS website but could not find it.
Has anybody seen this or a rendering of this?

[CTroyMathis]

Okay, someone has to get a photo of the model somehow. . .

[BigD5349]

Wow, when I saw this post, I just needed to drop by and check it out.

sorry that pics aren't that good, too much glare.

It looks better in person. This one is exciting. Looks like it will be among the tallest in DTD.

I guess I missed it, is this a proposal or is it a go?

[CTroyMathis]

Thank you very mucho.

[CTroyMathis]

I'm surprised no one has posted this (the model display) before! Has that model not been on display very long?
I've waited a really damn-long time to see what may actually come outta that site.

[X Factor]

I believe its just a proposal. I like that its tall, and its positioned so it doesnt block the view of Chase tower.

[BigD5349]

^It's sort of like a melding of the W and St. Ann's Tower.

It looks kind of like the W, on steroids, without the wing. The square arch on top reminds me of St. Ann's. The trees along the center of the tower also remind me of St. Ann's.

[tamtagon]

Excellent! A tall building like that pumps up the transitory curb appeal of the less tall Billingsley development (new 7-11 HQ). Hall's building also supports the notion of taller buildings on the first block west of Woodall Rogers.

[antoinekhuu]

I just hope that plan will materialize.

[Tnekster]

Look at all those balconies, certainly fits with what I heard about it being all residential. Also helps my long-term vision of east Ross being lined with residential towers. I also heard somewhere that Hall is looking for incentives from the city to start.

[tamtagon]

^I'm still betting whatever Hall builds on that property will be timed to "open" within the six months prior to the opening of the Opera House.

[Tnekster]

^Hmm, interesting point. Then construction would have to begin in what....07?

[incrediculous]

I'm concerned that the towers and new developments going up don't promote a pedestrian-oriented retail environment at street level. We've got the potential for a very asceptic corporatized downtown.

Towers in downtown Vancouver, even in the financial district, have retail on the first floors. My bank shared its base with an Office Depot. My girlfriend's mixed-use tower had a grocery store.

Are we seeing any of that in new downtown or uptown developments?

[Tnekster]

Yes, One Arts Plaza has retail at the base and will have a 7-11 store at street level.

[tamtagon]

I'm concerned that the towers and new developments going up don't promote a pedestrian-oriented retail environment at street level. We've got the potential for a very asceptic corporatized downtown.

Towers in downtown Vancouver, even in the financial district, have retail on the first floors. My bank shared its base with an Office Depot. My girlfriend's mixed-use tower had a grocery store.

Are we seeing any of that in new downtown or uptown developments?

So far, Hunt is the only big development without including ground floor retail. Merchantile, Billingsley/7-11, Victory Park, Citiplace West, and all(?) of the CBD office to residential conversions include retail. Since this tower appears to be residential, it's probablly safe to assume that retail will occupy the store front spaces. However, it this building is entirely devoted to residential use, that will is good. Not every building should be mixed use, though, and there is marketing strength in a building which only caters to those living in it.

[Tnekster]

^I think one of the reasons Hunt does not do it is for security.

[Mephis Gooseberry]

Wow. I hope Hall doesn't back out of this one. Very impressive.

Several residential buildings on all those vacant lots NE of the Plaza of Americas would completely change the retail prospects for Downtown. Maybe the Plaza could become a real mall and entertainment destination opened to late hours, i.e Dallas 9:00 PM.

The orientation of the proposed Hall tower is dictated by the foundation that is already there. Whatever gets built will be long and narrow along the NW-SE axis. To build anything else will require the foundation piers to be completely ripped out and there would be possible structural damage to the private/public parking garage below. No developer would take that risk. Don't be surprised by this orientation.

That model is a great find. Wow. Maybe Dallas is growing up.

[Tnekster]

^Thanks for that info, I was going to ask about the foundation but you already answered my question.

[AZDallasite]

I like how holes in buildings are making their way back.

[Mephis Gooseberry]

As my office's eye candy receptionist said when I asked her if I could borrow the hole punch, she said, "Sure, three holes are better than one." I had to agree with her. :angel:

[CTroyMathis]

el oh el.

[dallasag00]

I still want a spire...

[AZDallasite]

So do I but I don't think this building would be a good candidate. For a spire, you need a tall slender building whereas this proposed building is very long and narrow.

[FoUTASportscaster]

As my office's eye candy receptionist said when I asked her if I could borrow the hole punch, she said, "Sure, three holes are better than one." I had to agree with her. :angel:



Oh Geez, Oh geez, OH GEEZ!

[msutton]

that's an incredible building. Is this for real?

[slfunk]

Like the tower, and does not surprise me that its similar in design to the W. HKS designed the W, and they are known more production then design. I know someone is going to jump all over me on that one. :) Hence 1999 McKinney, complete duplicate floor plans of 2012 Cedar Springs or whatever that address is. Corgan designed that one, and the developer built that one first. You can compare the two and you'll easily see the level of detailing on the outside of the one on Cedar Springs.

I would suspect that if or should say when this project goes through it probably won't start until the parking garage for the Arts District is complete. I suggest this because looking at the height and today's designed standards, I wonder how well the existing parking garage would work for the new building. Who knows, just my intuition speaking.

[Mephis Gooseberry]

The foundation and parking garage for Hall are already complete. There is no reason to wait for the Opera/Theatre garage to be built. They are separate structures. If the plans are to connect the two garages (Symphony Center / Performing Arts Center) into one giant underground, there is basically only a slurry wall that has to be removed.

I wish I still had my old pictures of when they dug the Meyerson/Cathedral/Lone Star hole. The entire three block structure was dug at once. There was only a five foot gap behind the north cathedral wall and a ~hundred foot drop into the bowels of the earth. It was cool watching the welders down there working at night. The Cathedral looked like a good thunderstorm would wash it into the hole.

[texman]

I cant imagine the price for a top floor condo. How many floors would this be? 65, 70?

[slfunk]

I'm just suspecting the ADA parking issues that we have to accomodate today which were pretty much non-existant when the foundation and parking garage were built. Expect number of parking spaces. I don't know. Like I said I am just suspecting. Knowing the way many of these developers work hand in hand, it wouldn't surprise me if they had to demo the existing Arts parking garage to build new and in turn have to wait for the new Arts Center parking garage to be built before starting on the Lone Star site.

It depends how much they want to spend, and if the current garage/foundation there will accomodate current standards. But then that could have been incorporated into the new design or they may be starting from scratch on that site. JUST A THEORY.

Take Republic Center for example. When they reworked the building they had to add some parking that was not already in the complex. Don't know when this occured if it was sometime ago or when they renovated back in the late 90's. Some of the parking garage on the second and third levels of the parking garage facing the DART rail was clearly former office space. You can see old light switch locations and where cut outs in the structure was to accomodate HVAC systems, and it defiently was not designed as a garage but adapted for new requirements.

[Mephis Gooseberry]

The original Lone Star project was two office towers with some retail at the bottom. I'm not up to date on Dallas parking construction code but I bet the parking density for office is much higher than what is needed for residential. If more space is needed for handicap parking, they could just dedicate more spaces to it or get a city variance.

With a wink and a reach around, the city could count the parking garage as a legacy '80s structure that does not have to meet modern requirements. You basically only have to bring your legacy building up to modern standards if you install new permanent walls, full height partitions or alter the main structure and layout, basically anything that would require a permit. The lawyers could argue that the parking garage is not being altered and is not Halls responsibility.

If possible, I plan to go to the Fire Marshal's office this week to get a copy of the updated Dallas charter amendments to UFC 2000. I wonder if they would know.

The Meyerson seems to comply fairly well with ADA i.e the garage lobby and elevator.

[AZDallasite]

I can't stop thinking about this. I just hope this proposal comes to fruition.

[DFW]

Oh, by the way when I was there last Thursday to view the model in the lobby and then as I was coming out at the same time with another person; I ask this person if this is the Hall Tower and he said yes, it is the original concept but can't talk more about it. Obviously they are keeping it quiet and will not elaborate about it, maybe due to a design competition.

[slfunk]

It was only an idea to ponder on. I can assure that the parking for a residential building is less then office. I work on this kind of stuff all the time. If you want to know for sure as to parking requirements, Dallas is under the 2000 or 2001 IBC and you can look at the subdistrict for the Arts District. There you should get a good idea. I was just pondering around. But I did think of this, will the parking garage be able to be used during construction of the new tower. If not would they have to wait until the new Arts District parking garage to be built to relieve the parking needed in this area?

[Mephis Gooseberry]

Building Construction Codes

2000 International Building Code with Dallas Amendments *
2000 International Mechanical Code with Dallas Amendments *
2000 International Plumbing Code with Dallas Amendments *
2002 National Electrical Code with Dallas Amendments *
2000 International Fire Code with Dallas Amendments *
From city of dallas website

2000 International Energy Code with 2001 Amendments
2000 International Residential Code with Dallas Amendments
2003 International Existing Building Code with Dallas Amendments *
Dallas Existing Building Code Introduction
Ordinance amending Chapter 52 "Administrative Procedures for the Construction Codes" of the Dallas City Code

These recently adopted codes and the amendments can be purchased on-line on International Code Council Web site and will soon be available for purchase (approximately 1 August 2004) at the Oak Cliff Municipal Center, 320 E. Jefferson Blvd. Room 118, Dallas, TX 75203.



* Effective Date of July 1, 2004

[Mephis Gooseberry]

Is the current Lone Star garage in use?

C. New Construction Building Code versus Existing Building Code.
In order to be considered an existing building, a structure must have been
previously occupied or used for its intended purpose. In addition to this, a
building or structure erected prior to the date of adoption of the current Dallas
Building Code must have been completed for a period of not less than one year.
Otherwise, the building will be governed by the Dallas Building Code.

[Mephis Gooseberry]

There is a section that states that if the building usage has changed, current code applies.

[WestTexan]

I can't stop thinking about this. I just hope this proposal comes to fruition.

Yea, all Dallas needs is another 1 square feet DT and things will really be booming. Mark my word, this deal won't happen.

[Kelley USA]

I did my best to count the floors on the model- and actually came up with 47 which is the same number that has already been posted. Perhaps the angle makes it look taller than it really is- but does appear to be 47 stories...

[Lionel Hutz]

Mark my word, this deal won't happen.
Thanks a lot

http://cmunki.net/v-web/gallery/albums/junkdrawer/debbiedowner.jpg

:D

That design looks fantastic. Would love to see it happen.

[Tnekster]

Yea, all Dallas needs is another 1 square feet DT and things will really be booming. Mark my word, this deal won't happen.

OK, I am sure someone will remember.

[texman]

I'm lost. Why wouldnt it happen?

[barrycb]

Yea, all Dallas needs is another 1 square feet DT and things will really be booming. Mark my word, this deal won't happen.

It's obvious that the building is at least 2/3 residential, and there is room for another 300K sq. ft. of class AA office space in downtown.

[Lakewooder]

Maybe Hall's wife plans to run for mayor again...