DTD | Arts District: Hall Arts Tower (Lone Star site) (~50 ST.)

[jovangonzales]

2012? I guess the project will be finished before the end of the world. ;)

No, no, given the track record thus far, it'll only be STARTED before the end of the world, haha. Long enough to get some nice pictures of the tower cranes. :woot:

[sdub]

Wow. The model really just sold me on liking these. I even think the taller of the two towers should be white with clear glass and have the accents be blue. You know, basically just like the model. It's so clean looking to me. Maybe in my lifetime ... sigh.

The energy code is making glass that clear virtually impossible to do. I guess models don't have to pass, though.

[NThomas]

The energy code is making glass that clear virtually impossible to do. I guess models don't have to pass, though.
That looked more like a study model then a presentation model. I highly doubt both towers (if they're even built) have clear glass. It's not energy effient when you have a large portion of the office tower facing Southwest. Of course, Trammell Crow Center might provide some shade but only a few months a year for a couple hours a day during the winter, not the biggest season to worry about getting out of the way of the sun.

Some of the renderings look like both buildings have gray glass similar to how the Azure has tinted blue glass.

[jovangonzales]

The energy code is making glass that clear virtually impossible to do. I guess models don't have to pass, though.

Yeah, yeah, I was just saying it out of wishful thinking. They could always use a light green or gold? That would also look equally awesome, IMHO. I don't want grey though.

...Maybe they could make it clear and have the back of the glass UV coated and then make it a giant transparent-ish solar panel or water heater!? That's just the wishful thinking again though, haha. Wait, didn't they make a giant glass casing around a building in Dubai? And it's clear and able to keep the building COOLER despite the whole building being in a glass bubble? So maybe this building can adopt a similar strategy and keep the giant glass panel!

Edit: It's the Yas Hotel (http://www.theyashotel.com/) in Abu Dhabi (where else would do such a thing?). It's even sunnier there than here, so if they can ... ... ... we can (with the help of oil sheiklets).

[sdub]

You could do clear on the outside if it's a double-skinned system. I think the presentation model is even more deceptive because you'll never get that level of contrast with the blue panels.

[Kelley USA]

With the news of Museum Tower, I wanted to get an update on Hall Arts Tower. I looked on the HKS website and it looks like the renderings have changed yet again:

http://hks.hksinc.com/#/about-hks/portfolio/on-the-boards?rgb=w&ssp=true&gallery=53&id=17

Or is it just me?

[dfwcre8tive]

With the news of Museum Tower, I wanted to get an update on Hall Arts Tower. I looked on the HKS website and it looks like the renderings have changed yet again:

http://hks.hksinc.com/#/about-hks/portfolio/on-the-boards?rgb=w&ssp=true&gallery=53&id=17

Or is it just me?

You're right, it does look like it has changed (and become taller?).

[AeroD]

With the news of Museum Tower, I wanted to get an update on Hall Arts Tower. I looked on the HKS website and it looks like the renderings have changed yet again:

http://hks.hksinc.com/#/about-hks/portfolio/on-the-boards?rgb=w&ssp=true&gallery=53&id=17

Or is it just me?

It looks like it has changed. Or it could be a different angle. Off topic, I wonder if the "NorthPark Center" is for Dallas' NorthPark.

[eirin]

It is...if you click on the link that says 'information' it talks about the details and says it's supposed to be a boutique hotel.

[NThomas]

I know the 1st rendering only had one wide angle shot, but the information tab also mentioned something about it it being one of three towers? Maybe it'll be the tallest with two Victory Park Plaza size buildings?

[NTexUnited]

Wow, that rendering looks 40+ stories, with a noticeable separation between lower and upper floors. Is it planned to be a office/condo, or hotel/condo? Perhaps office/hotel?

[lakewoodhobo]

From the first rendering, it looks like it would nicely complement the Federal Reserve building.

[cowboyeagle05]

That's the design from like 8 years ago somewhere on this thread someone took a photo of the model when it was first discovered in some lobby in Dallas where Hall I think had offices near the Arts District. I don't believe its the current planned design though. That was the design when he wanted to build one mixed use tower on the LoneStar site I believe now he wants to do something with more than one tower with varying heights.


UPDATE: Found evidence from 2006so it may not be as old as I thought but I still think he is steering away from 40 story towers http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showpost.php?p=131993&postcount=106


http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6725/greengrasstroyedit1jpgversion0.jpg

His most up to date concept renderings are more like this:
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4827/picture1pv7.th.png (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1pv7.png)

[vman]

Wow, that rendering looks 40+ stories, with a noticeable separation between lower and upper floors. Is it planned to be a office/condo, or hotel/condo? Perhaps office/hotel?
Although I think the last thing downtown needs is another hotel, a boutique hotel in the Arts District is a no-brainer.

[lakewoodhobo]

Although I think the last thing downtown needs is another hotel, a boutique hotel in the Arts District is a no-brainer.

I don't know about that. Hotel Zaza, the Westin, the Fairmont and the Sheraton are all within walking distance to the arts district.

[ksig121]

I don't know about that. Hotel Zaza, the Westin, the Fairmont and the Sheraton are all within walking distance to the arts district.

They are, but they don't feel connected to the district at all. ZsaZsa has the Woodall Rogers bridge, The Fairmont has the back side of the DMA facing it and the Sheraton has a virtual gauntlet of intersections and weird street configurations between it and the district.

[vman]

I don't know about that. Hotel Zaza, the Westin, the Fairmont and the Sheraton are all within walking distance to the arts district.
Yeah, what Ksig121 said!! He just beat me to it. Those hotels don't feel like they're part of the Arts District at all and contribute nothing to it. A small boutique hotel, tied to a retail, office, or condo development that is actually part of the district would be a huge leap toward turning the area into a true 24/hr neighborhood.

[Kelley USA]

News from DBJ:

http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2010/07/26/story3.html?b=1280116800^3685641

[eirin]

He's raising it for the office park in Richardson, of course.

[clipper]

No, he's out trying to buy distressed properties and bad loans. That's how you make money in the current environment, not building something when you can buy for half the price.

[tamtagon]

No, he's out trying to buy distressed properties and bad loans. That's how you make money in the current environment, not building something when you can buy for half the price.

He's done this before, and in a Steve Brown article from a while back said he would do it again. He's smart and will probably deposit at least another billion dollars thanks to the run-up and fall-down.

I'm still not sure why the city caved in to Hall's negotiating tactics:


http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2010/07/26/story3.html?b=1280116800^3685641

Under an agreement with the city, Hall stands to receive as much as $9 million in incentive money if development starts on the site by the end of 2012 and the project is ready for occupancy by the end of 2015

... but the least the city could have done is get Hall to agree to a significant public art installation. Maybe there was no need for the public art preclusion, Hall is already known for displaying his art collection within his real estate developments.

[Lakewooder]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2010/07/as_projects_begin_to_take_root.php

As Projects Begin to Take Root in Arts District, Conjecture About Craig Hall's Stalled Tower

By Robert Wilonsky, Fri., Jul. 23 2010 @ 9:39AM Comments (1) Categories: Development, Real Estate

Is this long-planned Arts District tower the project for which Craig Hall's looking to raise $100 mil?
​It's been 17 months since the city settled its legal dispute with developer Craig Hall over lease payments related to the Arts District parking garage on Ross Avenue -- and then agreed to dole out up to $9 million from the Downtown Connection TIF if he ever got 'round to building that 24-years-in-the-making, $120-mil mixed-use tower on the property. But since then, silence. In the meantime, Brook Partners and the Dallas Police & Fire Pension System partnered up on the ground-broken Museum Tower, while just this week Spire Realty debuted its plans for a six-building office-hotel-retail-parking complex on 12 acres in the Arts District.

But as the Dallas Business Journal notes this morning, Hall, through several different ventures, is looking to raise $100 million, as revealed in filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, like this one under the Hall Funding LLC moniker.

Hall won't say what he's planning on doing with the dough, and so the DBJ speculates: Is Hall finally going to build that Arts District tower, or is this related to a planned office-park project in Richardson?

No one's heard nothin' about either, but do keep in mind: The city's agreement with Hall is dependent upon the tower opening its doors by no later than 2015. And, as John Amend tells the DBJ, the Arts District is hot: "I really think that's going to be the new center of downtown."

[slfunk]

I wouldn't be surprised to hear of Hall moving on one of the towers. Developers many times move on projects much like retail and resturants do in opening stores. They like to develop around eachother. It sparks foot traffic / activity / attention to the area.

[tamtagon]

I certainly hope Hall goes with a different building design. The most recent renderings show a pair of very contemporary skinny towers. This site needs something one of a kind. I'd like to see some sort of uber-green-movement vertical farm-ish skyscraper that makes as much of an impression, stands outs, as much as Fountain Place. The skinny two tower deal is pretty mundane if you ask me.

[Kelley USA]

I wonder what the cost difference would be in building 1 large tower instead of 2 smaller ones? Also, we need to remember that Hall indicated he would not start building until he had at least 200,000sf leased (just like Spire).

[psukhu]

^
I'm guessing it is cheaper to get the same square footage in two structures instead of one considering the land is cheap.

To developers, this is just a product. They will go with what yields the highest profit, which means trying to get the lowest possible construction costs.

[dfwcre8tive]

I wonder what the cost difference would be in building 1 large tower instead of 2 smaller ones? Also, we need to remember that Hall indicated he would not start building until he had at least 200,000sf leased (just like Spire).

The current podium and elevator shafts were poured for Phase 1 (fronting Crockett Street). The area along Leonard Street was meant for Phase 2 but never started. Wouldn't it be cheaper to use the current foundation layout than try to change the base of the structure(s)? Build the office tower in the same proportions as the Lone Star Phase 1 tower, and then build a second tower on any of the remaining area (with no current foundation to limit height/size).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3018/3036523014_fa76469a9b_z.jpg

MAP FOR REFERENCE (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dallas+map&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Dallas,+Texas&gl=us&ei=7PtOTJfwJI6TnQfZjeTZBw&ved=0CCUQ8gEwAA&ll=32.789385,-96.796551&spn=0.001838,0.004506&t=h&z=19)

[mjblazin]

What are the implications of building more office towers around the Arts District? I noted the one comment about making it the new downtown?
How does that work for the city since our public investments of rail and infrastructure including our publicly owned hotel are concentrated at the other end of town?
What if, by building the AD and the Woodall Park, we slide downtown towards Uptown, not expand it?

[AeroD]

What are the implications of building more office towers around the Arts District? I noted the one comment about making it the new downtown?
How does that work for the city since our public investments of rail and infrastructure including our publicly owned hotel are concentrated at the other end of town?
What if, by building the AD and the Woodall Park, we slide downtown towards Uptown, not expand it?

Isn't the Arts District a public investment? Isn't the Woodall Rogers Park a public investment?

[lakewoodhobo]

What are the implications of building more office towers around the Arts District? I noted the one comment about making it the new downtown?

I think the quote was "it could be the new center of downtown". Doubt he meant it in a literal sense as the center of downtown will always be Main Street. And you can argue that Uptown is moving downtown instead of the other way around. Museum Tower is the perfect example of this (a luxury high rise that would otherwise go near the Ritz has crossed Woodall Rodgers).

[dfwcre8tive]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/4862282166_2222bfc47e_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/4861661869_90a4e36d64_b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfwcre8tive/sets/72157624532015695/

[ladarron]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfwcre8tive/sets/72157624532015695/
Are they building the tower?

[dfwcre8tive]

Are they building the tower?

No, just thought I'd throw in a shot of the site that's awaiting development.

[ladarron]

No, just thought I'd throw in a shot of the site that's awaiting development.
Thanks.

[tamtagon]

Looks like no one is taking care of the trees on this property.

[elmstreetdallas]

Looks like no one is taking care of the trees on this property.

And that surprises you?

It's Hall we're talking about here....

[vman]

Those pictures really show how beautfiul the Arts District is shaping up to be. They also illustrate, imo, one of the Districts's major flaws...There are too many streets chopping up the district and separating the venues. I so wish Dallas had the balls to take those streets out of there!!!

[gchrisbailey]

Those pictures really show how beautfiul the Arts District is shaping up to be. They also illustrate, imo, one of the Districts's major flaws...There are too many streets chopping up the district and separating the venues. I so wish Dallas had the balls to take those streets out of there!!!

A few well-placed, well-designed artistic pedestrian bridges could do the job too...would make a nice, unique feature to the Arts District...

[gchrisbailey]

No, just thought I'd throw in a shot of the site that's awaiting development.

I thought there was some talk of getting the Hall Arts Tower started soon...

[mjblazin]

A few well-placed, well-designed artistic pedestrian bridges could do the job too...would make a nice, unique feature to the Arts District...

A bridge over what street? Flora? Ross? Drive down Ross after Mass at the cathedral and see how many people use crosswalks where a bridge might go. They don't use them.

[dfwcre8tive]

I think a redesigned Ross Avenue would be better, with wide sidewalks and large crosswalks.

[carousel]

Looks like no one is taking care of the trees on this property.

I've noticed that they have been not fairing so well. Sad.

[msutton]

the streets should absolutely be removed, and some actually usable greenspace put in -- with benches, significant shade, and water features that don't make you snore. The landscaping of the Arts District is abysmal, and really an insult to the great architecture and performing arts groups that it should be supporting.

[TexasVines]

the city should buy that hall tower slab and put homeless in the lower floors and food trucks on the top floors

that would be so mixed use, trendy, and trashy/cool :Banana09: :not_ripe:

[AeroD]

Maybe the trees could be cared for better, while I am not an arborist, could it be also that those trees are not the kind you want to plant in the North Texas?

While I am at, the Bradford Pear is an awful tree. Sure it has some pretty moments, but they smell when they blossom and their branches break easily.

[elmstreetdallas]

the streets should absolutely be removed, and some actually usable greenspace put in -- with benches, significant shade, and water features that don't make you snore. The landscaping of the Arts District is abysmal, and really an insult to the great architecture and performing arts groups that it should be supporting.

And to think the Sammons family gave $10 million for the "park." I'd love to know what their money was actually used for, because it certainly wasn't used for landscaping, etc.

[dfwcre8tive]

And to think the Sammons family gave $10 million for the "park." I'd love to know what their money was actually used for, because it certainly wasn't used for landscaping, etc.

I heard that benches and street furniture for the Sammons Park were "Phase II". Obviously aren't in any hurry to make it a better experience.

[Kelley USA]

It makes me sick every time I see the landscaping! Just pathetic, and the douche that designed it needs to quite his day job... I would have liked to have seen some sort of modern water feature too (a kick ace fountain would have been good). The so called "water feature" that's there now is worthless! We have world class buildings surrounded by crap landscaping!

I actually hope that Hall Arts Tower (if ever built) can help distract the eye from some of this.

[gshelton91]

Well i think the ideas was to have lots of lawn space... if so then that limits what can be done with landscaping...

I have heard that they want to build a unified box office somewhere in the district that folks and drive by and pic up tickets easily.

[barrycb]

I have heard that they want to build a unified box office somewhere in the district that folks and drive by and pic up tickets easily.

Sounds like a great retail opportunity for the Hall Arts tower...